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To Date which US Presidential candidate will you be voting for & why?
- Thread starter SMOKIE
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May we live in interesting times.....
Yeah, well we're just lucky it was Trump that got elected and not the hag, or else it wouldn't be twilight zone...it would be star wars. although her sidekick Hussien is doing a pretty good effort at starting another war.
Worse. He'd take credit for protecting us from the moon and then blame oil drilling and coal mining for the lack of tides and the earth wobbling out of control.
well duh......what next ... no proof of Obama being able to walk on water, or deliver on his promise of better international relationships with his enlightened anti-colonialist ass in the whitehouse.
nah, he'd blame it on America's ingrained white supremacy..
So it appears the propoganda machine by the left and their globalist masters has once again embarrassed themselves.....it appears that Natasha and Boris are making the DNC and particularly Obama look like moose and sqirrely......
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/01/01/russian-hacking-white-house-fail/
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/01/01/russian-hacking-white-house-fail/
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So it appears the propoganda machine by the left and their globalist masters has once again embarrassed themselves.....it appears that Natasha and Boris are making the DNC and particularly Obama look like moose and sqirrely......
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/01/01/russian-hacking-white-house-fail/
Agreed but have you seen the ARS repoNot even Fox news has picked it up as far as I have seen.
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Wordfence corroborates the ARS report
https://www.wordfence.com/blog/2016/12/russia-malware-ip-hack/
https://www.wordfence.com/blog/2016/12/russia-malware-ip-hack/
Can someone educate me on Isreal.....
The occupied territories? Are not the occupiers the Palistenians? At what point in history was there ever a Palistine to occupy?
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The occupied territories? Are not the occupiers the Palistenians? At what point in history was there ever a Palistine to occupy?
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Short answer is you don't want to know.
Long and complicated history in the region since time began. The entire area has always been a mess and was more a warring nomadic tribal region with cities than fixed and control was constantly changing. There are no easy answers and you can spend days on wikipedia trying to trace the history of the region to try and answer that question.
The Arabians, Romans/Bysantines, Crusaders, Ottomans, French, & British all occupied it at different times and the British tried to come up with various solutions after both world wars. They called it Palestine after WWI with the Palestinian Mandate & UN Created Israel after WWII with the Partition Plan out of parts of Mandatiory Palestine. Palestine/Isreal has always been in dispute.
Here is more than you ever wanted to know about the region and this is just the tip of the iceberg. (Aren't you glad you asked?).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Jerusalem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitioning_of_the_Ottoman_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_conflict
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Yeah I realize that... but history didn't start with the crusades or even the romans.. was there ever a Jewish or Palestinian state or rulership at any point in history prior to WW2.Short answer is you don't want to know.
Long and complicated history in the region since time began. The entire area has always been a mess and was more a warring nomadic tribal region with cities than fixed and control was constantly changing. There are no easy answers and you can spend days on wikipedia trying to trace the history of the region to try and answer that question.
The Arabians, Romans/Bysantines, Crusaders, Ottomans, French, & British all occupied it at different times and the British tried to come up with various solutions after both world wars. They called it Palestine after WWI with the Palestinian Mandate & UN Created Israel after WWII with the Partition Plan out of parts of Mandatiory Palestine. Palestine/Isreal has always been in dispute.
Here is more than you ever wanted to know about the region and this is just the tip of the iceberg. (Aren't you glad you asked?).
View attachment 70494View attachment 70499View attachment 70489View attachment 70490View attachment 70491
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Jerusalem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_conflict
Seems to me there were and the both the Jewish and Muslim faith are based on those rulerships....
So is all we are dealing with is a case of soar loosership. Is California going to be our Gaza strip...... I need to know cause I live there and need to prepare.
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Palestinians were first known as the Philistines. Look up Philistines /Philistine.
Only if your kooks out there start lobbing rockets.
are you crazy ...hell most of the people in SF and LA wouldn't know which end of a gun the bullet comes out of....there are some dipshits in Ca. pushing for Ca. to leave the US....personally I hope they are successfull...then that will allow northern Ca. to leave Ca. which it has wanted to do since the 1940's..it will allow the central valley to leave Ca. as well which voted for Trump as did the counties of the Sierra Madres.....in short it would leave the state of california as nothing more than a small sliver of costal elites who wouldn't be able to feed themselves.....take SF and LA outta the mix and California would have gone the same way the rest of america went....the elite of SF and LA are not california.
