Where's the nicotine anymore? 0.3.6

[goodentree]

Did I miss some huge announcement where every "high-end" juice company decided to only offer 0mg (seriously WTF), 3mg (very low), and 6m (low)? I fall for it every time I see a 40% all e-juice sale. I find a new flavor in a beautiful nifty package that seems like it will be fantastic, and grid my teeth seeing 0,3,6 only. At least offer a damn 12mg! it's getting to be that i can only buy 12mg and higher from a few places now.

Comment: but have you tried 6mg? (please)
Comment: There's no way he can drip 18mg, that has to be wrong (wife buying me juice at local vape shop)
Comment: Trust me, you don't need more that 6mg. (really? captain know-it-all who just started vaping 3 month ago)
Comment: There's just not a market for anything over 6mg. (really? do all mods only go up to 30 watts? are there only 3 kinds of tanks on the market? and only 3 ways to build a coil?)

From and industry who's foundation has always been about variety and ingenuity and somehow we all fit into 0.3.6?

and because I'm ranting, I'll add one more thing: Gearbest sucks. Gearbest makes Fasttech seem like Amazon prime. If joe would take their balls out of his mouth for just 1 second, he'd see that too

*mic dropped*

 

[Artemis]

I decided back in 2010 to make my own eliquid. Most of the eliquid I found was garbage. In addition, I vaped from 36-42mg/ml . At the time I only had time for a quick break and no chain vaping occurred. Some people (like me) I don't absorb the nicotine like others. It did take a huge dose to satisfy my nic needs.
I am glad I'm down to 1.5mg (3mg on bad days). I hope to eliminate the nic soon-ish.


I refuse to sub ohm. Not my style and I value my lung capacity.

 

[Troy Brown]

I too find this "Low Nic" e-juice a load of crap.
I have a lot of friends that drip and they too wish more of the stuff available was above 8.
It blows.
And I have been adding nic to those bottles. And it dulutes it somewhat I think. I have to let it sit for weeks to blend before I can use it with a good flavoring coming through.

Wish they would offer up higher stuff. Not saying to stop selling the lower, but have a few in the higher as well for us. (They can have low nic as their dominant offerings, just make a small percentage in the higher realm and they could make even more money).
With a higher offering, I would buy instead of passing.

 

[robot zombie]

0, 3, and 6 are more popular because of drippers. When you're running big coils at the 80w+ range, you don't need a whole lot of nic because there's so much more vapor. This also means that you rip through juice much faster.

In theory, it doesn't even have to be the most popular style to dominate the market. I do the high-power, sub-ohm thing and can easily shoot through 30ml in a day. And that's really nothing compared to what some folks go through. We rip through absurdly higher amounts of juice.

One good thing about it is that it should drive prices down, as nobody is going to want to pay $20 for a 30 that only lasts a day. The first people to offer it for less than that will snatch up all of the profits from what is probably the largest juice market.

Wish they would offer up higher stuff. Not saying to stop selling the lower, but have a few in the higher as well for us. (They can have low nic as their dominant offerings, just make a small percentage in the higher realm and they could make even more money).
With a higher offering, I would buy instead of passing.

Yeah, that's the only way to do it. But for some, it is easier said than done. The risk is always greater with lower volume items. It's easier to focus on the more guaranteed investments. You are forced to sell the rest at a lower margin and people tend not to like the necessary mark-up for something as simple as a different connector, color, finish, nic %, what have you. Carrying the less popular variations of things can be a bottleneck in your backroom and budget if you are simply unlucky. The 0-3-6 market is more of a sure bet.

You have to have a larger overall customer base to sustain a wider selection. The smaller the shop, the less variation they can afford to stock. There is a bear-minimum in terms of sales and volume when it comes to specialty items. It costs more to stock items that don't sell as well. Buying in smaller quantities isn't nearly as profitable. You have to be able to buy enough to get a price that you can turn a profit on.

And then you have to hope that enough people will consistently come in to buy it. Since it's something more sought after by this smaller market, you can pass the added stocking expense onto the consumer and maybe they'll come to you to buy it because you're the only one that has it. Or maybe they won't like paying more and they'll go online.

