Okay ..so this thread is for experinced vapers and particularlly you low sub-ohm vapers, but all experinced vapers to share with the new folks the things that will cause dangerous accidents vaping on a mech mod..I just got through answering alot of questions someone has had about vaping on mech mods, and I'm aware of a certain undercurrent that mechs are somehow dangerous..and a current thought is they should just be done away with and we should just let our regulated mods do our thinking for us and let them catch our mistakes and thoughtlessness...I don't agree...we get in our cars everyday and drive around and a mech mod is far safer than a car....so let's discuss things like the diffrence between a short , a hard short or thermal runaway, batteries, or anything else that you can do that will get you into trouble.
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things to avoid..if you don't want to blow yourself up with a mech.
- Thread starter pulsevape
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piss off.DONT USE MECHS
THATS MY ONLY ADVICE!
blah blah...fuck off and stop trolling the thread.Removed
Look . There is nothing wrong with using mechs, PROVIDED the user is knowledgeable and smart enough to use them. It's not the sellers job to quiz the buyer if they are smart enough to use them safely. We have far too many idiots buying them and not knowing a damn thing other than they want to "blow clouds bro".
It's silly and stupid what some new people are doing. And I can tell you the idiots that are doing it are emulating some other cloud jockey that they know. Probably some tool who barely has enough intelligence to vape themselves, encouraging other people to be retards like themselves.
Mech safety is as important as gun safety. Both will kill or maim you if you don't follow the rules. We have a zillion threads here discussing SAFTEY and there are as many YouTube videos to educate people. It's not really like we NEED another thread about it. Rehashing a rehash.
It's silly and stupid what some new people are doing. And I can tell you the idiots that are doing it are emulating some other cloud jockey that they know. Probably some tool who barely has enough intelligence to vape themselves, encouraging other people to be retards like themselves.
Mech safety is as important as gun safety. Both will kill or maim you if you don't follow the rules. We have a zillion threads here discussing SAFTEY and there are as many YouTube videos to educate people. It's not really like we NEED another thread about it. Rehashing a rehash.
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Glad you started this!!!
It amazes me that people don't equate a 20a battery with what 20a of current can actually do.
Better yet, I've even seen YouTube reviewers (some well known) using badly wrapped batteries... Way to set an example guys!
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
It amazes me that people don't equate a 20a battery with what 20a of current can actually do.
Better yet, I've even seen YouTube reviewers (some well known) using badly wrapped batteries... Way to set an example guys!
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Last edited:
f1r3b1rd
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Hope you don't mind but I'm going to leave a piece from my blog on ohm's law here
Watts- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate applied power
Volts- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate pressure applied to current to create power
Resistance- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate resistance applied to the current to create pressure
amperage- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate current flow
Ohms Law
I have written about ohms law more times than I care to say, however, I am going to try my best to simplify this as much as possible.
Think of a circuit as a hose. The water flowing through the hose is the electricity or current(amps). The pressure pushing the water is the voltage. Now pinch the hose. Pinching the hose is adding Resistance. The pressure building up is voltage and the current flow has now decreased because you applied resistance.
Now if you take that Voltage or pressure and Multiply it by the Current or Amperage you are given your power or wattage measurement.
The problem comes in when you have a 20a battery but are trying to force it to give you more current than it has to offer.
All 4 parts that make a circuit happen are happening in conjunction with each other and as an added note to the beauty of it, whatever energy is put in must be equal to the energy coming out. What this means is that all you need are two bits of information to determine the others.
Ohms law is basically the relation of those bits of information. If you multiply the resistance applied by the current you are then given your voltage or force applied.
For ease of use the forumulas are
V=IR and P=VI
when:
V= voltage
I=current (amps)
P=power (watts)
R= resistance(ohms)
Why does ohms law matter? Batteries!
Why do you see some of us harp on ohms law? Because batteries. A battery is a limited space to hold energy. This means that we have to work within our limits. You don’t want to overdraw on your batteries. If you do bad things can happen, such as venting a battery or causing a battery to explode.
Make sure you use a battery with a 20 amp limit, meaning that If we assume the voltage after the spike from charging to be between 3.7 and 3.8 volts then the most we want to push the battery is about 75watts with a 0.18 ohm load at best. I try and preach that we stick with 20A batteries from known manufacturers. This essentially narrows down to: Samsung 25r, Sony vtc4 AND vtc5, and LGhe4.
