The Atheists Thread...A place for Logical, Rational and Scientific thinking with facts

[wally]

Don't know. We will never know how everything started. You can make up some imaginary being to fill that void of unknowning, emptiness, and anything else that can't be easily explained all you want, but it doesn't make him real and it doesn't make it truth.

See you just proved him right. Your mind went blank and you could not come up with a simple sentence.!!! I have tried this with hundreds of people over the years and so far all have failed. Also it simply takes something to make something, something can not be created by nothing. Albert Einstein tried this and his final conclusion is that there is a creator, Nikola Tesla according to Einstein was the worlds smartest person and he stated there had to be a creator.

 

[zaroba]

Sorry, but just because he was religious and smart does not make him correct in thinking there was a creator. Just because I could not think instantly of how the entire universe was created does not mean I proved 'him' right nor does it prove that there is a god. Your entire basis of opinion is based on "prove that I am wrong, even though I can't prove that I am right"

Simply saying 'because god wants it that way' for anything you can't think of is a sorry excuse. It's like saying 'just because' when you can't think of a valid reason but are too stubborn to admit that you don't know.
Why do bad things happen? god wants it that way
Why don't we know? god wants it that way.
Why does big tobacco care more about money then our health? god wants it that way.

See how simple that is? lol.
Now if you actually try to make an effort to provide VALID and REAL reasons for the above questions, then you actually better somebodies understanding, you improve their mental reasoning, and help spread that good info because they can tell other people. Or you could simply be honest and say "I don't know" so people respect you more.

 

[zaroba]

For all of eternity the great monkey sat in limbo, bored, with nothing to do.
Then one day he got annoyed at being bored. He belched, giving birth to the universe. But it was empty, so he pooped into his hand. It was a try lumpy poop, a turd that fell into many pieces as it exited his rectum. He threw it into the universe, giving birth to solid bodies of matter. But it was still dark, he pooped again, this time it was a hot creamy poop. It burned a bit as it left his rectum. He flung it into the dark universe, creating stars. The universe was now light and had celestial bodies. He then played with the poop, lining them up into shapes and figures, creating galaxies and solar systems. for he was an intelligent monkey. But, he wanted more, his nose itched, so he stuck his middle finger up his nose and scratched around a bit. He pulled out a lumpy dry piece of snot and flicked it into the universe. He created Haley's Commit. His nose still itched, this caused him to sneeze. A lot of snot shot out of his mouth, creating more commits. The great monkey was please with his work, but he wanted more. He picked threw his fur and found some bugs. He placed these on a planet, giving birth to mankind. He found more bugs and placed them as well, giving birth to all the other animals on the planet. Man looked up at him and said 'it is too dry here'. So the great monkey stood up, legs spread wide, and pissed on the planet, creating oceans and rivers. Piss soaked into the soil and plant life grew because the great monkey had a bladder infection. Man bowed down and worshiped the great monkey, they built a temple and called it 'The Temple of Monkeyanity'. Man elected a savior to lead the practice of Monkeyanity and called him The Great Zookeeper.


Hey, look, I just created a religion
And you know what? You can't prove it wrong any more then you can prove Christianity right. lol

 

[wally]

All I see is side stepping the fact you can not see what God said you could not see. Lets face it he said you could not and you can't. So this simply proves him right.

 

[zaroba]

And all I see is you falling back to the same "because god wants it that way" excuse.

 

[wally]

You could not come up with one simple sentence on how he became. Just like he said. Explain to me especially your self why your minds goes blank. Why? Forget everything yay or nay and tell me why the mind goes blank on only this ONE subject.

 

[zaroba]

Simple: Because I don't know. Pretty sure I said that the first time you asked. lol
And once again you are just using the 'because god wants it that way' excuse for something that is unknown.

That is not prove of existence, it is just an excuse.

 

[wally]

OH but it does think about it

 

[zaroba]

Think about what? Making excuses?

Out in the public, that just indicates somebody being too stubborn to admit they are wrong.
Like when a boss wants you to do something on the job and the only reason is 'because I said so'

 

[wally]

I was not wrong what I said was true and you proved it. You just won't admit it to your self.

 

[zaroba]

Sorry, but just because you believe it doesn't make it true.

 

[zaroba]

If I may sidestep a little and ask you a direct question:
Why are you against this topic?

