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So, cotton is cotton, right?

I've seen similar threads across multiple forums asking if you can use cotton balls or rolls of cotton instead of the samurai farmed Japanese organic cotton from Ninja groves.
Lots of the threads seem to state that normal cotton contains bleaching agents. H2O2 mainly which isn't really a concern as hydrogen peroxide breaks down to water and oxygen over (fairly rapid amounts of) time, causing many a stored and unvented container to explode in storage (which happened in my school over midterm and apparently glass shards from the bottle were stuck in the walls) but to cut a long story short I've ordered a box mod (An Aegis X and an RTA (Zeus) as well as some pre-wound coils to see what works and what doesn't) but I want to see what people's opinions on using normal cotton are.
I have no experience myself however most sites which try to give their 'opinion' are also trying to sell their magical organic Japanese cotton that has been cut with only the finest katana from edo period Japan and then preserved in a time capsule until now.
The RTA I bought does come with some of this cotton so I can make my own opinion as to how good it is compared to normal cotton but I would like the opinions of people who have actually used both as that way if there is a huge difference I can maybe order more in.

As you can probably tell I'm biased against special cotton mainly because it costs a fair bit more than normal cotton and to me that makes little sense if over the counter cotton that is cheaper should be treated less (of course economy of scale comes into this, if you're making thousands of tons of treated cotton and tens of tons of the untreated sort prices would reflect that) but rarely you pay less for more.

If I could get a some user explanations on why wicking material matters that would be great. It was bottom of my list and getting an RTA as well as a box and 18650 cells can be fairly expensive but it eliminates the 'razor and blades' model of cheaper vapes and I shave with a straight razor so I don't really like the "you pay less but have to pay a large amount every week for more coils" when I can just twist some wire around a jig.

Tldr
Does cotton brand/type really make a difference
 

5150sick

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Regular cotton works fine.
Your best bet would be to avoid the expensive brand name cottons because you may end up liking them.
Once you switch to the good stuff it's harder to go back to regular cotton.

:wave: also Welcome to the forum.
 
Regular cotton works fine.
Your best bet would be to avoid the expensive brand name cottons because you may end up liking them.
Once you switch to the good stuff it's harder to go back to regular cotton.

:wave: also Welcome to the forum.
Thanks.
I'll definitely see if I can try the more expensive cotton if they're as good as you say they are. I'll get two samples with my RTA anyway so I can make somewhat of a comparison. Currently I just hate the fact that I need to buy parts that are expensive (coils which have probably been CNC machined or at least turned on a lathe the drilled) as they screw into a proprietary Smok fitting and knocking one used coil and cotton out of the fitting shows that the compactnessand complexoty of them would make rebuilding difficult and expensive so I decided to go for an RTA as it makes much more sense to replace the thing which keeps burning out rather than the thing which keeps burning out as well as a piece of machined steel which just holds the coil.
I can see how it works from a consumer standpoint but as I've always built stuff since I was a kid I don't see why I should be screwing in a new coil and wick which is built into a piece of steel when I can just build the coil and wick.

I really hate that burned taste however so if regular cotton does that I guess I'll change to a better type of cotton or another material like Rayon, though I hear it doesn't wick as well as cotton so it is somewhat of a compromise. Long life and low upkeep costs are what I'm aiming at as well as the ability to change things to suit me.
 

5150sick

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Yes, You made a very good move by getting an RTA.
Smok tanks even with the RBA (rebuildable) attachment aren't good at all for flavor.
They are fine if you are looking to have a flavorless cloud machine. lol
The RTA will allow you to perfect everything. From coil height to airflow control.
I would suggest watching a YouTube wicking tutorial on the RTA you choose.
Some reviewers go into great detail about the coil building process, the wicking process, and filling the tank.
 

Carambrda

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I use Cotton Bacon 2.0 because it's what works best for me. In fact rayon doesn't work for me at all. Cotton Bacon 2.0 is very widely available and relatively inexpensive, but everyone has their own take on which is better, and that also includes the wicking technique, or style. Some prefer to do the Scottish Roll, whereas others have discovered a different style that holds the same amount of juice and that wicks the juice perfectly the same, yet it requires less effort so they have completely debunked (video below) that old myth that someone dubbed Scottish Roll and that used to be a popular hype a long time ago until everyone abandoned it except only those who don't like how reality looks like:


Personally, I, rub (or quasi scrub, more like) my piece of Cotton Bacon 2.0 between my fingertips repeatedly in one direction so that it stretches causing its length to grow, slowly, by about half an inch. Doing this gets rid of the unevenness in thickness/density by rubbing the parts [that I can feel are still too thick/dense] more numerous times until it feels like the cotton fibers are aligned evenly almost as much as possible. Next, I roll it between the palms of my (clean) hands while I apply mild pressure in such a careful manner that I make perfectly sure that I am not squashing it or anything like that. I rub it a few times in the same direction again after that.

The end result is a stick of cotton that I can pull into my coils without breaking it in half, there's no pointy fluffs sticking out anywhere, it doesn't get roughed up in the process, it just slides in there nice and smooth, tightly enough but not too tight. I vape at 0.25 ohms on a series mech, which translates to 229 watts when my pair of Samsung 20S batteries are fully charged. I vape the kind of (high VG) juices that contain a fuck ton of sweetener so you would expect coils to gunk up in no time (what they call "coil killers"). Below is a pic of my coil build, 29/36 Ni80 aliens at 7 wraps 3mm, dual coil = 0.25 ohms in my (black) ultem Carnage 1.5 RDA that I am using on my Side Piece Slim Murdered Out (upgraded with the pure solid silver firing cup). It takes almost 2 whole weeks of vaping daily before I need to rewick. The coils also last like what appears to be essentially forever.

29g aliens.jpg
 

SnapDragon NY

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In fact rayon doesn't work for me at all
I never had any luck with rayon either- my worst dry hits have all happened with rayon.
I have tried all kinds of cotton like muji, Cotton Bacon and others but still like and use Walgreens Organic cotton balls- these work great for me, bag has lasted for 4 years, flavor is good and these are easy to get-
 

Bigrick

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I use the cotton made for building out of pure convience and ease of use. Snip, snip, thread, trim, fluff, stuff, and done. Regular cotton needs to be manipulated in to a usable shape or form before use. Now want a superior cotton that is a true pain in the ass to use? Drago, I love the stuff but man what a bitch to use. But imo it is superior vape cotton.
 

nadalama

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I like Cotton Bacon V2. Have tried some other brands, some rayon, and some Ko Gen Doh. Like CB2 the best. Works well in coils or mesh, also.

Note that after building, wicking, and saturating with e-liquid, rayon shrinks but cotton expands. If Snap got dry hits using rayon, and she was using a mesh RTA, I can totally see that happening.
 

