i dont think so as it always sags that much and i have like 10 different batteries all bought at different timesmaybe a bad batch of batteries?
i dont think so as it always sags that much and i have like 10 different batteries all bought at different timesmaybe a bad batch of batteries?
they shouldn't be dropping. Even at 60 amps they don't sag. not until 70 amps do they sag that much
thats about what i get .95-1 volt and i really dont think my batteries are fakes they were all bought from reputable dealersThat graph shows a sag from just about 4.2v down to about 3.3v at a 40a load. And that's a battery testing setup with just about zero voltage drop. 1v to maybe 1.3v should be expected from a mod if you are going by that test.
70a test dropped below the testing range, totally unsafe. Doesn't look like he even did the 70a test for more than one pulse and called it quits before he set his garage on fire lol.
u know what I was reading the chart wrong, i was looking at it backwards lolThat graph shows a sag from just about 4.2v down to about 3.3v at a 40a load. And that's a battery testing setup with just about zero voltage drop. 1v to maybe 1.3v should be expected from a mod if you are going by that test.
70a test dropped below the testing range, totally unsafe. Doesn't look like he even did the 70a test for more than one pulse and called it quits before he set his garage on fire lol.
u know what I was reading the chart wrong, i was looking at it backwards lol
anyway he is pushing 22 amps so the lowest measured on the chart is 30 amps. and even at that it sags down to about 3.45 form 4.1 so a .65 Sag
you scared me lolu know what I was reading the chart wrong, i was looking at it backwards lol
anyway he is pushing 22 amps so the lowest measured on the chart is 30 amps. and even at that it sags down to about 3.45 form 4.1 so a .65 Sag
Ohms law is ohms law. it's 22 amps regardless of what kind of coils are used. The difference is claptons will need more amps to ramp up then less wires. but that doesn't change ohms lawHard to say what he is pushing, a big fat fused clapton or dragon coil or whatever shit people are running draws a lot of power.
So a basic round wire build @ 0.3 is different from an alien 0.3 build.
That is also a testing setup so it is about as efficient as it gets. That does not relate 1:1 to what you actually see from a mod.
to test this, using my G2 my weak batteries (27% left) dropped from my setting of 4.5v to 3.6 but putting in a fresh set of fully charged batteries, my voltage didn't drop at allThat is normal, most people don't pay attention to the live voltage bar on their regulated mods because it's on the side and you cant see it when you take a pull. If you were to look at it the bar will usually drop 30% to 50% depending on the build and wattage it's set at.
Yours is just whatever the build is but in a mod you can change wattage there is a big difference in bar change from 10w to 100w. 10w barely moves the bar.
Ohms law is ohms law. it's 22 amps regardless of what kind of coils are used. The difference is claptons will need more amps to ramp up then less wires. but that doesn't change ohms law
to test this, using my G2 my weak batteries (27% left) dropped from my setting of 4.5v to 3.6 but putting in a fresh set of fully charged batteries, my voltage didn't drop at all
Yeah good point on that since the g2 is a series mod. Plus regulated mods can have other stuff to stop sag. They don't need to draw directly from the batteries I'm not sure if the G2 does or notYour right, I'm so used to a regulated mod and adjusting watts higher than normal when running a gucci coil instead of a regular round wire coil.
Something went wrong with your test or what the mod was telling you because there is no such thing as a batteries voltage not sagging under a load. To what degree it sags of course depends on the load and the starting voltage but there will always be a decent amount of sag with the load we put on batteries.
Mooch's test that you posted illustrates that.
Edit:
Your fresh batteries started at 8.4v so setting the mod to 4.5v... no, you didn't see any sag because the sag was not lower than your setting.
If not drawing from the batteries, then where from? o_0...Plus regulated mods can have other stuff to stop sag. They don't need to draw directly from the batteries...
Because of PWM, I'm guessing?...4.5v from a boosted single cell does not vape the same as 4.5v from a multi cell mod.
every board is different and we don't really get specs on any of them so it's all just speculation. But I've seen quite a few mods that have a 50 amp limit on 2 20 amp batteries which leads me to believe there is something else sharing the amp loadIf not drawing from the batteries, then where from? o_0
(I've not yet heard of any mods that use supercaps, for example, in between the cells and the coils - although that might be an interesting idea.)
The amp limit of a chip and amp limit of a battery are two separate things.every board is different and we don't really get specs on any of them so it's all just speculation. But I've seen quite a few mods that have a 50 amp limit on 2 20 amp batteries which leads me to believe there is something else sharing the amp load
Because of PWM, I'm guessing?
I get that - I just don't understand how it would lead to:Here's a good explanation of boost...
In what way does it 'not vape the same' and by what mechanism?...4.5v from a boosted single cell does not vape the same as 4.5v from a multi cell mod.
