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What's the hardest you have ran a Samsung 25r? Less than 0.15 ohms?

McAnythingReally

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Personal Experience: You can run .08 and above builds on a 25R. Is it inherently safe? Not really no. Did I die running my batteries that hard all day every day? Nope. Did it for the first roughly 5 months I was vaping running that low, before I learned how to really build efficient coils, and different wire materials to use to achieve the faster ramp up, and harder hit, at a higher resistance.

What I can say though is that I do not reccommend it. Taking the CDR and all safety aspects of this out of the equation for this point as well. I loved running that low, the huge clouds were my thing, and from time to time still are. What I did not love was burning batteries out in 2 months, and having to constantly replace the batteries I had because they did not hold a decent charge anymore. The batteries were always cool, not ever warm enough to cause any concern for myself. I was paranoid and constantly was checking my battery temps to see if it was getting hot. I have to say the 25rs kept up very well, and stayed surprisingly cool for how hard they were being pushed. But the cost of having to replace all of my batteries every 2 months became less than advantageous. Running this low taxes those batteries beyond beleif, and will absolutely ruin the capacity they have in no time at all. I would have a fresh set of batteries go weak in just a few weeks, and then be useless after a month or so. Add in the extra juice cost(Buying premium at the time) of 30ML every 36 hours, and it got expensive to super sub ohm very quickly.
 

martnargh

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i run .08-.1 on tubes and .3-.5 in series all day everyday.

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gbalkam

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Personal Experience: You can run .08 and above builds on a 25R. Is it inherently safe? Not really no. Did I die running my batteries that hard all day every day? Nope. Did it for the first roughly 5 months I was vaping running that low, before I learned how to really build efficient coils, and different wire materials to use to achieve the faster ramp up, and harder hit, at a higher resistance.

What I can say though is that I do not reccommend it. Taking the CDR and all safety aspects of this out of the equation for this point as well. I loved running that low, the huge clouds were my thing, and from time to time still are. What I did not love was burning batteries out in 2 months, and having to constantly replace the batteries I had because they did not hold a decent charge anymore. The batteries were always cool, not ever warm enough to cause any concern for myself. I was paranoid and constantly was checking my battery temps to see if it was getting hot. I have to say the 25rs kept up very well, and stayed surprisingly cool for how hard they were being pushed. But the cost of having to replace all of my batteries every 2 months became less than advantageous. Running this low taxes those batteries beyond beleif, and will absolutely ruin the capacity they have in no time at all. I would have a fresh set of batteries go weak in just a few weeks, and then be useless after a month or so. Add in the extra juice cost(Buying premium at the time) of 30ML every 36 hours, and it got expensive to super sub ohm very quickly.
Proper way to do it too. When I do new builds below 0.15 I tend to check the battery temp after 2 pulls by taking the battery out and feeling it with my hand. If it isnt heating, Ill try 3 pulls. If it still isn't heating, I know i can do 4 pulls. Usually 3 is my max, lol that's a lot of nicotine. Of course, with 0 mg juice, I can do 4 pulls, but then I let the mod rest a few minutes, just in case... better safe than sorry, right? ALWAYS err on the side of caution!
 

gbalkam

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Something I am finding rather cool, is I just did a 20ga stainless steel dual coil build, 8 wraps per coil, which comes out at 0.1 ohm. (I was actually trying for 0.9, but oh well) Now the 0.1 ohm coil in theory, will give a huge hit at the start, with the lower resistance. However as the stainless steel heats, the resistance goes up. Bringing me closer to my comfy 0.15 level. :eek:)

In other words.. it seems like i am going to get a fast ramp up with a lower drain than I would with Kanthal (for example) I haven't tried it yet, but I built the coil on a regulated mod and noticed the change in ohms as the coil cooled. It's also nice bc i can use TC mode on the regulated mod, and the stainless steel does give a better array of flavors than straight kanthal.
 

martnargh

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for me a heavy vape session is 2-4 pulls... thats if i havent vaped in a while.
dont really want the resistance nazis coming after me but i vape low as shit with no problems.

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gbalkam

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for me a heavy vape session is 2-4 pulls... thats if i havent vaped in a while.
dont really want the resistance nazis coming after me but i vape low as shit with no problems.

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An important note to anyone new to mech mods, what is comfortable to build at for one person may not be for another. I suggest 0.3 to 0.15 until you are very used to building coils, know how the wire will react, such as when heated / cooled, how your mod and battery will handle your build. Building below 0.10 ohm is for advanced users, mostly for competitive cloud chasing, and is a lot harder on batteries. Vaping is not about how low you can build a coil, but rather about how happy you are with the vape. Remember, there is no rush, you aren't in competition to "catch up" to anyone that has been vaping and building longer. Slow and steady for the win. I am still learning as well, and have a lot to learn yet. My comfort level is 1.0 ohm to 0.15. And I feel no pressing need to go below that. lol
 

HondaDavidson

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.2ohms. On my mechanical and regulated mods. Didn't like it so went back to my .3-.4 at 15-20watts regulated and .8-1.2 mechanical.
 

MannyScoot

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Build from .15 to .20 and use 15 amp cells..... And you'll live.....

Most parallel mods work fine around .15 but parrallels with mosfets usually blow the mosfets below .10 ohms......

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robot zombie

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I'm sure the Samsung 25r's can take quite a lot of abuse. Check out what happens when you short one...