Wb80

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Yes cotton is cotton. Until you experience a perfec
I like Cotton Bacon V2. Have tried some other brands, some rayon, and some Ko Gen Doh. Like CB2 the best. Works well in coils or mesh, also.

Note that after building, wicking, and saturating with e-liquid, rayon shrinks but cotton expands. If Snap got dry hits using rayon, and she was using a mesh RTA, I can totally see that happening.
Mesh n rayon don't work well at all. Was s disaster every time i tried it. Now mesh decks n cotton r amazing.
I run rayon in my rdas n cotton in most of my rtas
 

Vape Fan

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Cotton Bacon Prime is what I mostly use and seem to find a deal on it when I need it. <5
 

MyMagicMist

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I like my cheap Muji cotton from Fast Tech. Currently they're selling a 50 pack for about $5. I bought a huge 180 pack for about $7 several years ago. Have sent some to others, still got a life time supply.

Don't understand where all the hype is coming from, or the high prices. Muji is dirt cheap. Nothing really special about it other than being claimed it's organic. I don't want to use bleached cotton. That's my preference.
 

Nailz

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I use to use cotton bacon, but then heard of this '13 feet' Japanese cotton on amazon, it's cheap and works just as well as cotton bacon, been using it for a few years and works great for me :)
 

Carambrda

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The reason why I don't like to use pads is because of what's shown from 2:27 through 3:46 in the video below:


As for Cotton Bacon Prime, for a while I used to like it better than Cotton Bacon 2.0 until I switched back to the latter. The former can start to develop an undertaste that's reminiscent of some sort of wood pulp like bamboo or something like that, and, for vaping at high wattages around 100 watts or higher with 2.5mm coils (especially if the length of the coils is more than double their diameter size) it tends to easily burn the wicks in half, which never happens with the latter if I prepare my cotton like how Yosh explained it in the video above.

Another important trick IME is how to get rid of the dust that got stuck between the fresh cotton fibers and that irritates my throat for half an hour until the wicks are broken in properly─it feels almost as if a fluff of cotton is stuck inside my throat. After you wick it up, it's all about how you juice it up, which I'll try to explain next.

Putting the juice always on top of the coils instead of also putting it on top of the wicks is what makes a world of difference IME. Also IME, gently pulsing the fire button helps to prevent juice from leaking onto the tails of the wicks (and all over your mod such a way that you can decide to become a reviewer on YouTube whose only real talent is to create a total mess...) when the tails are still dry. Let nature do its job. The juice will get sucked from the coil into the tails of the wicks. Be patient. You'll know that little bit of extra patience is what drives out the air─that would otherwise get trapped between the cotton fibers─from the middle toward the outside, and you'll thank yourself for it. Also, continue pulsing it whilst the juicing it up is still progressing, but continue pulsing it less gently with every subsequent step of the way. But don't hold the fire button down too long, either.

If you follow this kind of advice and you're not afraid to walk that extra mile of experimenting with it and comparing various different wicking techniques, then you might be in for a pleasant surprise. If you get it right (which may take some practice at first, I'll admit, but that's only a small sacrifice to make...), the time it takes for the Cotton Bacon 2.0 to "break in" will be greatly reduced, to the point where it will be pretty much on par with Cotton Bacon Prime in this regard. I.e., the first 4-5 hits might still taste/feel a bit recessed, but never much more than that. Cotton Bacon Prime has a tendency IME to start to quickly collapse after I've been vaping for several days so then, it feels all "squishy-and-mush" when I pull it out of my coils. Whereas Cotton Bacon 2.0 takes more experience gained from practice, more patience, or perseverance till you've finally learned how to use it to its fullest potential. Not everyone has this much spare time or dedication of course. Still nevertheless, IME it does pay off, and TBH it pays off rather nicely.
 
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MyMagicMist

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I use to use cotton bacon, but then heard of this '13 feet' Japanese cotton on amazon, it's cheap and works just as well as cotton bacon, been using it for a few years and works great for me :)

Seems good product and at less than $0.50 a foot not a bad cost. If measured per inch it is less than $0.04 per inch. Nice deal. :)
 

CrazyChef v2.0

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I've got a crapload of unbleached organic cotton in bulk if anyone is interested. Like 5 lbs (or more). Same with unbleached organic hemp fiber. If there's an interest I can put it up for sale in the Accessories for sale forum.
 
Wow. Thanks for all the replies, I did a skim read but will have to go back over all of them. I definitely didn't expect so much information. I'll definitely look into cotton bacon and similar products if they're so cheap. Problem is that they aren't readily accessible (unless I order online) as I come from a backwater part of the UK where you have two, maybe 3 choices of vape (2 vape vape pens or a pod vape) in a supermarket and if you asked if they had any 18650 batteries you would just get weird looks and asked "Do you mean the square 9 volt ones?" or something similar. Which is a bit of a problem as one of the two 18650s I ordered is dead on arrival (voltmeter reads 1.6V, I could try charging it using a bench power supply but that will probably lead to fire) so I took apart an old laptop battery (yes I know the IMR cells from laptops are a bit volatile) and am using that (at my own risk, at low wattage) until I can get a replacement shipped out.
I'll have to make a thread (or search one up) on RTA vapes in general as this is my first time using both a box mod and an RTA, the cost of those smok coils is just too prohibitive but there seems to be an art to getting an RTA to work well; I got 80 pre-wound coils of different types so I can change around and see what works best before moving on to coil building. I think I screwed up with the wicks (I used one of the supplies shoelace wicks as it was long enough to do both coils and easily pack down into the slots) as it's already starting to taste used (after about 50 puffs) but had the strongest flavour I've ever tasted on the first puff.
 

5150sick

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Cotton Bacon is good but do not. ever get fake cotton bacon. it's much worse than regular cotton balls.
I had about 10 bags of cotton bacon v2 to start with but then I saw 99 cent bags on eBay. That shit wasn't cotton bacon. Since I have both bags I can (barely) tell the difference but they almost look identical.

I just took some pics of each.

Real Cotton Bacon:
1629910784479.png
1629910809270.png

that's a real bag. I'll put the fake one in a second post.
 

5150sick

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Ok Here's the fake stuff that came from China.

1629910949939.png

This little spot here is the only major difference that stood out to me. The red ink bled through a little where the white lettering is at the top right of the back.
1629911045634.png


The real cotton bacon tastes great this stuff here tastes like burnt hair.
 

ajvapes

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Cotton is the least expensive commodity you will use. I would be more concerned about your batteries. Venting a battery could cause serious injury and cost you more in equipment lost......DON'T be stupid to save a few bucks (quid). you have many reasonably priced online shops in the UK..get a two pair of Molicell P26 batteries and an external charger and you will be set for at least two years...There is plenty of threads in this forum on safety, wicking and building. Yes when in doubt ask, but doing a bit of research will help.
 
Ok Here's the fake stuff that came from China.

