Tonight is the night (first mix)

[Badfrog]

I could use any last minute advice you folks could give me........

1) Judging by videos, it looks like most folks put the flavoring in the bottle first, then your VG and PG and then the Nic? Does it really matter what order you go in?

2) I would assume it's more than fine to throw nicotine in later on down the road (after it sits for a few a week or two)? I'd like my wife to perhaps be able to try some of this stuff and she doesn't use nic.

3) I seem to get/vape 80/20 VG/PG ratios and it suits me just fine. I would assume that would be a good starting point? I'm not sure how important it really is compared to the recipe given.

I'm going to start with a 2 flavor Cherry Coke and a 2 flavor "Muffin Man" clone. Since they don't have any cream or custard in the components do I need to worry about letting them sit for a week+ before trying? Or can I go ahead and shake and vape? If I do that, will I get a general idea if they are worth a darned and worth keeping around?

I do have a Mother's Milk recipe and I'll probably let that sit for a few days before I bother trying it. My game plan is to just make 15ml of each juice since this is my first venture. I'm really hoping I can get close to Muffin Man because I absolutely love that stuff and vape on it all the time.

Lastly, I'd like to give a nod to the Amazon shipper that apparently damaged the small funnels and pippettes in my shipment. Fortunately I did order a syringe kit and that should get me by tonight since I'm not mixing any large batches.

 

[Heabob]

1) Judging by videos, it looks like most folks put the flavoring in the bottle first, then your VG and PG and then the Nic? Does it really matter what order you go in?

I use the same order myself but it's not real critical IMO.

But if you add NIC later it will need to steep again unless you really shake the crap out of it.

And be sure to shake flavors and NIC well before mixing.

I don't try vaping anything that hasn't set for at least 24hrs, even though I'm running 80% PG.

 

[AndriaD]

1) Judging by videos, it looks like most folks put the flavoring in the bottle first, then your VG and PG and then the Nic? Does it really matter what order you go in?

I always mix the PG, VG, and nic first, just because they're listed first in the recipe (http://ecigvape.com/recipes.php?user=crypticvapes) but it doesn't really matter -- what matters is to keep to the same order that you get used to; once you're in the habit of mixing the same recipe all the time, stick to the same order, that way you don't get "lost" if some nimrod interrupts you (as my husband has done once or twice... till my screaming dissuaded him from doing that again ) I even put the flavors away in the proper order; it makes things easier at mixing time.

2) I would assume it's more than fine to throw nicotine in later on down the road (after it sits for a few a week or two)? I'd like my wife to perhaps be able to try some of this stuff and she doesn't use nic.

I guess you could, but the PG and/or VG content of your mix includes whatever your nicotine is in, so leaving it out of the mix will slightly alter your PG/VG ratio -- for those like you who use ghastly amounts of VG, that may not matter, but for me, it would -- I can only vape something that's 85%-87% PG, and any variation of that would cause me a serious problem.

3) I seem to get/vape 80/20 VG/PG ratios and it suits me just fine. I would assume that would be a good starting point? I'm not sure how important it really is compared to the recipe given.

Don't worry about whatever ratio the recipe-writer used -- use the ratio that suits YOU -- as you can obviously tell from my above-comments about PG, I can't vape anything except very high PG, regardless of what anyone else uses.

Andria

 

[NGAHaze]

The Cherry Coke mix should probably be okay to shake and vape although, depending on the percentages used of each, one flavor will likely dominate initially. This is especially true of bakery type mixes, imho. I need to let those sit for a day or two before I even bother tasting them.

 

[Badfrog]

I always mix the PG, VG, and nic first, just because they're listed first in the recipe (http://ecigvape.com/recipes.php?user=crypticvapes) but it doesn't really matter -- what matters is to keep to the same order that you get used to; once you're in the habit of mixing the same recipe all the time, stick to the same order, that way you don't get "lost" if some nimrod interrupts you (as my husband has done once or twice... till my screaming dissuaded him from doing that again ) I even put the flavors away in the proper order; it makes things easier at mixing time.




