Sucralose vs. Ethyl Maltol (DIY Sweetners)?

[QuestForVapology]

About to put in a new order, and I was wondering the difference between the two.

I've noticed that people prefer Ethyl Maltol on many recipe sites. Why is this? Are there noticeable differences between the two in terms of taste, interaction of flavors, the way it affects coils, shelf life, etc.?

 

[Neunerball]

If at all, I'm using Sucralose, rather than EM. EM can mute the flavor(s). A good option is using FA Marshmallow, or FA Pear as sweetener.

 

[Teresa P]

I really prefer to use neither, the flavors are generally sweet enough on their own. Many of those recipe sites use a tremendous amount of flavoring (20% or more) and I believe that's because of EM (cotton candy). It tends to mute flavors, therefore more flavoring has to be added to create a "balance." Sucralose is only needed in the tiniest amounts - not even a drop per 10ml - and I only use it then if I'm shooting for an overly exaggerated "candy" taste.

 

[AmandaD]

I never use either!

 

[wally]

I have never needed it. Out of all the flavorings that I have gone through only one needed sweet added so why bother.

 

[Heabob]

I'd vote for Stevia but it's not on the list.

 

[QuestForVapology]

Just added. Why stevia over the rest?

 

[wally]

You also need to add "Never use"

 

[Teresa P]

I have Capella cherry wild w/stevia, only used it once, and I just didn't care for the taste. Heaven knows it's hard enough to find a cherry flavoring that doesn't taste like cough syrup, but this has a funky aftertaste I'm going to blame on the addition of stevia. I could always be wrong though.

 

[wally]

I have Capella cherry wild w/stevia, only used it once, and I just didn't care for the taste. Heaven knows it's hard enough to find a cherry flavoring that doesn't taste like cough syrup, but this has a funky aftertaste I'm going to blame on the addition of stevia. I could always be wrong though.

What is a good cherry that is like what we want.

 

[Teresa P]

I dunno, I've tried about all of them but Inawera. And I really don't know why I don't have Inawera, since I have so many of their other fruit flavors and love them.

 

[Bucky205]

I've used all three, depending on the recipe. Ethyl maltol is more of a cotton candy flavor. Sucralose, and Stevia are just sweet. I also use marshmallow sometimes. I make a clone called Betty, that I really like. It is 10% Forest fruit, 15% sucralose. If you use Stevia instead of sucralose it taste horrible. Betty is an extreme, and I am even amazed it taste so good. EM I am usually at 1 or 2%, Stevia a couple of drops in a 30 ml sometimes.

 

[QuestForVapology]

You also need to add "Never use"

While I respect DIYers who don't use sweetners, I have a few recipes that specifically need sweetners. So I'm trying to find out which additive is superior, and why. So far Sucralose seems to be the best option because it retains background flavor.

 

[Bucky205]

While I respect DIYers who don't use sweetners, I have a few recipes that specifically need sweetners. So I'm trying to find out which additive is superior, and why. So far Sucralose seems to be the best option because it retains background flavor.

If you will give me a clue what flavors your mixing, I can make a better guess.

 

[QuestForVapology]

Whoa 15% sucralose?

I'm trying to clone Rex by Opus Elixer. It's an intensely sweetened Strawberry and Kiwi flavor.

I'm also working on a personal flavor that needs an extremely bright vanilla flavor, so I'm looking for sweetners.

And in general, I'm just looking for some rules of thumbs on sweetners and why there are so many.

 

[Jimi]

Seems like, IMHO, that FA marshmallow would work great in either. For me sweeteners sometimes taste bad.

 

[Debbiej]

New to DIY and curious about alcohol used with powdered splendid. Would that change the flavor? Vodka? Shiver...vodka and I had a hideous night out. Why not water? Or sprinkle splendid straight in while mixing? I can see using alcohol when wanting to store, it acts as a preservant. Is it just a matter of dissolving crystals? I'm a sugar freak and love sweet. I have seen a couple recipes use sweetener, seems like marshmallows change flavor a smidge and maltol dulls.

 

[Jimi]

New to DIY and curious about alcohol used with powdered splendid. Would that change the flavor? Vodka? Shiver...vodka and I had a hideous night out. Why not water? Or sprinkle splendid straight in while mixing? I can see using alcohol when wanting to store, it acts as a preservant. Is it just a matter of dissolving crystals? I'm a sugar freak and love sweet. I have seen a couple recipes use sweetener, seems like marshmallows change flavor a smidge and maltol dulls.

