WTF is up with these rogue cops??

[Time]

I really should not get involved in this as my opinion won't be popular based on the comments in thread.

I am retired Law Enforcement (local, state, or federal is not really important) so away I go dipping my toes into the boiling hot water against my better judgement..

Sure there are bad people in Law Enforcement at all levels but they are few and far in-between. Most are hard working and only want to do their job and go home at the end of the day.

Every profession has bad apples. Accountants, judges, politicians, doctors, lawyers, ect, ect, ect. Name a profession and there are people who should not be doing what they are doing. In the instance of Law Enforcement it's magnified, and rightfully so because they are carrying a weapon and are authorized to use deadly force.

The incidents in the news recently are over blown in my opinion.

The incident in Ferguson where the city was burned to ground was because ONE person said the suspect had his hands in the air. All the protests and city torching were over ONE person telling what was later proven to be a lie. From what I know of that situation, the officer was more than justified in the shooting.

The incident in Cleveland. Reports from citizens were there was a person with a gun. I doubt many, if anyone at all, could tell the difference between a real gun and the toy guns that are out there now. If what you think is a real gun is pointed at you, you have 2 choices. 1) Save your life or 2) Die. Which would you choose? Are you willing to roll the dice that it's a fake gun? By the time you realize it was not you are either already dead or on the ground bleeding to death.

The incident in Baltimore. Something went wrong but what? Have you ever watched that TV show COPS? Yes it's a dumb show BUT how many times have you seen a person thrusting, kicking, banging their head after they are placed inside of a police car?

Now the incident where I agree was 100% wrong was where the officer shot the person in the back as he was running away. From what I can tell, that person had nothing in their hands and was just trying to get away.

That's my, what's sure to be unpopular, two cents.

There's nothing wrong with your two cents. It seems to me that LE, and those that defend them, are missing the big picture.

There has to be a reason in discussions like this that your viewpoint is unpopular. Nobody was born with the idea that LEO's are inherently bad people to be avoided. Almost to a person, we were all taught in school, church and/or home that LE was inherently good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,unless we ourselves were bad. The exception being kids being raised in criminal households, of course. So, why the shift in our perception now that we are adults? Certainly we are not all criminals that want to get rid of law enforcers. The only thing that could have changed for the majority of people is their experience with law enforcement.

Today, mostly due to the drug war, most people are now treated as if they are guilty of a crime. You don't get pulled over for speeding and simply given a ticket for it. You are interrogated. "Where have you been? Where are you going? Do you have drugs in the car? Do you have anything to hide? So, you don't mind if I search?" And that's just in the good neiborhood. Get pulled over driving a piece of shit car. The tone of the stop is much different and in many cases the reason for the stop is made up.

For anyone with an ounce of self respect, todays police tactics of assumption of some sort of guilt grates on them. It's demeaning. The attitude of many, if not most, cops that they project is simply, 'to bad, I'm a cop and you have to take it'. The threats and actions of retaliation are real if you resist being demeaned. How the hell do people get arrested for resisting arrest when they have not been charged with anything else? You can't be resisting arrest when you were not under arrest for something else in the first place. It's nothing but intimidation and retaliation for a person to be charged with nothing but resisting arrest. It's a charge for being uncooperative and/or belligerent.

People latching on to these high profile cases should not be a surprise. There is no talk about the time/s they were treated poorly, accused and/or threatened in their own experience with LE except with friends/family. Normal, everyday people tell their experiences to each other. These high profile cases give people the chance to speak on a much much larger scale. The Ferguson cop didn't do anything wrong. But, it gave people a chance for retribution for their own shitty experience with a cop on a power trip. Unless LE enforcement changes, these things will continue. People are powerless to do anything about the pricks that constantly pulls them over because they drive a shit car. When they get the chance to have their say in these high profile cases they are going to take the opportunity to be heard where they did not have the opportunity in their own personal situation.

 

[raqball]

Then there is this:

a) My house was broken into. The police are lazy who never do anything!
b) My car was stolen and the police did nothing about it.

So if the police are proactive trying to prevent crime they are a-holes who are only harassing others. If they are not proactive then they are lazy, donut eating, do nothings..

It does not work both ways...

Quick scenario: You are a police officer who works in an area that's had 14 car burglaries in the last 2 nights. You see a car driving without headlights at 2am. You stop them for that. You'd be incompetent and doing the residents of that area a disservice if you didn't ask for permission to look in the car..

Try doing the job for a few weeks. Many larger local departments have citizen academy's and ride along programs.

Yes there are bad police officers, DEA agents, FBI agents, State Troopers, ect and yes they need to be ran out of the job but they are in the extreme minority in my opinion..

 

[Time]

So, given the choice between criticism of police not catching people and police harassing people, LE chose the harassment route.

How's that working out? Rhetorical question, of course. We see how it's working out.

I've never seen a city burn, large scale protests or pages of forum posts over "The police didn't catch the guy that stole my car."

When the population doesn't like you anymore, how much good do you think you'll accomplish?

 

[raqball]

In what I described above, I don't consider that to be harassment, I consider it them doing their job!

You be happy living where the police only respond to past crimes? I wonder how that would turn out?

To each their own I suppose..

At any rate, the water is to hot in here for my toes so peace owt!

 

[Time]

Riots, mass protests and threads like this.

Your probably right. Has nothing to do with the police, their tactics and the way they treat everybody. Mass hallucinations.

Believe what you will. The events and public perception tell a different story. I have no doubt that LE won't change so we'll see where it goes. I predict more of the same.

 

[raqball]

I'll give this one more reply then it's off my thread watch list.

Professional provokers as they are called and irresponsible media reporting.. Enough said.

All the people who walked around for miles holding 'hands up don't shoot' signs should feel used. The professional provokers and the irresponsible media reporting that lured them into doing it were later proven to be false! They were used for an agenda and they were lied to --> plain and simple.

Yes I'd be outraged if an officer shot someone surrendering with their hands in air but I'm also reasonable enough to wait for the facts to come out BEFORE I react..

