DNA250 battery question

[aswain]

Hello everyone. So I recently ordered the Wismec Reuleaux DNA250, and shortly after saw that it uses three 18650 cell batteries, which is a little troubling for me.

Currently my mods both use two 18650 cell batts, which I charge 2 at a time on a charger that holds maximum 2 batteries. I have a total of 6 Ohmash O-B18650-40R batteries that I purchased as packs of two.

So it's my understanding that 18650 batts must be purchased together and charged together if they are to be used together. This raises some questions for me.

1. Do I need to purchase new batteries for this mod, since all of mine were purchased and charged as sets of two? I'm assuming I need to purchase a set of 3, which to my knowledge doesn't exist - which would mean I'd need to get a set of 4 and throw one out..
2. Do I need a new charger? If so, does it need to be a charger that charges 4 batteries at a time?

I'm really confused about this and I really don't want my brand new mod to blow up in my face. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

*Bonus question if you're feeling up to it: I currently use a Herakles Plus tank which I plan to use when I receive my Wismec Reuleaux DNA250. Is this a good set up? If not, I'm happy to buy a new tank - which ones do you recommend? I prefer not to get any SMOK products after my Alien died within 3 months, but maybe their tanks are better quality? idk I'm a vape noob

 

[Vapin4Joy]

First, Omash batteries are rewrap crap, trash them, there are no 40A 18650 batteries made, 30A max, my suggestion, buy genuine Sony, LG or Samsung batteries. You can marry 3 batteries and charging them in a 2 bay charger is fine, do 2 then the third. But seriously, get rid of the Omash batteries, dangerous. Buy 3 new batteries!

 

[aswain]

First, Omash batteries are rewrap crap, trash them, there are no 40A 18650 batteries made, 30A max, my suggestion, buy genuine Sony, LG or Samsung batteries. You can marry 3 batteries and charging them in a 2 bay charger is fine, do 2 then the third. But seriously, get rid of the Omash batteries, dangerous. Buy 3 new batteries!

They say 40A because its a 2 pack of 20A. Those things were kind of expensive though, do you really think I should trash them? I paid $8.50 for each one.

What a mission just to keep batteries charged. Can I at least expect the battery life to be longer with 3 batts?

 

[aswain]

It's all good, I'll get new batteries. One thing though, is it ok to buy three packs of 2 and use 3 at a time?

 

[SteveS45]

I say you should buy 6 new batteries so you have 2 married sets of 3 cells to use 3 while one set is charging!

 

[aswain]

I say you should buy 6 new batteries so you have 2 married sets of 3 cells to use 3 while one set is charging!

I'll do that. I found a 6 pack on Amazon:
So if I get these, get a charger that holds 4, and rotate them 3 at a time I'll be good?

I gotta say I wasn't expecting this investment when getting a new mod. Thank god for credit cards

Edit: I guess I can't post a link to amazon? Here's the item name: 6 LG HE2 18650 2500mAh 35A 3.7v Rechargeable Flat Top Batteries

 

[SteveS45]

I never bought batteries on Amazon and you better check the authenticity of the cells you are purchasing.

 

[r055co]

I'll do that. I found a 6 pack on Amazon:
So if I get these, get a charger that holds 4, and rotate them 3 at a time I'll be good?

I gotta say I wasn't expecting this investment when getting a new mod. Thank god for credit cards

Edit: I guess I can't post a link to amazon? Here's the item name: 6 LG HE2 18650 2500mAh 35A 3.7v Rechargeable Flat Top Batteries

Do NOT buy batteries off Amazon, 99% of the time they are fakes.

Good prices and can be trusted

https://www.illumn.com/batteries-chargers-and-powerpax-carriers/batteries.html
https://www.imrbatteries.com/
https://liionwholesale.com/

Do NOT buy batteries off Amazon or eBay!

 

[Vapin4Joy]

I'll do that. I found a 6 pack on Amazon:
So if I get these, get a charger that holds 4, and rotate them 3 at a time I'll be good?

I gotta say I wasn't expecting this investment when getting a new mod. Thank god for credit cards

Edit: I guess I can't post a link to amazon? Here's the item name: 6 LG HE2 18650 2500mAh 35A 3.7v Rechargeable Flat Top Batteries

Many members here on the VU use Liion Wholsale for batteries, great prices and a honest vendor selling genuine batteries.
Here>>>>https://liionwholesale.com/

 

[ChrisL]

For the record, the BEST battery online retailer imo happens to have an Ebay presence, so when I see comments like never buy batteries on Ebay just limits consumer choices. Genuine Cells has great prices, AUTHENTIC batteries with fast shipping and a no questions asked return policy. When purchasing anything on ebay, check customer ratings and ask the seller any concerns you might have. You can also find them at genuinecells.com