It's not really 'all just speculation' - even if we don't have the official specs on a lot of the boards that are in use out there, we can easily deduce by seeing what components are used on them the mechanism of their operation.every board is different and we don't really get specs on any of them so it's all just speculation. But I've seen quite a few mods that have a 50 amp limit on 2 20 amp batteries which leads me to believe there is something else sharing the amp load
true but again we won't know what the components are. the only company that puts out info on it's board is evolvIt's not really 'all just speculation' - even if we don't have the official specs on a lot of the boards that are in use out there, we can easily deduce by seeing what components are used on them the mechanism of their operation.
That a mod that can use 2x20A cells has been limited to 50A doesn't mean anything really, as fq06 already mentioned - a manufacturer might decide to limit the maximum Amp draw of a device to ensure that the components used to build it are kept within safe limits and/or to ensure that the most commonly used cells aren't used beyond their capabilities and also to give them a decent amount of headroom.
In what way does it 'not vape the same' and by what mechanism?
We can tell exactly what the components are, and their exact values and model numbers (or equivalents) in nearly all cases - the only thing that's a bit mysterious sometimes is exactly what certain chips have been programmed to do - the components that actually do all the heavy lifting and real work are easily recognised and categorised by anyone who has some experience of examining electronics.true but again we won't know what the components are. the only company that puts out info on it's board is evolv
Why would that affect the quality of the vape, or affect what is seen at the coil terminals using instruments, though?Because you are artificially boosting a max 4.2v cell up to... say 4.5v.
With a series mod you are taking a max 8.4v setup down to 4.5
OK then show me a schematic on the smok alien with every component or list them.... i'm waitingWe can tell exactly what the components are, and their exact values and model numbers (or equivalents) in nearly all cases - the only thing that's a bit mysterious sometimes is exactly what certain chips have been programmed to do - the components that actually do all the heavy lifting and real work are easily recognised and categorised by anyone who has some experience of examining electronics.
Why would that affect the quality of the vape, or affect what is seen at the coil terminals using instruments, though?
Surely 4.5V looks (and vapes) exactly the same regardless of whether it has been produced by bucking or boosting a power source?
EDIT: Or, by 'vape the same' were you referring to battery life due to efficiency losses etc?
depends on the amps in the battery, the single battery won't likely put out 75 watts under most loads. maybe if you built a 1 ohm coil it can, but building a .2ohm coil, your battery won't hold 75 watts. Thats why it feels week.No, I added to that post.
Don't know if you've vaped on a 75w single cell mod with a build that needs more than about 40w but after 40w the vape output just isn't the same.
I don't know the technical reason but a single cell just does not put out 75w or even close to it very well.
Like a 0.2 crown coil at 60w on single cell is weak as hell compared to 60w on a dual cell. Even with the same 350j chip in both mods.
Sure - if you find a YouTube video, or a blog/forum post where someone has done a teardown of a mod like the SMOK and kindly posted it online, you can easily see what components have been used in it's construction. The important ones, like the capacitors and inductors are quite easy to tell the (even approx) specifications of, and this can be used to tell the useful (or at least *safe*) limits of the design. Like I mentioned earlier, it's often the programmable chips (or sometimes custom ones) that it's hard to tell what they're quite up to exactly, but they aren't the components that do the 'heavy lifting'.OK then show me a schematic on the smok alien with every component or list them.... i'm waiting
Not trying to be a jerk by any means, but the info is rarely out there for 99% of devices. Even if you identify components doesn't mean they will be labeled with model numbers to let you know their specs. Sure you can look at a board if you disassemble it and see a capacitor , resistors, fuses, etc, but you still don't get them complete information from it
SirRichardRear is correct (although I think he got his coil resistances the wrong way around) - that is simply because the battery sag when a single cell is taxed at such high loads is too much, and you're not *really* getting that much power using it at those levels.I added to that post.
Don't know if you've vaped on a 75w single cell mod with a build that needs more than about 40w but after 40w the vape output just isn't the same.
I don't know the technical reason but a single cell just does not put out 75w or even close to it very well.
Like a 0.25 crown coil at 60w on single cell is weak as hell compared to 60w on a dual cell. Even with the same 350j chip in both mods.
depends on the amps in the battery, the single battery won't likely put out 75 watts under most loads. maybe if you built a 1 ohm coil it can, but building a .2ohm coil, your battery won't hold 75 watts. Thats why it feels week.
75 watts is 75 watts, the single battery won't put 75 watts even if you set it to that under heavy load.
SirRichardRear is correct (although I think he got his coil resistances the wrong way around) - that is simply because the battery sag when a single cell is taxed at such high loads is too much, and you're not *really* getting that much power using it at those levels.