Why are there not mass protests and riots over gang violence? In many cities there are drive-by shootings every night. Maybe 4 or 5 a night. In some instances innocent people and children are killed. Where is the outrage over that? Oh wait there is ---> The police are lazy and are doing nothing to stop it!

I can go on and on but why bother?

So with that I digress as my toes are getting blistered from the hot water.

 

[Time]

Nobody in this thread that I know of nor anyone in this area of of the country were provoking anything in Ferguson or Baltimore. Yet, the prevailing opinion is anti-police.

Like I said, we'll see. I don't believe these opinions are coming out due to a news story or two. I think people have a pre conception brought on by their own experience of the police and the news stories just happen to fit.

It's not one bad cop that keeps pulling me over in my piece of shit truck and harassing me. It's just police. Different ones. I still have never been pulled over in my nice shiny truck in the 9 years I've owned it. Surprise, I don't think much of police any more. Like I got nothing better to do than sit on the side of the road so those pricks can be "proactive".

 

[Pauly Walnuts]

I don't blame cops for bad policy or intrusive practices. I blame the elected officials who make the policies and protect the interests of the the rich.
The police are the foot soldiers of the politicians. Do we blame soldiers in Iraq for a bullshit war? No. We blame the people responsible for sending them there. So likewise, we can't blame individual cops for a bullshit drug war or for their overreach of power, as their livelihoods depend on following orders, regardless the cost.
I pity the brainwashed, but I don't condemn them.

 

[jack]

Are there bad cops ? Of course there are , and they should be kicked out . But who controls the Police Dept . in most cities ? The Mayor . Perfect example would be Baltimore . Last 5 Mayors
one was white . Past States Attorneys , one black lady held it from 1995 to 2011. These elected officials don't do their job and want an easy out ,so it's someone else 's fault . These are the same people who went thru 1.8 billion dollars of extra money in 5 years and have nothing to show for it . Is it about solving the problem and holding those responsible accountable or about pointing the finger and not being responsible .? We as the public , have to start voting for the right people ,and stop putting in office showboaters , who do nothing . To often today if you get in trouble it is the cops fault , or the lawyers fault . If you get sick ,do you blame the doctor ?........... Just my take on a very big problem .

 

[Oberon75]

Nobody in this thread that I know of nor anyone in this area of of the country were provoking anything in Ferguson or Baltimore. Yet, the prevailing opinion is anti-police.

Like I said, we'll see. I don't believe these opinions are coming out due to a news story or two. I think people have a pre conception brought on by their own experience of the police and the news stories just happen to fit.

It's not one bad cop that keeps pulling me over in my piece of shit truck and harassing me. It's just police. Different ones. I still have never been pulled over in my nice shiny truck in the 9 years I've owned it. Surprise, I don't think much of police any more. Like I got nothing better to do than sit on the side of the road so those pricks can be "proactive".

But how many times does somebody in that piece of shit truck have drugs or a warrant? I highly doubt that the police would continuously hassle a certain class of people if they kept coming up empty.

And if you remember these mass protests after Ferguson, a lot of these people laying down in the middle of the malls were privileged millennials posting hashtags on Facebook and Twitter from their iPhones.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[Time]

But how many times does somebody in that piece of shit truck have drugs or a warrant? I highly doubt that the police would continuously hassle a certain class of people if they kept coming up empty.

And if you remember these mass protests after Ferguson, a lot of these people laying down in the middle of the malls were privileged millennials posting hashtags on Facebook and Twitter from their iPhones.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

Who the hell cares how many have drugs or warrants? You think I should be harassed because other people driving shit trucks have drugs? If Your avatar looks like a dude I knew that turned out to be a child molester, maybe the cops should pull you over and and ask you if you've diddled any young boys lately. You'd be fine with that, wouldn't you, since you do kinda fit the profile as far as appearances go?

It's all fine and dandy until you're the one being harassed. See how that works?

What kinda fucked up country did this one turn into where people think it's all cool for police to harass your ass just because you're not driving a fucking new car? Russia? Nazi Germany?

LOL. Apparently the cure for police harassment, according to some, is a fucking car payment.

 

[Oberon75]

Who the hell cares how many have drugs or warrants? You think I should be harassed because other people driving shit trucks have drugs? Your avatar looks like a dude I knew that turned out to be a child molester. Maybe the cops should pull you over and and ask you if you've diddled any young boys lately. You'd be fine with that, wouldn't you, since you do kinda fit the profile as far as appearances go?

It's all fine and dandy until you're the one being harassed. See how that works?

What kinda fucked up country did this one turn into where people think it's all cool for police to harass your ass just because you're not driving a fucking new car? Russia? Nazi Germany?

LOL. Apparently the cure for police harassment, according to some, is a fucking car payment.

I had my share of police harassment when I was younger but I still don't think it takes away from the police coming up with 7's the majority of the time they roll the dice. Because just pulling you over to harass you would be a waste of time. If you keep crapping out, you quit rolling the dice.

Now I'm going to tell you a little story about the city I used to live in called Harper Woods, Michigan. It was a quiet, peaceful neighborhood where you would want to raise a family. It borders Detroit though so if you were driving through there from the Detroit ghetto, chances are. You were getting pulled over.

About 10 years ago, Mitch Albom of the Detroit Free Press did a huge story about profiling in the city. There was a lot of media driven public outrage and a crackdown.

Since then, the neighborhood has gone to complete shit. All the people who couldn't drive down the street anymore, moved right in. I've had five cars stolen, my son's bikes, etc. My neighbor was robbed at 8AM when they stormed in her home with assault weapons. The owner of our local diner was murdered walking to his car last year and the bar that my parents and grandparents frequented has closed due to multiple shootings. One of the best private schools in the state was there and closed as well after this Shit happened. After the school closed, they filmed the concentration camp scene from Red Dawn there because it was a nice looking abandoned school.

I've since moved my family away from that house and bankrupted it. The funny thing is, the bank didn't even want it and just handed it over. So now I'm renting elsewhere while I wait for the city to take it to delinquent taxes. I can't even sell it because they stripped the plumbing, electrical and hot water heater. Wanna buy it? Real cheap.