Not saying, "Hey, rip 50A from one! It's all good!" Worst-case, it still vents and you still get seriously hurt. It's the avalanche fallacy. Basically, you ski an unstable slope and maybe nothing happens, but that doesn't mean the next person to take on that slope can't be crushed just as easily as you got through it. Just because other people have done it and not had any catastrophes doesn't mean they can't happen. It's a gamble wherein the chances of having something terrible happen are very slim, but when you lose, the losses are very substantial. Small chance, monumental risk.

Human risk-assessment behavior is funny like that. We'll take better odds of not losing BIG over worse odds of losing something much smaller. If I ask you to bet 20$ on a coin toss with double payoff, you won't do it. But if I ask you to bet $1000 with the odds 20x in your favor, you'll do it, even if you can't afford to pay the $1000 in the event that you should lose. Or at least, most people predictably will. Point is, it's not about what you stand to lose, but the probability of losing. If you think you probably won't lose, you'll take bigger chances. We are wired to avoid all failure, big or small.

Personally, the furthest I'll take my 25r's is .16 on a tube mod. Even there, the performance dropoff is very real and noticeable. I'm measuring a net drop of .7v! Sometimes more! So realistically, we're looking at just a few amps over 20 being pulled. I can do a .2 that will outperform that .16 in every single area. But then, the net drop is ~.4v. This is why I'll never understand super-subbing on tubes. You are losing so much power to the battery sag that it's almost not worth the gains in current, which also take a hit from the voltage drop! A battery will perform better and better the further away from its IR you get.

And the reason for this performance difference is simple... ...the .2 is getting more optimal power. It's pulling more current at a higher voltage, relative to its mass. The sag from the stronger pull makes those deep sub-ohm builds power-aneimic. Of course, I know it still works, but there are better ways to maximize the ratio of power to mass/surface-area - ways that don't involve nearly the degree of risk that deep-subbing comes with.
 
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martnargh

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ive never seen anyone at a comp with anything over .1...
that being said, ive never seen anyone at a comp vent a cell, either. and they dont reserve those builds for just comping, .06-.08 on a tube is an everyday affair for a lot of people...

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robot zombie

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ive never seen anyone at a comp with anything over .1...
that being said, ive never seen anyone at a comp vent a cell, either. and they dont reserve those builds for just comping, .06-.08 on a tube is an everyday affair for a lot of people...
Well yeah, it does work. There's really no arguing that you can get insane clouds by building that low.

It's a culture I'll never understand though. Of all the ways to get clouds, why tard-ohm? Maybe there was a time when that was the way to go. Not so anymore.
 

martnargh

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Well yeah, it does work. There's really no arguing that you can get insane clouds by building that low.

It's a culture I'll never understand though. Of all the ways to get clouds, why tard-ohm? Maybe there was a time when that was the way to go. Not so anymore.
on a tube it is.

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martnargh

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But why does it have to be tubes? I feel like it could be any other type of device, so long as everyone is using the same devices.
thats the nature of the beast.
comprehension not required.

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robot zombie

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thats the nature of the beast.
comprehension not required.
Fair enough. But sometimes a man's gotta try. Realms untouched by science can't always be left alone.

It occurred to me that if it were any other class of mod, the end result would be the same. Everyone would just find a way to push it to the max, just like they now do with tubes. Hmm...
 

martnargh

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the tube game has always been there and there has always been that crowd pushing it to the max.
myself personally i went years vaping .1-.15 on a tube casually and just maybe a little under a year ago ventured into the <.1 regions.
difference between before and now is a lot of new mechs now are designed with comp vapers in mind.
im not a comp vaper, but i do enjoy the idea of blowing a big ass cloud.
before youd have to drill the rda because the igow couldnt handle subohm and the 22mm mechs could be hot as shit after just a couple pulls.
now i can chain vape a .08 for 5 or 6 or even 7 pulls one after another if i need to and the mod is barely warm, no hot button and the wick keeps up without a hitch. few years ago something like that was almost unheard of.

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Diescum88

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the tube game has always been there and there has always been that crowd pushing it to the max.
myself personally i went years vaping .1-.15 on a tube casually and just maybe a little under a year ago ventured into the <.1 regions.
difference between before and now is a lot of new mechs now are designed with comp vapers in mind.
im not a comp vaper, but i do enjoy the idea of blowing a big ass cloud.
before youd have to drill the rda because the igow couldnt handle subohm and the 22mm mechs could be hot as shit after just a couple pulls.
now i can chain vape a .08 for 5 or 6 or even 7 pulls one after another if i need to and the mod is barely warm, no hot button and the wick keeps up without a hitch. few years ago something like that was almost unheard of.

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I used to go around .2 ohms with my igo w still got Ithink around somewhere

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gbalkam

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Latest build.. 0.14ohm.. but...
0.14ohmquad.jpg

Quad coil....
Runs like a beast on a single cell mech too. I just finished rewicking, and re-tune the coils on my ijoy.
 

gbalkam

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I was at a B+M today and both guys were running RDA/mech setups on 25r's at 0.09 ohms... They do it all the time. Then they started reciting pulse specs. 100A for 1 second, 80A for 2 seconds etc. One dude competes with 0.09 coils and pulses for 8 seconds. I have known these guys for awhile and they aren't bullshitting, they really do it. I've seen the builds. Whether their pulse specs are true, I have not checked yet. I don't normally use pulse specs.

I just want to run at 0.125 for a few drags every now and then. That was my first RDA build (24ga parallel duals) and even after 100 builds I still miss it. I've just been too much of a pussy to go that low since learning that 35A efests are 20A efests. In my defense, I ran that setup for a couple weeks (on an efest) with no issues.

I would feel more comfortable running lower than 0.18 on one of my 25r's than I would on a purple efest. That's all of the batteries I have aside from an old Panny NCR that powers my Atlantis.