It's one of those things that seems simple, but can be harder to execute in reality. It's not a straightforward balancing act. It's a fluctuating game that you have to play. For many, there are simply other things they can invest their time and money into and see better returns on. They have to see to those things first.

I'm not all that savvy, but this is what people who run successful businesses tend to say about the concept of variety. It's the same reason you don't see products represented in colors/sizes that one would expect to be popular sellers. The more variations you add, the more it cuts into the profits of the most popular one. It's not where the money that keeps things going is. Some customers literally are not worth having, sadly. Even mature businesses can't always afford to tap every market that's within their grasp.


Now, if you're mixing house juice, there really isn't much of an excuse for not keeping extremely potent nic on hand for making existing stock high-nic when needed. That's a no-brainer.

Captain know-it-all is still a dick, though. Probably doesn't know there was a time when 12-18-24 was the norm.

 

[MagicJosh]

Did I miss some huge announcement where every "high-end" juice company decided to only offer 0mg (seriously WTF), 3mg (very low), and 6m (low)? I fall for it every time I see a 40% all e-juice sale. I find a new flavor in a beautiful nifty package that seems like it will be fantastic, and grid my teeth seeing 0,3,6 only. At least offer a damn 12mg! it's getting to be that i can only buy 12mg and higher from a few places now.

Comment: but have you tried 6mg? (please)
Comment: There's no way he can drip 18mg, that has to be wrong (wife buying me juice at local vape shop)
Comment: Trust me, you don't need more that 6mg. (really? captain know-it-all who just started vaping 3 month ago)
Comment: There's just not a market for anything over 6mg. (really? do all mods only go up to 30 watts? are there only 3 kinds of tanks on the market? and only 3 ways to build a coil?)

From and industry who's foundation has always been about variety and ingenuity and somehow we all fit into 0.3.6?

and because I'm ranting, I'll add one more thing: Gearbest sucks. Gearbest makes Fasttech seem like Amazon prime. If joe would take their balls out of his mouth for just 1 second, he'd see that too

*mic dropped*

If you use a Griffin RTA or similar 6 mg's should be good enough for you! Because it produces a lot of clouds and you inhale allot more then other tanks. I hear you though. The best 24 mg's juice I tried was Hangsen Smart E liquid Shisha, It packs a punch and makes you not even think of smoking again.

 

[Synphul]

From what I can tell the market is shifting. When mtl was more the popular method the higher nic juices were easier to come by. As time went on devices have shifted to higher wattage, single to dual to triple battery setups, multiple coil dl style subtanks and rta's. Many find the higher nic in cloud chucking devices has a tendency to overload people on nic so as tank volumes and cloud volumes increased and have become the front page items most everywhere the juice has followed suit with higher vg content and lower nic.

It likely makes more sense for the sellers since cloud chasers are likely to go through more juice than mtl folks. It takes a lot of vaping mtl puffing off a clearomizer to go through 30ml of juice. A number of people with dual, triple, quad coil setups in their drippers or rta's and high power mods talk about blowing through 60-100ml a day. Juice guzzlers are money makers.

 

[AndriaD]

The problem is because of all these vape HUFFERS, ripping thru 30ml a day -- that's a week's worth!

I've never had much of a problem because I've never been able to use anything above 10mg, and I'm down to 3.5mg now, but it does seem pretty shitty, right along with there being no really great tight-draw RDAs anymore. Not all of us wanna huff our vape, nor go thru 30ml a day! I just pray that my 2 Achilles and 2 magmas will remain functional.

Andria

 

[Paratech]

I see both sides of this situation.
Granted I am one who burns through anywhere from 25 - 50 ml per day depending on hardware, mood, attitude, workload.
Since I DIY I don't have this issue but I do understand the complaint.
The down side is (as previously mentioned) the market is changing.
While you may be a high nic content buyer, the majority (at least in your area) seem to have changed to low nic content.
While I agree that you could just add your own nic to the low nic premix that you bought, if you were going to do that you might as well go full ut DIY and save a lot more $.
However, not everyone wants to go through all that.
The unfortunate part for you is if the market stays on the path it is currently on, you will be the minority consumer so you'll find it even more difficult to find the juice you are after.