Meanwhile another neighboring city which used to share our school and rec facilities, Grosse Pointe Woods is still exactly as the quiet Little League town of Harper Woods was a decade ago. Why? Because they still profile which keeps Detroit from swallowing them up as well.

So yea. If my current neighborhood became over run with child molesters, you best believe I would want the police to stop and question anyone who fit the description.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[Pauly Walnuts]

For anyone who is interested in the philosophy behind our disdain of the legal system, this video can shed some light on things.
Its not comprehensive, but it has many solid points to stand on. If you have the time, its well worth watching.

 

[Time]

You left a bunch of the story out. Your little town died because Detriot and it's suburbs went bankrupt. No jobs. There's been lots of talk, news and analysis about Detroit and I have talked with many people from Michigan. Your account is the very first that I have heard of blaming a lack of police profiling. The rabble moved in because of all the abandoned homes people couldn't and didn't pay for was prime picking. New York's stop and frisk policy(police profiling) was found to be illegal and New York has not fallen by the wayside as Detroit has.

I hope you have kids. Teach them that being victims to police abuse of power is just part of living in a "civilized" society. See how that works out for you and them. Ask them what they think of police if/when they are old enough to have personal experience and the stories from their friends and family.

My town is good old fashioned white america. No bankrupt big city suburb. The police tactics are pissing people off from the high school student to 70 year old ladies. Nobody, and I mean nobody, likes being treated like a criminal for no reason.

 

[Pauly Walnuts]

You left a bunch of the story out. Your little town died because Detriot and it's suburbs went bankrupt. No jobs. There's been lots of talk, news and analysis about Detroit and I have talked with many people from Michigan. Your account is the very first that I have heard of blaming a lack of police profiling. The rabble moved in because of all the abandoned homes people couldn't and didn't pay for was prime picking. New York's stop and frisk policy(police profiling) was found to be illegal and New York has not fallen by the wayside as Detroit has.

I hope you have kids. Teach them that being victims to police abuse of power is just part of living in a "civilized" society. See how that works out for you and them. Ask them what they think of police if/when they are old enough to have personal experience and the stories from their friends and family.

My town is good old fashioned white america. No bankrupt big city suburb. The police tactics are pissing people off from the high school student to 70 year old ladies. Nobody, and I mean nobody, likes being treated like a criminal for no reason.

You are absolutely, 100% correct. Economic depression is the main problem in detroit, not lack of cops. There are no cops there because there is nothing of value to protect. Areas where there are things of value, there is plenty of local revenue to pay for police departments. Its an incredibly common misconception that the police are meant to protect the people. They are meant to protect govt assets, manufacture revenue, and enforce laws. If protecting people was their job, they would fight against the lawmakers who's mandates ruin so many americans lives. The only people they are obligated to protect is themselves.

But like Ive said before, its not the individual officers fault. The vast majority of them are undereducated and purposefully not taught to understand why most laws (victimless, non violent, non sexual) are unjust. They are never taught that these laws were not made for the benefit of the society, but for the interests of 'big money' that rules over our political system. Most citizens dont understand this either, but since its not a part of the 'program', the television isnt going to tell them.

 

[raqball]

The vast majority of them are undereducated and purposefully not taught to understand why most laws (victimless, non violent, non sexual) are unjust.

I know I said I was owt of this thread but I can't let this go unanswered..

This absolutely 500% false!

Federal Law Enforcement requires a 4-year degree.. Most state and local Law Enforcement jobs don't require it, but if you do not have at least an associates degree you will never get hired.. There are exceptions at the state and local level. If you fall into one of the race or gender categories that they are trying to gain numbers in you can get hired with a HS diploma. If you don't fit into one of them then you'd better have a degree or forget about it! At the federal level, there is no exception, a bachelors degree is a rock solid requirement!

Just about every Law Enforcement agency in the US has training standards to keep your certification. Some require 40 hours of yearly training, some 60 hours ect.. To remain certified for another year the officer must complete the required number of hours. Training includes legal updates, defense tactics, policy, firearms, defensive driving ect... Legal and law updates are generally a very large chunk of this required yearly training..

If Your avatar looks like a dude I knew that turned out to be a child molester, maybe the cops should pull you over and and ask you if you've diddled any young boys lately. You'd be fine with that, wouldn't you, since you do kinda fit the profile as far as appearances go?

If I matched the description of a child molester and I was circling a school or parked in front of it, you bet I'd hope an officer would stop me.. Once the reason for them stopping me was explained I'd probably thank him or her for doing so..

Anywho, now it's back to your regularly scheduled programming...

 

[Oberon75]

You left a bunch of the story out. Your little town died because Detriot and it's suburbs went bankrupt. No jobs. There's been lots of talk, news and analysis about Detroit and I have talked with many people from Michigan. Your account is the very first that I have heard of blaming a lack of police profiling. The rabble moved in because of all the abandoned homes people couldn't and didn't pay for was prime picking. New York's stop and frisk policy(police profiling) was found to be illegal and New York has not fallen by the wayside as Detroit has.

I hope you have kids. Teach them that being victims to police abuse of power is just part of living in a "civilized" society. See how that works out for you and them. Ask them what they think of police if/when they are old enough to have personal experience and the stories from their friends and family.

My town is good old fashioned white america. No bankrupt big city suburb. The police tactics are pissing people off from the high school student to 70 year old ladies. Nobody, and I mean nobody, likes being treated like a criminal for no reason.

