Who else does this piss off

[Scuba-Matt]

I saw this pictured on a thread on FB
This is the kind of stuff vendors shouldn't be doing. labels that look to be marketing to kids.
This also tells me the vendor is in it for the quick buck and not the long haul.
It doesn't take a lot of imagination to steal another company's successful marketing graphic design and trademark.
I'm sure the e-liquid has just as little thought put into it.

Please don't purchase from vendors that are this irresponsible.

 

[BigNasty]

Considering they named their company after stupid lazy leet speak?
Not a piss of but would never give them money in any fashion let alone trust where they are mixing.

 

[Dr3d]

Honestly? Maybe it is my marketing education, but ... looks like effective ad copy to me. From the outset, I have a sense of the flavor profile they are claiming. They haven't called it Lifesavers Gummies Flavor which would likely infringe on a trademark or two. My concerns if I was considering a purchase ... 1) gummie is not desirable on my coils, and 2) how can they fit all 5 flavors of lifesavers gummies into a single, unpartitioned bottle of juice?

I understand concerns about the appearance of marketing to kids; however I dismiss these concerns 'cause I will bet that the nubzvapor.com site is going to require a claim of 18+ at the website. It wouldn't hurt to add that information to the ad copy. But as far a stealing successful marketing design graphics/trademarks being a concern. It isn't. Nubzvapor will likely never have the amount of capital it takes to make their own trademark of value, and they likely won't exist long enough to develop the brand equity the Lifesavers brand commands.

 

[Teresa P]

Age verification on websites is a joke. A 12-year-old is sitting at the computer and the age verification pop-up asks if they're 18+.....12-year-old says "Sure I am!" and clicks away and orders what he chooses on grandma's credit card.....that works.

 

[Dr3d]

Age verification on websites is a joke. A 12-year-old is sitting at the computer and the age verification pop-up asks if they're 18+.....12-year-old says "Sure I am!" and clicks away and orders what he chooses on grandma's credit card.....that works.

I don't disagree. But, I will posit that marking something Adults Only can actually make it more attractive than touting a candy flavoring does. I could for example do the same magic with a popular Dos Equis advertisement for a beer flavored ejuice. I posit that it would be more popular among the teen and preteen "pre-market" segment than the Lifesaver Gummies flavored juice.

 

[Teresa P]

The fact remains that kids are the same now as they have always been. They wanna do anything they're told not to do - drinking, vaping, drugs, sex, you name it. I did all that as a kid. And more. All anyone had to say was "No" or "You aren't old enough" and it was on my to-do list. Fortunately my folks had a tight reign on me and my kid brother, so it wasn't until after the age of 18 that we became total screw-ups. I'm grateful for the strict upbringing now, but kids this day and age don't have that anymore. Someone has to be able to stop them, even when their parents won't or don't care to.

 

[Dr3d]

The fact remains that kids are the same now as they have always been. They wanna do anything they're told not to do - drinking, vaping, drugs, sex, you name it. I did all that as a kid. And more. All anyone had to say was "No" or "You aren't old enough" and it was on my to-do list. Fortunately my folks had a tight reign on me and my kid brother, so it wasn't until after the age of 18 that we became total screw-ups. I'm grateful for the strict upbringing now, but kids this day and age don't have that anymore. Someone has to be able to stop them, even when their parents won't or don't care to.

I agree with you all the way up to that last sentence. I'm a self aware, practicing asshole. Kids problems are their parents' issues and I'm going to have as many wailing, foot stomping temper tantrums as required to make that clear (I hope you see what I did there).

 

[Breazy_Com]

A lot of the way kids are these days is directly due to the parents. I'm guilty of it myself with my son. I handed him everything and didn't teach him the meaning of the word no and how to earn stuff. But kids don't come with manuals lol. A lot of parents try to live through their kids and give them things that they wanted and couldn't have as a kid. There was a reason our parents were strict .... It was called good parenting! Our generation thought we were going to be the "Cool" parents. Boy were we wrong! It's really hard to tell a kid no but it's something you learn the hard way. As far as vaping goes and labeling, That's just marketing and advertisement. Been going on ever since people started selling stuff. I think it's more aimed at us than kids. Most of us are big kids and relate to things we knew of as kids. Kids shouldn't be in vape stores and as far as online... the only way that can be stopped IS by good parenting. But again most of us let them do what they want because we are afraid of the confrontation it will cause. I learned the hard way and hopefully my son is starting to straighten out. Life is a series of learning experiences. Unfortunately there are those who don't learn and end up down the wrong path in life. Boy do I sound like a parent now lol

 

[Scuba-Matt]

@dred They aren't calling them lifesavers, They are using a lifesavers package in the ad along with the same color scheme and font.
The point is this is the stuff the FDA is looking for to fuel the fire against vaping.

 

[martinelias]

I dont see it as marketing to kids. Candy and colors doesnt equal an infantile product, unless if humans go color blind and lose taste buds when they mature and i happen to be a freak of nature that can still see and taste shit. If thats the case, disreguard.