 

[Time]

I vape 8 and 12 and I find it in my closet after I make it.

I think you'll see a return to the higher nic juices. The FDA is going to disapprove of high wattage devices. While many of us will know how to get around the FDA in a DIY fashion, most will not and will have to have higher nic juice. That's my guess anyway.

Still, I'd get into DIY. It's stupid easy.

 

[Synphul]

I don't down anyone who vapes a ton, though I'm not sure how they do it. I was a mtl vaper who had to adjust to dl somewhat. The rta I got I thought would be an either/or and it's not for mtl at all without some modifications. Even with dl I'm hard pressed to go through more than 4.5-5ml a day. Maybe it's because I'm using a single coil rta vs a dual coil, maybe because I'm not vaping as often as others.

Though I vape all day I'm dl vaping on the same juice I had for mtl which is between 12-18mg/ml nic. A few juices I have are 0-3mg. Maybe the higher nic means I'm not chain vaping as fast as other folks. I'm not a cloud chaser but it definitely puts out bigger clouds than the mtl style vape pen I was using previously. Hard for ppl to say well if you dl vape you won't vape over 6mg, maybe that's the common practice but doesn't necessarily apply to everyone.

From a business aspect I could see catering to the lower nic if that's what appealed to the folks burning through 30, 60, 100ml a day vs those who won't be back for another bottle of juice until the end of the week. That person going through 30ml a day vs a week is going to promise my business 5-7x the volume per customer. From a practical standpoint I can see not wanting 12-18mg nic at those volumes of juice, it may very well cause nic sickness.

The whole market though sees more promise of sales I think from the cloud chasing segment. The chances of someone who mtl puffs getting all their friends together to go take a trip to the vape shop vs a bunch of people looking to have a cloud session on the weekend probably isn't as high. There aren't many clearomizers anymore, there are only a handful of rta's setup for mtl vaping vs the bigger wider bore rta's. Even the small vape kits which used to be geared toward mtl vapers are using things like the ego one and other kits to market pocket sized cloud machines.

 

[AndriaD]

I don't down anyone who vapes a ton, though I'm not sure how they do it. I was a mtl vaper who had to adjust to dl somewhat. The rta I got I thought would be an either/or and it's not for mtl at all without some modifications. Even with dl I'm hard pressed to go through more than 4.5-5ml a day. Maybe it's because I'm using a single coil rta vs a dual coil, maybe because I'm not vaping as often as others.

Though I vape all day I'm dl vaping on the same juice I had for mtl which is between 12-18mg/ml nic. A few juices I have are 0-3mg. Maybe the higher nic means I'm not chain vaping as fast as other folks. I'm not a cloud chaser but it definitely puts out bigger clouds than the mtl style vape pen I was using previously. Hard for ppl to say well if you dl vape you won't vape over 6mg, maybe that's the common practice but doesn't necessarily apply to everyone.

From a business aspect I could see catering to the lower nic if that's what appealed to the folks burning through 30, 60, 100ml a day vs those who won't be back for another bottle of juice until the end of the week. That person going through 30ml a day vs a week is going to promise my business 5-7x the volume per customer. From a practical standpoint I can see not wanting 12-18mg nic at those volumes of juice, it may very well cause nic sickness.

The whole market though sees more promise of sales I think from the cloud chasing segment. The chances of someone who mtl puffs getting all their friends together to go take a trip to the vape shop vs a bunch of people looking to have a cloud session on the weekend probably isn't as high. There aren't many clearomizers anymore, there are only a handful of rta's setup for mtl vaping vs the bigger wider bore rta's. Even the small vape kits which used to be geared toward mtl vapers are using things like the ego one and other kits to market pocket sized cloud machines.