View attachment 185605

This little spot here is the only major difference that stood out to me. The red ink bled through a little where the white lettering is at the top right of the back.
View attachment 185606


The real cotton bacon tastes great this stuff here tastes like burnt hair.
It's pretty clear on the packaging, if your name is not Mulated it will not work for you. :)

Cotton is the least expensive commodity you will use. I would be more concerned about your batteries. Venting a battery could cause serious injury and cost you more in equipment lost......DON'T be stupid to save a few bucks (quid). you have many reasonably priced online shops in the UK..get a two pair of Molicell P26 batteries and an external charger and you will be set for at least two years...There is plenty of threads in this forum on safety, wicking and building. Yes when in doubt ask, but doing a bit of research will help.
Yeah. I seem to have gotten the battery to charge after giving it 5 minutes at 3.2v 1A on a power bank then charged it to capacity on a balance charger. I had assumed USB charging would be just fine but apparently that's not good (though why add a USB charger then and not say to use it only as a last resort) even though I managed to resurrect the DOA battery I've still asked for a replacement over amazon as apparently ones that have been severely undervolted hold less capacity. There's no mention of it bursting into flames however so I'm using it instead of the laptop battery as the 18650s I bought are specifically designed for vaping (high current output and not ICR like the laptop one) made by Vapecell. It was just a little frustrating to get everything today, have a battery that initially refused to charge until I decided to try using a bench PSU to kick start it (while it was on a ceramic plate in case it burst into flame) then charged it up on a balance charger and all went well, it even seems to hold capacity so I'm wondering if there's a step at the factory where they bring them up to charge that could have been missed? I'll have to read more into how they're made. I'll still be getting a replacement for it, no point in blowing up an expensive mod box for a few pounds but I checked every retail outlet here that had a stock check option and there wasn't 18650 in stock to be found in over 200 miles. The vape shop would have some but they'll be lower capacity than what I can get online and 2-4 times the price. I've been checking if the dodgy 18650 got hot and it didn't so it's maybe okay but a replacement will still be on the way and I'll probably get two molicell 18650s as they seem to be reasonably priced and readily available. Most 18650s I saw were abput 1/2 the price of the mod for a set of two. Using a cell from a laptop battery was a stopgap measure and considering that my pinky finger rests right over the vent holes I don't really feel comfortable turning this up over half the wattage output until I get a replacement.

I definitely wouldn't do it if I had a mech mod as there's no IC to protect you from mishaps there and I don't see myself moving to a mech mod for a while and if I do I'd like to build it myself as I'm doing electrical engineering and small projects like that are interesting but I'll stick with a box mod with ICs for now until I get used to coil building.
 
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Carambrda

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You should NEVER use a battery if it has been overdischarged. It's an accident waiting to happen, as it can unexpectedly short circuit internally during use. The fact that you were still able to charge it doesn't mean anything. The safety of your battery has been compromised, and, there's nothing you can do that will un-compromise it.

The Molicel battery that @ajvapes was referring to is here:

"Fogstar Ltd are a fully authorised distributor of Molicel within the UK."
This has been confirmed by Mooch.
 
H
You should NEVER use a battery if it has been overdischarged. It's an accident waiting to happen, as it can unexpectedly short circuit internally during use. The fact that you were still able to charge it doesn't mean anything. The safety of your battery has been compromised, and, there's nothing you can do that will un-compromise it.

The Molicel battery that @ajvapes was referring to is here:

"Fogstar Ltd are a fully authorised distributor of Molicel within the UK."
This has been confirmed by Mooch.
Got one ordered, if I'm lucky I should have it by Saturday, if not; Tuesday and if I'm really unlucky Wednesday or Thursday. Monday is unfortunately a Bank Holiday. The price was surprisingly reasonable even with shipping. Thanks.

From the literature I've read Li-ion cells that have been underdischarged only really become dangerous when you discharge them below zero volts creating negative voltage which in effects causes the anode and cathode to swap until they're charged back up which causes the formation of copper dendrites within the cell so it may be fine, or just have a reduced capacity. However you can never be too careful and it'll be swapped out at the first possible chance. I made sure to mark the bad cell with a sharpie marker before putting it in my mod so I don't make the mistake of changing the wrong one.

I got into vaping by buying a half price 'disposable' vape for next to nothing which contained a rechargeable lithium ion cell (no charging circuitry however) and I just charged that up on a bench power supply with crocodile clips and refilled the tank by drilling a hole in the side that could be filled from a very tiny nozzle and used vinyl tape to cover it after filling essentially turning it into a refillable pod vape after that I went and got a smok vape pen v2 but the coil costs stack up quickly as they last 3 days max and cost about £2.20 each for the 0.6 ohm ones. I like tinkering with stuff rather than having everything prebuilt which is probably why I went with an RTA.
 

Just Frank

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Smok tanks even with the RBA (rebuildable) attachment aren't good at all for flavor.
I call BS on this. I can get great flavor out of a few of their RBA decks. Not trying to be confrontational or anything, just respectfully disagree. I've got just about every one of their tanks and RBA from the last 5 years or so. I see lots of claims about Smok that don't make sense to me. My experience has usually been different from those claims. I'm not saying Smok RBAs beat all RTAs or anything outlandish. I'm just saying some of them can work really well and give a nice flavorful vape.

My favorite cotton at the moment is Puff and Muji which are just cheap organic pads. It has nothing to do with price. It has everything to do with clean flavor. I've probably tried more (different types and brands of) wicking material than most people. For the longest time I was using vape branded pouch cotton. I re tried my old pads and the flavor just popped. It's like I didn't know what I was missing. Everybody uses different things and that's fine. I think people should use what works best for them.
 

Carambrda

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H

Got one ordered, if I'm lucky I should have it by Saturday, if not; Tuesday and if I'm really unlucky Wednesday or Thursday. Monday is unfortunately a Bank Holiday. The price was surprisingly reasonable even with shipping. Thanks.

From the literature I've read Li-ion cells that have been underdischarged only really become dangerous when you discharge them below zero volts creating negative voltage which in effects causes the anode and cathode to swap until they're charged back up which causes the formation of copper dendrites within the cell so it may be fine, or just have a reduced capacity. However you can never be too careful and it'll be swapped out at the first possible chance. I made sure to mark the bad cell with a sharpie marker before putting it in my mod so I don't make the mistake of changing the wrong one.

I got into vaping by buying a half price 'disposable' vape for next to nothing which contained a rechargeable lithium ion cell (no charging circuitry however) and I just charged that up on a bench power supply with crocodile clips and refilled the tank by drilling a hole in the side that could be filled from a very tiny nozzle and used vinyl tape to cover it after filling essentially turning it into a refillable pod vape after that I went and got a smok vape pen v2 but the coil costs stack up quickly as they last 3 days max and cost about £2.20 each for the 0.6 ohm ones. I like tinkering with stuff rather than having everything prebuilt which is probably why I went with an RTA.
No, a lithium-ion rechargeable cell becomes too unreliable to still be called reasonably safe the moment when you discharge it to below the minimum voltage (*) that's written in the official datasheet of the cell. This has been confirmed by Mooch. Don't do it. In fact you shouldn't even be vaping on a laptop battery anyway in the first place, but... vaping on a laptop battery that has been overdischarged? No. Just no.

