Thoughts on clones

[bigrobbie]

I was wondering, with the large number of cloned vape hardware on the market what some of you think?

Would you, have you, etc. ever used a cloned mod, coil, or even counterfeit juice?

As I'm still learning and am only moderately educated on all things vape related I may ask an odd question like this now and again...hang with me guys.

Thanks for all who have replied to my threads...your input is much appreciated.

 

[skiball]

Hey i'm a fan of clones myself have 2 at the moment. Both are great quality and will def buy more. Also a good place to shop for them is fasttech they almost always have some reviews so you'll know if the quality is A+.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

 

[bigrobbie]

Hey i'm a fan of clones myself have 2 at the moment. Both are great quality and will def buy more. Also a good place to shop for them is fasttech they almost always have some reviews so you'll know if the quality is A+.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

Thanks, off topic it appears, according to our avatars, we both think highly of our dogs, lol!

Appreciate the info!

 

[skiball]

Thanks, off topic it appears, according to our avatars, we both think highly of our dogs, lol!

Appreciate the info!

Yup proud dog lover here def part of the fam. Bailey's 9 now and the pic is of her pups there 2 now. Will never breed pups again but it was an experience to say the least. Oh and back on topic never got a clone mod not when you can get a subox for 20$.

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[bigrobbie]

Yup proud dog lover here def part of the fam. Bailey's 9 now and the pic is of her pups there 2 now. Will never breed pups again but it was an experience to say the least. Oh and back on topic never got a clone mod not when you can get a subox for 20$.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

Copy that...I just ordered a Cherry Bomber clone and my wife ordered a cloned cyclone sub ohm tank so just got nervous, ha...

Glad to meet another dog lover! TTYL

 

[Angrygod50]

Tanks, RDA's or mech mods sure. Regulated mods or batteries no.

 

[pulsevape]

My God I can't believe somebody started this up again......

 

[stevegmu]

No. I don't support criminal organizations. If I couldn't afford non counterfeit things, I would do without them...

 

[pulsevape]

and we're off....

 

[BadLuckAndTrouble]

Eh, I have clones that I enjoy, but they also led me to buy the real thing, like in the case of the Nemesis and the Derringer.

Others I bought and didn't like the design, no matter the materials or quality control, so I had no desire to buy the authentic. The Low Pro RDA for example, just a pure pain in the ass to build on.

Who gives a fuck what someone across a computer screen types at you, if you enjoy it and it only cost you 20$ instead of 120$, puff on that motherfucker all you want.

Apparently were bank rolling the cartels with every drag lol.

 

[DED420]

My collection is half and half. My regulated mods are all Authentic, my ABS box is also authentic, the rest of my mechs are Clones. RDA's are all Clones except 1 (Samurai by TCF), and all tanks are Authentic.

Things with computers/chips shouldn't be cheaped out on, get the real deal, for safety and reliability. But anything mechanical all comes down to machining quality, there's just no justification for a simple copper tube to cost as much as my regulated mods. As long as it's machined well out of quality materials, Clones are just as good as the Authentics (and on rare occasion, sometimes even better).

Example: SMPL Clone for $20-30, or an Authentic for over $100. They both perform exactly the same, the design is a 1:1 copy, the only difference is the Logo etched on the Button. I've used both Authentic/Clone versions of the SMPL mod, and there was absolutely no difference, so how can they justify an $80+ difference? That's the only reason I have clones, the Authentics are just too expensive for what they are.

 

[pulsevape]

My collection is half and half. My regulated mods are all Authentic, my ABS box is also authentic, the rest of my mechs are Clones. RDA's are all Clones except 1 (Samurai by TCF), and all tanks are Authentic.

Things with computers/chips shouldn't be cheaped out on, get the real deal, for safety and reliability. But anything mechanical all comes down to machining quality, there's just no justification for a simple copper tube to cost as much as my regulated mods. As long as it's machined well out of quality materials, Clones are just as good as the Authentics (and on rare occasion, sometimes even better).