Anyone else out there running your 25r's at 32A or more? :zips up flame retardant jump suit:

NOT A BEGINNER BUILD!!!!
Not easy to build and mount the coils, not easy to wick
and run about 0.95-0.1 ohm. Pulls 42 amps and 176 watts.
Anyone that looks at the "pulse rate" on a battery should not be doing advanced builds. Pulse rate is meaningless. Obviously, since a battery with a 30amp pulse rate will still fire off 42 amps. The thing is, use high quality batteries, not rebranded "2nds" that failed quality control of the manufacturer. And check battery specs for stress tests and pulse times at over 30A.
 

brandon555

Member For 3 Years
"At your own risk" really applies here, lol.. but I still say if you want to venture into stupidly low ohm territory for more than just a couple quick pulls just build lipo powered box mod. Even a modest 2500mah 7.4 lipo will put out 40-50 amps without breaking a sweat.
 

gbalkam

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.046 on a single tube mech. Just a couple of pulls though. Didn't want to blow my face up. Lol!
Not here.. 0.07 and lower I rebuild the coil. 0.1-0.09 is my comfy zone. I can manipulate the wire and coil configuration quite a bit, so i don't feel the urge to get close to battery run off level.
 

martnargh

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On a tube .08 is my comfort zone.
.35 for series.
I don't use parallel mods, maybe one day.

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gbalkam

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new build...
dual coil, 7 wraps each, 20ga stainless steel. 0.08 ohm
 

CashNVape

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ive never seen anyone at a comp with anything over .1...
that being said, ive never seen anyone at a comp vent a cell, either. and they dont reserve those builds for just comping, .06-.08 on a tube is an everyday affair for a lot of people...

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crazy, I have been going at it with 0.2ohms on a single 25r but I feel like I could go lower maybe .15 and not blow my self up

Sent from a phone
 

gbalkam

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crazy, I have been going at it with 0.2ohms on a single 25r but I feel like I could go lower maybe .15 and not blow my self up

Sent from a phone
Yeah, you should be fine at 0.15. Whenever asked, by people just starting to use mechs, I tell them 0.3 to 0.15. Start at the .3 and work down. And of course, battery safety. Check battery wraps before charging and again before putting them in your mod, check for tears. Test the volts frequently.. recharge at 3.4 to 3.2v. Only use good batteries, Sony, Samsung, LG, no re-branded. Make sure they are authentic. If something is fishy don't buy them (such as Samsung batteries at fasttech with a pulse rating... ) Avoid any battery with a pulse rating (not to be confused with continuous amp rating).

Also, check your batteries while using them to make sure they are not getting hot. Now, I know you probably have been using a mech for awhile, and know all this.. but it doesn't hurt to be reminded, especially when starting to build at a new level.
 

CashNVape

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Yeah, you should be fine at 0.15. Whenever asked, by people just starting to use mechs, I tell them 0.3 to 0.15. Start at the .3 and work down. And of course, battery safety. Check battery wraps before charging and again before putting them in your mod, check for tears. Test the volts frequently.. recharge at 3.4 to 3.2v. Only use good batteries, Sony, Samsung, LG, no re-branded. Make sure they are authentic. If something is fishy don't buy them (such as Samsung batteries at fasttech with a pulse rating... ) Avoid any battery with a pulse rating (not to be confused with continuous amp rating).

Also, check your batteries while using them to make sure they are not getting hot. Now, I know you probably have been using a mech for awhile, and know all this.. but it doesn't hurt to be reminded, especially when starting to build at a new level.
good info! even if it's been said it's good to repeat it! thanks

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gbalkam

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good info! even if it's been said it's good to repeat it! thanks

Sent from a phone
Given my preferences, every time you google "cloud" you will find a page with that info. lol. I might seem heartless at times, when talking about people having ... incidents... with mods. But you kind of have to be. If I mess up and blow my lips off, it isn't because of an "accident" or "It just happened" or because "I was only holding it" or "looking at it"... it would be because I did something that I should not have done. I do feel sorry for those people you read about online, like that kid that blinded himself. Not because he "was just holding the mod and it blew up",( I don't buy that for a split second), but rather because of the victim mentality that will make him easy prey. All I can really say, is IF someone does have a mishap, please be honest when telling the story. Like.. don't say, oh the battery just suddenly blew up... but "I didn't check the wrap on the battery, it had a hard short, and blew up" would be much more beneficial to others..

Thinking of my 1 near mishap, I had my mech in my pocket and leaned over a counter at a store, and the fire button got depressed, which was my fault for not making 100% sure it was locked or for having it in my pocket *breast pocket*. I am thinking of a nice little solution.. a case made of pvc piping, with a cap. Gonna have to check that out.
 

CashNVape

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Given my preferences, every time you google "cloud" you will find a page with that info. lol. I might seem heartless at times, when talking about people having ... incidents... with mods. But you kind of have to be. If I mess up and blow my lips off, it isn't because of an "accident" or "It just happened" or because "I was only holding it" or "looking at it"... it would be because I did something that I should not have done. I do feel sorry for those people you read about online, like that kid that blinded himself. Not because he "was just holding the mod and it blew up",( I don't buy that for a split second), but rather because of the victim mentality that will make him easy prey. All I can really say, is IF someone does have a mishap, please be honest when telling the story. Like.. don't say, oh the battery just suddenly blew up... but "I didn't check the wrap on the battery, it had a hard short, and blew up" would be much more beneficial to others..