You don't see non-religious people attacking the prayer topic, do you?
Yet, here you are attacking people who don't follow your religion, the same way people attack ecig users for not smoking cigs.

 

[Hermit]

That there are things we don't know does not prove the existence of god.
Faith, by definition, does not require proof.
Faith is real (as is love), and that's still true even if god doesn't exist.
So I don't see why someone of faith would need to prove that god exists

 

[wally]

What who said anything about religion this subject was about God or a creator.

 

[zaroba]

hmm, you are correct.

Ok then, Which god or creator?

Every religion has their own that they say is the one true one. So how can any god be looked at as the being the one and only? The god of Hinduism has just as much a chance of being the true god as the one that Christians believe in. The Greek gods have just as much a chance of being the real gods as those of the Chinese.

 

[kelli]

Um, religion and politics are pretty much guaranteed to offend. I don't see how this thread is going to be any different. Even if, I would hope, "A place for Logical, Rational and Scientific thinking with facts" shouldn't be exclusive to atheists.

Anyone here like Pikkiwoki, the Papua New Guinean mud god? A pig and all the coconuts you can carry?

http://www.27bslash6.com/A17.html

i know you!

 

[fq06]

Wally, I don't think "just cuz" will convince any atheist that a god exists. You can try till you're blue in the face and take as many angles as you want but until you have something factual... you're spinning your wheels.

I don't know if there is or isn't as I can't find any evidence to prove either side. I just live a honest life and do onto others as I would want done to me.

Is there a heaven or hell? Don't know and the people who do know are dead and can't tell us.

I thought this was an interesting thread when I saw it yesterday, what could come of it? Nothing really.

You could have atheists discussing a lack of proof or maybe how silly religious people are. And then you will have religious people posting things that they feel would prove to a non believer that a god exists.

Franciscan's thread is a little different from the title at least, I haven't visited but it would seem that it is about prayer. Maybe for people that need it, or cool new prayers that someone came up with... don't know.

But I can't imagine an atheist would post in there trying to convince Franciscan that god doesn't exist.

Anyway, carry on folks, this trying to prove that something exists to a group of people that in general need to see, touch, feel, to be convinced has been entertaining. Really, especially the part about there is a god because someone's mind goes blank lol.

 

[vaperature]

 

[Giraut]

This thread is well on track to becoming one of these huge megathreads full of wordy bromide, in which nobody can agree on anything by definition, from which nothing of value is learned, the content of which has zero relevance to the forum it's hosted on, and that'll go Godwin sooner or later.

*sigh*

 

[anendeloflorien]

I'm a scientist first. I believe in evidence over superstition. I don't even like labeling myself an atheist because I'm open to the idea of the existence of a "god" like entity.

However, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and the only "evidence" supporting any individual religions claims of a deity are their own texts and feelings. That's circular logic at its best and is not proof of anything. I was raised in a strictly religious (Protestant Christian) home so I'm definitely biased

 

[kelli]

all i know for sure is if there truly is a God, he must be perpetually amused by us.

 

[zaroba]

I'm a scientist first. I believe in evidence over superstition. I don't even like labeling myself an atheist because I'm open to the idea of the existence of a "god" like entity.

You might be Agnostic then.
Somebody who believes that nothing can be known about the existence of a god outside of physical proof. Thus, you have neither faith, nor disbelief in a god.

I am the same way. I wont say god(s) *can't* exist. But nor will I accept that god(s) do exist without undebatable proof.

 

[zaroba]

Hey, this isn't the place to post pictures of yourself

 

[vaperature]

Hey, this isn't the place to post pictures of yourself

You make a joke but in truth I probably don't look much different than that.

 

[Celtic Fog]

Oh, he's fine.. can post and or saying anything he wants.. I fought and am disabled so he can do exactly that..

You fought in the American Revolution??? You fought and are disabled, possibly due to collecting a pay check that came with a heavy consequence. Im so fucking sick of modern soldiers using the "gave you the rights you have and protected them for you" bullshit speech. Deal with your sins like a man, if you have trouble sleeping at night, thats because murder is heavy on ones conscience....But you did not give me these rights, nor did you do anything to protect them for us.

 

[Hermit]

If I may sidestep a little and ask you a direct question:
Why are you against this topic?

You don't see non-religious people attacking the prayer topic, do you?
Yet, here you are attacking people who don't follow your religion, the same way people attack ecig users for not smoking cigs.