Example: SMPL Clone for $20-30, or an Authentic for over $100. They both perform exactly the same, the design is a 1:1 copy, the only difference is the Logo etched on the Button. I've used both Authentic/Clone versions of the SMPL mod, and there was absolutely no difference, so how can they justify an $80+ difference? That's the only reason I have clones, the Authentics are just too expensive for what they are.

I've bought attys that were both authentic and clone 1:1 blah blah...they don't vape the same.

 

[Deucesjack]

One of the best and most rock solid mods I ever bought was a 60w Vapor Flask clone. Well over a year old and still going strong.

 

[pulsevape]

The kinds of people that are satisfyed with clones don't vape authentics...the type of people who vape authentics don't vape clones....clone makers are the scum of the earth thieves and parasites....modders keep production down to make the price go up.....that being said vape what you like.

 

[BadLuckAndTrouble]

The kinds of people that are satisfyed with clones don't vape authentics...the type of people who vape authentics don't vape clones....clone makers are the scum of the earth thieves and parasites....modders keep production down to make the price go up.....that being said vape what you like.

I agree it may not be ethical, but what room is left for ethics in the modern world?

Ive vaped and owned both.

 

[Deucesjack]

I really could care less about what anyone thinks about the way I spend MY money. If you're paying my bills then you can tell me how to spend my money. If not then vape on. 95% of the time I buy authentic but sometimes there's a mod that comes out that I just like and it's just to expensive. If I can find a clone I'll buy it. Lately though with all the really good low priced mods out there it's really tough to justify buying a clone. Wismec/Joytech especially, has changed the game. Case in point, I really wanted a SX Vapor Flask but almost $300 for a mod is kind of ridiculous for me. So, I compromised and bought a VF Classic. If they offered a cloned version of the high powered Vapor Flask I would have been all over it.

 

[Zamazam]

Jumping Jehoshaphat! This deceased equine is being flagellated again?

 

[BadLuckAndTrouble]

 

[stevegmu]

People should live within their means, not be posers with fake junk- like the woman buying groceries with food stamps she pulls out of a fake Louis Vuitton purse...

 

[skeene]

I have a stumpy clone I like a lot, and a petri clone that is garbage

 

[Izen]

From a buying perspective; Nothing wrong with a clone when the buyer knows exactly what they're purchasing. Everything wrong with a counterfeit when the item purports to be something it's not as in deceptively selling a fake as the real thing.

From a manufacturing perspective; it's another story. rather not get into it here & now.

 

[BadLuckAndTrouble]

People should live within their means, not be posers with fake junk- like the woman buying groceries with food stamps she pulls out of a fake Louis Vuitton purse...

Or maybe its just intelligent consumerism?
Is straight stitching worth an extra 250$?

 

[stevegmu]

Or maybe its just intelligent consumerism?
Is straight stitching worth an extra 250$?

Why go to the dealership for a car, when stolen ones are less expensive?

 

[BadLuckAndTrouble]

Why go to the dealership for a car, when stolen ones are less expensive?

Exactly, insurance already covered the original owners expenses anyway, right?
Though I wish this damn screwdriver I have to use as a key fit in my pocket better.

 

[OBDave]

Never owned and probably never will own a legit RDA or mech tube (except maybe a Twisted Messes or others in the sub-$50 range). If I were into mechs for the art form I'd reconsider, but I've moved on.

Never owned and definitely never will own a fake regulated mod, the real ones are just too cheap.

 

[pulsevape]

I've never owned a clone I was attachted to...but I still own all my authentics...except for a KFL I traded for a stormrider...I know most of my authentics will last a lifetime, and most of the chinese shite will most likely not....I pretty much settled on a style of vaping I like, and so I don't go around chasing gear anymore, about once or twice a year an atty comes along that I want, and so it's no great burden to buy the authentic......I'm no collector,but seeing someones collection of authentics is kinda fun and interesting, whereas seeing someones big collection of clones is sort of sad and pathetic.....

 

[DogMan]

i have $900 mods and also have $6 clone atties

i know modders who manufacture $500 mods who use clones

 

[fratervapor]

Why go to the dealership for a car, when stolen ones are less expensive?

Why make a real argument when a straw man fallacy is easier?