What if my mod takes two batteries? In the even that your mod uses multiple batteries, use batteries purchased together from the same manufacturer and keep them together. We call that “married pairs” when one stops working replace them both.
better ohms law explanation
Ohm's Law - The basics - Ohms Law Formulas Explained to save you time
When choosing a battery for your mod it is important to make sure that the battery can handle the current that you are pulling from the battery. Also ensure you know the limitations of your mod per the manufacturer.
Using ohms law you can easily determine the current draw. Please see the threads authored by baditude, here in the battery section; or, myself in the beginner area.
ohms law-V = I x R Or I = V/R when I=current(amps), V=voltage, R=resistance(ohms)
So, if I need the current for a battery- I am assuming the battery at mean voltage therefore it is at 3.7v. and I am firing a 0.5 ohm resistance. Those are my two constants for the same of our math.
I would use the following as my equation:
I = 3.7v/0.5ohms
in this case I am only pulling 7.4A and 27.4 w; therefore, I want s battery that is capable of providing 7.4A safely.
admittingly, as the chart shows, most batteries can handle this. problems ome into play when people fire to far low.
NOW, lets try this with a 0.2 ohm load (coil), the voltage is the same here.
I=3.7v/0.5ohms
in this case we have 18.5amps and 68.45 w. Therefore, it is easily illustrated that the field of suitable batteries, has greatly been reduced to cells that can handle a continuous current of 20A.
The following are a list of batteries and their specs as tested by 'mooch'- a fellow vapor and accepted as a battery expert.
Watts- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate applied power
Volts- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate pressure applied to current to create power
Resistance- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate resistance applied to the current to create pressure
amperage- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate current flow
Ohms Law
I have written about ohms law more times than I care to say, however, I am going to try my best to simplify this as much as possible.
Think of a circuit as a hose. The water flowing through the hose is the electricity or current(amps). The pressure pushing the water is the voltage. Now pinch the hose. Pinching the hose is adding Resistance. The pressure building up is voltage and the current flow has now decreased because you applied resistance.
Now if you take that Voltage or pressure and Multiply it by the Current or Amperage you are given your power or wattage measurement.
The problem comes in when you have a 20a battery but are trying to force it to give you more current than it has to offer.
All 4 parts that make a circuit happen are happening in conjunction with each other and as an added note to the beauty of it, whatever energy is put in must be equal to the energy coming out. What this means is that all you need are two bits of information to determine the others.
Ohms law is basically the relation of those bits of information. If you multiply the resistance applied by the current you are then given your voltage or force applied.
For ease of use the forumulas are
V=IR and P=VI
when:
V= voltage
I=current (amps)
P=power (watts)
R= resistance(ohms)
Why does ohms law matter? Batteries!
Why do you see some of us harp on ohms law? Because batteries. A battery is a limited space to hold energy. This means that we have to work within our limits. You don’t want to overdraw on your batteries. If you do bad things can happen, such as venting a battery or causing a battery to explode.
Make sure you use a battery with a 20 amp limit, meaning that If we assume the voltage after the spike from charging to be between 3.7 and 3.8 volts then the most we want to push the battery is about 75watts with a 0.18 ohm load at best. I try and preach that we stick with 20A batteries from known manufacturers. This essentially narrows down to: Samsung 25r, Sony vtc4 AND vtc5, and LGhe4.
What if my mod takes two batteries? In the even that your mod uses multiple batteries, use batteries purchased together from the same manufacturer and keep them together. We call that “married pairs” when one stops working replace them both.
better ohms law explanation
Ohm's Law - The basics - Ohms Law Formulas Explained to save you time
When choosing a battery for your mod it is important to make sure that the battery can handle the current that you are pulling from the battery. Also ensure you know the limitations of your mod per the manufacturer.
Using ohms law you can easily determine the current draw. Please see the threads authored by baditude, here in the battery section; or, myself in the beginner area.
ohms law-V = I x R Or I = V/R when I=current(amps), V=voltage, R=resistance(ohms)
So, if I need the current for a battery- I am assuming the battery at mean voltage therefore it is at 3.7v. and I am firing a 0.5 ohm resistance. Those are my two constants for the same of our math.