This was an interesting video that may or may not answer some of your questions..
I guess my real question.. which really doesn't need to be in this thread is..... What is the date in time that we should be using to determine who has the right to call a particular piece of this planet theirs. IF evolution is true..... Then we all migrated to wherever we are now...... We are all occupiers and invaders of the land we are in..
Seems to me most of the issue in the middle east (and rest of world) is tribalism and fights regarding religions. Tribalism... well thats just nature or evolution in action. The survival of the fittest thing. Humans being a heard or pack animal, depending on whether one sees us as prey or predator.
The religion part is the big issue. The solution is easy.. We all people just need to decide which religion we are to follow. I have a very broad definition if religion and athiesm, environmentalism, capitalism ect. fit it just as well as Judaism christianity and islamism. Just because the belief has no god doesn't prevent it from being a religion.
I guess the whole problem is that we are just not as evolved as we like to think we are.
California or more accurately the LA and SF metro areas....... have been lobbing rockets at the rest of us for years. Californai is a good analogy to the middle east issue. LA/SF being Gaza and West bank, The rest of California Isreal and the rest of US the middle eastern countries. It's all the same small groups of NUTS dictating life for everyone else.
OK....... so, palestinian is a PC term for Jihadists??? Palestine being a creation of the European invaders. The Jews being Egyptian migrants invading Arab lands. The islam vs Jewish thing is just a cover. As if it were truly about whose religion has right to the area. We would have to admit the Jews were there first.
Maybe trump can't do anything about immigration...... Some of the oldest societies in the world still haven't figured it out after thousand of years. You'd think we had evolved beyond sniffing each others butt and ownership being determined by who pissed on the tree last.
A one sided video, for sure.
It does not mention that the Jews were expelled from Israel. This is covered in both the bible and written(conventional) history.
The current dispute is a simple one. The return of the of a Jewish State. It doesn't matter what the people that were there call themselves. It only matters that they are being moved out and they don't want to move out. The rest of the history is moot but for the religious aspect.
It only stands to reason that when people are forced from their homes there will be resentment and they will fight back as best they can. What the movers and movees call themselves matters not unless the religious is accounted for and then it just gets weird. I've been told by christians that god said the jews were the chosen people and he gave Israel to the jews. The bible does say that. But, he later expelled the jews. And if christians believe jews are the chosen people, why are they christians? If a person believes jews are the chosen people, would it not make more sense to be a jew rather than a christian?
Anyway, when we take away the religious and past history as moot, Israel is an expansionary state using force to expel the current occupants. The rest is a means to convolute a pretty simple conflict.
Jesus was a JEW. This is why Christians for the most part respect the Jews. Judaism is the BASIS of Christianity. Without the Jews the christians would not exist. The Christian bible (as a whole, not just the parts approved by European leaders) being an addemdum to the jewish bible(s). Not a stand alone belief system or even conflicting belief system. Unlike Islam which is a creation specifically intended to counter judaism and by extent Christianity..
One has to leave religion out of the arguement. because the religious argument doesn't historically support the arab or palestinian claims. From a religious perspective the Arab muslims would be the invaders or insurgents or occupiers. As both Christain and Jewish land claims predate any muslim claim. That leaves race or ethnicity. in which case depending on whether Egyptians are Arab or not would make those claims invalid. The Jews being of Arab decent via Egypt and all. No the problem with Israel is about religion. and not much else. The Arab Muslims can't deal with the fact that the Arab Jews STILL exist. Even though the Jews were, anywhere, first.