I guess you could, but the PG and/or VG content of your mix includes whatever your nicotine is in, so leaving it out of the mix will slightly alter your PG/VG ratio -- for those like you who use ghastly amounts of VG, that may not matter, but for me, it would -- I can only vape something that's 85%-87% PG, and any variation of that would cause me a serious problem.




Don't worry about whatever ratio the recipe-writer used -- use the ratio that suits YOU -- as you can obviously tell from my above-comments about PG, I can't vape anything except very high PG, regardless of what anyone else uses.

Andria

Ah, I didn't even think about altering the VG/PG ratio with the addition of nic down the road. Based on what you and Heabob said, I'll either mix the nic in from the get go or leave it out altogether. I'll keep these first two small batches nic free so myself and the wife can try them out especially since they are such small batches.

Good note about keeping track of what's already gone into the mix and doing the same thing every time. I'll line up the bottles to my right and as I get done using them I'll put them to the left. Thanks!

 

[AndriaD]

Ah, I didn't even think about altering the VG/PG ratio with the addition of nic down the road. Based on what you and Heabob said, I'll either mix the nic in from the get go or leave it out altogether. I'll keep these first two small batches nic free so myself and the wife can try them out especially since they are such small batches.

Keep in mind that the nicotine will have a slight impact on the taste -- it's kind of bitter, so the higher your nic level, the more sweetener you'll need, to compensate -- and vice-versa. Also, the throat hit (TH): some people hate it; some can't do without it. Although it's true that high PG will help to reinforce good TH, TH comes primarily from nicotine, so it will vary with the nic level -- and obviously, without any nic, there won't be much if any throat hit -- though that can often depend on the flavors, too. I've even tried a mix without nicotine, but WITH "Flash", the additive I use to increase TH, and without any nic at all, even Flash won't really provide it.

Andria

 

[Badfrog]

Keep in mind that the nicotine will have a slight impact on the taste -- it's kind of bitter, so the higher your nic level, the more sweetener you'll need, to compensate -- and vice-versa. Also, the throat hit (TH): some people hate it; some can't do without it. Although it's true that high PG will help to reinforce good TH, TH comes primarily from nicotine, so it will vary with the nic level -- and obviously, without any nic, there won't be much if any throat hit -- though that can often depend on the flavors, too. I've even tried a mix without nicotine, but WITH "Flash", the additive I use to increase TH, and without any nic at all, even Flash won't really provide it.

Andria

Sweetener is something I've seen mentioned but exactly what product is it? I'm assuming it's something you can buy that's similar to your flavorings?

I only vape at 3 nic for what it's worth. I tried vaping some juice a while ago that was 1.5 nic and it just didn't do it for me so I'll have to realize that as I'm trying these mixes that won't have nic.

 

[Carambrda]

Adding the VG/PG last is merely a convenience thing because, once you've already calculated how much juice you're going to end up with, if your mixing bottle is the kind that's got measuring stripes printed on it, then you can just keep pouring the VG/PG on top of the flavorings (and optional nic base) until you've reached the calculated amount. If I wanted to add the nic base later, I would simply subtract the desired amount of nic base from the calculated total (the amount of juice), and, next, keep pouring the VG/PG until I'd reach that amount. Finally, I would then be able to still choose later whether to add the nic base or to just add VG/PG instead. Or, alternatively, divide the bottle into two separate bottles, like, for example, take 1/4 of the content, transfer that to a smaller bottle, then multiply the originally calculated amount of nic base by 3/4 and add that to the original bottle─as well as multiply that same originally calculated amount by 1/4 to find out how much VG/PG to add to the smaller one. So doing it later doesn't take that much extra effort. But you'd probably have to let it steep again a little bit... so if your plan is to divide your mix into different nic levels, then you might also consider doing so immediately from the start.