I would use the following as my equation:
I = 3.7v/0.5ohms
in this case I am only pulling 7.4A and 27.4 w; therefore, I want s battery that is capable of providing 7.4A safely.
admittingly, as the chart shows, most batteries can handle this. problems ome into play when people fire to far low.
NOW, lets try this with a 0.2 ohm load (coil), the voltage is the same here.
I=3.7v/0.5ohms
in this case we have 18.5amps and 68.45 w. Therefore, it is easily illustrated that the field of suitable batteries, has greatly been reduced to cells that can handle a continuous current of 20A.
The following are a list of batteries and their specs as tested by 'mooch'- a fellow vapor and accepted as a battery expert.
Last edited:
SirRichardRear
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that's what prompted me to make this video as well. for a lot of people it's easier to watch a video of stuff explained then to read a bunch of info
Mechs in themselves are not dangerous, but there are a few BUTs.......
I learned to build my own coils etc, using a mech, still use mechs 90% of the time.
If I had to choose one cause thats all there is allowed I chose my old PAPs 2.5.
Its like the PC vs MACs thing. PC entails a certain ( yes very low these days with them following the MAC thing) amount of knowledge.
You have to know how to save things and either let it send to the pre-programmed place or where YOU want it to go.
You can actually go in and do stuff to it to fine tune it. I could go on....
Macs are more for those who dont want think about what, where or even add memory or change the harddrive..... Its for those who just want to use it and not have to think about it much.
Thats how I see reg vs mech.
Now Im going to get beat with tomatos from all the MAC users and get hate PMs , sorry .........
I learned to build my own coils etc, using a mech, still use mechs 90% of the time.
If I had to choose one cause thats all there is allowed I chose my old PAPs 2.5.
Its like the PC vs MACs thing. PC entails a certain ( yes very low these days with them following the MAC thing) amount of knowledge.
You have to know how to save things and either let it send to the pre-programmed place or where YOU want it to go.
You can actually go in and do stuff to it to fine tune it. I could go on....
Macs are more for those who dont want think about what, where or even add memory or change the harddrive..... Its for those who just want to use it and not have to think about it much.
Thats how I see reg vs mech.
Now Im going to get beat with tomatos from all the MAC users and get hate PMs , sorry .........
Dayum, Talk about indecision.....where does this go....on one hand we have a troll area (yes I am talking about you, EJ) on the other hand , Pulse and others raise some really good points, so after a bit of thought I decided to put it.....drum roll please.......In Mech mod area, I'd sticky it, but due to EJ's over-zealous posts lately .....meh, it just ruins it for everyone else.
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Hey guy's, I know certain members here have had their issues but let's not shit all over this thread. It has some valuable information in it. Let's keep it civil and save the BS for other threads.
I can , but stern warning out to EJ, knock it off, would be a good idea if he could edit his posts.
(Edit non-topic posts were moved out~~)
Last edited:
SirRichardRear
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not to come off as an ass since i know you already dislike me, but might be a good idea to post the updated mooch chart. where he removed the aprie battery, derated the HG2 to 18 amps, added in the sony VTC5a as the best 25 amp battery and added in the ijoy in the 26650 section as the best battery being 30 amps and top performance. Just a thoughtHope you don't mind but I'm going to leave a piece from my blog on ohm's law here
Watts- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate applied power
Volts- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate pressure applied to current to create power
Resistance- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate resistance applied to the current to create pressure
amperage- a unit of measurement in electronics to indicate current flow
Ohms Law
I have written about ohms law more times than I care to say, however, I am going to try my best to simplify this as much as possible.
Think of a circuit as a hose. The water flowing through the hose is the electricity or current(amps). The pressure pushing the water is the voltage. Now pinch the hose. Pinching the hose is adding Resistance. The pressure building up is voltage and the current flow has now decreased because you applied resistance.
Now if you take that Voltage or pressure and Multiply it by the Current or Amperage you are given your power or wattage measurement.
The problem comes in when you have a 20a battery but are trying to force it to give you more current than it has to offer.
All 4 parts that make a circuit happen are happening in conjunction with each other and as an added note to the beauty of it, whatever energy is put in must be equal to the energy coming out. What this means is that all you need are two bits of information to determine the others.