I thought he did mentioon the roman disporia, maybe not the babylonian disporia....alot of the so called palastinians were not moved out they left .....they left when the arab leauge declared war on Isreal, they assumed that the arabs would roll over the jews they gambled and lost...they bet on the wrong side...I think it is an enlightening video in that it dispells the myth in alot of westeren minds that the Palastinians have been in Isreal for many generations..in fact alot of them if not most of them have been in Isreal no longer than the average zionist.I liked the fact they showed that the rich arabs in Isreal sold land to the zionists and then turned around and tried after taking the jews money to kick them out of Isreal...I like the fact that the head of the PLA himself stated that the term Palastinian was nothing more than a contrived term created by muslims who has a pan arab or jihadist world view to find the moral high ground to launch a political war on Isreal after realizing they couldn't win a military wars...I don't like the fact that they sort of hid the fact that it was the Rothschild banking cartel that pushed the Balflour agreement to create Isreal or that Churchills father was a friend of the Baron Rothschild.....as far as I can tell Isreal was jewish..they were kicked out of Isreal just like the chechnians were kicked out of chechnia...the land became something of a wasteland that nobody really wanted, their never was a place called palastine, the turks brought in arab muslims into the area when he saw the zionists were buying land and starting settlements...I'm personally not convinced this is an issue about land...I think after looking at the conquest of the middle east by the muslims the conquest and eradication of christanity and judisim, and zorosatrianisim throughout the region that this conflict has more to do with the muslim conquest than it has to do with palastinaians... after all the jordainas have killed more palasinians than the isrealis have...and nobody gave a rat's ass.regardless I see no peacefull solution...
It may not be the best video, but I couldn't find any that told the history farther back than WWII which is totally slanted or before the WWI and the Atta turk....again that is not the whole story either.
Christanity in the ME predated Islam by centuries and yet the great christian centers of Alexandria,Damascus,Antioch and many others were wiped out and destroyed by Islam zorosatrianism was driven underground in Iran...I think it is niavee to think Islam would tolerate the existence of any other culture in the ME and that is the prime motivator in the Isreali conflict.
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I agree with most of what you say, but I don't think Christ was an expression of judisim I think that was an accident of birth...he had to be born somewhere...I think the spiritual heritage of Jesus was not jewish...what he taught is more aligned with zorosatrianism, buhhdisim, or even the mystery schools of eygpt than it does judisim.after all Jesus disappeared from the radar for twenty years..who knows where he studied and with who. Like prince Sidharta Jesus's teachings are a product of his own enlightement.
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See this is the problem.. we like to selectively skip time when regarding history.... If history is correct... he was born to jewish parents and raised as a jew. The majority of his followers were Jews. I would say the basis of his spiritual heritage, is likely jewish. Just like BO????????
I also agree on what you say about what HE taught. Which is why christians don't use the Tora, but rather the Old testament. I am pretty much in line with you on the Missing Years. He definately was influenced by teachings others than JUST the jewish teachings he grew up with. There are people than would argue Budha and Jesus are the same person. I've even heard theories that Jesus and Mohamed are one in the same. See being the Son of GOD, wouldn't limit one to one lifetime, IMO.
Thats why it's called FAITH... Those drawings, in the dirt of Peru were put there, for someone to see.
GOD if there is, one, has a strange sense of humor or is just an ass-hole. Either way it probably best to stay on his/her good side..... Thats what I believe.
Bottom line is in thousands of years they are unable to fathom the concept of a state government that is not sectarian in nature with religious freedom. Because the state calls itself a Jewish state, it will always be in conflict.
Islamic extremists will always fight someone, even themselves as their goal is to rule the world. They have been fighting and dying for most of history. If they just lived in peace, stayed home & made babies they might have accomplished that by populating the world.
Christianity was invented and allowed to grow by Constantine in an effort to convert more extreme thinking to a unified belief system that would allow peaceful coexistence in the area rather than the constant violence he had to quell. It failed to accomplish its goal in the region, but did grow to populate the world.
If Walt Disney had bought the entire place and renamed it Disney World (with religious freedom) you would have a much better chance of having peace in the Middle East, but it is much more likely that these lunatics would be strapping on suicide vests to blow up mickey mouse.
Islamic extremists will always fight someone, even themselves as their goal is to rule the world. They have been fighting and dying for most of history. If they just lived in peace, stayed home & made babies they might have accomplished that by populating the world.
Christianity was invented and allowed to grow by Constantine in an effort to convert more extreme thinking to a unified belief system that would allow peaceful coexistence in the area rather than the constant violence he had to quell. It failed to accomplish its goal in the region, but did grow to populate the world.
If Walt Disney had bought the entire place and renamed it Disney World (with religious freedom) you would have a much better chance of having peace in the Middle East, but it is much more likely that these lunatics would be strapping on suicide vests to blow up mickey mouse.
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I bought 5 acres on an indian reservation. I own that five acres. It doesn't give me title to the rest of the reservation. That Jews bought a portion of the land does not give them title to the region. They have since used force to obtain the rest. The Arabs were there, the zionists used force to take the land that was not sold. Generations don't matter.
