Tobacco Recipes & Creams

[EarnestAccord]

I've been mixing for over 2 years now and only just recently ventured into Tobacco concentrates. About 2 months ago I bought TPA RY4 Double and really liked it. It plays extremely well with other flavors and have mixed it with a dozen or so different Creams, Fruits and Dessert flavors. I recently purchased a few more Tobaccos, trying to choose the most varied Non-Aromatic profiles.
INWA Garuda TA
TPA Western
FA 7-Leaves
HS RY1
FLV Cured Tobacco
FLV Classic Tobacco
SC M-Style
I have done a full round of single flavor testings, dialed those in a bit and from those played a bit with mixing the testers with each other, just to see how they compliment each other. I dove in last weekend and made my first set of recipes. Keeping it simple I essentially choose TPA Bavarian Cream, FA Fresh Cream, FA Vienna Cream and FA Vanilla Bourbon. All used at 1%. All the above Tobaccos were used seperately, were paired with a single cream and all got some Vanilla. I let them all sit for 3 days (I know way longer is better), just enough to homogenize them. Sorry for the length, just want to give all the back ground. The problem is the majority of the Tobacco notes that I tasted during single testing are gone. Some of the flavors, like 7-leaves, RY1 & Garuda have all but dissapeared. What gives? I'm assuming it's the Creams that have muted them, but I've never experienced this extreme of a change. I'm about ready to just double all my %'s, but thought maybe I'd check with you all first. I've always thought the long steep required for tobaccos was to mellow them out, not bring them forward, right? Is this typical of tobaccos?
Thanks for the support

 

[HondaDavidson]

I've been mixing for over 2 years now and only just recently ventured into Tobacco concentrates. About 2 months ago I bought TPA RY4 Double and really liked it. It plays extremely well with other flavors and have mixed it with a dozen or so different Creams, Fruits and Dessert flavors. I recently purchased a few more Tobaccos, trying to choose the most varied Non-Aromatic profiles.
INWA Garuda TA
TPA Western
FA 7-Leaves
HS RY1
FLV Cured Tobacco
FLV Classic Tobacco
SC M-Style
I have done a full round of single flavor testings, dialed those in a bit and from those played a bit with mixing the testers with each other, just to see how they compliment each other. I dove in last weekend and made my first set of recipes. Keeping it simple I essentially choose TPA Bavarian Cream, FA Fresh Cream, FA Vienna Cream and FA Vanilla Bourbon. All used at 1%. All the above Tobaccos were used seperately, were paired with a single cream and all got some Vanilla. I let them all sit for 3 days (I know way longer is better), just enough to homogenize them. Sorry for the length, just want to give all the back ground. The problem is the majority of the Tobacco notes that I tasted during single testing are gone. Some of the flavors, like 7-leaves, RY1 & Garuda have all but dissapeared. What gives? I'm assuming it's the Creams that have muted them, but I've never experienced this extreme of a change. I'm about ready to just double all my %'s, but thought maybe I'd check with you all first. I've always thought the long steep required for tobaccos was to mellow them out, not bring them forward, right? Is this typical of tobaccos?
Thanks for the support

Some tobacco flavor aspect recede and some come forward with steeping. Just like with nearly all non tobaccos. And like other flavoring different blends can lead to different results....



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[jambi]

I'd be interested to know what percentages you're dialed in at with the tobaccos single flavor. I almost hesitate to post this as my tastes seem to differ so much from the status quo, but what the hell....

Getting to "creamy" with tobaccos, for me, more frequently involves vanillas and TFA VBIC than the straight creams.

For example with the sweet creams, CAP is pretty weak, by the time you've added enough to get to creamy, you're obliterating other notes, and I get a lot of muting and "cheese" from TFA. I actually like FW's version because it has good "mouth feel" and seems to not flatten out other flavors like CAP/TFA, and that's the one I use in recipes calling for sweet cream. I sub it for TFA/CAP equal ratio. You might think "Eh, all sweet creams are the same" but they aren't. I recommend picking up all 3 and doing a comparison, to really get the gist of what I'm saying.

FA's fresh is a decent "milk", but it lacks the "creamy weight" and mouth feel that you'll want from a cream. I generally sub Flavorah's Cream (excellent) for FA Fresh, but FA is what I use when I'm looking for "milk". I think it works better than FA Condensed/TFA Dairy, and I'll (again) sub it for those with good results.