For some of us, it's not a matter of CHOICE: it's a matter of what our lungs can handle. After smoking for 39 yrs -- developing adult-onset asthma after the first 10 and keeping on smoking for another 29 yrs -- cloud chasing is right outta the question! I vape to not smoke, PERIOD, END OF STORY. It's simply not fair for this to come along to enable us to quit smoking... and then fucking ride off and leave some of us behind! Those of us who needed it the most!!!

Andria

 

[Jimi D]

Be a man and ween down for Christ's sake! I started at 36mg 6 years ago. Now I mtl 6mg. There's no reason to be getting jacked on all that nic Lol

 

[Synphul]

@AndriaD I never suggested it was fair or the right way to go about it. Just that I understood from a business perspective. Businesses want to be as inclusive as possible but they still answer to the bottom line. It's a business unfortunately, not a humanitarian project. I don't personally have a need for all the cloud chasing style either. Luckily I'm not as restricted due to health.

Now that deeming regs could cost these companies a ton of money to get approval per flavor AND per nic content, cutting from 0-24mg down to 0-6mg options usually means halving their product line and thereby halving their approval submissions while likely retaining 80-85% of their customer base. It's not a testament to how wonderful it is, just the logic behind it. Vaping has certainly gone from simply a smoking alternative to a spectator sport in many regards. Ex smokers aren't their only customer base by far.

 

[skt239]

I ordered a few new juices today from flawless and was happy to see they offer 2mg nic. I wish the scale as 1.5, 2 and 4.

 

[AndriaD]

@AndriaD I never suggested it was fair or the right way to go about it. Just that I understood from a business perspective. Businesses want to be as inclusive as possible but they still answer to the bottom line. It's a business unfortunately, not a humanitarian project. I don't personally have a need for all the cloud chasing style either. Luckily I'm not as restricted due to health.

Now that deeming regs could cost these companies a ton of money to get approval per flavor AND per nic content, cutting from 0-24mg down to 0-6mg options usually means halving their product line and thereby halving their approval submissions while likely retaining 80-85% of their customer base. It's not a testament to how wonderful it is, just the logic behind it. Vaping has certainly gone from simply a smoking alternative to a spectator sport in many regards. Ex smokers aren't their only customer base by far.

Well I'm not victimized on ejuice, since I started making my own back in 2014, for a lot of different reasons -- cost, customization of flavor, sweetness, and nic level, WTA (then), and absence of diketones; it's on the devices that I feel overlooked, left-behind, and treated as inconsequential. Having found an RDA that I consider perfect in every detail (and quite a few tight-draw tootlers concur!), it irks the very living shit outta me that nobody makes it anymore -- not the originator, and not even any clone makers.

It doesn't bother me one bit, however, that mod makers have moved on to hellfire-in-a-box levels of wattage -- I've scored quite a few great deals on 30w and 40w mods, and recently even the CF4-75wTC-18650.

Andria

 

[Time]

Be a man and ween down for Christ's sake! I started at 36mg 6 years ago. Now I mtl 6mg. There's no reason to be getting jacked on all that nic Lol

LOL. How many ml you go through in a day? My mg are higher but I bet I use less nic than you in a day.

 

[SMOKIE]

If you can not get a higher nicotine level in your favorite juice, first ask the vendor they might make it for you in the level you want, if not then just buy some nicotine, and add it in.

 

[SMOKIE]

I ordered a few new juices today from flawless and was happy to see they offer 2mg nic. I wish the scale as 1.5, 2 and 4.

Halo offers juice in 1.5 mg https://www.halocigs.com/e-liquid/premium-flavors/

 

[AndriaD]

If you can not get a higher nicotine level in your favorite juice, first ask the vendor they might make it for you in the level you want, if not then just buy some nicotine, and add it in.

This. It's not rocket surgery.

Andria

 

[mikeyboy74]

Do some really enjoy vaping all day? I do not. I would rather get a fix that won't leave me craving for the next few hours. I'm mostly a sub ohm DL vaper, use 6 nic, less in tfv4 only. I only vape maybe 5 to 7 ml per day. This parallels how I was with analogs. I liked my cowboy killers, but only about 10 per day.

 

[AndriaD]

Do some really enjoy vaping all day?