The land is still a wasteland nobody wants. Israel is a welfare state. The argument put forth that jews made the land productive is laughable. The palistinians would look pretty good too if all the world gave it aid to build settlements, an army, an industry and everything else. Israel cannot survive without outside aid.
Of course the Turks brought in Arab immigrants. The Zionists were flooding the region with jewish immigrants. That's what I mean about a one sided video. They use Turkish and Egyptian immigration but don't mention that it was in response to massive jewish immigration. In fact, the zionists, when relocating concentration camp jews after WW2 were supposed to offer jews a choice of immigrating to the US or Israel often only gave the choice of immigrating to Israel. Many of those immigrants would have prefered to immigrate to the US.
The Israel issue is a land grab. Always has been. Hell, they used to send tractors out to plow palistinian fields so that the arabs would shoot at it and they could then send in the army to take the area for "security". When I get time to find it I'll post a link for you that details some of these actions. A jewish link.
It was also a land grab because of constant violence and efforts to erase the state from existence by the arabs. If it was merely a land grab, they never would have given Egypt back the Sinai Peninsula in 1981. Granted, it was mostly worthless desert, but they did it to secure a lasting peace. This lasting peace has never and will never occur.
so who do the jews give it back to..the romans, the turks or the british....cause there was no palstine.
Violence instigated by the Israelis. It has always been a tactic of Israel. Was then and is now.
In Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharatt’s personal diaries, there is an excerpt from May of 1955 in which he quotes Moshe Dayan as follows: “[Israel] must see the sword as the main, if not the only, instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Toward this end it may, no — it must — invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocation-and-revenge...And above all — let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space.”
Meh. They took it from somebody, yes?
The point is that Israel is an expansionary State, taken mostly by force and of course the Arabs are going to hate them for it. They are still expanding.
I'm sorry, Israels conflict is self inflicted. Always has been, still is. Years of western favoritism and pro Israel propaganda does not change that despite the best efforts of the media and politicians to produce a common lie.
OK so who did they take it from
Why..the Arab world doesn't give a fuck the muslim turks took land from the armenians,or land in the balkans,or pakistan for that matter from India.Islam is a political system that preaches expansionisim
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it has been a tactic of both sides.
Whether the name was created after the land grab or not, the land was taken from the palistinians. They lived there. The Israelis did not.
I don't see the point in arguing about the origin of the palistinians. It's like saying europeans didn't take land from the indians in the US because technically there were no indians, they were called comanche and sioux and other names. It's semantic.
not quite.....the muslim temple mount is built on the top off a jewish temple...what did the jews do...slip it under the temple mount when nobody was looking....you have a valid point, but the idea there is no historical reason for jews to return to Isreal , or that jews did not create a kingdom and culture in isreal doesn't make sense.
This year we saw the total annihilation of one of the oldest and largest christian communities in the world the christians of Syria....I think the Jews of Isreal long ago saw that there was no way to avoid that same fate if they lived in a muslim occupied middle east ..that the one state solution was impossible.
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That doesn't add up. Only one side gains land.
Maybe you have an example of Israel being provoked in order for the palisitnians to take land?
They were certainly not the sole instigators of that violence. The attacks and massing for military conflict with calls for their destruction were there from the beginning.
Don't get me wrong, I agree they have always been expansionist & opportunistic and will always be, but they have made remarkable concessions of settlements and territory in the name of peace on many occasions. Each time they do, it is corrupted by new acts of violence from those who wish to destroy them.
Had the Palestinians accepted any of those Peace concessions over the years as adequate it would have offered a chance for peace. Instead they launch new attacks giving Isreal the excuse to respond militarily (which they do brilliantly), seize territory, settle and annex more territory each time.
What do they say about the definition of Insanity?
becuase only one side kept losing.
Bullshit. If you take 30,000 homes and bulldoze them to make your own homes and then make the "remarkable concession" to give back 30% of the land I don't see that as being very sincere. LOL.
When I was in high school someone broke into my truck and stole all my tapes(cassettes). I found who did it. I didn't settle for 30% of them back. I beat ass until I got them all back.
Israel has rejected the 1967 lines since, well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1967.
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The jews as a country were expelled. That they had been there before is irrelevant. Ancient history. Or do you propose all us non natives move out of the Americas?