To be fair, I don't see much parallel between this thread and the prayer thread. @franciscan didn't open that thread with a post stressing differences, he's just doing his thing for those that appreciate it. There isn't a parallel to prayer in atheism, nor any defined roles such as minister/father/whatever to offer general pastoral care, so (this being the internet) any pro-atheism thread will descend into religious debate, which in turn descends into a pantomime argument... pointless.

 

[MKPM]

OK so did your mind go blank did you try. can you think of what makes it rain, how plastic in made, how a camera works well I bet you could. Now lets try something here. Lets just say you think a creator named God exists. You think how he became and write it down here and we will make it simple one sentence will do.

God was not begotten nor made, from Him all things came to be, and because of this, we call him God...which is "I am" and nothing more. <<<one sentence.

 

[MKPM]

To be fair, I don't see much parallel between this thread and the prayer thread. @franciscan didn't open that thread with a post stressing differences, he's just doing his thing for those that appreciate it. There isn't a parallel to prayer in atheism, nor any defined roles such as minister/father/whatever to offer general pastoral care, so (this being the internet) any pro-atheism thread will descend into religious debate, which in turn descends into a pantomime argument... pointless.

THIS^^^. We were all friends with a common passion...VAPING. It would be tragic to see something of this nature damage that. Science and logic are necessary in the human experience. Morals and rationale are intertwined as we find when studying the Greek philosophers such as Aristotle in his "Nicomachean Ethics".

 

[freemind]

I believe in God, but far from the way ANYONE that holds faith or belief in a religion.

I do believe their is a creator. I also believe that creator made everything, good or evil. That this creator is NOT my protector, that the creator is NOT a provider to me.
I do believe there is a place for souls, beyond earth. I do believe in a heaven and a hell.

I really don't have issue with faith or lack of it. So long as neither side shoves their feelings and beliefs down my throat.

 

[MKPM]

For anyone that is TRULY interested....in my thread I have eloquently defined by MY observance...the difference between faith and religion. Even though I am clergy, I actually loathe religion as a whole, as corrupted by generations of men that seem to be more interested in some narcissistic need to be lauded.

 

[freemind]

For anyone that is TRULY interested....in my thread I have eloquently defined by MY observance...the difference between faith and religion. Even though I am clergy, I actually loathe religion as a whole, as corrupted by generations of men that seem to be more interested in some narcissistic need to be lauded.

You and me both, brother.
MONEY and power are the two evil roots, of people.

 

[wally]

God was not begotten nor made, from Him all things came to be, and because of this, we call him God...which is "I am" and nothing more. <<<one sentence.

Never said he was made! God said he always was and always will be no man will ever know how he became..

 

[fq06]

Was that a conversation you had with him? Or it was written by someone at some point in history?

 

[Midniteoyl]

You fought in the American Revolution??? You fought and are disabled, possibly due to collecting a pay check that came with a heavy consequence. Im so fucking sick of modern soldiers using the "gave you the rights you have and protected them for you" bullshit speech. Deal with your sins like a man, if you have trouble sleeping at night, thats because murder is heavy on ones conscience....But you did not give me these rights, nor did you do anything to protect them for us.

OK... But I didnt say I gave you that right.

However, my mindset to help protect it was strong enough for me to join.. (It wasnt about a 'paycheck' - and that really, really offends me that you would say that.) So, since I believe in those freedoms strong enough to have put my life on the line to protect them, I will NOT sit here and try to say what people can and cannot post, say, feel, etc...

I have, and still am, defending your right to say what you think, even if its that I joined to 'get a paycheck' and 'sinned'..

 

[Midniteoyl]

To be fair, I don't see much parallel between this thread and the prayer thread. @franciscan didn't open that thread with a post stressing differences, he's just doing his thing for those that appreciate it. There isn't a parallel to prayer in atheism, nor any defined roles such as minister/father/whatever to offer general pastoral care, so (this being the internet) any pro-atheism thread will descend into religious debate, which in turn descends into a pantomime argument... pointless.

Agreed..

 

[MKPM]

Never said he was made! God said he always was and always will be no man will ever know how he became..

That was not directed necessarily at anyone in particular. But is DID satisfy the once sentence challenge.

 

[bobsyeruncle]

i know you! View attachment 13091

Hi, kelli. We were wondering what happened there ...

 

[kelli]

Hi, kelli. We were wondering what happened there ...

there was an unfortunate incident.