Except for the fact that I now only live three miles away and the other city I mentioned which is still very much nice is on the exact same border. Harper Woods didn't go bankrupt. Detroit went bankrupt. Harper Woods had their borders secure until they became the center of a media driven profiling scandal. Crime started to rise and everyone moved. Funny how everybody else has jobs, just a mile away in Grosse Pointe Woods. Meanwhile Grosse Pointe Farms and Grosse Pointe Shores are two of the wealthier cities in the country. They border right next to Detroit.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[jack]

You left a bunch of the story out. Your little town died because Detriot and it's suburbs went bankrupt. No jobs. There's been lots of talk, news and analysis about Detroit and I have talked with many people from Michigan. Your account is the very first that I have heard of blaming a lack of police profiling. The rabble moved in because of all the abandoned homes people couldn't and didn't pay for was prime picking. New York's stop and frisk policy(police profiling) was found to be illegal and New York has not fallen by the wayside as Detroit has.

I hope you have kids. Teach them that being victims to police abuse of power is just part of living in a "civilized" society. See how that works out for you and them. Ask them what they think of police if/when they are old enough to have personal experience and the stories from their friends and family.

My town is good old fashioned white america. No bankrupt big city suburb. The police tactics are pissing people off from the high school student to 70 year old ladies. Nobody, and I mean nobody, likes being treated like a criminal for no reason.

It's his story dude , I don't think he needs a translator . You correct his story LMAO . "GOOD OLD FASHIONED WHITE AMERICA " Now we know where your head is at . And the sun never shines on it !

 

[Time]

It's his story dude , I don't think he needs a translator . You correct his story LMAO . "GOOD OLD FASHIONED WHITE AMERICA " Now we know where your head is at . And the sun never shines on it !

And it's just that, a story. The real story of Detroit and it's suburbs is very, very well documented. You should try reading some time.

Are you trying to insinuate I'm racist? It's just a simple fact that my town has few minorities and is mostly middle class white folk that are getting fed up with current police tactics. It's not Ferguson, Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore or any other high crime city. There are no rabble close by to move in. In other words, it's not just black people in poor neiborhoods getting tired of fucked up police profiling, white middle class people are getting tired of it too, dumbass.

 

[Time]

Except for the fact that I now only live three miles away and the other city I mentioned which is still very much nice is on the exact same border. Harper Woods didn't go bankrupt. Detroit went bankrupt. Harper Woods had their borders secure until they became the center of a media driven profiling scandal. Crime started to rise and everyone moved. Funny how everybody else has jobs, just a mile away in Grosse Pointe Woods. Meanwhile Grosse Pointe Farms and Grosse Pointe Shores are two of the wealthier cities in the country. They border right next to Detroit.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

*sigh*

Of all the cities you mentioned, Harper Woods had the lowest median income. Harper Woods has no industry. That means nearly everyone worked in or around Detroit with Detroit being the hardest hit city during this last big recession. The lower income brackets being hit much harder than those in the higher median income. Harper Woods had more foreclosures due to lost employment.

From the 2000 census;

Harper Woods: The median income for a household in the city was $46,769, and the median income for a family was $55,065.
Gross Pointe Woods: The median income for a household in the city was $78,558, and the median income for a family was $89,086
Grosse Pointe Farms: The median household income was $100,153, and the median family income was $109,264.
Grosse Pointe Shore: The median income for a household in the village was $113,882, and the median income for a family was $139,680.

Higher crime directly correlates with hard times. But, can we see that in the data for Harper Woods? You bet we can.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Harper-Woods-Michigan.html

Notice the spike in 2006-2007-2008? Now compare that to Grosse Pointe Woods.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Grosse-Pointe-Woods-Michigan.html

The same spike is there in 2006-2007-2008 albiet at lower rates. But how can that be? Grosse Pointe Woods police, according to you, was still profiling. There should be no spike. Harper Woods already had a much higher crime rate than Grosse Pointe Woods. The only real difference between the two is the income level and the crime rate reflects that. The economic crisis decimated Harper Woods with it's low median income and already higher crime rate. Grosse Pointe Woods also saw a spike in crime but being higher income and already having a lower crime rate, was not as effected.

In short, The actual numbers conclude that the economic crisis had everything to do with it. If it had to do with the police profiling thing, Grosse Pointe Woods would not have shown the same spike in crime during the same time frame.

I love me some facts.

 

[Pauly Walnuts]

I know I said I was owt of this thread but I can't let this go unanswered..

This absolutely 500% false!

Federal Law Enforcement requires a 4-year degree.. Most state and local Law Enforcement jobs don't require it, but if you do not have at least an associates degree you will never get hired.. There are exceptions at the state and local level. If you fall into one of the race or gender categories that they are trying to gain numbers in you can get hired with a HS diploma. If you don't fit into one of them then you'd better have a degree or forget about it! At the federal level, there is no exception, a bachelors degree is a rock solid requirement!

Just about every Law Enforcement agency in the US has training standards to keep your certification. Some require 40 hours of yearly training, some 60 hours ect.. To remain certified for another year the officer must complete the required number of hours. Training includes legal updates, defense tactics, policy, firearms, defensive driving ect... Legal and law updates are generally a very large chunk of this required yearly training..



If I matched the description of a child molester and I was circling a school or parked in front of it, you bet I'd hope an officer would stop me.. Once the reason for them stopping me was explained I'd probably thank him or her for doing so..

Anywho, now it's back to your regularly scheduled programming...

You took that quote out of context.
This proves my argument:
"There are exceptions at the state and local level. If you fall into one of the race or gender categories that they are trying to gain numbers in you can get hired with a HS diploma. If you don't fit into one of them then you'd better have a degree or forget about it!"

In addition, what kid do you know that completes a 4 year degree and has any idea of the real world? Very few college graduates have any marketable skills, let alone a deep knowledge of the constitution, an understanding of cause and effect legal impacts on real people, or whos actually pulling their strings (who made the laws and why).
Im sure alot of these kids have a criminal justice degree. Thats just great, they have been indoctrinated to believe all laws are gods word, and all who disobey must be taken by force and punished.
I just dont believe that people get into this profession with a consice understanding of what they are doing and who they are actually doing it for. Let alone the fact that people with retail store manager's education, are given power over every citizen in their path.

Raqball, I know you dont agree with my point of view, since we are from very different worlds. But please dont think Im pointing anything directly at you, Im not writing a novel and I need to take broad strokes. I appreciate that youll comment and dont just get pissed off and walk away.