Using ancient history to rationalize a current conflict doesn't work for me.
The Israelis are expanding in current times. They are and have been displacing the people that are and were there in current history.
The arabs have a legitimate, current complaint. They have been and are being run out of their own houses. That has nothing to do with a fallen ancient temple.
Much of this has happened in my lifetime. Nearly all of it has happened in one generation(less than 100 years).
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You mean the 1967 lines from when they were being shelled by Palestinian guerrilla groups from the West Bank, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan with massive troop buildups in those areas and Egypt mobilized their army into the the Sinai to the border as well and all those countries and Iraq signed a military pact. The Arabs were getting ready to attack and Eliminate Israel just as they attempted in 1948 and you know that.
Instead, Israel launched a surprise attack in the Six Day War that captured The Sinai, Gaza, The West Bank, Jerusalem and had them poised to march into Damascus and Cairo. I would say the Camp David Accords & Israel's return of territory to all parties after being attacked time & again was more than generous in return for recognizing Isreal's Right to Exist.
After doing so, Israel had a right to expect the Arab world & Palestinians to live up to the agreements. Instead each time they attempt a negotiated Peace & the Palestinians win a diplomatic victory, they renewed attacks rather than continue the process peacefully to its end and they lost more & more of it each time.
You are not going to get a lot of sympathy from me for the Palestinians plight.
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I could give a shit less about the palestinians plight, just as I give shit less about the Israelites plight. It's like taking sides between the bloods and the cripts. If we weren't their wallet and backup I wouldn't give Israel and Palestine a second look. I'd have as much knowledge about Israel as I do Congo.
I'm simply saying israel can cry all they want, they had and have their own hand in in the bed they are making. Fuck em. In my world, you don't get to start a fight and then cry when you've been hit back. I sure as hell have no interest in spending my countries resources on the nasty bastards.Try as you might you can't change the facts. The history is clear for those that wish to take off the neocon glass's of favoritism. Much of the history of Israel in the west is revisionist history. For Hell's sake, even the many of the prominent and fundamentalist jews of the time can see it, many being those that lived in the region.
“Albert Einstein — ‘I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish State. Apart from practical considerations, my awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish State,with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain’...
“Professor Erich Fromm, a noted Jewish writer and thinker, [stated]...’In general international law, the principle holds true that no citizen loses his property or his rights of citizenship; and the citizenship right is de facto a right to which the Arabs in Israel have much more legitimacy than the Jews. Just because the Arabs fled? Since when is that punishable by confiscation of property, and by being barred from returning to the land on which a people’s forefathers have lived for generations? Thus, the claim of the Jews to the land of Israel cannot be a realistic claim. If all nations would suddenly claim territory in which their forefathers had lived two thousand years ago, this world would be a madhouse...I believe that, politically speaking, there is only one solution for Israel, namely, the unilateral acknowledgement of the obligation of the State towards the Arabs — not to use it as a bargaining point, but to acknowledge the complete moral obligation of the Israeli State to its former inhabitants of Palestine’...
“Nathan Chofshi — ‘Only an internal revolution can have the power to heal our people of their murderous sickness of causeless hatred...It is bound to bring complete ruin upon us. Only then will the old and young in our land realize how great was our responsibility to those miserable Arab refugees in whose towns we have settled Jews who were brought here from afar; whose homes we have inherited, whose fields we now sow and harvest; the fruits of whose gardens, orchards and vineyards we gather; and in whose cities that we robbed we put up houses of education, charity, and prayer, while we babble and rave about being the “People of the Book” and the “light of the nations”’...
“In an article published in the Washington Post of 3 October 1978, Rabbi Hirsch (of Jerusalem) is reported to have declared: ‘The 12th principle of our faith, I believe, is that the Messiah will gather the Jewish exiled who are dispersed throughout the nations of the world. Zionism is diametrically opposed to Judaism. Zionism wishes to define the Jewish people as a nationalistic entity. The Zionists say, in effect, ‘Look here, God. We do not like exile. Take us back, and if you don’t, we’ll just roll up our sleeves and take ourselves back.’ ‘The Rabbi continues: ‘This, of course, is heresy. The Jewish people are charged by Divine oath not to force themselves back to the Holy Land against the wishes of those residing there.’” Sami Hadawi, “Bitter Harvest.”
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