No one was advocating the theft and resale of physical property.

If people buy both clones and authentics that is a market signal to the manufacturer there is room for a lower tier in their product offering and/or that their product is overpriced.

They could sell functional seconds at the clone pricing, remove the cloners' reason for existence, and satisfy the entire market. Maybe that's already happening.


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[pulsevape]

Why make a real argument when a straw man fallacy is easier?

No one was advocating the theft and resale of physical property.

If people buy both clones and authentics that is a market signal to the manufacturer there is room for a lower tier in their product offering and/or that their product is overpriced.

They could sell functional seconds at the clone pricing, remove the cloners' reason for existence, and satisfy the entire market. Maybe that's already happening.


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intellectual theft ....is still theft.....whether it is physical property or intellectual property is irrelevant....you took something that doesn't belong to you......you bought stolen goods at a lower price is not justification for your right to steal trying to put lipstick on this pig won't work.....and let's be honest even if the modders sold their seconds at a price that was just five dollars more than a clone, alot of people would still buy the clone and brag about saving that 5 dollars....losing money in order to removing the cloners reason for existence is the kind of logic that says give your wallet to the thief, so he isn't forced to take it...The modders are getting raped and you blame the victim for wearing a miniskirt.You don't have a right to shit you want just because you want it..there is alot of things I want thart I can't afford...life goes on...I live with what I can afford.

 

[Faceless Vapes]

I personally don't agree with clones. I would rather support the authentic manufacture than support someone stealing an idea. To each his own. I don't look down on anyone who does use clones.

 

[skeene]

I have an authentic heart with a clones budget

 

[raymo2u]

I dont see why not buy a clone BEFORE you buy the Authentic...to get a feel if you would like it or not, this is called smart purchasing...
Most 1:1 clones are Identical, some have improvements over the original design, theres nothing wrong with a clone or buying them...some people just "feel" they are a bad thing. I find them to be a good way to balance things out and keep authentic's cheaper instead of the price gouging we were subjected to a year ago +

 

[R3alJim Shady]

With the way things are going, there isn't much reason to buy a clone anymore. Quality, authentic regulated devices and atties can be had for CHEAP these days... i.e. Wotofo, Joye, Sigelei, Geek Vape, Wismec, etc.

That being said, I own 4 clone mechs and probably in the realm of 16 clone RDA's. I couldn't afford to spend ten times the amount of money for those atties, and while I agree that cloning is "wrong," I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to try them at a price I can afford.

Basically, if the clones are out there then there will be people buying them. I think there are two lessons here:
Don't charge more then $50 for a fucking dripper and don't judge people who use clones. At least they're not throwing money at BT to kill them.

If you have the attitude that it's immoral and wrong to buy a clone, then don't. But don't be surprised when people call you an elitist douche when you start preaching about others' spending choices.


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[pulsevape]

With the way things are going, there isn't much reason to buy a clone anymore. Quality, authentic regulated devices and atties can be had for CHEAP these days... i.e. Wotofo, Joye, Sigelei, Geek Vape, Wismec, etc.

That being said, I own 4 clone mechs and probably in the realm of 16 clone RDA's. I couldn't afford to spend ten times the amount of money for those atties, and while I agree that cloning is "wrong," I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to try them at a price I can afford.

Basically, if the clones are out there then there will be people buying them. I think there are two lessons here:
Don't charge more then $50 for a fucking driller and don't judge people who use clones. At least they're not throwing money at BT to kill them.

If you have the attitude that it's immoral and wrong to buy a clone, then don't. But don't be surprised when people call you an elitist douche when you start preaching about others' spending choices.


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All I see are a bunch of douchebags that are trying to ratioanlize theft, or come up with some convulted ratioanle about how modders deserved to get fucked so a bunch of twats can have a collection of clones......if you need to vape Youde has been making authentic attys and mods for years, if you need to vape you can buy them cheap....this isn't about your access to vape gear this is about you wanting something you can't afford ...hell it isn't even about what you can't afford it's about what your willing to pay...and buying it off of some guy who stole it for you and then on top of it claiming some moral justification for your sense of entitlement that you get to decide what is fair or not fair....Don't be surprised when the people who actually design and build the vape gear you love call you a fucking asshole for buying clones of their creations......It's stealing we've all done it and their is no moral justification for it other than....we did it because we could......for whatever reason, but mostly because it favors us...we gladly accept the cloning in the vape industry to a degree we would be outraged over if it was in any other industry........