 

[pulsevape]

I love these sort of discussions,and there are points to be made on both sides.But what I never hear discussed is how barbaric our population is. how incrediblelly low our values have sunk..the unheard of acts of inhumanity that are perpetuated daily.We treat the cops like we treat our teachers...people that are supposed to wipe our social asses, to raise the childeren that we have abandoned, and abused....so many people have given all responsiblity over to the state.and it just doesn't work.....let's be real honest we wouldn't have most of the crime we have if people raised their own kids with love and appreciation. we have gang rapes in high schools,we have mexican drug cartels littering the landscape with beheadings,we have entire neighborhoods cannibalizing each other for easy drug money. and we tolerate it we accept as the norm.....yeah the cops are getting crazier, and so are we......but it's be refreshing to see people get as outraged over bad parenting and bad citizenship as the do bad policing...and we all need to clean up our acts.cops included.

 

[Pauly Walnuts]

http://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
this graph is not absolute evidence, but the violent crime rate is the lowest its been in a long time.
Just because you see more on your local news, doesnt mean it is increasing. It just means its being reported more often.
Violence is a big seller, the news companies know this.

 

[pulsevape]

http://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
this graph is not absolute evidence, but the violent crime rate is the lowest its been in a long time.
Just because you see more on your local news, doesnt mean it is increasing. It just means its being reported more often.
Violence is a big seller, the news companies know this.

I have no idea how old you are but I'm 56 ..I grew up in a rough nieghborhood..fighting was commonplace and I'm sure a few of the guys I went to school with found their way to prison...but none of us ever thought about taking a gun out and shooting another guy no matter how much we hated them..beat yeah,chains yeah,baseball bats it happened, knive? but never guns.....at a Highschool dance in richmond Ca, a 15 year old girls was gang raped and people were recording it on their iphones....it's not the numbers that are so scary it is the inhumanity that is so frightening....our society and culture are unraveling we all know it and we expect the cops to hold it togehter.....that is irresonsible and it won't work....my wife is a teacher in Oakland ....her kids alot of them have no fathers some have niether parent they are having to deal with shit they shouldn't have to deal with,and they can't and they come unglued....and as a society we put the role of parenting on the teachers, or we put the role of parenting on the taxpayer,or we put the role of parenting on the cops,but we never ever put it were it belongs on the parents,because telling parents to do their job doesn't win votes.....especially when the parents are not old enough to have their brains fully formed.
Aside from all that I do believe the goverment is trying to normalize us to police violence and to obey..Nobody in power obeys or respects the law from our president, to our congress, to our govenors to our mayors none of them are interested in upholding the concept of the law they all break the law as far as they can, when our leaders defile the law so will the people. The people will realize that the only way to get ahead is to break or pervert the law, and that the honest guys are chumps...when that happens you have chaos and you have a society ruled not by law but by power and violence...

 

[Pauly Walnuts]

I have no idea how old you are but ..I grew up in a rough nieghborhood..fighting was commonplace and I'm sure a few of the guys I went to school with found their way to prison...but none of us ever thought about taking a gun out and shooting another guy no matter how much we hated them..beat yeah,chains yeah,baseball bats it happened, knive? but never guns.....at a Highschool dance in richmond Ca, a 15 year old girls was gang raped and people were recording it on their iphones....it's not the numbers that are so scary it is the inhumanity that is so frightening....our society and culture are unraveling we all know it and we expect the cops to hold it togehter.....that is irresonsible and it won't work....my wife is a teacher in Oakland ....her kids alot of them have no fathers some have niether parent they are having to deal with shit they shouldn't have to deal with,and they can't and they come unglued....and as a society we put the role of parenting on the teachers, or we put the role of parenting on the taxpayer,or we put the role of parenting on the cops,but we never ever put it were it belongs on the parents,because telling parents to do their job doesn't win votes.....especially when the parents are not old enough to have their brains fully formed.

I just don't believe society is more violent than it ever was, its that crimes are more reported and videoed now, thats what I was referring to.
Personal responsibility is the only way out, but its very unpopular with the people and elected officials . I completely agree with you.

 

[pulsevape]

My daughter goes to school with a kid...it's a much safer school than I went to..the kids don't really fight...but one of the kids she goes to school with has neither parent thanks to drugs, he's being raised by one of his aunts..who it appears is on the same road to jail as his parents...the other day somebody put 4 bullet holes through their front door...in retaliation for something th aunt did.....now, as I said I grew up in a barrio...we were all dirt poor,but we had our parents...we had holes in our shoes , but never bullet holes in our doors...and the wolf was at the door most times,but we had our family we weren't alone,we had people who cared about us..and people who smacked us up side the head when we did something that put our futures in peril,that taught us to take care of ourselves to not harm others,to work, to study,to be honorable.......once the family breaks down there won't be enough tax dollars in the world to set lives right.

 

[jack]

And it's just that, a story. The real story of Detroit and it's suburbs is very, very well documented. You should try reading some time.

Are you trying to insinuate I'm racist? It's just a simple fact that my town has few minorities and is mostly middle class white folk that are getting fed up with current police tactics. It's not Ferguson, Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore or any other high crime city. There are no rabble close by to move in. In other words, it's not just black people in poor neiborhoods getting tired of fucked up police profiling, white middle class people are getting tired of it too, dumbass.

So there are no black middle class people ? I am so sorry I did not understand ! Only black people live in poor neighborhoods ! I understand now ! You poor demented , racist , conniving ,
conceited piece of work . So any minority, can never be middle class where you live . Your words not mine . And I never had to call you a dumbass . You did it all by yourself , your parents must be so proud !

 

[raqball]

Raqball, I know you dont agree with my point of view, since we are from very different worlds. But please dont think Im pointing anything directly at you, Im not writing a novel and I need to take broad strokes. I appreciate that youll comment and dont just get pissed off and walk away.

Trust me, I'm not pissed off or upset.. Nothing in this thread will make anyone change their opinion..