 

[BigNasty]

You fought in the American Revolution??? You fought and are disabled, possibly due to collecting a pay check that came with a heavy consequence. Im so fucking sick of modern soldiers using the "gave you the rights you have and protected them for you" bullshit speech. Deal with your sins like a man, if you have trouble sleeping at night, thats because murder is heavy on ones conscience....But you did not give me these rights, nor did you do anything to protect them for us.

I served and swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, I did it as a service to my fellow citizens the paycheck was laughable at best. While it was not a war zone term of service it was in a time of war, my only sins it was during the Clinton admin.
Please do not confuse the defense with granting of rights. We Veterans did not bestow or grant you shit, our founding fathers did based off of the Magna Carta, we just defend those rights as outlined in the Constitution.

 

[bobsyeruncle]

there was an unfortunate incident. View attachment 13104

You just disappeared but all of the trolls were still around, posting unscathed. WTF.

 

[kelli]

You just disappeared but all of the trolls were still around, posting unscathed. WTF.

i am not a darling of the mods there. i question(ed) their authority and they hate that!

 

[bobsyeruncle]

Yeah, the rules there seem to suit thin-skinned moderators.

 

[Celtic Fog]

OK... But I didnt say I gave you that right.

However, my mindset to help protect it was strong enough for me to join.. (It wasnt about a 'paycheck' - and that really, really offends me that you would say that.) So, since I believe in those freedoms strong enough to have put my life on the line to protect them, I will NOT sit here and try to say what people can and cannot post, say, feel, etc...

I have, and still am, defending your right to say what you think, even if its that I joined to 'get a paycheck' and 'sinned'..

Your not defending my rights from a single person. Nor do you defend the ways of the people. Our constitution has been under fire here at home for the last 8 years, where were you on that?

Here is a list of the first 10 amendments to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights:

The First Amendment - states that Congress shall make no law preventing the establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise. Also protected are freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and the right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The Second Amendment - protects citizen's right to bear arms.

The Third Amendment - prevents the government from placing troops in private homes. This was a real problem during the American Revolutionary War.

The Fourth Amendment - this amendment prevents the government from unreasonable search and seizure of the property of US citizens. It requires the government to have a warrant that was issued by a judge and based on probable cause.

The Fifth Amendment - The Fifth Amendment is famous for people saying "I'll take the Fifth". This gives people the right to choose not to testify in court if they feel their own testimony will incriminate themselves.

In addition this amendment protects citizens from being subject to criminal prosecution and punishment without due process. It also prevents people from being tried for the same crime twice. The amendment also establishes the power of eminent domain, which means that private property can not be seized for public use without just compensation.

The Sixth Amendment - guarantees a speedy trial by a jury of one's peers. Also, people accused are to be informed of the crimes with which they are charged and have the right to confront the witnesses brought by the government. The amendment also provides the accused the right to compel testimony from witnesses, and to legal representation (meaning the government has to provide a lawyer).

The Seventh Amendment - provides that civil cases also be tried by jury.

The Eighth Amendment - prohibits excessive bail, excessive fines, and cruel and unusual punishments.

The Ninth Amendment - states that the list of rights described in the Constitution is not exhaustive, and that the people still have all the rights that are not listed.

The Tenth Amendment - gives all powers not specifically given to the United States government in the Constitution, to either the states or to the people.


Ever since our entry in the Iraqi and Afghan war zones. These Rights have been broken, trampled and torn apart...Great job protecting them.

 

[MKPM]

Shit just got real.

 

[BigNasty]

I could point out the fault in your logic and blame but you would not listen to the truth.
You want to level that blame cannon at the wrong admin and presnut.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Your not defending my rights from a single person. Nor do you defend the ways of the people. Our constitution has been under fire here at home for the last 8 years, where were you on that?

Here is a list of the first 10 amendments to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights:

The First Amendment - states that Congress shall make no law preventing the establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise. Also protected are freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and the right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The Second Amendment - protects citizen's right to bear arms.

The Third Amendment - prevents the government from placing troops in private homes. This was a real problem during the American Revolutionary War.

The Fourth Amendment - this amendment prevents the government from unreasonable search and seizure of the property of US citizens. It requires the government to have a warrant that was issued by a judge and based on probable cause.