 

[pulsevape]

I dont see why not buy a clone BEFORE you buy the Authentic...to get a feel if you would like it or not, this is called smart purchasing...
Most 1:1 clones are Identical, some have improvements over the original design, theres nothing wrong with a clone or buying them...some people just "feel" they are a bad thing. I find them to be a good way to balance things out and keep authentic's cheaper instead of the price gouging we were subjected to a year ago +

But then, who are you to decide what a product is worth....who are you to decide what is a fair price...you and I both know your sense of fairness is solely based on your own personal pocketbook.....if you were worth 30 million dollars you wouldn't even look at the price of gear you would think the price fair....I fear the end result of cloneheads is that the modders are just going to stop designing gear..I think they've already started closing down...what is the point of investing time and money in developing devices when the fucking scumbag chinese steal your work and some pimple faced twat in SoCal has a shelf full of clones and brags about how the chinese have a right to steal your shit because your a greedy fuck.and won't give him vape gear at Mc Donald prices....
Prices would also have gone down if modders designs were protected and if we didn't allow the fucking chinese to clone....then the modders could feel confident in being able to invest money in mass productions of their gear....We have bought gear from one of the most brutal barbaric group of theiving scumbags on the planet who are raping their people and their enviroment and modders.....lets not kid ourselves.

 

[R3alJim Shady]

All I see are a bunch of douchebags that are trying to ratioanlize theft, or come up with some convulted ratioanle about how modders deserved to get fucked so a bunch of twats can have a collection of clones......if you need to vape Youde has been making authentic attys and mods for years, if you need to vape you can buy them cheap....this isn't about your access to vape gear this is about you wanting something you can't afford ...hell it isn't even about what you can't afford it's about what your willing to pay...and buying it off of some guy who stole it for you and then on top of it claiming some moral justification for your sense of entitlement that you get to decide what is fair or not fair....Don't be surprised when the people who actually design and build the vape gear you love call you a fucking asshole for buying clones of their creations......It's stealing we've all done it and their is no moral justification for it other than....we did it because we could......for whatever reason, but mostly because it favors us...we gladly accept the cloning in the vape industry to a degree we would be outraged over if it was in any other industry........

I never said anything about "modders deserving to get fucked."
Your argument that producing clones of authentic products being morally wrong is spot on, IMHO. Producing a copy of someone else's work, complete with logos and all, is wrong.

However, it's not as black and white as you make it sound. You're talking about theft of ideas as well. What about all the new tanks and drippers with "Velocity style decks?" Should people refrain from buying those because Avid Vaper had the original design? What about cylon airflow slots? Adjustable airflow? So is it an original product of the cloners combine features of already popular RDA's a la the CLT from Infinite?

Or does it have to be an exact copy to be defined as theft?

And your comment on entitlement is bullshit. If you pay for a clone or authentic with money you earned by working, you're certainly entitled to the item you purchased.

Guess what? Modders really aren't losing money here. A majority of people who buy clones would never buy the authentic simply because they can't afford it or aren't willing to spend hundreds on a limited edition mech. If that clone weren't available, they would purchase a less expensive, mass produced mod... not pony up the cash to buy the authentic. So your comment on modders being "fucked" is in relation to theft of intellectual property, not money.

AAAAAAAAND theft of intellectual property is tolerated all the time in other industries. Take Bill Gates' theft of an idea for a graphic computer interface (Windows) from Steve Jobs (MacOS), for example. Or how about Mark Zuckerberg's theft of the idea for Facebook from the Winklevoss brothers.

Oh, and WE ARE THE CONSUMERS who decide what a product is worth. If consumers decide that a product is not worth the price charged, the product doesn't sell. Modders priced themselves out. Clones didn't have a thing to do with it.