Thinking of my 1 near mishap, I had my mech in my pocket and leaned over a counter at a store, and the fire button got depressed, which was my fault for not making 100% sure it was locked or for having it in my pocket *breast pocket*. I am thinking of a nice little solution.. a case made of pvc piping, with a cap. Gonna have to check that out.
well like me I currently only use a scndrl brass mod and it has no lock button is when I carry it it has no battery and the battery is in a little case on my pocket with the mech & rda.

every few rda fills I check the resistance on the rda with a meter and make sure the coils are not near the rda walls t cause a dead short. I also rotate my batteries once the voltage gets to 3.75vdc.

my next mech is going to be the advken honeycomb copper. it has a lock so well be a little better when carrying (probably still remove battery, or rda).

I don't Google vape accidents or explosions because it scares the shit outta me lol would rather just follow ohms law, use common sense and enjoy my vape


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gbalkam

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So just for shitsngiggles I built a 0.07 ohm coil. 6 wraps 20ga stainless steel dual coil. To be honest, the previous 0.08ohm 7 wrap build performed better, due I think to the extra surface area and airflow around the coils. Thereby proving the point.. lower isn't always better.

I figure Dual coil, 7 wraps, 20ga SS at 0.08ohm is Right At The sweet spot... coil area + 220 W @ 52 amp on a single 4.2v battery. (Note the @52 amp? THAT is why we preach DO NOT pay any attention to or buy batteries with a PULSE RATING! The battery is going to pulse at whatever I tell it to pulse at with the coil build... the "how long" I can fire is the tricky part.. ya gotta know this. (my battery has been pulse tested at 70amp for 5 seconds with a 30 second rest, *ya gotta know this too*, so I'm fine) The 0.07 did have a slightly faster ramp up, but did not perform as well once it got to temp.

Ever heard us say.. don't by cheap batteries, rebranded factory 2nds, or unknown batteries with dubious specs on the lable? That is why.
 

gbalkam

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well like me I currently only use a scndrl brass mod and it has no lock button is when I carry it it has no battery and the battery is in a little case on my pocket with the mech & rda.

every few rda fills I check the resistance on the rda with a meter and make sure the coils are not near the rda walls t cause a dead short. I also rotate my batteries once the voltage gets to 3.75vdc.

my next mech is going to be the advken honeycomb copper. it has a lock so well be a little better when carrying (probably still remove battery, or rda).

I don't Google vape accidents or explosions because it scares the shit outta me lol would rather just follow ohms law, use common sense and enjoy my vape


Sent from a phone
Me either, but there is always some idiot posting something about "OH vaping is so dangerous, I didn't do a thing and blew my tongue off..., I was just looking at the mod, sitting 8 feet away on the counter.. I wasn't holding it and pointing it at my face and holding in the fire button... I wasn't doing anything... " lol.. Funny, isn't it.. how in each of these incidents, it is always the vape gear at fault, and not the injured persons own stupidity? Kind of like a guy on trial for murder.. "Oh no your Honor.. I'm innocent! I didn't kill my 'ho wife and the guy from across the street that she was in bed with.. it was the gun that killed them.. I was just holding it... "
 

gbalkam

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GAK! Cough! Choke.. GAG.. choke cough.. damn forums..


I forgot to juice my wick....
 

conanthewarrior

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With a Mechanical mod, the lowest I have ever gone is 0.17, and I did try this out with a 25R for a few hits. No heat up was noticeable, and I am sure it would of been fine to continue, but I didn't.

I generally build to around 0.25 lowest now on my mechs, and find I can get an enjoyable vape at this level, usually a fair bit higher than this.

I don't really like going over my batteries CDR- I know of many people that do so, I just feel safe myself sticking within the CDR of a battery.
I can't check the Ohms. My atty is welded to the tube :)
I have never actually thought of this before- on Hybrid devices where the atty is part of the mod, how do you check resistance? Do you have to build on another RDA to check, then install them on the mod?

I ask as I don't actually own any mods like this, and wondered how you stayed safe without being able to check resistance? I know you could use a multimeter, but realise these are not the best for safety.
EDIT: Actually, why are these not the best for safety? I remember when learning being told to avoid them, but never exactly why.
 
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McAnythingReally

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I have never actually thought of this before- on Hybrid devices where the atty is part of the mod, how do you check resistance? Do you have to build on another RDA to check, then install them on the mod?

I ask as I don't actually own any mods like this, and wondered how you stayed safe without being able to check resistance? I know you could use a multimeter, but realise these are not the best for safety.
You nailed it, the only way to check resistance with a Hybrid is with the use of a Multimeter. Takes some getting used to, but its no less accurate then checking with a dedicated ohms reader or regulated mod. Frankly, its probably more accurate than many box mods lol
 

conanthewarrior

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You nailed it, the only way to check resistance with a Hybrid is with the use of a Multimeter. Takes some getting used to, but its no less accurate then checking with a dedicated ohms reader or regulated mod. Frankly, its probably more accurate than many box mods lol
Well, that does make sense. I don't know how accurate the average multimeter is, but it must be fairly accurate considering the things they are used for?
I also gather it is more accurate than some of my older mods, which display to .1 on screen-granted a lot of my newer mods read to 0.01-but a lot of multimeters offer readings more detailed than this.

Due to this, is there a specific reason Multimeters are generally told to be avoided for measuring resistance? As I currently use a Sigelei ohm reader after my very cheap one died, but I think the cheaper one was more accurate lol!
 