Ohms law is basically the relation of those bits of information. If you multiply the resistance applied by the current you are then given your voltage or force applied.
For ease of use the forumulas are
V=IR and P=VI
when:
V= voltage
I=current (amps)
P=power (watts)
R= resistance(ohms)
Why does ohms law matter? Batteries!
Why do you see some of us harp on ohms law? Because batteries. A battery is a limited space to hold energy. This means that we have to work within our limits. You don’t want to overdraw on your batteries. If you do bad things can happen, such as venting a battery or causing a battery to explode.
Make sure you use a battery with a 20 amp limit, meaning that If we assume the voltage after the spike from charging to be between 3.7 and 3.8 volts then the most we want to push the battery is about 75watts with a 0.18 ohm load at best. I try and preach that we stick with 20A batteries from known manufacturers. This essentially narrows down to: Samsung 25r, Sony vtc4 AND vtc5, and LGhe4.
What if my mod takes two batteries? In the even that your mod uses multiple batteries, use batteries purchased together from the same manufacturer and keep them together. We call that “married pairs” when one stops working replace them both.
better ohms law explanation
Ohm's Law - The basics - Ohms Law Formulas Explained to save you time
When choosing a battery for your mod it is important to make sure that the battery can handle the current that you are pulling from the battery. Also ensure you know the limitations of your mod per the manufacturer.
Using ohms law you can easily determine the current draw. Please see the threads authored by baditude, here in the battery section; or, myself in the beginner area.
ohms law-V = I x R Or I = V/R when I=current(amps), V=voltage, R=resistance(ohms)
So, if I need the current for a battery- I am assuming the battery at mean voltage therefore it is at 3.7v. and I am firing a 0.5 ohm resistance. Those are my two constants for the same of our math.
I would use the following as my equation:
I = 3.7v/0.5ohms
in this case I am only pulling 7.4A and 27.4 w; therefore, I want s battery that is capable of providing 7.4A safely.
admittingly, as the chart shows, most batteries can handle this. problems ome into play when people fire to far low.
NOW, lets try this with a 0.2 ohm load (coil), the voltage is the same here.
I=3.7v/0.5ohms
in this case we have 18.5amps and 68.45 w. Therefore, it is easily illustrated that the field of suitable batteries, has greatly been reduced to cells that can handle a continuous current of 20A.
The following are a list of batteries and their specs as tested by 'mooch'- a fellow vapor and accepted as a battery expert.
EDIT: Chart has been updated in post and quote to current version
Last edited:
f1r3b1rd
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Thank you, to much bullshit these days and people not knowing what to do.
It's at least a good starting place for someone
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
You just have to bash MAC somehow eh?? It's the other way round though
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Welcome to Earth. You obviously haven't met too many humans, but if you did you'd know how funny that statement was
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Deleted as i was referring to regulated mods due to a brain fart lol
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UncleRJ
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Here is my own 2 cents on the subject at hand.
There are a lot of mech's out there that I consider works of art.
And I can' think of a single regulated mod (except for a very few, very expensive ones) that even come close.
But if you absofreakinlutely just gotta have one, you absofreakinlutely need to learn the rules of the road like proper coil builds for the battery you are using and servicing the sucker properly.
I have a mech and I have used it.
Too much horsepower for me as I tend to be a low wattage vaper.
And that being said, with the single exception, I am a regulated mod guy.
That hates to read stories of mech's exploding due to operator error in the news that makes us all look bad!
There are a lot of mech's out there that I consider works of art.
And I can' think of a single regulated mod (except for a very few, very expensive ones) that even come close.
But if you absofreakinlutely just gotta have one, you absofreakinlutely need to learn the rules of the road like proper coil builds for the battery you are using and servicing the sucker properly.
I have a mech and I have used it.
Too much horsepower for me as I tend to be a low wattage vaper.
And that being said, with the single exception, I am a regulated mod guy.
That hates to read stories of mech's exploding due to operator error in the news that makes us all look bad!
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I thought this was a discussion about mechs...
gopher_byrd
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SirRichard, we are talking about mechanical devices in this thread. Just pointing out...
Instead of blowing clouds bro, you would be making yourself a news story about why e-cigs should be banned... (yeah I know you were being sarcastic)
please elaborate...what are you saying...I'm poising questions that I think will illustrate potential dangers.
f1r3b1rd
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To say crap batteries, I'm going to assume we are talking about 10a batteries with crap wrappers.