FA Vienna...so many great things I've read about this flavor. HIC's flavor notes imply it should be extremely useful. I must have a different Vienna Cream, or a bad batch, or not using it correctly, or I'm just way too far gone on the diketone train to appreciate it. What I mainly get from it is paint thinner aroma and harshness, which is strange, because it doesn't seem to bring any weight to a mix. Smelling the bottle now, the Ethyl (or something) is pretty eye-watering. User error, bad batch, whatever, I wish I knew how to use this one. Suggestions?

FA Bourbon Vanilla...interesting you mentioned that one. I get pretty heavy Acetyl Pyrazine or something else nutty from it. It's damned bold for a vanilla, though I could see it working well with heavier tobaccos. Again, suggestions? I'd be interested to hear details on how you're using it.

TFA Bavarian is a solid flavor that I use a lot as a bakery/fruit accent, but I've found it a bit weak to stand up to bolder tobaccos. It might just be me having issues detecting this particular flavor, but it's just really light, faintly creamy vanilla to me. TFA VBIC does a much better job. It has nice "weight" that can be almost felt in a mix. A good example of how it can work with tobaccos is DCM8's excellent clone of Villain Vapors Capone.

Caramel Original (TFA), 3.00%
RY4 Double (TFA), 4.00%
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (TFA), 8.00%
Western (TFA), 3.00%

You'd think that at 8% the VBIC will be wiping out everything else, but if you consider the other flavors as a single flavor at 10 %, you end up with a good example ratio. The Western is actually the dominant flavor. What the VBIC seems to be doing is laying down a super creamy base that rounds out and "thickens" the others. Since you're already playing with the Western, give it a try if you haven't already.

If you want to get to "creaminess" without introducing anything dairy-like or vanilla, FA Meringue will work, but with tobaccos it might also bring more sweetness than you'd want (or maybe you want that). At any rate, use sparingly.

One of my favorite vanillas for tobacco is Nude Nicotine Patchouli Vanilla. There's really nothing "creamy" about its solo profile, but it does something when combined with certain tobaccos that imparts creaminess. Works really well with NNs tobaccos and others. Normally I don't like honey tobacco, but I love NN Honey Tobac 1%, Patchouli 4%.

SC Tobaccos. Some of them are really good. Their Cohiba and Black & Mild are excellent. But others are ornery as hell. Arabic is just Bed Bath & Beyond floral and soapy even at 1%, and I get harshness and metal from several others even at fractions of 1%, but I like the base flavors of all of them. I just wish they were a bit less super concentrated.

FLV Cured...really nice, interesting flavor. Haven't gotten around to FLV's other tobac's yet, but I'm working on it, and if they're as good as Flue Cured, I'll be having fun. Main issue I have with Flue Cured is it seems to be massively fade-prone, but I still like it... FLV Cured 4%, INW Shisha Vanilla 1.5%. Wait a week, nice mellow Cured, wait longer, faintly tobaccoish VG.

Sorry, more Q's than A's.

 

[EarnestAccord]

I'd be interested to know what percentages you're dialed in at with the tobaccos single flavor. I almost hesitate to post this as my tastes seem to differ so much from the status quo, but what the hell....

Getting to "creamy" with tobaccos, for me, more frequently involves vanillas and TFA VBIC than the straight creams.

For example with the sweet creams, CAP is pretty weak, by the time you've added enough to get to creamy, you're obliterating other notes, and I get a lot of muting and "cheese" from TFA. I actually like FW's version because it has good "mouth feel" and seems to not flatten out other flavors like CAP/TFA, and that's the one I use in recipes calling for sweet cream. I sub it for TFA/CAP equal ratio. You might think "Eh, all sweet creams are the same" but they aren't. I recommend picking up all 3 and doing a comparison, to really get the gist of what I'm saying.

FA's fresh is a decent "milk", but it lacks the "creamy weight" and mouth feel that you'll want from a cream. I generally sub Flavorah's Cream (excellent) for FA Fresh, but FA is what I use when I'm looking for "milk". I think it works better than FA Condensed/TFA Dairy, and I'll (again) sub it for those with good results.

FA Vienna...so many great things I've read about this flavor. HIC's flavor notes imply it should be extremely useful. I must have a different Vienna Cream, or a bad batch, or not using it correctly, or I'm just way too far gone on the diketone train to appreciate it. What I mainly get from it is paint thinner aroma and harshness, which is strange, because it doesn't seem to bring any weight to a mix. Smelling the bottle now, the Ethyl (or something) is pretty eye-watering. User error, bad batch, whatever, I wish I knew how to use this one. Suggestions?

FA Bourbon Vanilla...interesting you mentioned that one. I get pretty heavy Acetyl Pyrazine or something else nutty from it. It's damned bold for a vanilla, though I could see it working well with heavier tobaccos. Again, suggestions? I'd be interested to hear details on how you're using it.