I personally have run a .08 on a 25r had a lot of hot button issues with that build lasted a whole whopping day. (this was by accident grabbed the wrong battery on the way out the door.) held up pretty well. i wouldn't reccomend it to anyone tho stay at about a .145 to a .15 just use a different build than usual.
 

gbalkam

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I'm sure the Samsung 25r's can take quite a lot of abuse. Check out what happens when you short one...

Not saying, "Hey, rip 50A from one! It's all good!" Worst-case, it still vents and you still get seriously hurt. It's the avalanche fallacy. Basically, you ski an unstable slope and maybe nothing happens, but that doesn't mean the next person to take on that slope can't be crushed just as easily as you got through it. Just because other people have done it and not had any catastrophes doesn't mean they can't happen. It's a gamble wherein the chances of having something terrible happen are very slim, but when you lose, the losses are very substantial. Small chance, monumental risk.

Human risk-assessment behavior is funny like that. We'll take better odds of not losing BIG over worse odds of losing something much smaller. If I ask you to bet 20$ on a coin toss with double payoff, you won't do it. But if I ask you to bet $1000 with the odds 20x in your favor, you'll do it, even if you can't afford to pay the $1000 in the event that you should lose. Or at least, most people predictably will. Point is, it's not about what you stand to lose, but the probability of losing. If you think you probably won't lose, you'll take bigger chances. We are wired to avoid all failure, big or small.

Personally, the furthest I'll take my 25r's is .16 on a tube mod. Even there, the performance dropoff is very real and noticeable. I'm measuring a net drop of .7v! Sometimes more! So realistically, we're looking at just a few amps over 20 being pulled. I can do a .2 that will outperform that .16 in every single area. But then, the net drop is ~.4v. This is why I'll never understand super-subbing on tubes. You are losing so much power to the battery sag that it's almost not worth the gains in current, which also take a hit from the voltage drop! A battery will perform better and better the further away from its IR you get.

And the reason for this performance difference is simple... ...the .2 is getting more optimal power. It's pulling more current at a higher voltage, relative to its mass. The sag from the stronger pull makes those deep sub-ohm builds power-aneimic. Of course, I know it still works, but there are better ways to maximize the ratio of power to mass/surface-area - ways that don't involve nearly the degree of risk that deep-subbing comes with.
Just because you picked up a couple catch phrases from the internet doesn't make you an expert. People building at below .015 and below 0.10 don't worry about battery lag. The reason being, we fire and pull so fast it isn't a consideration. You might take a 6 second pull at 0.2 ohm.. but at 0.08 ohm I am pulling at less that 2.5 seconds per hit, including the 1 second exhale to ramp the coil. So when you spout off about performance and battery lag and getting hurt when a battery vents, all you are doing is showing you don't know enough to be using a mech mod in the first place.
Maybe you should do a bit more study on why batteries are designed to vent, why mods have vent holes in them, and what to do IF your battery starts to vent. You should also note, in the video you posted, that battery vented all the way down to a 0 volt charge. But.. what didn't happen? It didn't blow up. Why? Because it is a high quality, brand name battery with good internal chemistry and was designed to vent out rather than blow up.

Now I might seem a bit harsh, but you are talking about things you have no knowledge of or experience with. I spent 6 months learning while using a regulated mod before I touched my first mech. I spent 2 months building above 0.15 ohm until I researched more about low ohm building and batteries. So where you are reposting what you found on google, I am putting into practice on a daily basis. Now don't get me wrong, always stay in the build zone you are comfortable with. You can vape happily above 0.2 ohms for years. That is what you like to do, and that is great! I'm just saying, don't try to teach something you haven't done.

Now, the reason people build at super sub ohm levels, if for cloud chasing, both to practice and compete. OR just to see how big they can make clouds for personal amusement. I don't vape all day on my cloud build..I stick to 0.11-0.12 for that. And I do go through a lot of batteries. (I have to recharge more often and replace batteries more often) That is the trade off between drawing 25 amps and drawing 50 amps. (which is my highest by the way) And again.. people building super low builds already know this. At least, they BETTER know this or they should be doing more studies.

One thing you might also notice, is unless it is a specific forum for cloud chasing, with experienced users, most people will not tell you how to build your coils. Oh they will tell you how to build a generic 0.3 ohm or higher build. But below that, you should already know. I don't mind telling someone how to build a 1.5 ohm RBA coil to run at 8 watts.. but I won't tell you how to build my 0.08 ohm coil i use for clouds.. ya gotta know that for yourself. I will say more surface = bigger clouds.. but not how to get that bigger surface.

Anyway vape SAFE within your limits and abilities everyone. I have to go do more research. Thinking about a kissing quad build. I'll prob post it in cloud chasing if and when I figure it all out. lol. No, nobody needs to tell me, I wouldn't listen, gotta work it out on my own... ya know?
 

gbalkam

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
ECF Refugee
Reddit Exile
Kissing quad didn't work out with the 21ga wire I was attempting to use. Ohms were to low or the coil was to big. To get the required resistance I would have had to use 4 coils at 21 wraps each. LOL.. even if they fit the deck, that one battery couldnt push enough watts to heat it. Less wraps dropped the resistance to much and the battery started to warm up much more quickly than i would prefer. Oh well.. I'll try a 24ga nicrome kissing quad later.
 

CashNVape

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
just ran a Samsung 25r green, with a 24amp draw. 15 hits no venting. battery is a bit warm.

Sent from a phone
 

conanthewarrior

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
just ran a Samsung 25r green, with a 24amp draw. 15 hits no venting. battery is a bit warm.

Sent from a phone
Yesterday I went mechanical for a change, and for me fairly low- 0.2 Ohms, small 26G dual coils that heat up very fast.