In addition, what kid do you know that completes a 4 year degree and has any idea of the real world? Very few college graduates have any marketable skills, let alone a deep knowledge of the constitution, an understanding of cause and effect legal impacts on real people, or whos actually pulling their strings (who made the laws and why).

But it's not as simple as you are making it out to be,,

My hiring process went something like this: (you must pass each step to move on to the next)

1. Written test
2. Physical fitness test
3. 1st background check (more in depth than most would ever go through for a normal job)
4. Polygraph
5. Psychological written test
6. 4 hour visit with a psychiatrist (maybe it was 3, can't remember)
7. Oral interview
8. Intense and very detailed background check (this took 4 months I think)
9. Polygraph # 2
10. Oral interview # 2. Very lengthy
11. Job offer
12. 2 years of on the job training where you are on probation. During this time you can be terminated for any reason.

You don't apply, talk to one person, get hired and be given a gun all in one day. The process I described above took almost 3 years total. About a year for steps 1-11 and then the 2 years of training..

Im sure alot of these kids have a criminal justice degree. Thats just great, they have been indoctrinated to believe all laws are gods word, and all who disobey must be taken by force and punished.

Nope.. You'd be surprised how many have other degrees, Mine is in Computer Science..

I just dont believe that people get into this profession with a consice understanding of what they are doing and who they are actually doing it for. Let alone the fact that people with retail store manager's education, are given power over every citizen in their path.

An officer makes a split second decision that lawyers and judges can't even agree on after taking years and years to review the facts.

Are you suggesting that only people with a law degree and who have passed the bar should be law enforcement? You'd have 3 cops in a city the size of LA if that were the case.

 

[Barkt]

Trust me, I'm not pissed off or upset.. Nothing in this thread will make anyone change their opinion..



But it's not as simple as you are making it out to be,,

My hiring process went something like this: (you must pass each step to move on to the next)

1. Written test
2. Physical fitness test
3. 1st background check (more in depth than most would ever go through for a normal job)
4. Polygraph
5. Psychological written test
6. 4 hour visit with a psychiatrist (maybe it was 3, can't remember)
7. Oral interview
8. Intense and very detailed background check (this took 4 months I think)
9. Polygraph # 2
10. Oral interview # 2. Very lengthy
11. Job offer
12. 2 years of on the job training where you are on probation. During this time you can be terminated for any reason.

You don't apply, talk to one person, get hired and be given a gun all in one day. The process I described above took almost 3 years total. About a year for steps 1-11 and then the 2 years of training..



Nope.. You'd be surprised how many have other degrees, Mine is in Computer Science..



An officer makes a split second decision that lawyers and judges can't even agree on after taking years and years to review the facts.

Are you suggesting that only people with a law degree and who have passed the bar should be law enforcement? You'd have 3 cops in a city the size of LA if that were the case.

I'd say that you may not need a lawyers education, but certainly more than what is currently the standard. I live in PA but am visiting family in OH this weekend. A cop was just acquitted of any wrongdoing in Cleveland after taking part in killing two unarmed suspects with over 135 rounds shot at them. How many times do you really need to fucking shoot at someone before you realize NO ONE is shooting back?

 

[pulsevape]

You are absolutely, 100% correct. Economic depression is the main problem in detroit, not lack of cops. There are no cops there because there is nothing of value to protect. Areas where there are things of value, there is plenty of local revenue to pay for police departments. Its an incredibly common misconception that the police are meant to protect the people. They are meant to protect govt assets, manufacture revenue, and enforce laws. If protecting people was their job, they would fight against the lawmakers who's mandates ruin so many americans lives. The only people they are obligated to protect is themselves.

But like Ive said before, its not the individual officers fault. The vast majority of them are undereducated and purposefully not taught to understand why most laws (victimless, non violent, non sexual) are unjust. They are never taught that these laws were not made for the benefit of the society, but for the interests of 'big money' that rules over our political system. Most citizens dont understand this either, but since its not a part of the 'program', the television isnt going to tell them.

I think this an breathtakingly elitist and niave worldview....."The vast majority of them are undereducated ".....the average cop whose been doing it for any length of time is incredibelly street smart.....he know and is intimately more aware of the lives and sufferings and causes of that suffering of the common people than any social worker with a Phd. from Columbia....I'm sorry but I find this kind of thinking silly and offensive.

 

[pulsevape]

I'd say that you may not need a lawyers education, but certainly more than what is currently the standard. I live in PA but am visiting family in OH this weekend. A cop was just acquitted of any wrongdoing in Cleveland after taking part in killing two unarmed suspects with over 135 rounds shot at them. How many times do you really need to fucking shoot at someone before you realize NO ONE is shooting back?

that's an incredible story.....but how you make a connection between this guys reaction and book learning is quite a stretch.....the biggest crimianls and most brutal monsters on the planet graduated from the Ivy league.

 

[MEENMAN83]

I might mispell as I am medically retired military please forgive me.

All these people using race cards and stereotypes piss me off when correlating it to LE. Honestly NONE of us where around during the 1950s. Saying the cops and the man profile anyone not a white skin tone are dumb and should be tazed by cops when pulled over. The POTUS is black/arab so going on about cops profiling anyone nonwhite is stupid. Also you do realize a cop has less then a split second to make a choice. Gee lets take the chance of the guy giving me shit starts acting crazy and has a gun shoots me and an innocent civilian or should I use some force to A) stop the criminal B) save potential innocent casaulties C) would be nice to bang my spouse and tuck my kids into bed. As a few others have said when pulled over just shut the fuck up and comply. Personally LE is a shitty job with minimal rewards its kind of damned if I do damned if I dont. I think anyone who smarts off and causes a scene should be tazed and severely beat. Everyone these dahs think they are entitled its horse shit. If you werent doing anything wrong then remain calm, follow instructions and youre fine. So using the rubes that think their rights are being violated when asked what theyre doing would 10 times out of 10 prefer an arab to be searched with a rubber glove at an airport for that sense of safety which makes their rational when theyre stopped hypocritical. If you run youre guilty dont tell me different if you do youre a fucking mental cripple and deserve to be shot. I know sounds tough but so is life. Its just this new era where everyone wants to feel safe but doesnt want to follow through on their responsibilities with the safety enforcement. In fact these whiners bitching about cops harassing are mugged and sodomized by someone the cops should have stopped and been more agreesive in questioning or frisking so they learn a sweet lesson of LE has to be dicks to a certain extent. This new idiology of i want a cake and my own piece at the same time is what is ruining society. Everyone has the need to film and act fucking toug behind a phone talking shit. Would you talk shit to a guy dealing dope on the corner or your parents/spouse like youmdo the cops? If you answered no you need to take a long look at yourself in the mirror. Personally I dont care if I get hassled/pulled over/frisked as they have a valid reason. Laslty funny how no one mentions cops doing great things like oh I dont know stopping rapists, drug violence and dealing the scum that wiuld make you shit your pants if you engaged them. But alas i digress opions are like assholes everyone has them ans they stink. But last question to let you think....would you rather someone get shot in the back running or should they let him go and he takes a love one bostage and shoots them.