 

[mstave]

I dont see it as marketing to kids. Candy and colors doesnt equal an infantile product, unless if humans go color blind and lose taste buds when they mature and i happen to be a freak of nature that can still see and taste shit. If thats the case, disreguard.

The point is not what you and I think, we are vapors. The point is what the Big Tobacco Cos and the states that are losing money through loss of smoking revenue can persuade a non-vaping public is worrisome and should be prohibited - a broad brush that could wipe out most flavors. Marketing like this is stupid, if the view is medium or long term. Of course , if they are in it for a short term "rip and run" - why should they care?

 

[outwest]

Keeping mind the fact that government officials, big tobacco, American Heart Association, etc. are saying things like, having names such as 'sour apple candy flavor' is marketing to kids, yeah it's a big deal and the eliquid company should know better. When you're fighting an enemy that's bigger than you and has more weapons in their arsenal (in this case, the power to simply decreed this stuff illegal), you don't add fuel to the fire.

 

[Dr3d]

@Scuba-Matt, @mstave & @outwest to name a few ... realize that by your logic we should be prepared to self police the juice industry and simply stop making juice that tastes good. This evil-candy-flavoring-is-for-kids group has already taken cameras into vape shops self policed to serve 18+ customers and jumped up and down throwing tantrums cause bottles were pretty and juice tastes good. If the law is amended to restrict sales to 18+ vendors will risk their livelihood if they sell to minors.

So, I only worry about damage being done by two groups. The first is populated by the scum that sell regardless of age 'cause there is no law against it in many places. The second is populated by parents and other "adults" so eager to be their child's best friend that they make the buys for their kids.

IMO, as vapers, our best argument is that the markets should be closed to children. And, that the appeal to children is not candy flavoring available legally in candy products; rather the appeal is the prohibition.

 

[FlavoVape]

It doesn't bother me. I know more adults ...myself included...that love gummies. I have an 8 year old daughter and I'm more worried about the commercials for I am a spammer ban me distinction pills.

 

[martinelias]

The point is not what you and I think, we are vapors. The point is what the Big Tobacco Cos and the states that are losing money through loss of smoking revenue can persuade a non-vaping public is worrisome and should be prohibited - a broad brush that could wipe out most flavors. Marketing like this is stupid, if the view is medium or long term. Of course , if they are in it for a short term "rip and run" - why should they care?

Its because they think that, that resistance is futile.
Lets say we cave, we force companies to switch out labeling by not buying, what next? Give up certain names and reduce juice to maker and model numbers? Give up flavors altogether? Limit nic content?
Youll find yourself jumping through a series of hoops like a circus animal only to realize afyer its all said and done that hey we are still caged and they will do whatever they want. Public image means shit everything has been already decided and without medical research or our wellbeing involved in the thought process.
Just a lot of checks and signatures of people we dont even know. We are fighting for scraps on the table.
So, that being said, my mindset is enjoy what we have while we have it and when laws start coming into place, decide what side of the line you want to live on.
Stop kneeling. Fuck them. Theyre already fucking us.

 

[Mike H.]

I STILL like fruity pebbles and froot loops and capn crunch and lucky charm cereals and even more as an adult...still like cotton candy and candy bars and gummy bears and charm pops...Adults never really grow out of things they like to eat as a kid...I doubt the labels on the juice above was thought out to market 10yr old kids but more so the adult kids.

Unfortunately Some dont see it that way which clearly shows they are reaching for all they can to kill something they didnt have a hand in creating from the start...The government doesnt want generations to live longer...they WANT people to doe from cancer and aids and anything else that kills off the population...Do you think Mcdonalds is in business for our health...hell no...Government knows they create world wide obesity and diseases that go along with it on purpose...I can go on and on about who is helping government kill us but thats a different topic in full...Government is fighting this hard not because they give 2 shits about your kids or you but they dont want people living an average of 80 or 90 years instead of 40 to 60yrs from smoking.

 

[RobbieR]

I fully agree with the OP. IMHO the vaping industry is destroying itself with this type of marketing.
This bottle of juice is the perfect ammunition Anti Vapor Law Makers are looking for.

New "E-Cigarette" regulations just got passed in Ontario Canada where I live (essentially vaping will be treated just like smoking tobacco in my province) One of the big things the government was concerned with is how attractive vaping is to Teens & Kids. How can you argue that vaping is a "Quit Smoking Aid" and not attractive to teens when companies are marketing E-Juice with candy on the bottles?

 

[Scuba-Matt]

@dred you have totally missed the point of this thread. I'm not here to argue, I'm pointing out the obvious. I never said anything against flavors, Don't insinuate bullshit like that, The point is about responsable e-liquid manufactures labeling practices. The FDA's number one issue with the industry is marking to kids. Want some insight? listen to this https://soundcloud.com/soundcloud.com%2Fvp-live%2Fare-e-liquid-manufacturers-marketing-to-children-the-fda-certainly-thinks-so-and-heres-why

 

[f1r3b1rd]

I wonder if if its any good. the green ones are my favorite.