I used both a green 25R, and a yellow LG HE4 throughout the day. I found the 25R to get warm during use, the HE4 seemed to stay cool. This was using the same mod (I planned on using a SMPL clone but used an AV able style mod). Do you find that 25R's get warmer than HE4's running the same build?
I only ask this as I am not as experienced with mech mods as regulated, and wondered if it was a normal thing, as on paper the batteries appear to be identical.
 

robot zombie

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Just because you picked up a couple catch phrases from the internet doesn't make you an expert. People building at below .015 and below 0.10 don't worry about battery lag. The reason being, we fire and pull so fast it isn't a consideration. You might take a 6 second pull at 0.2 ohm.. but at 0.08 ohm I am pulling at less that 2.5 seconds per hit, including the 1 second exhale to ramp the coil. So when you spout off about performance and battery lag and getting hurt when a battery vents, all you are doing is showing you don't know enough to be using a mech mod in the first place.
Maybe you should do a bit more study on why batteries are designed to vent, why mods have vent holes in them, and what to do IF your battery starts to vent. You should also note, in the video you posted, that battery vented all the way down to a 0 volt charge. But.. what didn't happen? It didn't blow up. Why? Because it is a high quality, brand name battery with good internal chemistry and was designed to vent out rather than blow up.
I have been using them for years without issue. FWIW I did have my run with super subbing. I'm not just pulling shit out of my ass here! I don't take offense but I think you've got me pegged all wrong. The point of posting that video was to show how safe battery chemistry has gotten. But battery sag is very readily observable at any load and more so as you increase it. There are trade-offs. I've seen it and experienced it myself. I test what I learn on the internet before I go talking about it. And that is what I speak to. I understand the ramp-up difference. Maybe I should have clarified that super-subbing isn't the way to go if you want balanced performance. To me, that is the ideal no matter what you're trying to do. "There has to be a better way." was more the message. Super-subbing isn't the most efficient way to get the intended result. It brings in a degree of strain and risk that I don't think is necessary anymore and I really do wonder why people cling to it - I've got to question it, though even I can acknowledge that this is merely my opinion. If you know what you're doing but take a different approach, that's fine too. That post clearly wasn't for you. I wouldn't walk up to a group of cloud chasers and tell them they're doing it wrong lol.

Though to be fair, I'm not much of a cloud chaser anymore. When I do, I stick to series. The performance difference is huge ime.

Now I might seem a bit harsh, but you are talking about things you have no knowledge of or experience with. I spent 6 months learning while using a regulated mod before I touched my first mech. I spent 2 months building above 0.15 ohm until I researched more about low ohm building and batteries. So where you are reposting what you found on google, I am putting into practice on a daily basis. Now don't get me wrong, always stay in the build zone you are comfortable with. You can vape happily above 0.2 ohms for years. That is what you like to do, and that is great! I'm just saying, don't try to teach something you haven't done.
I've been through the same progression. I just have a different attitude towards the super-subbing approach. I don't understand the culture behind it, but I respect it. It just isn't for me. But just because we have different opinions doesn't mean I lack knowledge or experience when it comes to these things. Yanno? I get why you might think that, but I'm not here to trash cloud chasing with my 'superior' knowledge. I was more just stating why I myself don't bother. I guess when it comes down to it, I'm not interested in comps at all, so if I want clouds, it doesn't make sense to use a tube when I could just as easily go series or para-series and arguably take things even further. You do you man!

Now, the reason people build at super sub ohm levels, if for cloud chasing, both to practice and compete. OR just to see how big they can make clouds for personal amusement. I don't vape all day on my cloud build..I stick to 0.11-0.12 for that. And I do go through a lot of batteries. (I have to recharge more often and replace batteries more often) That is the trade off between drawing 25 amps and drawing 50 amps. (which is my highest by the way) And again.. people building super low builds already know this. At least, they BETTER know this or they should be doing more studies.
Now this, I agree with completely. The problem is that this forum attracts a lot of new vapers who often jump right into that realm not knowing what they're doing, efest mystery batteries and all.
 

martnargh

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
My adv is .08 on a tube using 25rs. It's come to a point that all my builds gravitate to more or less that resistance. It's not like I'm trying to build low.. but I like a hot vape with a quick ramp up and dense vapor and that usually equals low resistance on a tube.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 

gbalkam

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
ECF Refugee
Reddit Exile
I have been using them for years without issue. FWIW I did have my run with super subbing. I'm not just pulling shit out of my ass here! I don't take offense but I think you've got me pegged all wrong. The point of posting that video was to show how safe battery chemistry has gotten. But battery sag is very readily observable at any load and more so as you increase it. There are trade-offs. I've seen it and experienced it myself. I test what I learn on the internet before I go talking about it. And that is what I speak to. I understand the ramp-up difference. Maybe I should have clarified that super-subbing isn't the way to go if you want balanced performance. To me, that is the ideal no matter what you're trying to do. "There has to be a better way." was more the message. Super-subbing isn't the most efficient way to get the intended result. It brings in a degree of strain and risk that I don't think is necessary anymore and I really do wonder why people cling to it - I've got to question it, though even I can acknowledge that this is merely my opinion. If you know what you're doing but take a different approach, that's fine too. That post clearly wasn't for you. I wouldn't walk up to a group of cloud chasers and tell them they're doing it wrong lol.

Though to be fair, I'm not much of a cloud chaser anymore. When I do, I stick to series. The performance difference is huge ime.