 

[raqball]

I'd say that you may not need a lawyers education, but certainly more than what is currently the standard.

The standard and process I outlined above is not enough? LOLOL

Come on, now you are just being ridiculous.. If you want robots that can be programmed then someone needs to invent them and toss them all into police uniforms.

I've stated before, there are some who should NOT be in Law Enforcement but in my time, they are few and far in-between.. Most are hard working, honest and caring people.. Choose to believe it or not but I've never heard a single person say I want to shoot someone, or I hope I get to shoot someone or hey, lets harass people in old cars today. Or.. heck Bob, let go after and harass all the Green Martians today.. Today we are only going after the drug dealers from Saturn,, Never once did I hear or see anything of the sort..

With that, I'm back outta here AGAIN... Ya'll have fun in here..

 

[pulsevape]

It must be hard to be a cop with like 2 little kids and a wife and..you just want to get through the day without getting shot, so you can make it to the kid's little leauge game and the barbeque...and you have to work alongside some sociopathic militaristic loony tune who wants to tazer some guy for giving lip. or put granny in a choke hold for using her whellchair on the sidewalk.

and I know the narritive being put out by the whitehouse and the injustice department is that this "massive prevalence" of police violence is due to racisim or sociopathic loonies in uniforms...but i'm just curious if it might have to do with shortages of officers, are we overworking these people, or pdst where we have cops in bad neighborhoods for long periods of time under too much stress year in year out...just wondering.

 

[Barkt]

The standard and process I outlined above is not enough? LOLOL

Come on, now you are just being ridiculous.. If you want robots that can be programmed then someone needs to invent them and toss them all into police uniforms.

I've stated before, they are some who should NOT be in Law Enforcement but in my time, they are few and far in-between.. Most are hard working, honest and caring people.. Choose to believe it or not but I've never heard a single person say I want to shoot someone, or I hope I get to shoot someone or hey, lets harass people in old cars today. Or.. heck Bob, let go after and harass all the Green Martians today.. Never once did I hear or see anything of the sort..

I have an entire side of my family in law enforcement and an ADA for an aunt. I don't view the justice system as some faceless entity. But cherry picking my first line without acknowledging the fact that TODAY a cop was set free for helping to shoot 135 times at an unarmed couple, regardless of what they did, is insane. I was brought up around guns, raises to respect them. 135 rounds is more than I'll shoot at a day at the range, let alone at 2 people in a car who aren't shooting back.

 

[MEENMAN83]

It must be hard to be a cop with like 2 little kids and a wife and..you just want to get through the day without getting shot, so you can make it to the kid's little leauge game and the barbeque...and you have to work alongside some sociopathic militaristic loony tune who wants to tazer some guy for giving lip. or put granny in a choke hold for using her whellchair on the sidewalk.

Not giving lip I stated running away. Nice try on trying to spin my words shakespeare. Also choke holding Granny REALLY? Sounds like someone didnt get desert as a child has some pent up anger with their sweet kind Betty White Grandma. Also kind of rude to infer that all old people use wheelchairs, stereotype much Boss?

 

[MEENMAN83]

I have an entire side of my family in law enforcement and an ADA for an aunt. I don't view the justice system as some faceless entity. But cherry picking my first line without acknowledging the fact that TODAY a cop was set free for helping to shoot 135 times at an unarmed couple, regardless of what they did, is insane. I was brought up around guns, raises to respect them. 135 rounds is more than I'll shoot at a day at the range, let alone at 2 people in a car who aren't shooting back.

You do have to applaud the officer's thoroughness and reloading abilities.

 

[Barkt]

You do have to applaud the officer's thoroughness and reloading abilities.

I absolutely do. I can't imagine e reloading a Glock that many times without thinking " Should bullets be coming at me too?". The fact that he was able to ignore that and continue shooting is commendable.

 

[pulsevape]

Not giving lip I stated running away. Nice try on trying to spin my words shakespeare. Also choke holding Granny REALLY? Sounds like someone didnt get desert as a child has some pent up anger with their sweet kind Betty White Grandma. Also kind of rude to infer that all old people use wheelchairs, stereotype much Boss?

...I'm sorry I wan't alluding to the post you made I was just thinking out loud....I have no idea who you are or what you wrote......

 

[jack]

I absolutely do. I can't imagine e reloading a Glock that many times without thinking " Should bullets be coming at me too?". The fact that he was able to ignore that and continue shooting is commendable.

That is not what happened . The car was chased and pulled into a parking lot , they tried to turn, sideswiped a copcar and the cops around the car fired 135 rounds . One officier fired 15 rounds from his car got out and jumped on the hood and fired 15 more rounds thru the other cars windshield . One cop did not ever fire 135 rounds . Really , people think that possible ! Perfect example of panic and over reaction . Don't read anything into that just an observation , and my own opinion (worth little ) .