Before I started taking my smokes outdoors, I smoked 3.5 pks a day. One right after the other; sometimes I lit them off the old butt. So yeah, I vape all day, because I CAN.

I liked my cowboy killers, but only about 10 per day.

I smoked lights and then ultra-lights when the lights started making me cough with every drag... but even after I took them outside, I smoked 20-40 cigs a day. Which was better than the 70 I smoked when I smoked indoors. So now I vape so I don't have to go outdoors, and I vape anytime I want to. Sometimes 3-5 hits in a row; sometimes I don't take a hit for 15-20 mins... the choice is mine.

If it wasn't for all this crap with the FDA, I'd probably have stayed around 9mg indefinitely. But, I saw the writing on the wall, and I want the 3 liters I have in the freezer to last for the rest of my life (I'm 55, so maybe 30-35 yrs). so I took steps to wean down. Slowly, so I didn't even notice. Now at 3.5mg; next mix will be 3.2mg. Soon I'll be at 3mg and just stay there.

Andria

 

[Troy Brown]

Like I mentioned before, I do add nic to mine. Just wish I didnt have to. And now, if I am understanding it correctly, the heavy handed fda will soon make that choice hard to find and accomplish by denying me of that route by making it illegal to get. Yeah, I got some stashed away. But that wont last forever.

 

[Satchvai]

Do the DIY thing. There is plenty of great resources here to help with that. Besides, with the Deeming, companies can't Willy nilly add more nicotine as a tobacco manufacturer.

 

[Rossum]

Be a man and ween down for Christ's sake! I started at 36mg 6 years ago. Now I mtl 6mg. There's no reason to be getting jacked on all that nic Lol

Thanks for the advice, but I've been happy at 15 mg/ml for 2-1/2 years now and that's where I intend to stay.

As to the original question, "Where's the nicotine anymore?" I can answer that: It's in my freezer.

 

[Whiskey]

Moved to Ejuice area

 

[Rossum]

The whole market though sees more promise of sales I think from the cloud chasing segment. The chances of someone who mtl puffs getting all their friends together to go take a trip to the vape shop vs a bunch of people looking to have a cloud session on the weekend probably isn't as high. There aren't many clearomizers anymore, there are only a handful of rta's setup for mtl vaping vs the bigger wider bore rta's. Even the small vape kits which used to be geared toward mtl vapers are using things like the ego one and other kits to market pocket sized cloud machines.

Thing is, almost all smokers MTL their cigarettes. It seems to me that by focusing on gear and juice that only works DL, the market is abandoning the new vaper, i.e. those who wish to try vaping as a substitute for smoking. In the long run, that strikes me as a huge mistake.

 

[AndriaD]

Thing is, almost all smokers MTL their cigarettes. It seems to me that by focusing on gear and juice that only works DL, the market is abandoning the new vaper, i.e. those who wish to try vaping as a substitute for smoking. In the long run, that strikes me as a huge mistake.

Totally agree! And yeah, a lot of vapers do eventually move to DL -- but not all of us! I never huffed my cigarettes, and have no plans and no desire to start huffing my vape -- because huffing wouldn't satisfy my urge to smoke, which is more like a craving to suck a thick milkshake thru a straw. And no, milkshakes wouldn't satisfy either, PLUS, would make me fat as all get out!

Andria

 

[Mjfranci]

...because huffing wouldn't satisfy my urge to smoke, which is more like a craving to suck a thick milkshake thru a straw

Sorry, the FDA wouldn't allow that.
Also, if you order DIY flavoring online, your computer and keyboard will be classified as tobacco products... ... ...

On a more serious note, I became a DL inadvertently when I gave in to the hype of some tank (Ego One, I think, with the Evic VTC). I initially put it away in disgust and returned to it months later when I was in a rut. I adapted to it and the rest is history. That said, I have remained a flavor/satisfaction chaser; not a cloud enthusiast. And I do still enjoy a 6mg juice occasionally, so I feel your pain.

