And tombaker, im just curious, as you disect, and incriminate on your assumptions. Have you seen the work that the VM has done for the PV industry? And what all if anything have you done in order to advocate for our industry?
For the simple reason that I think the Militia moniker is more of a liability to the effort of swinging government officals to the correct side, I responded to this thread, with my rationale. Its not any different that a whole bunch of people. Its been said to Joe Barnett when he has been interviewed, and the interviewer said they disagreed with the jargon of the name, and it was not going away.
From there I get Nacht Noir saying:
As for you TomBaker, I am smiling now, because in a way you legitimize our work by trolling us. You have attacked Greg Conley, CASAA and almost every leader in advocacy so we become more relevant when you troll us. I would also like to thank you because we have added about 15 new members today. Thank you for the publicity. I would like to point out that in almost every case of your trolling you have fabricated information or misquoted people, or all out made up information in every possible way.
Now, I am not a liar, nor troll, (unless you consider
disagreement to questionable authority) and after being banned, and thread locked, I won't sit quietly, to something like the above.
I responded back to Nacht Nor, and Truckcenteral, who caved quickly, and would not reply.
As far as advocay, back in 2013, after reading all the "Bill Godshall says" stickies on ECF, I posted a thread called, along the lines of the FDA is not the issue, local and State bans are the big problem. Went into detail, thread had like 13,000 views. As I recall the 4th poster was Greg Conoly, asking to have the thread shut down. It was shut down, but not until there were like 800 replies. I am going off memory right now.
This is where I am happy to see, the formation of Vaping Militia, after that. I don't think that CASAA is going to have a huge impact on the Federal side. And its clear on how they dropped the ball on the commenting to the FDA. As I have said on Click Bang, if I were to have one clear message, its the local bans and State bans that are the biggest thread in the near term. Near term, is like the next 4 years. So how am I so fucked up then? I don't like the name, I voted on this thread, I got pushed back by the management of Vaping Militia. Well I do my own work, I read the documents myself, I don't just listen. I had seen that Eagle in my time, and I knew it was historical. After the attacks, I went and looked, and sure enough, its the insignia of the Third Riech. So yah, I think Barnett is a off-base on knowing history, which is what he said was the explanation of the Militia name during his interviews.on history. Maybe Barnett great on the Colonial stuff, but that is over 200 years old. WWII vets are alive today, dying off at about 600 a day. So when I get the crazy story the Coat of Arms, is now a Phoneix, Rising again, I know its junk.
I posted another thread, that proves beyond a doubt, its the wrong symbol to use, and especially in conjunction with a Militia. Then today to find out the original "retro" banners for VM feature a totenkopf, instead of that Eagle. I really don't want to post the officer hats that feature both symbols together, and the lapels. The graphics and the name, is damaging to crediblilty. Well on this thread NachtNoir says the VM folks will never self identify, so its really a WTF. He won't answer the questions about that mode of advocay, which I don't understand. So that is about this thread.
So Nacthnoir, who does not know anything about what I have done whenever, gets spoon fed some information from one of guys who Hacked the
www.FreetoVape.org website. Give him an earful. So he says I attacked Carl Phillips on CASAA's Facebook with this:
I am telling you that you have bad data, bad conclusions, and knowingly presenting a false narrative. I am informing you that you are wrong, and doing it specifically to which items. Whoop, insult, and holler, but you ignoring responding each time. I have put out clearly where you are wrong, your work, wrong. I laid out the points. Why crumble when your work is reviewed? Your math is wrong, and the FDA found that, you have completely missed see the criteria for public health benefit inside the deeming. Unlike Glantz's theory dual usage is a net positive. You know or should know that getting approval is not going to be 10 Million dollars for each item, will you acknowledge you know better? You know your claims that only Cartomizers (ie Cigalikes) will exist after the Deeming, is wrong, and that E-Liquids will be approved just like any product.
I said all that, and if you read it, I am saying Phillips is wrong on very specific things. Such an attack, gosh. Now look how long this stinking reply is, you know I am going to back up what I said. Notice what I said "Whoop, insult, and holler, but you ignoring responding each time." Yes I did say that for cause.
Here is the message than spawned my reply you see above.
Wow. It is clear that Michael started this thread for a clear focused purpose, and it was well said. He did not set out to generally argue how clueless and egocentric (a defined technical term, btw, like astroturf) Baker is. But Baker decided to jump in and make that point too. If he were a somewhat more disciplined troll, he would have stayed far away from this one. But since he did not, it makes a pretty good thread to bookmark and point to any time someone wants to point out the utter non-productiveness of his role in our world.
So I replied on the facts. Myk on this thread, is the Michael who started a thread about me on CASAA, which I had replied to, Philips like to do stuff like that, real Ivory Tower type of insulter. Today he is attacking Dr. Michael Siegel, because the Chewing Tobacco corporations that have been paying Phillips are not pleased with Dr. Siegel on Chew. CASAA is multiple focuses, they don't like the fact I think because CASAA is nearly entirely supported by Vapers, that they should only work on Vaper Issue, Carl is not a vaper, you can watch him in a video holding an EGO, like a prop, not dragging on it, drops in down the recliner, and does not bother to fetch it....a Vaper does not do that.
So NachtNoir did exactly what Phillips asked, but he took my reply after what he said, I think the thread is gone now.
So yes I can show on the advocacy side that the FDA has defined a critera of public health Benefit, which has dual usage as a net positive....so the people jumping up that hill, could be on a better fight.
Its looking like Vaping Militia is going to be a simple appendage to CASAA. Their grunts. Which I have concern on, because I already know folks are spinning wheel to take hills, that are purposeless.
Nachtnoir, Truckcentral, and the rest of the crew, taunted me, called me a liar, I back it up. I was forced to research more.
Explain this:
http://vapingunderground.com/thread...earn-history-realize-others-wont-forget.6956/ If Barnett is going to not understand history, justify thing based history, and then turn tail, and not explain what is obvious. I won't follow TruckCentral by stepping aside.
You explain the graphics if Barnett can not muster up any response, beyond don't debate.
On M*A*S*H, I guess you can insult Radar, why though?