(*) For the Molicel P26A, that would be 2.5V.
 

nadalama

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I call BS on this. I can get great flavor out of a few of their RBA decks. Not trying to be confrontational or anything, just respectfully disagree. I've got just about every one of their tanks and RBA from the last 5 years or so. I see lots of claims about Smok that don't make sense to me. My experience has usually been different from those claims. I'm not saying Smok RBAs beat all RTAs or anything outlandish. I'm just saying some of them can work really well and give a nice flavorful vape.

My favorite cotton at the moment is Puff and Muji which are just cheap organic pads. It has nothing to do with price. It has everything to do with clean flavor. I've probably tried more (different types and brands of) wicking material than most people. For the longest time I was using vape branded pouch cotton. I re tried my old pads and the flavor just popped. It's like I didn't know what I was missing. Everybody uses different things and that's fine. I think people should use what works best for them.

I have RBAs for several different Smok tanks and the only one I haven't liked is the Big Baby Beast. I especially like the Resa Prince (uses a regular Prince RBA) and the single-coil Spirals RBAs.

Now not specifically on topic, but....about RBAs in general...

I have an OG Crown tank and the flavor from it with the factory coil was nearly nonexistent. It was a different world altogether when I switched that coil out for the RBA.

I thought the iJoy Avenger tanks' RBAs were really good, too, but after I used them a while, I started having dry hits and couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. I've pulled all of them out of rotation now.
 

Carambrda

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About the whole flavor debate. Flavor is always going to be subjective of course. But this doesn't also mean that I don't value other people's opinions about this subject. Descriptions coming from someone whose conclusions are strikingly in line with my own are descriptions that I can't look past. When I feel confident that someone has put in real effort to make comparisons in such a way that comparisons are meaningful for the fact that they are convincingly representative of a given product's flavor production, that's when I'll often decide to listen up and consider to buy some of the stuff that this someone finds to be top-of-the-line. It means that I set the bar very high when it comes to choosing people whose opinions I trust, as I don't want to waste my time following advice from someone who, for example, doesn't even know how to properly install a decent handbuilt complex coil into an RDA or who, for another example, thinks that a lot of RTAs are on par flavor wise with my preferred RDAs. To be clear, everyone is entitled to think that. But, to be more clear, I read through comments like that as if claiming there are no colors in a rainbow, so... :D
 
No, a lithium-ion rechargeable cell becomes too unreliable to still be called reasonably safe the moment when you discharge it to below the minimum voltage (*) that's written in the official datasheet of the cell. This has been confirmed by Mooch. Don't do it. In fact you shouldn't even be vaping on a laptop battery anyway in the first place, but... vaping on a laptop battery that has been overdischarged? No. Just no.

(*) For the Molicel P26A, that would be 2.5V.
You've got things a bit mixed up, probably because my posts are walls of text with terrible grammar.

I definitely wouldn't vape using an overdischarged laptop cell that's been sitting in storage for 4 years.

When I ordered the mod and the RTA I ordered two 18650 cells under the brand of 'Vapecell' which seemed to be a decent brand with good reviews. When everything arrived I tried charging the 18650s using the USB charger in the mod, it wouldn't charge. So I took out my multimeter and tested them, one read fine at about 3 volts and the other read at about 1.7 volts, which explains why it wouldn't charge.

So I initially took an old laptop battery apart for a cell (which was in perfect working order and would even run the laptop, though the laptop has a dead screen and other issues) and used the one good cell with the laptop cell until I tried charging the bad cell I got up to 3 volts on a bench power supply and then used a balance charger to charge it the rest of the way as all the literature I had read was that an over-discharged cell would work but wouldn't hold it's stated capacity however nothing said they would vent unless they were overdischarged to negative voltage and then recharged to a positive voltage (there are papers on it and Bigclive did some of his own research too) but what I had read about laptop batteries as they use. What I had read about ICR laptop batteries was much worse stating that they might catch fire or explode if a high current draw was applied to them, like if they were used in a vape.

I know it's a roll of the dice, it just seems that from what I've read that an overdischarged ICR cell is (touch wood) safer than an IMR cell designed for a laptop that is about 6 years old in total and has had a bunch of charge/discharge cycles on it.

Neither are safe however I hope the one that's been resurrected is safer than a laptop cell.
As I've said, one of those molicell 18650s has been ordered to replace it with the fastest postage possible.
 

Carambrda

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You've got things a bit mixed up, probably because my posts are walls of text with terrible grammar.

I definitely wouldn't vape using an overdischarged laptop cell that's been sitting in storage for 4 years.

When I ordered the mod and the RTA I ordered two 18650 cells under the brand of 'Vapecell' which seemed to be a decent brand with good reviews. When everything arrived I tried charging the 18650s using the USB charger in the mod, it wouldn't charge. So I took out my multimeter and tested them, one read fine at about 3 volts and the other read at about 1.7 volts, which explains why it wouldn't charge.

So I initially took an old laptop battery apart for a cell (which was in perfect working order and would even run the laptop, though the laptop has a dead screen and other issues) and used the one good cell with the laptop cell until I tried charging the bad cell I got up to 3 volts on a bench power supply and then used a balance charger to charge it the rest of the way as all the literature I had read was that an over-discharged cell would work but wouldn't hold it's stated capacity however nothing said they would vent unless they were overdischarged to negative voltage and then recharged to a positive voltage (there are papers on it and Bigclive did some of his own research too) but what I had read about laptop batteries as they use. What I had read about ICR laptop batteries was much worse stating that they might catch fire or explode if a high current draw was applied to them, like if they were used in a vape.

I know it's a roll of the dice, it just seems that from what I've read that an overdischarged ICR cell is (touch wood) safer than an IMR cell designed for a laptop that is about 6 years old in total and has had a bunch of charge/discharge cycles on it.

Neither are safe however I hope the one that's been resurrected is safer than a laptop cell.
As I've said, one of those molicell 18650s has been ordered to replace it with the fastest postage possible.
AFAIK none of the literature states "overdischarged to negative voltage". Below is a download link to a publication that clearly states the fact that severe overdischarge can lead to internal short circuit (ISCr).

Discharge to below 2.0V or so, i.e., to below -12% SOC (State Of Charge) is what's called severe overdischarge. ISCr can cause a cell to burst. After the cell had been discharged to 1.7V like you said, if you immediately brought the cell up from 1.7V back to 3.0V at a very slow charging rate, then the cell should still be fine. But, going by what you also said, the cell had stayed below 2.0V for a prolonged period of time that you don't know exactly how long, just that it was long enough for it to not meet the description of "immediately". That's why you shouldn't be using this cell─for your own safety as well as for the safety of those around you.