TFA Bavarian is a solid flavor that I use a lot as a bakery/fruit accent, but I've found it a bit weak to stand up to bolder tobaccos. It might just be me having issues detecting this particular flavor, but it's just really light, faintly creamy vanilla to me. TFA VBIC does a much better job. It has nice "weight" that can be almost felt in a mix. A good example of how it can work with tobaccos is DCM8's excellent clone of Villain Vapors Capone.

Caramel Original (TFA), 3.00%
RY4 Double (TFA), 4.00%
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (TFA), 8.00%
Western (TFA), 3.00%

You'd think that at 8% the VBIC will be wiping out everything else, but if you consider the other flavors as a single flavor at 10 %, you end up with a good example ratio. The Western is actually the dominant flavor. What the VBIC seems to be doing is laying down a super creamy base that rounds out and "thickens" the others. Since you're already playing with the Western, give it a try if you haven't already.

If you want to get to "creaminess" without introducing anything dairy-like or vanilla, FA Meringue will work, but with tobaccos it might also bring more sweetness than you'd want (or maybe you want that). At any rate, use sparingly.

One of my favorite vanillas for tobacco is Nude Nicotine Patchouli Vanilla. There's really nothing "creamy" about its solo profile, but it does something when combined with certain tobaccos that imparts creaminess. Works really well with NNs tobaccos and others. Normally I don't like honey tobacco, but I love NN Honey Tobac 1%, Patchouli 4%.

SC Tobaccos. Some of them are really good. Their Cohiba and Black & Mild are excellent. But others are ornery as hell. Arabic is just Bed Bath & Beyond floral and soapy even at 1%, and I get harshness and metal from several others even at fractions of 1%, but I like the base flavors of all of them. I just wish they were a bit less super concentrated.

FLV Cured...really nice, interesting flavor. Haven't gotten around to FLV's other tobac's yet, but I'm working on it, and if they're as good as Flue Cured, I'll be having fun. Main issue I have with Flue Cured is it seems to be massively fade-prone, but I still like it... FLV Cured 4%, INW Shisha Vanilla 1.5%. Wait a week, nice mellow Cured, wait longer, faintly tobaccoish VG.

Sorry, more Q's than A's.

Hey, thanks for replying! Any discussion surrounding Tobaccos are hard to come by.


I did eventually did double my single note percentages. I can't really say I can taste the creams with Tobaccos, but they definitely round out their notes a lot. I think it was my initial shock, when I had only tasted them all as solo. Tobaccos solo are crazy complex! Creams definitely do bring mouth feel though.

I'm not the best descriptor of flavors but I'll try to add my take on the ones I'm currently working on.


INWA Garuda TA .......... 1%

Very authentic dark tobacco leaf flavor. I've not had a "pipe" style tobacco yet, but this to me comes really close. It's has a real moist/wet flavor to it that when taken a bit higher than above border lines of Pouch Chewing Tobacco.


TPA Western ............. 0.5%

Wow! Potent stuff. Everything I've read said use it at much higher percentages, but it's flavor is so distinct I had to back it off. Taste kinda leathery, woodsy and almost oily. Bit of an Ash note and not really sure how to use this yet.

FA 7-Leaves .............. 0.75%

The spice Star Anise jumps out at me with this one. Has some lighter tobacco notes, the typical dry leaf, hay type notes. It's fairly sweet on it's own. Steeps real well.



HS RY1 ........................ 8%

I can't seem to get any distinctive flavor from this one. A bit of dry leaf and hay. It's good I just can't get it to pop out.


FLV Cured Tobacco .. 0.5%

Good natural leaf tobacco flavor. Pretty spicy a tad bit ashy. Definitely fades at the 3+ week mark. Is this the same as "Flue Cured" that everybody talks about? I only see just "cured" on their website and on vendors.


FLV Classic Tobacco . 0.5%

Not a fan. Similar to Cured but has a strong Ashy note as well. It also has a weird green bell pepper taste to it that is real off putting. Fear, the tobacco expert over at OTF claims he tastes that not in all FA tobaccos. I don't pick up anything remotely like that in 7-Leaves, but thats my only FA Tobacco currently.


SC M-Style ................ 0.5%

Very sweet, dark, moist leaf type note. Also boarders on Pouch Chewing Tobacco at higher percentages. I've identified this one to be a good base for a "from scratch" RY4.



Obviously my percentages are far below most mixers'. Dunno what that's about. I do run a mostly flavor chasers' set-up and I'm like this with most all other flavor profiles as well.