I like high VG myself so yeah, for me 80/20 would be around perfect. Less than 70 percent VG can start to taste chemical depending on what the flavorings are like. I use PG based nic, and flavorings usually are PG based anyway so I tend to add pure VG instead of adding both VG and PG. Some say too much VG just sacrifices some of the flavor in exchange for bigger clouds, but I don't very much subscribe to that generalization. It varies from person to person a lot. Some actually even get sick if the VG/PG ratio isn't right for them. Some can't stand any PG at all, whereas others can't tolerate VG. People who can tolerate neither are rare. But they really do exist.

 

[AndriaD]

Sweetener is something I've seen mentioned but exactly what product is it? I'm assuming it's something you can buy that's similar to your flavorings?

I only vape at 3 nic for what it's worth. I tried vaping some juice a while ago that was 1.5 nic and it just didn't do it for me so I'll have to realize that as I'm trying these mixes that won't have nic.

Yes, most of the sweeteners used in vaping are sucralose, in PG. My personal favorite is TFA Sweetener -- it';s sucralose, but they apparently do something to it to make it not have that artificial "whang" that other brands of sucralose often do. I've also heard of people using Stevia, but I've heard that it has a weird taste of its own, and since I was happy with sucralose, I've never tried it. Any "real" sugar can't be used, or it makes a black stinking mess of the coils -- sugar burns VERY easily, and caramelizes even more easily.

Sweetener can make the difference between a mediocre juice, and something really yummy; most flavorings, particularly those by TFA, aren't particularly sweet on their own -- they may have lesser or greater amounts of natural sweetness, but not truly *sweet* -- which is a good thing, really, since everyone has wildly differing opinions of what constitutes sweet, too-sweet, or not sweet enough.

VG is naturally sweeter than PG, so you may not need any; a just-quit smoker will usually have impaired tastebuds, and may need a lot, which need will naturally lessen, the longer the quitter goes without smoking -- I used to need LOTS of sweetener, 2.5% or more, but it was the first "flavor" I was able to decrease; now, if I use any at all, it's never more than .5%, and usually more like .1%-.2%.

Andria

 

[John C]

I pre-mix a whole liter of just my VG/PG/nic base. That way you're just pouring your base in, then flavorings. But to each their own

 

[HeadInClouds]

1) doesn't matter at all
2) sure, you can do that. In fact, if you notice adding nic changes your flavors, it's a heads-up you need better nic
3) yes, that's a fine initial ratio, if you don't already know your preference

I'm often the odd-one-out on this, but I recommend always try anything you DIY right after you mix it. If you like it then, vape it then. If not, put it aside (maybe with a note about why you didn't like it right after mixing) and try after it's aged some. How else are you gonna learn how your flavors change as they age? By doing it this way myself, I learned which flavors I personally prefer after they've (aged, steeped, settled - whatever you'd like to call it) and can plan & mix accordingly to please myself.

 

[John C]

1)I'm often the odd-one-out on this, but I recommend always try anything you DIY right after you mix it. If you like it then, vape it then. If not, put it aside....

I am the same way -- i don't care if people say to let that recipe steep for a month or what. I vape it right then. I am eager to try it for one, and two, I like to at least get an idea of how much steeping will be needed. And sometimes -- it's great right off the bat anyway!

 

[AndriaD]

That's precisely why I started with the "high-flavor mixing", so I COULD taste the juice right after mixing... and with high volumes of flavoring, it either eliminates steeping or cuts down on it drastically -- my initial 31% flavoring strawberry & cream was best after a day or two; now it's down to a smidge under 25%, and although it's still vapable right away, it's better after about 5-7 days.

Andria

 

[pescadore]

I am just the opposite of Andria because I can't tolerate the PG. The PG in the flavors and Nic is all that I use and so I just add my flavorings, nicotine then fill the bottle with VG. Any more PG than that gives me a sore throat to the point of even losing my voice. Max VG juices do not bother me at all.