 
AFAIK none of the literature states "overdischarged to negative voltage". Below is a download link to a publication that clearly states the fact that severe overdischarge can lead to internal short circuit (ISCr).

Discharge to below 2.0V or so, i.e., to below -12% SOC (State Of Charge) is what's called severe overdischarge. ISCr can cause a cell to burst. After the cell had been discharged to 1.7V like you said, if you immediately brought the cell up from 1.7V back to 3.0V at a very slow charging rate, then the cell should still be fine. But, going by what you also said, the cell had stayed below 2.0V for a prolonged period of time that you don't know exactly how long, just that it was long enough for it to not meet the description of "immediately". That's why you shouldn't be using this cell─for your own safety as well as for the safety of those around you.

I'm really not trying to start an argument and I am replacing that cell as soon as possible as it may not be safe and a may is enough to warrant buying a new cell taking extra precautionary measures and waiting for the supplier to sort things out on their end regarding the bad cell as that might take a week or two. However nless I'm completely incorrect 0% SOC is where a cell reaches 0V, in that it is completely dead therefore -12% is at negative voltage, in other words the positive terminal on the cell will be the negative, not - 12% below 2v, but -12% below zero volts.


I am erring on the side of caution though. I also moght be totally wrong. As such the cells get taken out of the mod, go into their plastic shipping carriers, into a kevlar LiPo safe pack (originally for quadcopter batteries) and then into an enameled metal container overnight until I get it replaced with a cell that is guaranteed working. The only person in the household is me so there's no danger to children, I've a young pet cat that likes pawing at everything and that's why it gets put into two fireproof containers (a kevlar lined "LiPo safe" bag and then an enammled steel box) overnight as well as the plastic covers that they came in.

Hopefully I'm right in that the only capacity is just reduced and its not going to go kaboom however I'll still take as much care as possible whilst knowing I'm taking a risk. If I could have gone out and got an 18650 when I saw this one was bad I would have done it. If I'm wrong (I hope I'm not or that I get lucky if I am) and I end up toasting a finger or something, I did something dumb and should be held accountable, the cell manufacturer/vendor should also be more responsible but it was me who decided to charge it up and as such if I get injured that's my fault.
 
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You are completely incorrect.
You're right, I was completely wrong there.

However reading over the study you posted the voltage of a Li-ion cell overdischarged to -12%SOC is about -2.2V, the Voltage/SOC curve drops extremely steeply once you get to about 0%SOC (which is about 2.5V as stated by you) so for me to be at -12% SOC I would have had to have read negative voltage. Looking at the graph the cell I got would have been at about -3% SOC. Which isn't near the -12% SOC where the entire chemistry of the cell changes and becomes dangerous.
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
You're right, I was completely wrong there.

However reading over the study you posted the voltage of a Li-ion cell overdischarged to -12%SOC is about -2.2V, the Voltage/SOC curve drops extremely steeply once you get to about 0%SOC (which is about 2.5V as stated by you) so for me to be at -12% SOC I would have had to have read negative voltage. Looking at the graph the cell I got would have been at about -3% SOC. Which isn't near the -12% SOC where the entire chemistry of the cell changes and becomes dangerous.
No, discharging a cell to below 2.0V and leaving it below 2.0V for a prolonged period of time has a similar consequence, i.e., it too can lead to internally short circuiting the cell. Please watch from 31:23 through 31:45 in this recorded live stream:

 
No, discharging a cell to below 2.0V and leaving it below 2.0V for a prolonged period of time has a similar consequence, i.e., it too can lead to internally short circuiting the cell. Please watch from 31:23 through 31:45 in this recorded live stream:

Thanks for the video.
The cell is being replaced, I ordered one of the molicells from the site linked by you, they should have shipped on Friday (they had about 14 hours before their 3pm cutoff) but they didn't (I'll be taking this up with them as if you make a shipping guarantee you had best stick to it, especially when you're paying for their fastest offered shipping) and once I get the replacement cell I'll see about putting this cell through destructive testing in the form of high current draw, extra fast 30V 3A charging using a bench PSU with no protection and so on and so forth to see when and how violently it let's go. I'll even see if I can get some videos. I'll wear a safety T-shirt when doing so.

What I can take away from that livestream is two things. 1) The cell should be replaced. Which is already happening as fast as possible. 2) He starts out by asking for more subscribers so people can send him more free stuff. 2 is a big red flag as the only streamers I trust (mainly AvE who has repeatedly told sponsors to 'consider procreation with themselves' and Bigclive who has turned down extremely expensive keysight scopes, meters and other very expensive electronic test equipment for the bare minimum because he wants to keep things to a hobbyist level, despite being an EE for over two decades) pay for their stuff out of their own pocket. Maybe I'm being silly in saying that's a red flag but I don't like "feels good in the hand" reviews.

I would like to get the topic back onto cotton however as I feel this has run its course. I said the literature I read said things shouldn't be too sketchy and it did indeed say that despite a mistake on my part thinking that 0% SOC was 0V as I didn't look at the curves in the study.

A new cell should be shipped out on Tuesday. The current cells are being kept in their plastic containers in a kevlar bag inside an enameled metal container away from flammable materials overnight. There's nobody but me using the mod and cell so if any harm comes to anyone, it comes to me; which is the cornerstone of personal responsibility.
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
The cell is being replaced,
Sure, but you are still continuing to use the cell for at least another while, regardless. That's not how battery safety factually works. Rather, it works by simply not taking the risk the same moment when the level of risk can no longer be called acceptable. It's just a fact. Knowing this fact is not enough. Battery safety can't exist unless you also act accordingly. It doesn't work by trying to find tame excuses. So much so, the exact opposite is the only way that it can ever work.
especially when you're paying for their fastest offered shipping
Covid-19 might be to blame for this, but anyway I dunno.
destructive testing
how violently
Watch out that you don't cause an accident when you perish. I'll read about you in the newspaper after you've won the Darwin Award.
He starts out by asking for more subscribers so people can send him more free stuff.
Hang on now. He's not asking for free stuff, just a little bit of money to be able to buy more different batteries so that he can test them, and to buy the plywood that's needed to hold all his test equipment. Small stuff like that. Most of the batteries he has tested were batteries that he bought and paid for with his own money. Batteries that were donated to him were only just a small fraction of all the ones that he has tested. Last time when his live stream was cut off, it was cut off because he didn't even have the money to buy a better WiFi system. Nobody else but him has educated the vaping community better about batteries, battery safety and battery performance. He is actively helping to save people's lives. What could be terribly wrong about that?
2 is a big red flag as the only streamers I trust (mainly AvE who has repeatedly told sponsors to 'consider procreation with themselves' and Bigclive who has turned down extremely expensive keysight scopes, meters and other very expensive electronic test equipment for the bare minimum because he wants to keep things to a hobbyist level, despite being an EE for over two decades) pay for their stuff out of their own pocket. Maybe I'm being silly in saying that's a red flag but I don't like "feels good in the hand" reviews.
No, you're not being silly. Rather, you're being largely uneducated like the vast majority of people are.
I would like to get the topic back onto cotton however as I feel this has run its course.
That's how a lot of people usually respond after someone called them out for their being poorly informed about a few tech related subjects and their persistent refusal to accept that that's what they are.
the literature I read
Do yourself a big favor and start watching all videos that Mooch has posted on his personal YouTube channel. I know it takes a very long time to do that, but I still did it nevertheless, and, I haven't regretted the decision. I just hope he will come back really soon. You'll be able to tell him yourself how wrong you think he is about batteries.
 