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[pulsevape]

let me start off saying..Mark Zuckerbergs should be in a jail cell somewhere getting passed around by the Bloods try and get Zuckerberg to admitt he stole the idea he totally denies it.....yeah it's pretty black and white obscuring it in order to justify it maybe comforting to you but it's total bull shit, the entire chinese vaping industry was built on the backs of non chinese modders.....of course it's a sense of entitlement, there's this idea that the modders are price gouging or their shit isn't worth the high price...blah blah....
Modders aren't losing money really...imagine if the chinese weren't allowed to steal people's designs.....imagine if a modder knew he was the sole owner of a design...then he would invest in creating mass production runs, he wouldn't have to worry about the chinese under cutting his prices.....as it is modders don't do mass production runs because they can't undercut the mass production runs of the chinese we would get lower prices....we've done to modders what we've done to all industry we've just exported the industry to china....you're just dancing round something you know is wrong because it profits you.....we all do

ob·fus·cate
ˈäbfəˌskāt/
verb

1. render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible.
   "the spelling changes will deform some familiar words and obfuscate their etymological origins"
   synonyms: obscure, confuse, make unclear, blur, muddle, complicate,overcomplicate, muddy, cloud, befog
   "mere rationalizations to obfuscate rather than clarify the real issue"

 

[Deucesjack]

I never said anything about "modders deserving to get fucked."
Your argument that producing clones of authentic products being morally wrong is spot on, IMHO. Producing a copy of someone else's work, complete with logos and all, is wrong.

However, it's not as black and white as you make it sound. You're talking about theft of ideas as well. What about all the new tanks and drippers with "Velocity style decks?" Should people refrain from buying those because Avid Vaper had the original design? What about cylon airflow slots? Adjustable airflow? So is it an original product of the cloners combine features of already popular RDA's a la the CLT from Infinite?

Or does it have to be an exact copy to be defined as theft?

And your comment on entitlement is bullshit. If you pay for a clone or authentic with money you earned by working, you're certainly entitled to the item you purchased.

Guess what? Modders really aren't losing money here. A majority of people who buy clones would never buy the authentic simply because they can't afford it or aren't willing to spend hundreds on a limited edition mech. If that clone weren't available, they would purchase a less expensive, mass produced mod... not pony up the cash to buy the authentic. So your comment on modders being "fucked" is in relation to theft of intellectual property, not money.

AAAAAAAAND theft of intellectual property is tolerated all the time in other industries. Take Bill Gates' theft of an idea for a graphic computer interface (Windows) from Steve Jobs (MacOS), for example. Or how about Mark Zuckerberg's theft of the idea for Facebook from the Winklevoss brothers.

Oh, and WE ARE THE CONSUMERS who decide what a product is worth. If consumers decide that a product is not worth the price charged, the product doesn't sell. Modders priced themselves out. Clones didn't have a thing to do with it.


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Exactly right.

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[R3alJim Shady]

let me start off saying..Mark Zuckerbergs should be in a jail cell somewhere getting passed around by the Bloods try and get Zuckerberg to admitt he stole the idea he totally denies it.....yeah it's pretty black and white obscuring it in order to justify it maybe comforting to you but it's total bull shit, the entire chinese vaping industry was built on the backs of non chinese modders.....of course it's a sense of entitlement, there's this idea that the modders are price gouging or their shit isn't worth the high price...blah blah....
Modders aren't losing money really...imagine if the chinese weren't allowed to steal people's designs.....imagine if a modder knew he was the sole owner of a design...then he would invest in creating mass production runs, he wouldn't have to worry about the chinese under cutting his prices.....as it is modders don't do mass production runs because they can't undercut the mass production runs of the chinese we would get lower prices....we've done to modders what we've done to all industry we've just exported the industry to china....you're just dancing round something you know is wrong because it profits you.....we all do

ob·fus·cate
ˈäbfəˌskāt/
verb

1. render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible.
   "the spelling changes will deform some familiar words and obfuscate their etymological origins"
   synonyms: obscure, confuse, make unclear, blur, muddle, complicate,overcomplicate, muddy, cloud, befog
   "mere rationalizations to obfuscate rather than clarify the real issue"

Why are you taking my, as well as many others', stance on it so personally? Are you a modder or good friends with a modder?