I've been through the same progression. I just have a different attitude towards the super-subbing approach. I don't understand the culture behind it, but I respect it. It just isn't for me. But just because we have different opinions doesn't mean I lack knowledge or experience when it comes to these things. Yanno? I get why you might think that, but I'm not here to trash cloud chasing with my 'superior' knowledge. I was more just stating why I myself don't bother. I guess when it comes down to it, I'm not interested in comps at all, so if I want clouds, it doesn't make sense to use a tube when I could just as easily go series or para-series and arguably take things even further. You do you man!


Now this, I agree with completely. The problem is that this forum attracts a lot of new vapers who often jump right into that realm not knowing what they're doing, efest mystery batteries and all.
Perhaps. Just a couple thing in what you wrote seemed kind of off. Like with ramp up for example. If i have a long ramp up time, i lower the resistance. If my resistance is to low, I change wire types. The culture behind it, is like collecting stamps or butterflies. Just a hobby. And that hobby aspect helped me quit tobacco. Like if i was spending 8 hours working out a coil build, i wasn't thinking about lighting a cigarette. I agree, there are better ways to get big humping clouds, like a 315W regulated box I saw with 4 batteries. I doubt I will ever try a multi cell mech.. those scare the piss outta me.
Apologies for any misunderstandings. Like I said, that bit about ramp up and battery lag made me a bit nervous. I get what you meant now. So even if a couple feathers got fluffed, its good to get things clarified. I get what you mean about balance. Like.. How come I have a humping 200w box and that clown is getting bigger clouds on one stinking little battery??? Its a lot of math and physics, but there is an answer. The short and simple answer is mechs and regulated mods are apples and oranges. With a regulated mod, you just add more wraps for clouds and pump up the watts.. and if you need more watts, you buy a bigger reg mod. (like 3 or 4 cells). With a mech mod, you lower the resistance and increase wire surface area. Lowering the resistance increases the watts, but it is risky if you don't know what you are doing. Which is also why you need to know your batteries stress test results, have top rate batteries, and do a half dozen or so things on a check list. (Like I check my batteries before I charge them, then again before I put them in my mod) Inspecting the deck for wire clippings, making sure the coil legs don't touch to opposite pole and short.. etc etc etc.

I will say, its getting to be a pain in the ass, getting up to change batteries every 4 hours.
I did finish my quad build, but decided not to do the kissing coils. To much of a pain in the ass on a 4 post atty.
AND.. time to change batteries again. lol
 

robot zombie

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Perhaps. Just a couple thing in what you wrote seemed kind of off. Like with ramp up for example. If i have a long ramp up time, i lower the resistance. If my resistance is to low, I change wire types. The culture behind it, is like collecting stamps or butterflies. Just a hobby. And that hobby aspect helped me quit tobacco. Like if i was spending 8 hours working out a coil build, i wasn't thinking about lighting a cigarette. I agree, there are better ways to get big humping clouds, like a 315W regulated box I saw with 4 batteries. I doubt I will ever try a multi cell mech.. those scare the piss outta me.
Apologies for any misunderstandings. Like I said, that bit about ramp up and battery lag made me a bit nervous. I get what you meant now. So even if a couple feathers got fluffed, its good to get things clarified. I get what you mean about balance. Like.. How come I have a humping 200w box and that clown is getting bigger clouds on one stinking little battery??? Its a lot of math and physics, but there is an answer. The short and simple answer is mechs and regulated mods are apples and oranges. With a regulated mod, you just add more wraps for clouds and pump up the watts.. and if you need more watts, you buy a bigger reg mod. (like 3 or 4 cells). With a mech mod, you lower the resistance and increase wire surface area. Lowering the resistance increases the watts, but it is risky if you don't know what you are doing. Which is also why you need to know your batteries stress test results, have top rate batteries, and do a half dozen or so things on a check list. (Like I check my batteries before I charge them, then again before I put them in my mod) Inspecting the deck for wire clippings, making sure the coil legs don't touch to opposite pole and short.. etc etc etc.

I will say, its getting to be a pain in the ass, getting up to change batteries every 4 hours.
I did finish my quad build, but decided not to do the kissing coils. To much of a pain in the ass on a 4 post atty.
AND.. time to change batteries again. lol
No feathers ruffled over here man. In these situations I make it a point to see opportunities, not obstacles. It's hard to see your own ass sometimes. It's worth having the conversations and not taking everything so personally that you never learn anything about yourself or anything else, for that matter. The internet can be an incredible tool or a source of constant annoyance, depending on how one handles things. There are going to be misunderstandings. There are going to be disagreements. And that's okay! If you hop online without expecting to have your views challenged everywhere you go, then the nicest thing I can say is that you are quite naive lol

I see where you went with my comments on ramp up and sag. See, I have a habit of talking about one thing and thinking about something else. I have become so used to series unregulated devices that I forgot to mention that I had those in mind. Upping the voltage and lowering the current draw gets you a more power-efficient vape, watt per watt and mm² per mm². Probably should've mentioned that I was referring to that approach.

I'm actually all about the math and physics. That's what draws me to mechs. I agree, it is a great distraction. I like to tinker with the balance... ...to be able to just crunch numbers and use logic to get the results you're after. There's something really satisfying about it. You can get surprising results with the right balance. If you're good, you can even get more for less. It can all be done with any device that can get you the power. But like you said, it really is apples to oranges. Mechs and regulated devices require different approaches to get the same results, though it can be done. Personally I prefer to take as much strain off of the batteries to do it. That's just the direction I found myself going in over these past couple of years. I got tired of swapping batteries and constantly having to be super hard-up with them. I'm more interested in pushing the boundaries of what can effectively be used as an ADV. I like the challenge.