Sweet Cream:

I only have CAP. Though you've got me intrigued with other brands. I find it to be very "cheesy" when used as a main. I use it for very specific flavor profiles like Yogurts, Cheesecakes and some bakeries. My experience with it made it not be a contender as a Tobacco cream, though maybe FW.


FA Fresh Cream:

Yes I'd agree probably not heavy enough to add good mouth feel. I really didn't detect it at all in my previous mixes.


FA Vienna Cream:

It does smell somewhat solvent like out of the bottle. Mixed and it is wonderful. The solvent smell is what I've always related to its "spiced" characteristic. Ooh, and I just thinking that would go great with FA's 7-Leaves. It already has a kind of Anise type note to it.


As you've pointed out I have yet to really taste any Creams in my tobacco mixes. Mostly they round out some of the spicier tobacco notes and give a denser mouth feel. I have not taken them as high as you have though.


FA Vanilla Bourbon:

Most definately has a darker nut like quality to it. Don't taste AP per say, not quite as grainy, but something quite similar. I definitely taste this in the tobacco. Probably because there is nothing remotely similar to a vanilla in my current Tobacco line-up. Well excluding TPA RY4 Double.


NN Vanilla Patchouly:

Yes! Someone else who knows the wonders of this concentrate. I've been using it for years, one of the first flavors I purchased. I haven't thought to put it into a Tobacco. It's a key player in one of my favorite Vanilla Custard recipes. I've read that it's magic is due to the NN actually using real Patchouly molecules in it and Patchouly is a well known/used "fixative" in a perfumers arsenal. Thanks for the reminder I will definitely use it in a tobacco.


Creams I want to use now after my first round:

TPA Cheesecake (graham cracker)

FA Catalan Cream

FA Merengue

FLV Custard


So thats all about I know right now with Tobaccos. It's actually really fun to be exploring flavors again like when I just started DIY. I've also been diving into florals as well. My wife is a new vaper and actually enjoys them more than your typical profiles. They're different, but I'm definitely intrigued and can't say they're bad. Don't think I'll use any of them though, with tobaccos.

 

[John C]

Ive always used NET extracts when mixing tobacco juices. Searching here and on google will turn up some good vendors. Ive not done much mixing with non-tobacco flavors and NETs though

 

[Hillbilly Pig]

FA Vienna...so many great things I've read about this flavor. HIC's flavor notes imply it should be extremely useful. I must have a different Vienna Cream, or a bad batch, or not using it correctly, or I'm just way too far gone on the diketone train to appreciate it. What I mainly get from it is paint thinner aroma and harshness, which is strange, because it doesn't seem to bring any weight to a mix. Smelling the bottle now, the Ethyl (or something) is pretty eye-watering. User error, bad batch, whatever, I wish I knew how to use this one. Suggestions?

That sucks, Vienna is just so good, and indispensable in my collection. I'm hoping maybe you got a bad batch, cause that flavor tends to get some bad batches here and there. Though it tends to not be a standalone and it works real good when paired with a fruit and a vanilla. I find it really shines at a lower wattage, as at higher levels it kinda turns bland to me, but tastes vary. So maybe when you order your next batch of flavors get another bottle to see if you did indeed get a botched batch, perhaps?

 

[jambi]

That sucks, Vienna is just so good, and indispensable in my collection. I'm hoping maybe you got a bad batch, cause that flavor tends to get some bad batches here and there. Though it tends to not be a standalone and it works real good when paired with a fruit and a vanilla. I find it really shines at a lower wattage, as at higher levels it kinda turns bland to me, but tastes vary. So maybe when you order your next batch of flavors get another bottle to see if you did indeed get a botched batch, perhaps?

I reordered a 10 ml, this time from BCF. Smells similar to, though not as potent as, the 60 ml I already have. It's been sitting here already a week. I'll take your advice and do some vanilla and fruit pairings with both batches, see how it turns out. It does seem to work better if I let it breathe for a few hours. That's not a normal part of steeping for me, but in the case of this flavor it may be necessary. It also may have to do with me associating "cream" with diketones that Vienna Cream lacks.

 

[Hillbilly Pig]

I reordered a 10 ml, this time from BCF. Smells similar to, though not as potent as, the 60 ml I already have. It's been sitting here already a week. I'll take your advice and do some vanilla and fruit pairings with both batches, see how it turns out. It does seem to work better for me if I let it breathe for a few hours. That's not a normal part of steeping for me, but in the case of this flavor it may be necessary. It also may have to do with me associating "cream" with diketones that Vienna Cream lacks.

Yeah Vienna cream needs a good bit of breathing before adding it to stuff, there's a few other flavors like that (FA cola as an example) Hope things go better this time around, it is way too nice a flavor to not be able to enjoy