The stakes seem high enough for you to insult my intelligence by quoting the dictionary definition of obfuscate, which is the exact opposite of my explanation. My statements are rooted in reality and fact and you are responding purely on emotion and opinion here.

MARKET determines price, not modders. That is a fact. Interestingly enough, the Chinese invented the electronic cigarette, so technically all your beloved modders are piggybacking off of them. That's an inconvenient fact, too, isn't it?


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[raymo2u]

@pulsevape...I think Ive thrown more money on vaping this past 2 weeks then 90% of people will in their lifetime, I bought both Clones and Authentic Gear and I really wouldnt call myself greedy, shopping smart is just that, much like using discount codes and coupons at stores.... There will always be designers and modders, they havent closed down at all...there are more now then ever since the market has opened up more and they have joined up with the Chinese manufacturers. Clones inspire better pricing, better value, and better products...without them everything would still be crazy prices, half ass attention to detail and lack of support like it was, you should know better then that....
Just because you feel strongly about something doesnt mean others who view it from a different perspective are wrong or bad...we are just different and see things differently...thats all.

I dont base what I buy thinking of who made it, I decide whether or not its truly worth its asking price and if there is a cheaper option out there then I try that, if I like it and I dont have the Authentic then I order the Authentic....how does that make one greedy? Wouldn't it be down right stupid to blow a ton of money on something you may not like at all?

 

[pulsevape]

Why are you taking my, as well as many others', stance on it so personally? Are you a modder or good friends with a modder?

The stakes seem high enough for you to insult my intelligence by quoting the dictionary definition of obfuscate, which is the exact opposite of my explanation. My statements are rooted in reality and fact and you are responding purely on emotion and opinion here.

MARKET determines price, not modders. That is a fact. Interestingly enough, the Chinese invented the electronic cigarette, so technically all your beloved modders are piggybacking off of them. That's an inconvenient fact, too, isn't it?


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actually an american invented the first electronic cigarette back in the 60s.....sorry but don't trust everything Al Gore tells you....I'm not taking anything personally and I don't know any modders but I've been vaping long enough to know who built the industry and their battle with the fucking chinese.
MARKET determine price really dude so the United States doesn't have a patent office, and we don't have patents on intellectual property...really part of the MARKET is you don't get to create monopolies, you don't get to steal other peoples designs.....that's part of the free MARKET.....
Nobody insulted you..just called you out on the convuluted justification you use for buying stolen designs...I've done it everybody here is done it.....the only insult being leveled is by you insulting everyones intelligence with your rationalization

 

[R3alJim Shady]

I'm not rationalizing or justifying anything at all. Patent offices have nothing to do with pricing or market. Call me out all you want, but you're still ignoring facts. China is not subject to US patent law, nor are Chinese companies. What monopoly are you talking about? Let's say you were talking about Chinese companies... some of the major players have subsidiaries, but so do plenty of companies here.

I appreciate your passion, but you're not really making your point with anything other than opinions and off base claims. I understand where you're coming from and I agree to a point.


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[pulsevape]

@pulsevape...I think Ive thrown more money on vaping this past 2 weeks then 90% of people will in their lifetime, I bought both Clones and Authentic Gear and I really wouldnt call myself greedy, shopping smart is just that, much like using discount codes and coupons at stores.... There will always be designers and modders, they havent closed down at all...there are more now then ever since the market has opened up more and they have joined up with the Chinese manufacturers. Clones inspire better pricing, better value, and better products...without them everything would still be crazy prices, half ass attention to detail and lack of support like it was, you should know better then that....
Just because you feel strongly about something doesnt mean others who view it from a different perspective are wrong or bad...we are just different and see things differently...thats all.

I dont base what I buy thinking of who made it, I decide whether or not its truly worth its asking price and if there is a cheaper option out there then I try that, if I like it and I dont have the Authentic then I order the Authentic....how does that make one greedy? Wouldn't it be down right stupid to blow a ton of money on something you may not like at all?