It's not backwards. It's not really voltage that makes the batteries sag, it's the amperage. but it's all related. a single battery won't put out 7 volts unless the board has a boost. But at 1 ohm and 75 watts it's 8 amps which any battery can handle, at .25 ohms it over 17 amps so if you had a battery less then 20 amps it'll probably sag hard75w with a 1ohm coil is 8.66v.
75w with a 0.25ohm coil is 4.33v but doesn't matter what cell I've tried a single cell mod does not deliver the goods like a dual cell when running a low coil.
They may say it's a 75w device but in real life use it falls on it's face.
Nothing I want to know personally. As i said you can make an educated guess but without specs and diagrams you won't be exact. I've worked on plenty of boards in computers, generators and UPS's so close enough doesn't personally cut it for me. Sometimes being off my 1 milliamp is the difference between working and not working.Sure - if you find a YouTube video, or a blog/forum post where someone has done a teardown of a mod like the SMOK and kindly posted it online, you can easily see what components have been used in it's construction. The important ones, like the capacitors and inductors are quite easy to tell the (even approx) specifications of, and this can be used to tell the useful (or at least *safe*) limits of the design. Like I mentioned earlier, it's often the programmable chips (or sometimes custom ones) that it's hard to tell what they're quite up to exactly, but they aren't the components that do the 'heavy lifting'.
A lot of the components used in mods are SMD (surface mount), which are marked (if you know how to read and identify them) with their specifications.
Or you can do a teardown yourself, if you have the device in your hands.
What is it about the Alien that you want to know that SMOK haven't released the information about?
Oh I see - yes, of course, you're absolutely right. I was thinking more about the case where a '200W' mod will *just about* put out that Wattage, but only into a coil of a certain resistance (always low and in a *very* narrow range) .but this is more due to the max Voltage limits of the device.It's not backwards...at 1 ohm and 75 watts it's 8 amps which any battery can handle, at .25 ohms it over 17 amps so if you had a battery less then 20 amps it'll probably sag hard...
unless the board has a boost feature and capacitors because many will argue a dual battery mod can't put out 200 watts. yet here we are with smok having a 220 watt dual battery mod. So it's either not really 220 watts or the board has a boost featureYes - there's no way that you can get a realistic 75W from a single-cell mod due to the limitations of the cells - you're attempting to draw just too many Amps from that one cell for it to work properly, regardless of it being a decent YiHi chip or whatever. You're just running into the limitations of basic physics in that case.
Well, a dual-cell mod *can* do 220W, but the question really is - can it realistically do so in a useable manner?unless the board has a boost feature and capacitors because many will argue a dual battery mod can't put out 200 watts. yet here we are with smok having a 220 watt dual battery mod. So it's either not really 220 watts or the board has a boost feature
Well, a dual-cell mod *can* do 220W, but the question really is - can it realistically do so in a useable manner?
Well, a dual-cell mod *can* do 220W, but the question really is - can it realistically do so in a useable manner?
According to my calculations, if your 18650s are good for up to 30A - the SMOK Alien, with it's 8V maximum Voltage, could realistically put out 220W into a 0.29 Ohm coil - but the question is - for how long? If it's like all the other 'super powered' mods that have come out so far, it might fire that Wattage into that very specific resistance coil *once*, but that would start to drop off very quickly with all subsequent firings.
According to my calculations at 220W with 2 batteries you are pushing more then 38A so can you do it? yes, should you do it even with 30A batteries? no and not 200W either.
It doesn't appear that this question was ever really answered directly. In case anyone is interested, following is some info on what "voltage sag" really is.what determines voltage? or voltage drop i should say. i was under the impression that the lower the resistance the less the voltage drop.. and why does it change when i change the build?
FYI got the alien. Fired 220 watts on a .176 build it read out at 33 amps and fired like a champ. Very impressed with jtThat was on the first page, conversion moved past it but more info the better.
How many Volts did that fire at, do you remember? I'd guess at around 6.2V. I hope you've got some good batteries in your Alien!FYI got the alien. Fired 220 watts on a .176 build it read out at 33 amps and fired like a champ. Very impressed with jt
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I think it read 5.6 iirc. Using hb6 batteries. Highest amp limit of any battery, I'll probably test with the HE4 tomorrowHow many Volts did that fire at, do you remember? I'd guess at around 6.2V. I hope you've got some good batteries in your Alien!
Hmm - 5.6V would represent 31.82A, 178.18 W at the coil (with 10% inefficiency).I think it read 5.6 iirc. Using hb6 batteries. Highest amp limit of any battery, I'll probably test with the HE4 tomorrow
I don't remember the voltage for sure. Just remember the amps were around 33 and change and the watts at 220.Hmm - 5.6V would represent 31.82A, 178.18 W at the coil (with 10% inefficiency).