The Fifth Amendment - The Fifth Amendment is famous for people saying "I'll take the Fifth". This gives people the right to choose not to testify in court if they feel their own testimony will incriminate themselves.

In addition this amendment protects citizens from being subject to criminal prosecution and punishment without due process. It also prevents people from being tried for the same crime twice. The amendment also establishes the power of eminent domain, which means that private property can not be seized for public use without just compensation.

The Sixth Amendment - guarantees a speedy trial by a jury of one's peers. Also, people accused are to be informed of the crimes with which they are charged and have the right to confront the witnesses brought by the government. The amendment also provides the accused the right to compel testimony from witnesses, and to legal representation (meaning the government has to provide a lawyer).

The Seventh Amendment - provides that civil cases also be tried by jury.

The Eighth Amendment - prohibits excessive bail, excessive fines, and cruel and unusual punishments.

The Ninth Amendment - states that the list of rights described in the Constitution is not exhaustive, and that the people still have all the rights that are not listed.

The Tenth Amendment - gives all powers not specifically given to the United States government in the Constitution, to either the states or to the people.


Ever since our entry in the Iraqi and Afghan war zones. These Rights have been broken, trampled and torn apart...Great job protecting them.

What?

What??


Ok man... Only YOU are defending our rights... I gotcha. Thanks..

 

[MKPM]

please stop all of this...please?

 

[Celtic Fog]

What?

What??


Ok man... Only YOU are defending our rights... I gotcha. Thanks..

go ahead and back peddle bro....

 

[OBDave]

Well, you know Hitler wasn't big on religion either...h/t @Giraut, I just had to...

I had such high hopes for this thread, or at least the idea of it (until the intentionally provocative first post, that is), thought it could be a great complement to @franciscan's...alas, not to be.

I feel like the only thing that's not up for debate is the existence of a power beyond our grasp - call it nature, science, one god or another (or several), what have you. The key thing is that the nature of that power is beyond our grasp, so there isn't a person alive that can speak with authority on what lies above or beyond. Perhaps there are dead people who could, but most of us can't talk to them, and it's certainly debatable whether the people who claim they can are exceptional or just delusional.

I'll just stand aside and be happy to let the science folks continue to try to understand the powers that be through their studies, and to let the faith folks continue to try to understand through their own meditations and the teachings of their elders (though I find anything that's been re-interpreted by multiple generations of men, who are at their root highly corruptable, suspect at best). And I'll gladly listen to both sides and take what I can from them, all the while striving to live the best life I can just because I think that's the right thing to do. If I die and find out that the "higher power," for lack of a better explanation, is indeed a god or series of gods intent upon passing judgment on humans after their term on earth is complete, I can only hope he/she/they will respect my good intentions and best efforts to do right by others rather than condemn my failure to pick and adhere to the proper brand of faith during my time here.

That is all. <lurk>

 

[MKPM]

Well, you know Hitler wasn't big on religion either...h/t @Giraut, I just had to...

I had such high hopes for this thread, or at least the idea of it (until the intentionally provocative first post, that is), thought it could be a great complement to @franciscan's...alas, not to be.

I feel like the only thing that's not up for debate is the existence of a power beyond our grasp - call it nature, science, one god or another (or several), what have you. The key thing is that the nature of that power is beyond our grasp, so there isn't a person alive that can speak with authority on what lies above or beyond. Perhaps there are dead people who could, but most of us can't talk to them, and it's certainly debatable whether the people who claim they can are exceptional or just delusional.

I'll just stand aside and be happy to let the science folks continue to try to understand the powers that be through their studies, and to let the faith folks continue to try to understand through their own meditations and the teachings of their elders (though I find anything that's been re-interpreted by multiple generations of men, who are at their root highly corruptable, suspect at best). And I'll gladly listen to both sides and take what I can from them, all the while striving to live the best life I can just because I think that's the right thing to do. If I die and find out that the "higher power," for lack of a better explanation, is indeed a god or series of gods intent upon passing judgment on humans after their term on earth is complete, I can only hope he/she/they will respect my good intentions and best efforts to do right by others rather than condemn my failure to pick and adhere to the proper brand of faith during my time here.

That is all. <lurk>

That was my hope as well....hence my ready praise for it.
That would beg the question...."Was that the REAL intent?" Or something more along the line of censorship...as if something quite provocative such as this would provoke that response....thus proving a rather vacuous point. But as always, I am quite open to being wrong.