-personally im a fan of Darwinism and parents practicing active parenting and teaching kids personal responsibility.

Would I market something that way? No.
Do i have a problem if someone does?
No, not if the product is being accurately represented and they have childproof caps.
Im also a dan of that whole first amendment thing.

 

[Dr3d]

@dred you have totally missed the point of this thread. I'm not here to argue, I'm pointing out the obvious. I never said anything against flavors, Don't insinuate bullshit like that, The point is about responsable e-liquid manufactures labeling practices. The FDA's number one issue with the industry is marking to kids. Want some insight? listen to this https://soundcloud.com/soundcloud.com%2Fvp-live%2Fare-e-liquid-manufacturers-marketing-to-children-the-fda-certainly-thinks-so-and-heres-why

I'm reposting the following for you. This time I have underlined the unbullshitable content for your convenience.

@Scuba-Matt, @mstave & @outwest to name a few ... realize that by your logic we should be prepared to self police the juice industry and simply stop making juice that tastes good. This evil-candy-flavoring-is-for-kids group has already taken cameras into vape shops self policed to serve 18+ customers and jumped up and down throwing tantrums cause bottles were pretty and juice tastes good. If the law is amended to restrict sales to 18+ vendors will risk their livelihood if they sell to minors.

So, I only worry about damage being done by two groups. The first is populated by the scum that sell regardless of age 'cause there is no law against it in many places. The second is populated by parents and other "adults" so eager to be their child's best friend that they make the buys for their kids.

IMO, as vapers, our best argument is that the markets should be closed to children. And, that the appeal to children is not candy flavoring available legally in candy products; rather the appeal is the prohibition.

@Scuba-Matt marketing to children was presented into regulation discussion as a straw man. I am suggesting it is an irrelevant tactic which was put forward specifically to consume your concern and effort. Here's a brief explanation of this classic fallacy of logic and argument: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man. My apologies for invoking wikepedia. The FDA does not and will not have power to regulate the flavoring, packaging, or content of marketing. Precedent will limit their control of actual marketing to access to media channels. It is entirely conceivable that marketing on Television, Radio, Newspaper and/or Magazines will be banned. Packaging can be impacted by requiring warnings/labels which restrict available real estate.

Regarding the two plus hours of audio. I will need you to give me a smaller range of time on the small chance Dimitri has something relevant to say regarding what the FDA is ACTUALLY DOING.

 

[Scuba-Matt]

You can start listening at the 35 minute mark

 

[Dr3d]

You can start listening at the 35 minute mark

I listened to better than 25 minutes from that point. What I understand is that the FDA, in their mission as a subjugate of the Department of Health and Human Services posits that their primary concern is marketing to children. What I missed in the discussion is a discussion of precedent based on historical actions. As a group, we are more fragmented and therefore more vulnerable than big tobacco; however, in the case of eliquid containing nicotine, we have precedent. My concern is our general lack of a well funded voice which will challenge the FDA. I'm disturbed to hear about Dimitri et. al. sitting down with the FDA and presuming to represent the industry. I would be much more comfortable with CASAA sitting at the table and telling Dimitri et. al. about the results.

From the radio call-in you posted, the guy that called in at 1:12 gets it and does a reasonable job of voicing a position closer to a position I feel is good for the industry.

 

[nabibrian]

Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhh

 

[Drone]

I can see the argument both ways here. And TBH, I just really don't care any more. I can certainly see why an ejuice manufacturer would want to have a title and picture reflect what the juice tastes like. I really dislike when a juice has a name like Drink of the Gods and then you have to read a description just to try and understand what the flavor profile might be. It just gets tedious. It makes sense from a marketing standpoint to make it easy to understand by both the picture and the juice name exactly what to expect from the flavor. But I also understand that some might consider it marketing to underage vapors. But is it really? Or is it just getting the point across that this juice tastes like Captain Crunch or Skittles or whatever.

I guess there is no right answer here. But it does seem like many believe that we need to bow to our overlords at the FDA and hope this concession is enough to appease them. But it won't appease them. It will just be the first of many concessions to make so we can be allowed to vape in a least some capacity in the future.

But whatever, I'm over it, and if most think we need to give in to this and other points of contention... then that's fine and do what you want.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

But it does seem like many believe that we need to bow to our overlords at the FDA and hope this concession is enough to appease them. But it won't appease them. It will just be the first of many concessions to make so we can be allowed to vape in a least some capacity in the future.

^^^^best line thus far!!!
My first thought was conceding a small portion of Europe to Hitler didn't work out so well.

 

[Scuba-Matt]

http://vapeaboutit.com/the-hammer-falls-on-trademark-infringement/

 

[wayne.walkerr]

Yeah, some labels I have seen absolutely need to go. That lifesavers one, the nesquik one with the rabbit, pretty much any vendor using known childrens mascots in their marketing need to change immediately. I understand that smoking isn't cool anymore, and vaping is, so obviously adolescents are going to want to vape no matter what the labels look like. But this shit is just a disgrace. No room for error in this industry, and these labels are a massive fuck up.