Yes marshmallow might slightly change the flavor, but who knows you might like it.

 

[Heabob]

Just added. Why stevia over the rest?

Stevia does not mute like EM.
And it doesn't have the "diet pop" aftertaste like Sucralose.
Some Stevia types do have an aftertaste, especially if using too much.
As an example: I'm using 2 drops to sweeten a whole cup of coffee, and that's around what, 200ml? (just guessing).
So even 1 drop in 30ml should be pretty dang sweet.
Best to dilute the Stevia at 10%, or 50% even, to help control it better.
Other sweeteners are usually being used in percents, .5% = around 3 drops?
3 drops of Sucralose is also very sweet, how many drops for a cup of Java?
Even 1 drop is super sweet, just sayin, if you use any sweeteners, go easy with them.
I just can't fathom using the amount of sweetener being used in some of the recipes I've seen.

Splenda has 1 sugar molecule removed (from Sugar), by using Chlorine, don't think I'd wanna vape that.
I prefer using Brown Sugar, Marshmallow, Meringue, Sweet Cream, etc.
They usually help more than hurt as far as changing the flavor, just don't use 15%.

Just my humble opinion as you will need to experiment with these to find your own preferences I think.

 

[QuestForVapology]

Had some time today to mix some testers.

Made 2% of Sucralose (at a standard 10 PG:1 Sucralose ratio), and 2% of TFA Ethyl Maltol.

For me, the clear winner is Sucralose.

Sucralose tasted like table sugar (duh). It's light and bright. Too much and it'll really take over. After trying 2%, I would back down to 0.5%-1%.

I was let down by Ethyl Maltol (EM). EM had a brown sugar taste at 2%. It had more body than Sucralose, but its more for a baked pastry application. People also say that it tastes like cotton candy at higher percentages. I taste brown sugar. I'd use EM at 0.5%-1% for certain recipes that I'd need a darker sweetner for baked cake stuff (not candy).

 

[QuestForVapology]

Just want to add something.

I just got off the phone with a really informative rep from TFA, and he explained the difference to me like this:

Sucralose is much more of a brighter table sugar flavor.
EM is tastes like brown sugar if mixed by itself, but it actually should be viewed as a flavor enhancer. EM actually sweetens every individual flavor, where's sucralose is just a independent flavor.

go figure..

 

[zdawk]

Where are you guys buying these sweetners? Are you just mixing them in to PG to create a custom sweetner or are these sold as a flavor you'd just drip into your ejuice recipe? I have a bag of baking stevia, do I just stir it into PG or VG or am I just way off here?
-Newber

 

[Teresa P]

Where are you guys buying these sweetners? Are you just mixing them in to PG to create a custom sweetner or are these sold as a flavor you'd just drip into your ejuice recipe? I have a bag of baking stevia, do I just stir it into PG or VG or am I just way off here?
-Newber

No, don't use the ones meant for baking and such as there are added chemicals that we really don't need in our juices. We purchase sweeteners from our flavor vendors, Bull City Vapor, ECig Express, and others.

 

[nabibrian]

@zdawk hello and welcome to the VU, nice to have you here

 

[The Cromwell]

Just added. Why stevia over the rest?

For me it is because artificial sweeteners taste horrible to me. Why I am 100% DIY.

 

[QuestForVapology]

Has anybody's coils gunked up because of sucralose?

 

[The Cromwell]

Has anybody's coils gunked up because of sucralose?

Dunno but I get almost 2 months on a .75 GS Air coil at ~20 watts using GNC Nu Stevia sweetner.

 

[AndriaD]

About to put in a new order, and I was wondering the difference between the two.

I've noticed that people prefer Ethyl Maltol on many recipe sites. Why is this? Are there noticeable differences between the two in terms of taste, interaction of flavors, the way it affects coils, shelf life, etc.?

I simply don't find EM to be very sweet. Never tried stevia, but I do know that the more organic ingredients you use, the more gunk you will have to deal with. I've read that using more than 2% sucralose is simply "too sweet," but it's all in eye, or perhaps the mouth, of the beholder, isn't it? I regularly use 2.8%-3% sucralose in my ADV; yes it gunks like a mad mofo, but it's sweet enough to suit me. Anything over about 3.2% sucralose, I find "too sweet" -- but there are probably those who like it that sweet.