First a crap wrapper could hard short resulting in sudden heat or tingles from either the button or the battery.
Or
It could work for a while and gradually get hotter to the point of almost pain from touching the mod body. This could continue for some time until finally - a total thermal runaway, with the battery venting gasses through vent holes and/or explosion.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
In the event a mod gets to hot to the touch what should you do?
f1r3b1rd
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First off, my mod has never gotten too hot to touch so I'm not sure if this is correct or not.
I would try and remove the battery before it got there.
If it's too late I would either throw it under something (to contain the shrapnel)- or- throw it as far away from me and everyone else as I could so that it can cool.
Would love to know the correct answer though
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Probablly the best thing would be to toss it...I have done it..I forced an atty down on a mod it pushed the center pin up into the atty and created hard short..mod got hot as a pistol...I tore the mod open and pulled the battery out...the wrapper was melting and threw the battery as far as I could....I'm pretty sure it was not to smart.....so what I have to say it if it doesn't fit right don't force it...find out why something is not going together easily don't try and force it to.
Last edited:
f1r3b1rd
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Damnitman!!!
Worst I had, was back when I first started.
I had a 15a button top from my provari that I put in a mech. I had a 1.5ohm build in a tank. I inadvertently busted the wrapper putting it in, and felt a rush of tingles shoot down my arm.
I took the battery out, and felt like a big giant dumb dumb.
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SirRichardRear
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Yeah you are correct. I went off topic with it. Not sure why must have been distracted. I'll edit my comment out so people don't get confused
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f1r3b1rd
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Noooo not all are created equal!
Spring buttons on some, magnetic buttons on others; and, even some with ball bearings.
Some are made of copper, some aluminum and some any number of other materials.
Then we have the different topcaps, hybrid or 510... Inside of those groups are further differences.
Some of the springs in buttons can't support a subohm build.
Some of the magnets can't either.
The name of the game is connectivity, and voltage dropm
The size and material of the battery contacts plays a roll as does the material of the mod itself. The thickness of the mod also plays a roll.
The best thing are big beefy contacts usually copper, silver plated copper or rhodium plated copper.
Copper being one of the most conductive materials on the planet is one of the best for mod construction, with that comes keeping the inside and contacts clean. The work in keeping it clean is partly why silver or rhodium plated helps. Both metals tarnish less than copper and keep it conductive.
With hybrids, a hybrid connection. With insulation is best should you go that route. However, with good solid contacts, the hybrid connection is not necessary for the same performance.
Hybrid safety involved ensuring that the positive part of the 510 sticks out a few millimeters past the negative(threaded part).
Summarily, a thick copper walled mechanical with large silver or rhodium plated copper battery contacts and either a heavy gauge spring buttons or magnetic button tends to be best when going subohm
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Give it to someone you really hate?
So, which is better for which application...spring or magnets or does it matter.....or does the size of the spring or the size of the magnet determine which mod to choose.
how do you think Harry Ried lost his eye.
f1r3b1rd
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It depends really
In a static state a magnetic button would promote more current flow.
But if it's a smaller magnet versus a thicker gauge spring, the spring would be better.
As to sizes and which means which... Now you're out of my wheelhouse.
I looks at it like any mechanical system
You are only as strong as your weakest point.
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yeah exactlly I have mods with both magnets and springs and the modders of each mod recommend not to vape them below .5...so I guess it's a matter of the particular mods design.
My rules have always been simple. Know ohms law and f1r3b1rd posted a great post on the previous page for that. Kudos. I have only used Sammy 25rs in my mechs. I always always always make sure it's a fully charged bat and inspect the wrapper carefully. I never build below .2 for a mech, usually higher. And a tip for those not experienced enough to 'feel' voltage drop its good to have a multimeter. And I always remove my batteries if I'm not using the mech for a bit.
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f1r3b1rd
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In my OPINION the 25r is the best overall battery for subohm. It's pulse rating and thermal properties give you more overall leeway combined with the mah rating.
Some(few) have a higher CDR but not enough mah to be worth it outside of a few drags
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Last edited:
f1r3b1rd
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Me too, I have a few that recommend above 0.5, one that I can't really go below 1 and a few that will let me go as low as I want.