MyMagicMist

Platinum Contributor
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Member For 5 Years
Summarizing, do your diligence and research batteries. Figure out what is accepted as reasonably safe to use. Use those kind of batteries. Mooch apparently has some advanced electrical knowledge. He has done a lot of research on batteries. Thanks.

That stated one can take Mooch's advice as well as advice from others. We live in an age where there is not merely one singular authority on any given subject matter.

This does not discredit anyone's talent, skill, learning, research or them. It is only expressing there are multiple sources one can use in thinking for themselves regarding anything. That is a fact of our time.

Now, getting back to cotton does not discredit anyone either. It is what this particular thread was started on discussing. Only reasonable to guide conversation back unto topic. There's no reason in calling names, demeaning others who steer conversation back to topic.

Is someone seeming uneducated? Possibly. Does it matter? A bit yes. Has this person been advised to look for more information? Seems they have and then some.

Fine, let it go. Return to discussing cotton, wicking. You can only beat a dead horse so much before you get sore feet and hands. I digress though, as some horses still refuse drinking water even if led. Makes you wonder who has what education.
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Summarizing, do your diligence and research batteries. Figure out what is accepted as reasonably safe to use. Use those kind of batteries. Mooch apparently has some advanced electrical knowledge. He has done a lot of research on batteries. Thanks.

That stated one can take Mooch's advice as well as advice from others. We live in an age where there is not merely one singular authority on any given subject matter.

This does not discredit anyone's talent, skill, learning, research or them. It is only expressing there are multiple sources one can use in thinking for themselves regarding anything. That is a fact of our time.

Now, getting back to cotton does not discredit anyone either. It is what this particular thread was started on discussing. Only reasonable to guide conversation back unto topic. There's no reason in calling names, demeaning others who steer conversation back to topic.

Is someone seeming uneducated? Possibly. Does it matter? A bit yes. Has this person been advised to look for more information? Seems they have and then some.

Fine, let it go. Return to discussing cotton, wicking. You can only beat a dead horse so much before you get sore feet and hands. I digress though, as some horses still refuse drinking water even if led. Makes you wonder who has what education.
Looking for advice from others also is part of Mooch's advice. Had you done your diligence before recommending to others to do their diligence, then maybe you would have noticed this. Summarizing, the world is choc full of people who seem like they can't even take their own advice. It's just another one of my observations. You can lead a horse to water, but first you need to know the difference between a horse and a donkey, and you also need to know where the water is. Hopefully all the water didn't get sucked up by the cotton. Because if it did, the cotton would be completely useless now. Imagine how sad this would be. But try not to get too sad, as tears are known to also wet the cotton... :giggle:
 

MyMagicMist

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Looking for advice from others also is part of Mooch's advice. Had you done your diligence before recommending to others to do their diligence, then maybe you would have noticed this

Did I say I hadn't noticed that. No. You likely inferred it since I didn't expressly say I had noticed it.

One does not need to express all they observe, know. Often among those considered friends it is commonly understood, most in said group know the same knowledge.

Ah. Figured that out though. You're not a friend apparently. You wouldn't understand, or have any clue what I do observe, know. No, you stay too far up in that ivory tower, or suffer from a cranium in rectal orifice.

You can lead a horse to water, but first you need to know the difference between a horse and a donkey, and you also need to know where the water is.

Guess you can let the jackass reveal itself by the way it infers and assumes.

As for inferring I'm crying over anything, you may want to check your own mascara. I am quite calmly getting a mild chuckle over how little one so "all knowing", really knows. And no, I was not trolling. I say that sincerely, I was not trolling. In your case I have no need to troll. You troll yourself.
 
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Getting back to cotton I ran out of the shoelace cotton provided with the zeus x today (I managed to use one 'shoelace' over two coils), the first one lasted longer for about 1100 draws the second one lasted about 500 at which point there wasn't much flavour. That said I also changed the coils with some cheap prebuilt amazon ones (I just want to see if coil type has much of an effect other than resistance) and went with the same fused clapton style that came in the box with the zeus x. They had a slightly higher resistance and one extra turn which is why I think the second piece of cotton died quicker than the first, as the extra thermal mass meant it was slower to heat and slower to cool, meaning that if you get a dry hit the cotton was getting scorched rather than the coil cooling off quickly.
So I picked up a bag of 100 cotton balls (50g) for £0.75. Put in a new pair of prebuilt coils, unrolled a cotton ball and cut it to size, fitted it as a set of wicks and started things up.
It tasted pretty strange and nothing seemed to be working right. Then I saw the airflow 'chimney' (top airflow) sitting on my desk. After fitting that things tasted better for a short while until it started to taste like a mixture of the smell of burned skin (really not a pleasant smell) and singed hair.
So I rewicked with new cotton ball and while it seemed to have an off taste (kind of similar to the burned skin and hair but much less and it may have been in my head) to begin with it tastes fine now, it actually seems to have a bit more flavour than the shoelace cotton.
Of course I'll need to give it a fair comparison so I have some cotton bacon prime ordered and if all goes well it should be here Thursday or Friday, provided they don't hit me with the same silly age verification check that ebay uses which has made me abandon ebay altogether for vaping stuff as I don't own a credit card, my driving licence isn't an English one and thus isn't accepted using the automated system and I can't hold completely still for 30 seconds for automated the age estimation; I've bought far more heavily controlled (in the UK) stuff online such as a few crossbows and bows as well as some camping knives and they were happy enough with a pic of my student ID emailed to them. EBay still doesn't ask for age verification on arrows or broadhead tips for them, but if you want to buy some cotton; you need to use an awful app. Though I'm getting off topic.