Andria

 

[zdawk]

No, don't use the ones meant for baking and such as there are added chemicals that we really don't need in our juices. We purchase sweeteners from our flavor vendors, Bull City Vapor, ECig Express, and others.

Sweet~ (see what I did there), I got some sweetener from bull city and it's made a big difference in the recipes I've used it in. It seems to help with the shake and vape potential of a recipe. I Only a week into the whole DIY gig and it's proven a lot easier than I ever thought it would be! Sooo much money I could have saved by doing this earlier... lol!

 

[Teresa P]

Sweet~ (see what I did there), I got some sweetener from bull city and it's made a big difference in the recipes I've used it in. It seems to help with the shake and vape potential of a recipe. I Only a week into the whole DIY gig and it's proven a lot easier than I ever thought it would be! Sooo much money I could have saved by doing this earlier... lol!

 

[jambi]

Had some time today to mix some testers.

Made 2% of Sucralose (at a standard 10 PG:1 Sucralose ratio), and 2% of TFA Ethyl Maltol.

For me, the clear winner is Sucralose.

Sucralose tasted like table sugar (duh). It's light and bright. Too much and it'll really take over. After trying 2%, I would back down to 0.5%-1%.

I was let down by Ethyl Maltol (EM). EM had a brown sugar taste at 2%. It had more body than Sucralose, but its more for a baked pastry application. People also say that it tastes like cotton candy at higher percentages. I taste brown sugar. I'd use EM at 0.5%-1% for certain recipes that I'd need a darker sweetner for baked cake stuff (not candy).

Experimentation is always key.

My general rule of thumb...When I want to add sweetness, I use Sweetener (sucralose). When I want to enhance, make dominant, or otherwise modify the sweetness in other flavors, I use (very small amounts of) EM.

I don't consider EM interchangeable with sweetener. In fact, I don't find EM to be very sweet at all, on its own. Actually, I don't really consider either EM or Sweetener as "flavors" on their own. They're enhancers, in the same class as Smooth, Sour, AP, etc.

I have many recipes from a certain gentleman that call for as much as 8% sucralose. I've always gotten away with using 1/2 of what his recipes call for. I've left the sucralose out entirely and still like the results, so sweet is a very personal preference.

It's also a more flexible enhancer than EM. Too much EM will totally ruin a recipe.

I consider marshmallow somewhere between a flavor and a background enhancer. On its own it's pretty boring. Yes, it's sweet, but there's other stuff going on with it as well. I use it like I'd use marshmallows, to impart thick, fluffy, sticky, non-dairy sweetness. Yeah, that's marshmallow...it binds other flavors into gooey sticky sweetness. Just remember that with marshmallow you are also Adding Sweetness. Too much of it and everything kind of degenerates into a cloyingly thick sticky gooey mess.

If I want simple dairy sweetness (free of vanilla and other flavors), I use FA Meringue or CAP Sweet Cream. Have yet to find a whipped cream that doesn't taste strange to me.

 

[anavidfan]

Ditto on most of the replies... I use mostly or all VG so its sweet enough for me.

I did get some marshmallow once, was trying to get a coffee for a friend and I that occasionally like a latte . The marshmallow made it a tad sweeter, but it also made the coils gunk up.

As I come along with vaping, and DIY, Ive found I enjoy real light flavors. I make most of mine with 1 to 3% flavor. The only DIY I use up to 40% extract are my tobacco NET DIY.

 

[PatheticMr.]

If a recipe calls for sweetener as a 'necessity' then I tend to go for sucralose. However, the more I've used it, the more I dislike it.

Like others have said, EM really mutes everything for me too. Tbh, I don't even find a mix with EM to be sweeter than without.

I can taste sucralose - or at least feels it. It gives a sort of oily effect for me (I can't quite find another way to describe it but I can feel it on my lips).

+1 for FA marshmallow - this actually sweetens a mix and doesn't have any negative effects on other flavours (that I've noticed so far).

 

[suprtrkr]

I tend to use TFA "Sweetener," which is sucralose in PG.