I love you Ray , but that is absolute rubbish....you are trying to tell me clones are responsible for higher quality in authentic mods....that is simpely insane....explain to me how cheap ass chinese shit inspires better products. explain to me how chinese clones were responsible for the quality of say...The Hellfires, or the Rocket from RSM,or fogatti or the Calibre,or the Glas mod, or the Caravela.......tell me about how these mods were "half ass attention to detail"..
I didn't say anyone was bad, but let's tell the truth..you place what ever label you want on it...I didn't......I've bought clones..I can't say I ever bought one that I kept for long, and like you said I bought them to see whether or not I wanted to buy the authentic..but I'm not going to bullshit myself or anyone else with some bogus list of rationalizations I bought them because I could.

 

[pulsevape]

I'm not rationalizing or justifying anything at all. Patent offices have nothing to do with pricing or market. Call me out all you want, but you're still ignoring facts. China is not subject to US patent law, nor are Chinese companies. What monopoly are you talking about? Let's say you were talking about Chinese companies... some of the major players have subsidiaries, but so do plenty of companies here.

I appreciate your passion, but you're not really making your point with anything other than opinions and off base claims. I understand where you're coming from and I agree to a point.


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well of course patents have to do with the economy....that's why chevy never made a clone of the Mustang...if they could of they would have....China refuses to aknowledge other peoples property more obfusication...Fucking China is at this moment going through the fucking South China Sea saying it own Islands it never set foot on and had always owned the Islands they are stealing or trying to steal land from the Phillipines,Vietnam, and other countries....they have the same attitude in their trade relations.....they also aren't supposed to sell shit to people as food or medicine that winds up killing people....but they do,and they do it with impunity.Your argument about the Chinese not recognizing patent law is laughable......If I rob a bank is New York and go to a contry that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US I go free....but I still stole a bunch of money regardless.the rest of the industrialized world recognize each other patents....it's called property rights.

 

[pulsevape]

@pulsevape...I think Ive thrown more money on vaping this past 2 weeks then 90% of people will in their lifetime, I bought both Clones and Authentic Gear and I really wouldnt call myself greedy, shopping smart is just that, much like using discount codes and coupons at stores.... There will always be designers and modders, they havent closed down at all...there are more now then ever since the market has opened up more and they have joined up with the Chinese manufacturers. Clones inspire better pricing, better value, and better products...without them everything would still be crazy prices, half ass attention to detail and lack of support like it was, you should know better then that....
Just because you feel strongly about something doesnt mean others who view it from a different perspective are wrong or bad...we are just different and see things differently...thats all.

I dont base what I buy thinking of who made it, I decide whether or not its truly worth its asking price and if there is a cheaper option out there then I try that, if I like it and I dont have the Authentic then I order the Authentic....how does that make one greedy? Wouldn't it be down right stupid to blow a ton of money on something you may not like at all?

I'm a fly fisherman.....alot of guys collect fly rods..they might have a dozen rods that range from 300.00-1200.00 a rod.....I've fished for about 20 years...I own 3 rods not very many...but all of them are expensive rods, and they all are pieces of craftsmanship that I love in my hand....it's about quality not quanity...

 

[raymo2u]

I love you Ray , but that is absolute rubbish....you are trying to tell me clones are responsible for higher quality in authentic mods....that is simpely insane....explain to me how cheap ass chinese shit inspires better products. explain to me how chinese clones were responsible for the quality of say...The Hellfires, or the Rocket from RSM,or fogatti or the Calibre,or the Glas mod, or the Caravela.......tell me about how these mods were "half ass attention to detail"..
I didn't say anyone was bad, but let's tell the truth..you place what ever label you want on it...I didn't......I've bought clones..I can't say I ever bought one that I kept for long, and like you said I bought them to see whether or not I wanted to buy the authentic..but I'm not going to bullshit myself or anyone else with some bogus list of rationalizations I bought them because I could.