Hopefully the new 18650 cell arrives tomorrow, the delay in shipping was apparently due to the bank holiday and a wedding and while I would have preferred they didn't have the shipping guarantee up on their site if they couldn't ship that day due to all being at a wedding I'm not going to drag them over hot coals for it.
Once the replacement cell does arrive I'll try destructive testing on one of the laptop cells. I really want to see if the "They're gonna explode!!!" claims are true (they probably don't deliver the current required for a vape over 60 Watts though) and after the laptop cell I'll test out the bad 18650 I got unless the amazon vendor asks for it to be returned even though I've supplied them with a pic of it reading 1.7v on a multimeter and if they ask it to be returned I'll ask if it can be shipped back with the positive tab/nipple cut off as I don't want them sending it on to someone who has no clue it's a bad cell but they can still recycle it that way. If they refuse then I'll take the loss rather than them maybe re-selling it and harming someone else. As for safety during D estructive testing I'll be wearing my safety T-shirt and a face shield. A lithium ion cell has about 1/100th the energy density of petrol so it's not like I'm dealing with liquid nitroglycerin, but I don't want shrapnel or boiling electrolyte in my eyes.

As for Mooch, I feel like I've insulted a sacred cow. He definitely seems experienced I just shy away from people who ask for subs. Suggesting that they donate through patreon is a better way to go about it, or at least I find it less of an on your face way to ask for donos, the whole "like comment subscribe" overlay tends to be less in my face but that's because it's used so regularly I kind of tune it out. I don't think that he is wrong on what he's talking about, he seems well experienced, although I wish he went into even more detail, even if I only understand half of it or need to do a few days of reading to understand most of it. The bundle of notes on the livestream was also something a bit alien to me as I'm used to people like Louis Rossman and other technical you tubers being able to recite stuff immediately off the top of their though even when it comes to stuff I know really well I occasionally forget important details when put on the spot, like in the middle of doing a livestream and reading through comments as well as talking about something I know well. What does/did he do other than or before reviewing cells/batteries anyway? Electrochemist? Electrical engineer? I'm genuinely curious.
 

nethanpaul

Member For 1 Year
Are you asking about regular cotton vs organic one? If it's that, definitely going for organic cotton is safer and better. It might cost you a bit more, but still worth the price.
 
Are you asking about regular cotton vs organic one? If it's that, definitely going for organic cotton is safer and better. It might cost you a bit more, but still worth the price.
Regular supermarket cotton balls.
I have a huge roll of cotton but cotton balls seem easier to shape into wicking material. They're branded as 100% cotton, I can't say I've ever seen organic cotton sold here in stores, I checked their sites and the only things that mention organic cotton are feminine hygiene products and I'm not vaping off tampons. The cotton balls do claim to be 100% pure cotton so I assume that means little to no processing, especially as it also says that they may contain parts of cotton plants like seed husks and stuff.
The cotton bacon should arrive by Saturday (tomorrow hopefully) so I'll have a comparison cotton and the replacement 18650 arrived today along with a 18650 powered LED flashlight which is probably really cheap and was possibly thrown in due to the short delay but it's really bright and blows the old 3xAAA powered flashlight I had out of the water in terms of brightness so that's a thing I can use I guess.
 
I've seen similar threads across multiple forums asking if you can use cotton balls or rolls of cotton instead of the samurai farmed Japanese organic cotton from Ninja groves.
Lots of the threads seem to state that normal cotton contains bleaching agents. H2O2 mainly which isn't really a concern as hydrogen peroxide breaks down to water and oxygen over (fairly rapid amounts of) time, causing many a stored and unvented container to explode in storage (which happened in my school over midterm and apparently glass shards from the bottle were stuck in the walls) but to cut a long story short I've ordered a box mod (An Aegis X and an RTA (Zeus) as well as some pre-wound coils to see what works and what doesn't) but I want to see what people's opinions on using normal cotton are.
I have no experience myself however most sites which try to give their 'opinion' are also trying to sell their magical organic Japanese cotton that has been cut with only the finest katana from edo period Japan and then preserved in a time capsule until now.
The RTA I bought does come with some of this cotton so I can make my own opinion as to how good it is compared to normal cotton but I would like the opinions of people who have actually used both as that way if there is a huge difference I can maybe order more in.

As you can probably tell I'm biased against special cotton mainly because it costs a fair bit more than normal cotton and to me that makes little sense if over the counter cotton that is cheaper should be treated less (of course economy of scale comes into this, if you're making thousands of tons of treated cotton and tens of tons of the untreated sort prices would reflect that) but rarely you pay less for more.

If I could get a some user explanations on why wicking material matters that would be great. It was bottom of my list and getting an RTA as well as a box and 18650 cells can be fairly expensive but it eliminates the 'razor and blades' model of cheaper vapes and I shave with a straight razor so I don't really like the "you pay less but have to pay a large amount every week for more coils" when I can just twist some wire around a jig.

Tldr
Does cotton brand/type really make a difference
Yes regular cotton is bleached and such, you can use muji cotton pads they sell them as makeup removing pads they are unbleached and dirt cheap and you can make 3 wicks out of each pad, i think 180 pads sells for 9 bucks..
if you wish to keep using regular cotton, i would advise you to boil it, then dry it and boil it again and dry it before use, to make sure you wash out any bleaching agents within the cotton.
 
Yes regular cotton is bleached and such, you can use muji cotton pads they sell them as makeup removing pads they are unbleached and dirt cheap and you can make 3 wicks out of each pad, i think 180 pads sells for 9 bucks..
if you wish to keep using regular cotton, i would advise you to boil it, then dry it and boil it again and dry it before use, to make sure you wash out any bleaching agents within the cotton.
No chance of me getting Muji pads on the other side of the Atlantic sadly, at least not in any shops. I might check and see what a large pharmacy has instead of a supermarket. For now I think the cotton ball wicks actually have better flavour than the shoelace cotton that came with the RTA. I'll find out if cotton bacon is good as it's claimed to be and see if I can get Muji pads or something similar online.
As for the bleaching agent used in cotton I've read that it's hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) which if it's pure peroxide it shouldn't be an issue as hydrogen peroxide quickly and readily breaks down into water and oxygen (I remember when I was in school there was a cleanup done in one of the storerooms after the Christmas holidays as a sealed glass container of H2O2 had decomposed into enough oxygen to create enough pressure to blow the glass bottle up, apparently shards of glass had to be pulled from the wall) I'm not sure what else is used in treating it; I could always try emailing the manufacturer and saying that I have sensitive skin (I doubt they would want their cotton used for vaping for PR purposes) and ask how their cotton is treated but I doubt I would get much of a reply other than "It's a 100% pure cotton ball" or something similar. If the only bleaching agent used is hydrogen peroxide then the cotton should have been washed off removing the vast majority of it and then over a few months the residual peroxide, if there is anywill break down into oxygen and water. Assuming the only thing used to treat them is peroxide.
The thing I would be more concerned about would be the machinery used to form the cotton into strips and then ball it up. I assume its done in a fairly clean manner as the cotton is designed for use on human shin however any residual machine oils which may be harmless to skin could be harmful if heated and inhaled, it may be why the cotton tasted bad to begin with and absolutely fine now as oils transferred from machinery to the cotton ball during manufacture have left the cotton ball for a new home; my lungs.
 