I tend to stick with the last group when use mechs; and, keep the regulated for the day to day punishment.
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I think f1r3b1rd pretty much covered it all.
Now ,what I look for in a mech is insulators.... Big thick insulators on top of switch that keep the sides of the bottom of battery from making contact with metal. Thick insulator on top around the positive post and to keep the top of the battery from making contact.
One real important thing is to consider the age and the age of technology of when the tube mech mod was designed. Some were made in the days before "sub-ohm" was a thing. Some were design for under 1.0 etc. Make sure that the top 510 contact is steady, that its making a solid firm contact and that its not either jammed in there so tight that it dents the battery either on top or bottom and that they are not loose. I usually put my battery in and adjust , then give it a shake to make sure all is good.
Keeping oxidation at a minimum really helps. I take my mechs apart at least once a month or if I havent used in a few weeks I give it wipe off with 95% alcohol or acetone. If it has brass bits I clean it. If you have a build up of oxidation either on the mods posts, switches or even inside your atomizers brass/ copper or even stainless posts it will cause the current to find a different path..... Which means hot buttons, hot top caps etc.....
My 2 cents, sense , but like I always say , I dont know if Im crazy, Im in the process of being tested
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In case of a dead short, the time it takes from when it starts to heat up, to when it turns into a roman candle could be a fraction of a second.
Don't try to mess with the battery, toss it and walk away.
This is obviously in case of irregular heat and not just heat transference from an RDA.
I'll save you the suspense.....you're loony bird or you wouldn;t be hanging with this bunchI think f1r3b1rd pretty much covered it all.
Now ,what I look for in a mech is insulators.... Big thick insulators on top of switch that keep the sides of the bottom of battery from making contact with metal. Thick insulator on top around the positive post and to keep the top of the battery from making contact.
One real important thing is to consider the age and the age of technology of when the tube mech mod was designed. Some were made in the days before "sub-ohm" was a thing. Some were design for under 1.0 etc. Make sure that the top 510 contact is steady, that its making a solid firm contact and that its not either jammed in there so tight that it dents the battery either on top or bottom and that they are not loose. I usually put my battery in and adjust , then give it a shake to make sure all is good.
Keeping oxidation at a minimum really helps. I take my mechs apart at least once a month or if I havent used in a few weeks I give it wipe off with 95% alcohol or acetone. If it has brass bits I clean it. If you have a build up of oxidation either on the mods posts, switches or even inside your atomizers brass/ copper or even stainless posts it will cause the current to find a different path..... Which means hot buttons, hot top caps etc.....
My 2 cents, sense , but like I always say , I dont know if Im crazy, Im in the process of being tested
and what would you say is the cause of the most common dead short in a mech mod? the thing we should be most aware of
Hybrid 510 mod connector and inadequate atty 510 pin.
A short non adjustable 510 would either short right away or not at all (in most cases) while an adjustable 510 could short later on when you least expect it, since screwing the atty on the mod may cause the 510 screw to screw inwards, that's why they invented the reverse threaded 510 pin, to prevent just that.
A short non adjustable 510 would either short right away or not at all (in most cases) while an adjustable 510 could short later on when you least expect it, since screwing the atty on the mod may cause the 510 screw to screw inwards, that's why they invented the reverse threaded 510 pin, to prevent just that.
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The only attys I use with my hybrids are ones that have a rather large adjustable bottom pin, and even those I have modded so that the insulated isolator surrounding the adjustable pin stick about 1.5mm below the 510 connection,of the atty so it is physically impossible for the battery to touch metal of the atty..another thing I have done is , once I put my battery in the tube I will stack insulated flat washers ontop of the battery enough so that the washers act as a barrier between the battery and the 510 connection, so that the battery can't toush metal...if the atty's 510 pin is not down far enough the atty just won't fire.I would not recommend any inexperinced vaper use a hybrid...although I do have to say that hybrids were not uncommon years ago, and yet I can't ever recall any accidents...it seems most of these incedents have involved sub-ohm tanks on hybrids.
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Washers won't do much good in the case of a hybrid failure, since the threaded part of the atty 510 which is negative would still touch the washers which are positive.
the washers are insulated,usually hard rubber. and as big as the ID of the tube with a large center hole