You know I have been told "I love you" by atleast 9 members the past 2 days...Kinda odd but okay

I really dont want to search and search to find how or why but the mods and rda's that were being sold to the community by american modders, some were not the best quality and the customers would get stuck with them or sell them because there wasnt any support. This was with only a handful of modders so I guess you couldnt say it was a "Widespread Authentic Issue" but it was a thing people were dealing with. Since more and more clones are coming out and some in the same quality (could be Manufacturers double dipping even ) and I think this keeps the Modders in check. They will need to make sure their products are QC'd and have decent CS for them to strive and the ones that dont I feel shouldnt be in the game to begin with.

I dont feel I need to rationalize why I buy clones as it seems pretty clear cut to me why I and others do...The same could go for people who buy Authentics only. The big thing is your buying something, its either expect quality or deal with some issues and those are the choices with some difference in price...Im not into politics or personal attachments to creators so I dont involve any of that when Im buying myself something....but thats just me.

If you read over what you've wrote there is some prejudice against Chinese Manufactures in there, I dont have that same feeling towards them...maybe thats the difference?

 

[Deucesjack]

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[raymo2u]

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That PWM Box I almost bought...Its around 250 if I remember right and Big Lou made it seem crazy powerful...I stopped myself from buying when I saw the promo pics on the guys Imgur. Promo Pics and Advertisement pics are supposed to be the perfect version of they're box and most of the sold models wont be as nice...I dont see how this is worth 250-300...

New and Improved Model...

 

[R3alJim Shady]

well of course patents have to do with the economy....that's why chevy never made a clone of the Mustang...if they could of they would have....China refuses to aknowledge other peoples property more obfusication...Fucking China is at this moment going through the fucking South China Sea saying it own Islands it never set foot on and had always owned the Islands they are stealing or trying to steal land from the Phillipines,Vietnam, and other countries....they have the same attitude in their trade relations.....they also aren't supposed to sell shit to people as food or medicine that winds up killing people....but they do,and they do it with impunity.Your argument about the Chinese not recognizing patent law is laughable......If I rob a bank is New York and go to a contry that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US I go free....but I still stole a bunch of money regardless.the rest of the industrialized world recognize each other patents....it's called property rights.

My point is that morality is relative between cultures. If you don't feel right buying clones, then don't. Clearly this isn't an issue to the authorities in the US because clones are being sold and allowed to make way into the country. You definitely have a bone to pick with China and it's obvious that it's not just about vape gear.

I hope you never shop at Walmart, Target, or on Amazon because those morally devoid Chinese make just about everything sold.

Like I've said before, I see your point and I agree with a lot of what you've said. In a perfect world all this would be fixed, but instead of focusing on what SHOULD BE, I prefer to focus on what IS. I don't have that kind of energy to devote to something like that and I'm a pretty happy guy as a result. I've got nothing left to say here so I'll be on my way. Cheers!


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[pulsevape]

You know I have been told "I love you" by atleast 9 members the past 2 days...Kinda odd but okay

I really dont want to search and search to find how or why but the mods and rda's that were being sold to the community by american modders, some were not the best quality and the customers would get stuck with them or sell them because there wasnt any support. This was with only a handful of modders so I guess you couldnt say it was a "Widespread Authentic Issue" but it was a thing people were dealing with. Since more and more clones are coming out and some in the same quality (could be Manufacturers double dipping even ) and I think this keeps the Modders in check. They will need to make sure their products are QC'd and have decent CS for them to strive and the ones that dont I feel shouldnt be in the game to begin with.

I dont feel I need to rationalize why I buy clones as it seems pretty clear cut to me why I and others do...The same could go for people who buy Authentics only. The big thing is your buying something, its either expect quality or deal with some issues and those are the choices with some difference in price...Im not into politics or personal attachments to creators so I dont involve any of that when Im buying myself something....but thats just me.

If you read over what you've wrote there is some prejudice against Chinese Manufactures in there, I dont have that same feeling towards them...maybe thats the difference?

Oh yeah right Ray obvoiusly....anyone who doesn't agree with you is prejudice...pretty lame rationale.....Chinese manufactureres have been accused of alot of things, but quality has never been one of them.