 

[Barkt]

That is not what happened . The car was chased and pulled into a parking lot , they tried to turn, sideswiped a copcar and the cops around the car fired 135 rounds . One officier fired 15 rounds from his car got out and jumped on the hood and fired 15 more rounds thru the other cars windshield . One cop did not ever fire 135 rounds . Really , people think that possible !

I said helped for a reason. The 2nd post was a joke. The point is, regardless, that there have been far too many police officers killing unarmed suspects in the news over the last year but nobody seems to care. It falls into two camps instead. You have your ultra liberal "all cops are bad" mentality against the conservative "they probably deserved it" mentality. The middle ground is that police officers are necessary to society but something needs to be tweaked. But the middle ground is ignored, because its harder to be polemic. Poor fucking Siddhartha roles in his grave.

 

[pulsevape]

I said helped for a reason. The 2nd post was a joke. The point is, regardless, that there have been far too many police officers killing unarmed suspects in the news over the last year but nobody seems to care. It falls into two camps instead. You have your ultra liberal "all cops are bad" mentality against the conservative "they probably deserved it" mentality. The middle ground is that police officers are necessary to society but something needs to be tweaked. But the middle ground is ignored, because its harder to be polemic. Poor fucking Siddhartha roles in his grave.

that was brilliantly said.....the other idea is that these incedents are being astroturffed for political gain...

 

[Barkt]

that was brilliantly said.....the other idea is that these incedents are being astroturffed for political gain...

I don't subscribe to that. Its not political. It happened, it's tragic, but its not political. Its a shame, not an agenda

 

[pulsevape]

I on the other hand believe the media and the political class cherry pick and distort things to manufacture opinion and consent in the minds of the masses to shape their thinking.....how many times have you had a conversation with someone on a political issue,and suddenly you realize they have just recited the first paragraph verbatim of last nights TV news....as being their thoughts on the matter....

 

[Pauly Walnuts]

I think this an breathtakingly elitist and niave worldview....."The vast majority of them are undereducated ".....the average cop whose been doing it for any length of time is incredibelly street smart.....he know and is intimately more aware of the lives and sufferings and causes of that suffering of the common people than any social worker with a Phd. from Columbia....I'm sorry but I find this kind of thinking silly and offensive.

Im not talking about college, Im saying that many officers dont know why a law was made, who it benefits (rarely anyone but the state or its direct benefactors), or understand the impact misplaced criminal justice has on real people. They arrest, charge, then a terribly corrupted court system takes care of the rest. If the police didnt wisk everyone into the courts, where everyone is not assumed innocent and the police are always right, things may not be so bad.
Schooling is one thing, but its all done in an way that aggrandizes the system as a whole, which doesnt lead people to ask the right questions.
Theres a big difference between being street smart and understanding the impact your having on society as a whole.

 

[Pauly Walnuts]

Im gonna take a step back and try to help you guys understand what im saying, which is hard from behind a keyboard.
Im not blaming the police themselves. I know cops, sheriffs deputies and most of them are good people, brainwashed into bad system, but good human beings.
I am blaming the system itself, as a whole. There are so many reasons I honestly dont know where to start.
My main issue is with the lawmakers and the courts. The trickle down effect this has on the streets is terrible, but the roots are at the top.

 

[Pauly Walnuts]

I said helped for a reason. The 2nd post was a joke. The point is, regardless, that there have been far too many police officers killing unarmed suspects in the news over the last year but nobody seems to care. It falls into two camps instead. You have your ultra liberal "all cops are bad" mentality against the conservative "they probably deserved it" mentality. The middle ground is that police officers are necessary to society but something needs to be tweaked. But the middle ground is ignored, because its harder to be polemic. Poor fucking Siddhartha roles in his grave.

Its not just over the last year, its been happening for a long time (we'd know more, but they dont keep records of when they kill someone).
For some reason, over the last year the media 'all of a sudden', start reporting on these things. Probably due to their race baiting nature, but it opens a larger conversation of their conduct and impact on real people.
The problem is, they are demonizing the cops and not the shit bags who are responsible for the thousands of laws that are meant to generate revenue, at the the cost of once innocent people.

 

[pulsevape]

Im not talking about college, Im saying that many officers dont know why a law was made, who it benefits (rarely anyone but the state or its direct benefactors), or understand the impact misplaced criminal justice has on real people. They arrest, charge, then a terribly corrupted court system takes care of the rest. If the police didnt wisk everyone into the courts, where everyone is not assumed innocent and the police are always right, things may not be so bad.
Schooling is one thing, but its all done in an way that aggrandizes the system as a whole, which doesnt lead people to ask the right questions.
Theres a big difference between being street smart and understanding the impact your having on society as a whole.

Mark Twain never saw the inside of a university.....Jack London didn't last a single semester at the University at Berkeley before leaving for the Klondike...both of these guys are two of the most widely read authors in history.....and both of them were outspoken social critics...in fact London ran for the govenor of Ca, on the socialist ticket, he was widely read and loved among the russian communists and socialist europeans.......the idea that one needs to have the permission and sanction of a group of cloistered eunnics in order to read and think is one of the myths of the psuedo intellectuals that props up their relevancy in the culture and justifies their bloated and undeserved wages, and their influence in the culture....the idea that those sanctioned by the ivy league are educated is about as ridiculous and outdated as the idea that you need to go through a priest in order to speak to God....

 

[pulsevape]

Its not just over the last year, its been happening for a long time (we'd know more, but they dont keep records of when they kill someone).
For some reason, over the last year the media 'all of a sudden', start reporting on these things. Probably due to their race baiting nature, but it opens a larger conversation of their conduct and impact on real people.
The problem is, they are demonizing the cops and not the shit bags who are responsible for the thousands of laws that are meant to generate revenue, at the the cost of once innocent people.

tru dat.

 

[MEENMAN83]

Law makers are more too blame then "civilized and rational" members of our society who take it upon themselves to riot, loot, burn and destroy cities when they happen to feel violated? Sounds awfully like a toddler's temper tantrum because they didnt get a cookie. So a cop using a smidge of excessive force that wasnt neccessary is more important then the rioters/protestors?