 

[MagicJosh]

Sucralose mutes flavor in most blends be careful how you you add to your mix.

 

[AndriaD]

Sucralose mutes flavor in most blends be careful how you you add to your mix.

My experience is exactly the opposite -- sweetener makes a flavor really POP. A lot of bought ejuice, I really couldn't taste at all... till I added a bit of sucralose to it, then suddenly... WOW!

Andria

 

[Khassy]

My experience is exactly the opposite -- sweetener makes a flavor really POP. A lot of bought ejuice, I really couldn't taste at all... till I added a bit of sucralose to it, then suddenly... WOW!

Andria

That's been my experience as well. Some are pretty blah, but add a little sucralose and they suddenly improve.

 

[AndriaD]

That's been my experience as well. Some are pretty blah, but add a little sucralose and they suddenly improve.

I think it might be because the area of the tongue that perceives sweet is right at the tip, which is the area that vapor hits first, when you vape MtL... or maybe even the other way, I dunno, I've tried DL vaping only once, it about killed me with coughing, so I never tried it again.

Andria

 

[Khassy]

I think it might be because the area of the tongue that perceives sweet is right at the tip, which is the area that vapor hits first, when you vape MtL... or maybe even the other way, I dunno, I've tried DL vaping only once, it about killed me with coughing, so I never tried it again.

Andria

I mostly DL these days, which is why I think I need stronger flavors than the tiny percentages in most recipes. Or maybe it's just me in general.

 

[AndriaD]

I mostly DL these days, which is why I think I need stronger flavors than the tiny percentages in most recipes. Or maybe it's just me in general.

I can certainly understand needing more flavor for DL, since it kinda bypasses the mouth entirely -- I can only tolerate that powdery shit Advair because it mostly hits the throat, not the tongue, and I gargle and rinse well after using it -- same for Ventolin, though mercifully it's not powder; I really don't even taste that anymore, I've been using it for so long (about 32 yrs). Those are the only two things I can or ever will inhale direct-lung, and sometimes even they kinda choke me up.

Andria

 

[MagicJosh]

My experience is exactly the opposite -- sweetener makes a flavor really POP. A lot of bought ejuice, I really couldn't taste at all... till I added a bit of sucralose to it, then suddenly... WOW!

Andria

If I lick the e-juice it is strong. But when I vape it I get muteness. I started using less to some. Some ejuice it works well in like Lemons and cheesecakes, blueberry's. Dont get me wrong If i can drink e-juice I would always use Sucralose.

 

[AndriaD]

If I lick the e-juice it is strong. But when I vape it I get muteness. I started using less to some. Some ejuice it works well in like Lemons and cheesecakes, blueberry's. Dont get me wrong If i can drink e-juice I would always use Sucralose.

Well, I don't actually use very much anymore; my strawberry & cream has come from 2.5% down to .35% in the two and a half yrs I've been making it -- apparently my sense of "sweet" has woken up much faster than my other tastes! But any ejuice that seems really "blah"... I add a bit of sucralose to it, and it really wakes it up.

And I have never consumed ejuice directly; the mere thought kinda grosses me out! When my atty malfunctions and I get ejuice in my mouth in a non-vapor form, I have to spit and rinse PRONTO! Plus, it kinda burns the tongue; I guess that's the nicotine, and now that I use only 3mg, also the Flash I add to get more TH.

Andria

 

[MagicJosh]

*

Well, I don't actually use very much anymore; my strawberry & cream has come from 2.5% down to .35% in the two and a half yrs I've been making it -- apparently my sense of "sweet" has woken up much faster than my other tastes! But any ejuice that seems really "blah"... I add a bit of sucralose to it, and it really wakes it up.

And I have never consumed ejuice directly; the mere thought kinda grosses me out! When my atty malfunctions and I get ejuice in my mouth in a non-vapor form, I have to spit and rinse PRONTO! Plus, it kinda burns the tongue; I guess that's the nicotine, and now that I use only 3mg, also the Flash I add to get more TH.

Andria

I agree with you. It does wake up the juice. But on bakery's I found that it sometimes mutes it. Maybe I have vapers tongue.

 

[MagicJosh]

And I have never consumed ejuice directly; the mere thought kinda grosses me out! When my atty malfunctions and I get ejuice in my mouth in a non-vapor form, I have to spit and rinse PRONTO! Plus, it kinda burns the tongue; I guess that's the nicotine, and now that I use only 3mg, also the Flash I add to get more TH.