 

[AndriaD]

Sorry, the FDA wouldn't allow that.
Also, if you order DIY flavoring online, your computer and keyboard will be classified as tobacco products... ... ...

On a more serious note, I became a DL inadvertently when I gave in to the hype of some tank (Ego One, I think, with the Evic VTC). I initially put it away in disgust and returned to it months later when I was in a rut. I adapted to it and the rest is history. That said, I have remained a flavor/satisfaction chaser; not a cloud enthusiast. And I do still enjoy a 6mg juice occasionally, so I feel your pain.

The FDA can kiss my ass. They will never know the reason for the flavors I order.

Andria

 

[Paratech]

Smoked for 26 years.
Not smoked since 2011.
But I recall trying a few times to DL a cigarette.
Never went over well and I have no idea why I was trying but it also wasn't the only dumb thing I ever tried.
I started DL with the Kangertech T2 clearomizer.
Sure, it required a little modification but that's the part that made it all fun.

 

[Synphul]

I agree it would be nice if there were more mtl options and if the ex smokers weren't completely forgotten. The market rarely cares about much more than profits though sadly and if something becomes more popular for whatever reason they go where the crowds flock.

I'm sure pipe smokers felt much the same way, it used to be a popular thing. Somewhere along the line it became focused on cigarettes, often times pipe smokers don't smoke cigs. Not sure about now but you used to be able to go into any gas station, mini mart, drugstore or grocery store and pick up a pack of smokes. If you smoked a pipe, good luck with that. Those folks had to do some searching to find places that carried pipes and pipe tobacco.

 

[Nancy_Bout]

I agree w you-
I started at 18 others at 24
6 isn't a good starting point for most- just saying.
Unless u sub OHM or drip


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AndriaD]

It depends on the degree of nic tolerance, pre-vaping -- I started with an eRoll, and anything stronger than 6mg made me sick as a goat. Light smokers, or those who've smoked ultra-lights for a long time, may not need a lot of nic at all, no matter what kind of vape gear they're using.

Andria

 

[Rossum]

It depends on the degree of nic tolerance, pre-vaping -- I started with an eRoll, and anything stronger than 6mg made me sick as a goat. Light smokers, or those who've smoked ultra-lights for a long time, may not need a lot of nic at all, no matter what kind of vape gear they're using.

Operative word: "May". I smoked lights and ultra-lights for decades. My last brand was Camel Turkish Silver. 18 worked mostly OK for me, but there were times when having some 24 handy really helped kill a craving. At one point, I tried dropping to 12 and found it unsatisfactory. So I mixed the newly purchased 12 with some 18 that I still had to get 15 and that's where I've been ever since.

When I started vaping in late 2013, the commonly available strengths were 0, 6, 12, 18, and 24. Nobody offered 3 or 1.5. But of course, that was before the DL cloud chasing trend took hold, and a DNA-20s were considered high-powered.

Obviously, gear has improved since then, but still believe that MOST people who are starting out with MTL gear to get off cigs will need more than 6 to succeed.

 

[AndriaD]

Operative word: "May". I smoked lights and ultra-lights for decades. My last brand was Camel Turkish Silver. 18 worked mostly OK for me, but there were times when having some 24 handy really helped kill a craving. At one point, I tried dropping to 12 and found it unsatisfactory. So I mixed the newly purchased 12 with some 18 that I still had to get 15 and that's where I've been ever since.

When I started vaping in late 2013, the commonly available strengths were 0, 6, 12, 18, and 24. Nobody offered 3 or 1.5. But of course, that was before the DL cloud chasing trend took hold, and a DNA-20s were considered high-powered.

Obviously, gear has improved since then, but still believe that MOST people who are starting out with MTL gear to get off cigs will need more than 6 to succeed.

That does seem to be the usual case. No idea why my nic tolerance was so low, except that I smoked ultra-lights for 20 yrs, and I may have some degree of liver impairment from my years of active alcoholism, so was unable to detox any higher strengths of nic without extreme nausea. I did need WTA though, which suggests that my addiction was more about the minor alkaloids/MAOIs (and the behavior, of course) than the nicotine.

Andria