No chance of me getting Muji pads on the other side of the Atlantic sadly, at least not in any shops. I might check and see what a large pharmacy has instead of a supermarket. For now I think the cotton ball wicks actually have better flavour than the shoelace cotton that came with the RTA. I'll find out if cotton bacon is good as it's claimed to be and see if I can get Muji pads or something similar online.
As for the bleaching agent used in cotton I've read that it's hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) which if it's pure peroxide it shouldn't be an issue as hydrogen peroxide quickly and readily breaks down into water and oxygen (I remember when I was in school there was a cleanup done in one of the storerooms after the Christmas holidays as a sealed glass container of H2O2 had decomposed into enough oxygen to create enough pressure to blow the glass bottle up, apparently shards of glass had to be pulled from the wall) I'm not sure what else is used in treating it; I could always try emailing the manufacturer and saying that I have sensitive skin (I doubt they would want their cotton used for vaping for PR purposes) and ask how their cotton is treated but I doubt I would get much of a reply other than "It's a 100% pure cotton ball" or something similar. If the only bleaching agent used is hydrogen peroxide then the cotton should have been washed off removing the vast majority of it and then over a few months the residual peroxide, if there is anywill break down into oxygen and water. Assuming the only thing used to treat them is peroxide.
The thing I would be more concerned about would be the machinery used to form the cotton into strips and then ball it up. I assume its done in a fairly clean manner as the cotton is designed for use on human shin however any residual machine oils which may be harmless to skin could be harmful if heated and inhaled, it may be why the cotton tasted bad to begin with and absolutely fine now as oils transferred from machinery to the cotton ball during manufacture have left the cotton ball for a new home; my lungs.
well Amazon sells Muji cotton.
and like i said you can use cotton balls as long as you boil it first bud. :)
 

MyMagicMist

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
checked their sites and the only things that mention organic cotton are feminine hygiene products and I'm not vaping off tampons.

You might find some sterile organic cotton as gauze pads used for first aid purposes, if the stigma of using "tampons" really bothers you that much. You really shouldn't feel any shame, or stigma in using organic cotton though.

Something I learned as an EMT, "tampons" are one hell a useful. They can plug a gaping chest wound right up very quickly and in that case time and sterility are vital. If it saves your life, are you going to give a rat's ass you lived because a "tampon" was handy?

If so well get over insecure masculinity is all I can offer as advice. Macho can be dangerous unless it admits surviving is better than some alleged perceived insult. This is written intending no disrespect, merely expressing life for what it is.

No chance of me getting Muji pads on the other side of the Atlantic sadly, at least not in any shops.

Well I did link to a source that can get you Muji cotton in about 2-4 weeks no matter where you are globally.

Excuse me, jamming ...


Not that my taste in music at times matters to cotton.
 

MyMagicMist

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
like i said you can use cotton balls as long as you boil it first bud.

Agreed, bleach will dry your brain out. Ha ha, in my case that wouldn't matter I think. *chuckles* Wait, ah yeah that was the inconclusive MRI result ... "does patient have brain?"
 
You might find some sterile organic cotton as gauze pads used for first aid purposes, if the stigma of using "tampons" really bothers you that much. You really shouldn't feel any shame, or stigma in using organic cotton though.

Something I learned as an EMT, "tampons" are one hell a useful. They can plug a gaping chest wound right up very quickly and in that case time and sterility are vital. If it saves your life, are you going to give a rat's ass you lived because a "tampon" was handy?

If so well get over insecure masculinity is all I can offer as advice. Macho can be dangerous unless it admits surviving is better than some alleged perceived insult. This is written intending no disrespect, merely expressing life for what it is.



Well I did link to a source that can get you Muji cotton in about 2-4 weeks no matter where you are globally.

Excuse me, jamming ...


Not that my taste in music at times matters to cotton.
No insecurity over tampons, it was more of an offhand joke as IIRC I have some in one of my first aid kits for the reasons you gave, they're excellent for medical use. I have a very extensive first aid kit including swaged suture, a CPR/oxygen mask, an emergency tourniquet about 30 scalpel blades (probably closer to 20 as a scalpel blade is useful for cutting things when you can't find another sharp knife), superglue antibiotics (doxy), sterile water, lots of different dressings and a whole bunch of other stuff that has walked into the box over the years. I'm not an EMT, though I do have first aid, CPR and AED training which came as part of my PADI rescue diver course. The name of the course and the qualification sound more glamorous than they actually are, rescue diver is basically one or two steps from junior instructor and doesn't mean I'm specifically trained for underwater rescue, just that 7nderwater rescue is a big part of the course as its something that's (extremely) good to know if you want to be an instructor. It's more that tampons don't really have the right consistency to make a wick as they're hard packed cotton that is designed to expand, I also don't know what additives they have but since they're designed for internal use I assume they are pure cotton. However putting a tampon apart in the hopes of getting workable cotton doesn't seem as easy as unrolling a cotton ball. I tried to see if a wound dressing (a "Premierpad™") was workable but the cotton inside it was extremely loose. It's also ethylene oxide sterilised, I would assume all the EO is gone but it seems like really nasty stuff.
In short, cotton balls seem like the most workable. If cotton bacon fails to impress ill go for organic Muji pads or some other orga ic cotton product.
Though the more I think about it tampons are super dense and really absorbent which means they wick liquid really well and could maybe be passed through a coil with ease, expanding to fit the coil perfectly. I guess I'm going to have to try it.

As for the video posted, the 18650 was replaced with one of the molicell 18650s today. Was I taking a chance with the other 18650, yes.

However it was a calculated chance based on the study showing that you need to get below a -12% state of charge before lithium ion chemistry really starts to change and become dangerous. I chose to take the risk and the cells were even stored in a kevlar lined bag designed to resist lithium ion cell fires and further stored inside an open topped metal container about 1 foot from flammable materials in any direction overnight, multimeter readings were taken every morning and showed that there was no self-discharge.
I feel its perfectly normal for a person to take risks with their own health so long as they know it, this comes under their own personal responsibility. Don't want to wear safety glasses when metalworking, sure thing; not the fault of the drill press if you get metal shards in your eyes.
Most of society accepts people taking these risks and also accepts people taking risks that could cause harm to others. For example if someone changes brakes/brake pads on their car without any formal training as a mechanic. If somebody says "Yeah I changed my brake pads" nobody bats an eyelid and some people will even congratulate the person on doing it themselves TV even though if done incorrectly it could cause serious injury to said person, anyone travelling with them or anyone in front of the car.
Anyway, cell has been replaced, problem is solved, the old one had definitely lost capacity due to overdischarge anyway. I wish I had bought 2 of the molicells though as the mod I have shows the capacity for each cell and the fact that the slightly lower capacity Vapecell branded cell (the good one) shows a smaller bar than the other as they discharge gets at me in an OCD sort of way.
 

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