 

[wllmc]

I could use any last minute advice you folks could give me........

1) Judging by videos, it looks like most folks put the flavoring in the bottle first, then your VG and PG and then the Nic? Does it really matter what order you go in?

2) I would assume it's more than fine to throw nicotine in later on down the road (after it sits for a few a week or two)? I'd like my wife to perhaps be able to try some of this stuff and she doesn't use nic.

3) I seem to get/vape 80/20 VG/PG ratios and it suits me just fine. I would assume that would be a good starting point? I'm not sure how important it really is compared to the recipe given.

I'm going to start with a 2 flavor Cherry Coke and a 2 flavor "Muffin Man" clone. Since they don't have any cream or custard in the components do I need to worry about letting them sit for a week+ before trying? Or can I go ahead and shake and vape? If I do that, will I get a general idea if they are worth a darned and worth keeping around?

I do have a Mother's Milk recipe and I'll probably let that sit for a few days before I bother trying it. My game plan is to just make 15ml of each juice since this is my first venture. I'm really hoping I can get close to Muffin Man because I absolutely love that stuff and vape on it all the time.

Lastly, I'd like to give a nod to the Amazon shipper that apparently damaged the small funnels and pippettes in my shipment. Fortunately I did order a syringe kit and that should get me by tonight since I'm not mixing any large batches.

any juice yet?

 

[Badfrog]

any juice yet?

Well........ I forgot the flavor bottles came with drip tops so that made me feel a lot better. I was worried about dancing around with a bunch of syringes. I made 3 juices. The first two were without nic and the 3rd had 3 mg of nic. The 3rd bottle looks quite cloudy. Not sure if that's normal or what?

I nailed the weights pretty good and they seem to smell like they should. I might give one of them a try tomorrow morning. Thanks for all the help gang!

 

[wllmc]

Well........ I forgot the flavor bottles came with drip tops so that made me feel a lot better. I was worried about dancing around with a bunch of syringes. I made 3 juices. The first two were without nic and the 3rd had 3 mg of nic. The 3rd bottle looks quite cloudy. Not sure if that's normal or what?

I nailed the weights pretty good and they seem to smell like they should. I might give one of them a try tomorrow morning. Thanks for all the help gang!

some flavors get cloudy or swirly as you shake them but if you continue to shake it usually clears up, might be over miixed if you are using a mixer or something. cant say for sure without actually looking at it but Id assume it clears up over night

 

[Badfrog]

some flavors get cloudy or swirly as you shake them but if you continue to shake it usually clears up, might be over miixed if you are using a mixer or something. cant say for sure without actually looking at it but Id assume it clears up over night

I've shaken it quite a bit. After it sits for an hour and you turn the bottle, there is a white ring on the sides where the juice sat.

 

[Carambrda]

If you shake both vigorously enough and long enough, you get such an incredible amount of microscopic air bubbles it starts to look cloudy. The bubbles slowly rise up after you let it sit... hence the foamy ring where the bubbles have cleared out. Some flavorings also add to the cloudy look more than other flavorings do.

 

[Badfrog]

Good news is my cloudy juice cleared up a lot when I checked it this morning.

I tried my attempt at muffin man. It's got a nice apple taste but for the moment there is no muffin taste to it. We will see what happens to it in another 7 days. All in all it's pretty solid for my first ejuice mix.

 

[AndriaD]

If you shake both vigorously enough and long enough, you get such an incredible amount of microscopic air bubbles it starts to look cloudy. The bubbles slowly rise up after you let it sit... hence the foamy ring where the bubbles have cleared out. Some flavorings also add to the cloudy look more than other flavorings do.

Yep -- I rarely ever see anything like this with my high-PG ejuice, but when I mix up some 50/50 for my son, it's cloudy as hell after vigorous shaking. It settles down in about an hour...ish.