I love when it sprays in my mouth just a little bit. OMG I put less cotton in my RTA's so it will spray a litle ejuice in my mouth. But the bad part it leaks a little.

 

[AndriaD]

I love when it sprays in my mouth just a little bit. OMG I put less cotton in my RTA's so it will spray a litle ejuice in my mouth. But the bad part it leaks a little.

Ugh, I can't abide the greasy feel of it, that's why I have to spit and rinse.. plus to get the "peppery" burn off my tongue. I have a lot of digestive issues, so I wouldn't wanna risk nicotine going into my stomach, that seems like a bad case of nausea just waiting to happen.

But that greasy feel... When I first started vaping, that was one of the hardest aspects for me to get used to -- even though I used a tobacco flavor then, which uses very little flavoring, I was constantly wiping my lips to get the greasy-feeling residue off, just from the vapor itself. I'm used to it now, and I even enjoy it, since I use a sweet juice now, but at first... I found it very off-putting, since cigarettes don't leave anything like that on your lips.

Andria

 

[MagicJosh]

Ugh, I can't abide the greasy feel of it, that's why I have to spit and rinse.. plus to get the "peppery" burn off my tongue. I have a lot of digestive issues, so I wouldn't wanna risk nicotine going into my stomach, that seems like a bad case of nausea just waiting to happen.

But that greasy feel... When I first started vaping, that was one of the hardest aspects for me to get used to -- even though I used a tobacco flavor then, which uses very little flavoring, I was constantly wiping my lips to get the greasy-feeling residue off, just from the vapor itself. I'm used to it now, and I even enjoy it, since I use a sweet juice now, but at first... I found it very off-putting, since cigarettes don't leave anything like that on your lips.

Andria

We all love to vape our own way! Im just happy I learned to DIY. I make new e-juice everyday. I saved all my old Zamplebox bottles! Thank God. I use the 6mg pre mixed nicotine Max VG from Nicoriver and Its very nice! Quality.. I hate getting e-juice on my hands! OMG OMG!

 

[serversurfer]

I dunno, I've tried about all of them but Inawera. And I really don't know why I don't have Inawera, since I have so many of their other fruit flavors and love them.

I make something called Sweet Cherry Pipe Tea with 5% Cherry Blossom Tea and 10% Sweet Pipe Tobacco (VG70 overall), both from Liquid Barn. Even on its own though, the cherry blossom is quite good; very delicate.

 

[VapingCactus]

I just wanted to add something here because it was never mentioned but i am a big fan of erythritol, seems the cleanest sweet taste ive found!

 

[Hillbilly Pig]

Don't know if you're still interested, but I like to use FA marshmallow, TFA sweet tea, TFA pineapple, and FA pear in whatever it they will work best with. Most creams get marshmallow if I want it, most non citrus get pear, citrus get pineapple and sometimes pear, and teas get sweet tea and/or pineapple if it's a citrus tea.

 

[ramelbrendan]

Stevia does not mute like EM.
And it doesn't have the "diet pop" aftertaste like Sucralose.
Some Stevia types do have an aftertaste, especially if using too much.
As an example: I'm using 2 drops to sweeten a whole cup of coffee, and that's around what, 200ml? (just guessing).
So even 1 drop in 30ml should be pretty dang sweet.
Best to dilute the Stevia at 10%, or 50% even, to help control it better.
Other sweeteners are usually being used in percents, .5% = around 3 drops?
3 drops of Sucralose is also very sweet, how many drops for a cup of Java?
Even 1 drop is super sweet, just sayin, if you use any sweeteners, go easy with them.
I just can't fathom using the amount of sweetener being used in some of the recipes I've seen.

Splenda has 1 sugar molecule removed (from Sugar), by using Chlorine, don't think I'd wanna vape that.
I prefer using Brown Sugar, Marshmallow, Meringue, Sweet Cream, etc.
They usually help more than hurt as far as changing the flavor, just don't use 15%.

Just my humble opinion as you will need to experiment with these to find your own preferences I think.

How do you dilute powdered sucralose with pg as a 1:1 ratio? How many grams of sucralose and ml of pg? Thanks!