It's funny you don't do multi-battery mechs. I won't do the super-sub thing but I'm perfectly comfortable running .3's on a series mech. I'd like to try going a little lower with para-series and 25mm+ RDA's. Of course with more batteries there's just that much that can go wrong and that much more to keep up with, but just as it is with tubes, it can be managed. I much prefer series for all of the surface area you can cram in with little sacrifice to ramp up....

...I say as I vape off of a .15 on a SMPL.
 
Last edited:

gbalkam

Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
ECF Refugee
Reddit Exile
No feathers ruffled over here man. In these situations I make it a point to see opportunities, not obstacles. It's hard to see your own ass sometimes. It's worth having the conversations and not taking everything so personally that you never learn anything about yourself or anything else, for that matter. The internet can be an incredible tool or a source of constant annoyance, depending on how one handles things. There are going to be misunderstandings. There are going to be disagreements. And that's okay! If you hop online without expecting to have your views challenged everywhere you go, then the nicest thing I can say is that you are quite naive lol

I see where you went with my comments on ramp up and sag. See, I have a habit of talking about one thing and thinking about something else. I have become so used to series unregulated devices that I forgot to mention that I had those in mind. Upping the voltage and lowering the current draw gets you a more power-efficient vape, watt per watt and mm² per mm². Probably should've mentioned that I was referring to that approach.

I'm actually all about the math and physics. That's what draws me to mechs. I agree, it is a great distraction. I like to tinker with the balance... ...to be able to just crunch numbers and use logic to get the results you're after. There's something really satisfying about it. You can get surprising results with the right balance. If you're good, you can even get more for less. It can all be done with any device that can get you the power. But like you said, it really is apples to oranges. Mechs and regulated devices require different approaches to get the same results, though it can be done. Personally I prefer to take as much strain off of the batteries to do it. That's just the direction I found myself going in over these past couple of years. I got tired of swapping batteries and constantly having to be super hard-up with them. I'm more interested in pushing the boundaries of what can effectively be used as an ADV. I like the challenge.

It's funny you don't do multi-battery mechs. I won't do the super-sub thing but I'm perfectly comfortable running .3's on a series mech. I'd like to try going a little lower with para-series and 25mm+ RDA's. Of course with more batteries there's just that much that can go wrong and that much more to keep up with, but just as it is with tubes, it can be managed. I much prefer series for all of the surface area you can cram in with little sacrifice to ramp up....

...I say as I vape off of a .15 on a SMPL.
Im pretty new to mechs. only about 2 months. So I am a bit nervous about going into multiple cell mechs, for now. I might at some point, if i see a reason to do so. For example...
Right now, I am running a 0.07 dual coil build. (same one I messaged you about) *lol don't want to give newbies stupid ideas, right?*
What I would need to find out.. is how dual cells would be of benefit. How 2 cells affect the overall resistance, heat, watts, amps, etc etc etc. And of course, I'll have to look all that up for myself, because that is how I have to do things to learn. (It is also why I have a 200g tobacco can half full of bits of wire and old wicks)
I'll probably start looking into series mechs more when I get my So Horney (clone) RDA. LOL That's kind of like..Penthouse for cloud chasers...
(Man, I wish my cousin, the machinist, was on facebook.. THEN I would have an RDA!)
Anyway it took me quite a while before I felt that I knew enough about mechs and coils and ohms law etc to go to a mechanical. I'll have to figure out if i have a good enough reason to go to multi cell mech.

Something that is really fun.. is mentally coming up with a coil build, then trying to build it, and finding out there is either A way to much wire mass to run or B resistance is far below what is "safe". I consider 0.07 safe enough, considering factors I mentioned in previous posts, but 0.05 or lower is like no bloody way! Might be safe for someone far more advanced than I am, just not for me..

Now you have me curious, about the properties of multi cell mechs. lol. Gonna check them out.
 

Wylde_77

Bronze Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Going that low in a single battery is dumb and people that do it should feel stupid.

Parallel boxes exist for a reason. Leave five amps of head room in each battery. Go ten below what your total amperage is. If your going to use Samsung 25rs use 30 amps as your cap. You can get 0.14 ohms on a pair of parallel batteries.

If you use VTC4s or VTC3s (AKA the only real 30 amp batteries) you can get 50 amps (60 amps total out of the parallel batteries minus 5 amps per battery) and go down to 0.084 safely.

Don't be stupid. Don't do dumb things like try to draw past the C rating of a battery. Those guys are going to blow a hand off one day. Or look like The Dark Knight's version of Two Face some day.

Also, stop buying Efest batteries. Don't support those parasites.
Vtc4 and 5 ARE NOT 30amp 18650's they are 20A The only REAL 30A 18650's are the lg HB batteries. If your gonna post know your stuff there is no 30A 18650 above 1500mah ask mooch
 

brandon555

Member For 3 Years
Vtc4 and 5 ARE NOT 30amp 18650's they are 20A The only REAL 30A 18650's are the lg HB batteries. If your gonna post know your stuff there is no 30A 18650 above 1500mah ask mooch
He said vtc3's and vtc4's but yeah neither of them are a true 30a battery, I think Mooch ended up rating the vtc4 at 23 cont.
 

Number3124

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Vtc4 and 5 ARE NOT 30amp 18650's they are 20A The only REAL 30A 18650's are the lg HB batteries. If your gonna post know your stuff there is no 30A 18650 above 1500mah ask mooch
It was a while ago when I said that I believe. I'd not seen Mooch's testing results at the time. At the time I wrote that the general consensus was that those batteries were the real deal. We know better now.
 

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