Also, some types of flavoring can give a cloudy appearance, when they're first mixed into anything containing VG... but that too settles down in a little while. When I could still tolerate cinnemaldehyde, I noticed this effect with red-hot flavors.

Andria

 

[UncleRJ]

Me, I make a large batch of my PG/VG/Nic and use that to make 15ml test batches of flavors.

When I am satisfied with the results, I will make up a 120 ml bottle for use.

While I am new to DIY myself (about 2 months) I can now pretty much mix up a batch in my sleep

 

[Heabob]

I tried my attempt at muffin man. It's got a nice apple taste but for the moment there is no muffin taste to it.

Muffins, Cakes, Cupcakes, etc. are a bit harder to detect, for me anyway.

 

[AndriaD]

Muffins, Cakes, Cupcakes, etc. are a bit harder to detect, for me anyway.

I think they tend to need steeping, for a flavor of that kind to emerge -- it seems to come from acetyl pyrazine, which smells like fritos, and tastes like sweat socks when first mixed.... after a week or two, it mellows out and you can actually taste the other flavors, in a nice blending.

I've heard that about custards and various creams too, but I've always used such a high level of flavoring, I don't really find a problem -- though it's true that my strawberry & cream, since I reduced the flavors to just below 25%, tastes better after about a week.

Andria

 

[Carambrda]

Muffins, Cakes, Cupcakes, etc. are a bit harder to detect, for me anyway.

Any recipe that's got bakery stuff or custard/chocolate/vanilla/cream in it takes more than two months of steeping before it starts to taste good I think. I have made only one juice so far... TFA Pralines and Cream. Almost three months of steeping finally brought it to life. When I see people mention only two or three weeks of steeping I can already taste chemicals just from the very thought of it. lol

 

[Heabob]

When I see people mention only two or three weeks of steeping I can already taste chemicals just from the very thought of it. lol

Luckily I don't have that kind of taste sensitivity with all but a very few flavors.
And those are more like perfume to me, rather than chemicals.
No amount of steeping helps...

 

[jambi]

I pre-mix a whole liter of just my VG/PG/nic base. That way you're just pouring your base in, then flavorings. But to each their own

Sounds extremely convenient, but how do you keep your ratios correct with a pre-mixed base? I tried this and couldn't figure out a way that would be close to correct with higher flavor percentages. If your final target is 70VG/30PG 3 mg nic, and you're using your base for a variety of recipes with differing flavor percentages, how do you account for the discrepancies? For example, if you add 10% PG based flavoring to a 70/30 3mg base, you'll end up with something like 63/37 2.70 mg. If you go 20% flavoring, you're around 56/44 2.40 mg. I probably wouldn't notice the nic, but I'd definitely notice a 56/44 ratio.

Maybe the difference is worth the time savings of two fewer steps? If you're only mixing one recipe, you could custom tailor a base to that recipe's ratio and end up hitting the target, but then probably faster to just mix large quantities at a time and eliminate the pre-mix step.

My mixing order is flavors/PG[shake], nic/VG. Why? No particular reason, other than it feels like combining flavors and PG first gets them blended faster.

One thing I've learned re steeping is that for certain mixes, adding fade-prone flavors after steeping is better. For example something like a lemon cake. Mix it all together, age it a month, and where did the lemon go? You can withhold the lemon, mix the cake components first and steep, then add the lemon when ready to vape and actually taste it.

 

[AndriaD]

Sounds extremely convenient, but how do you keep your ratios correct with a pre-mixed base? I tried this and couldn't figure out a way that would be close to correct with higher flavor percentages. If your final target is 70VG/30PG 3 mg nic, and you're using your base for a variety of recipes with differing flavor percentages, how do you account for the discrepancies? For example, if you add 10% PG based flavoring to a 70/30 3mg base, you'll end up with something like 63/37 2.70 mg. If you go 20% flavoring, you're around 56/44 2.40 mg. I probably wouldn't notice the nic, but I'd definitely notice a 56/44 ratio.

Maybe the difference is worth the time savings of two fewer steps? If you're only mixing one recipe, you could custom tailor a base to that recipe's ratio and end up hitting the target, but then probably faster to just mix large quantities at a time and eliminate the pre-mix step.

My mixing order is flavors/PG[shake], nic/VG. Why? No particular reason, other than it feels like combining flavors and PG first gets them blended faster.

One thing I've learned re steeping is that for certain mixes, adding fade-prone flavors after steeping is better. For example something like a lemon cake. Mix it all together, age it a month, and where did the lemon go? You can withhold the lemon, mix the cake components first and steep, then add the lemon when ready to vape and actually taste it.

I have the same problems with using a pre-made base -- I absolutely HAVE TO have 86% or even 86.5% PG; any more and it burns my throat, any less and it feels like a hairball in my chest. So I have no option but to mix fresh for every single thing I ever vape. I also use very high percentages of flavor for most stuff, and especially my ADV strawberry & cream -- it's come down a lot, but still 25% flavoring.

I like your idea RE: fade-prone flavors; might try that!

Andria

 

[wllmc]

My mixing order is flavors/PG[shake], nic/VG. Why? No particular reason, other than it feels like combining flavors and PG first gets them blended faster.

when I used PG this was my routine but I always put nic last. it obviously mixes flavors better if you do flavor and PG first. now I do Max VG so its flavors, VG then nic. unless you have a VG intolerance or using old school ego cleromizers I don't really see the need for PG anymore. Ive always wondered why people think PG makes flavors taste better, if you stick your finger in PG and taste it and then in VG it very clear that PG taste like crap lol.

 

[wllmc]

a lot of people use premixed bases which is fine if you are not dead set on a specific ratio and a generally close enough is ok with you , or you have already done all the math on them all, pre mixed flavors are much more convenient and time saving then pre mixed bases. in my opinion anyways

 

[Carambrda]

when I used PG this was my routine but I always put nic last. it obviously mixes flavors better if you do flavor and PG first. now I do Max VG so its flavors, VG then nic. unless you have a VG intolerance or using old school ego cleromizers I don't really see the need for PG anymore. Ive always wondered why people think PG makes flavors taste better, if you stick your finger in PG and taste it and then in VG it very clear that PG taste like crap lol.

I don't add any PG either. My flavorings and my nic already are PG based so I just add pure VG ending up around 80 percent VG.

 

[RonJS]

Sounds extremely convenient, but how do you keep your ratios correct with a pre-mixed base? I tried this and couldn't figure out a way that would be close to correct with higher flavor percentages.

I'm not all that fussy having exact PG/VG ratios or nic. amounts. Around 50/50 is fine with me and I can always adjust nic. intake with a couple of extra (or less) vape hits.
I seldom mix with over 10% flavorings.
I use pre mixed bases...3 of them.
One each for flavoring additions of...
.5-3%
3-6%
6-!0%
Volume of each base is determined by my anticipated upcoming mixing schedule.

I do measure my nic. (and don't use bases) for individual mixes when high %'s of my homemade NET's are in play.

Ron
---
"The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest."- Kurt Vonnegut

 

[AndriaD]

I'm not all that fussy having exact PG/VG ratios or nic. amounts. Around 50/50 is fine with me and I can always adjust nic. intake with a couple of extra (or less) vape hits.
I seldom mix with over 10% flavorings.
I use pre mixed bases...3 of them.
One each for flavoring additions of...
.5-3%
3-6%
6-!0%
Volume of each base is determined by my anticipated upcoming mixing schedule.

I do measure my nic. (and don't use bases) for individual mixes when high %'s of my homemade NET's are in play.

Ron
---
"The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest."- Kurt Vonnegut

My son seems to be a very adaptable vaper like you; pretty much any PG/VG from 30/70 to 70/30 suits him just fine.

Andria