 

[gbalkam]

item name: 6 LG HE2 18650 2500mAh 35A 3.7v Rechargeable Flat Top Batteries

LGHE2 is a 20A battery holding a 2500MaH charge. The supplier is claiming a constant discharge rate nearly double the actual CDR. In other words, they are lying to you. "FUCK YOU as long as we make a sale!" Is the basic message they are sending. Remember... 35A CDR DO NOT EXIST.
Rule of thumb.. High MaH = Lower CDR. so.. 3000MaH= 20A. 2000Mah= 30A. (aprox)

Nevermind looking for best bargain, look for most reliable source. I pay $12.50 each for my batteries. $4 more than what you are getting from ebay. But I know my batteries are authentic, 1st run, brand name batteries and not factory 2nds or rewraps.
Now, your MOD is a regulated mod, so maybe you will be ok. I figure get into the habit of not taking any chances. Just buy brand name batteries from a reliable source and you're covered. I buy mine at my local shop. Got to float them some business. They aren't just there to give free information after all.

 

[eStorm]

Most of it has been answered. I do not own the tank you have listed in your bonus question, but I can tell you one thing, smok tanks are a disaster. I hate that brand for a reason, but even tho, some of their mods ain't bad. With that said, that doesn't apply to the coils or tanks. Forum shows it too, every 2 and post is about the tanks or coils. I won't say that some people got lucky with the tanks but majority of people do not share that experience. Up to you at the end. This is just my opinion.

 

[Drum71]

I just purchased 6 Samsung 30Q 18650 3000mAh 15A 3.6V Batteries from 18650 Battery Store for $4.99 each. Did I just buy rewraps? The wrap was the same color pink as my more expensive one’s from Element but I’m guessing that doesn’t matter. How is someone supposed to tell if they’re authentic, especially buying online? It had the dot matrix print and everything.

By the way, I checked Liion Wholesale and the batteries pictured there are identical to the ones I'm getting from 18650 Battery Store.

 

[r055co]

How is someone supposed to tell if they’re authentic, especially buying online?

By not buying them off eBay or Amazon and buying them from trusted sources.


Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[Drum71]

By not buying them off eBay or Amazon and buying them from trusted sources.


Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

Define "trusted source". Every website I'm on is new to me since I just started vaping 2 months ago. Is there a way to tell the difference between batteries? Anything to look for on the wrap, like specific numbers?

 

[r055co]

Define "trusted source". Every website I'm on is new to me since I just started vaping 2 months ago. Is there a way to tell the difference between batteries? Anything to look for on the wrap, like specific numbers?

Those who shit out the fakes are very good so unless you are an expert you can easily be fooled.

Trusted sources are

Liionwholesale.com
Imrbatteries.com
illumn.com

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[Drum71]

So..... When I get my batteries from 18650 Battery Store and, assuming they hold a charge, operate my mod and don’t blow up, can I then come here and tell the world they are legit and trustworthy?

No offense but I’m not complacent with just taking the average persons word without study. That’s what a “sheeple” does. I’m scientific. I want HARD FACTS! I need one of these “experts” To validate what is and isn’t a fake.

Liionwholesale.com could start selling rewraps tomorrow. Good companies go bad all the time and get away with it, hence why we’ve gotten to where we are today. So, if that happens, there will be hundreds of uninformed customers recommending a con-site on VU.
Hopefully, at some point, some knowledgable person will realize this and blow the whistle. THAT is the person I’d like to hear from right now. Not someone who heard from someone else that “this place is good”. Someone who knows their shit, period!

Sorry if I sound harsh but EVERYONE should question everything and insist on factual evidence. This is why so many otherwise intelligent people are walking around with their head shoved up their ass!


So, with all due respect, when someone chimes in with some FACTS and not just hear-say, I’m all ears.

 

[Carambrda]

By not buying them off eBay or Amazon and buying them from trusted sources.


Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

Mooch said (in a video interview on YouTube) you'd have to use a loupe / magnifying lens to look at the tooling marks, and even then you still wouldn't always be able to tell because the counterfeiters are getting really good at creating the fakes. He also said therefore you'd still have to test them in a lab to be sure. Another thing he said is that none of the vendors he calls "trusted" have the resources/personnel to always detect fakes so, sooner or later, EVERY vendor is going to get fakes. He then added that what makes a vendor reliable is what they'll do once they find out they've been selling fakes, and, some vendors actually even keep selling the fakes when they already know the ones they're selling are fakes. Further, it would appear to me a lot of people on this forum website love to spread misinformation about batteries. I don't know why, but it keeps happening all the time... almost to the point of there being more misguided forum posts than there are fake batteries out there. Maybe it is just stupidity going on. Or maybe people want to make themselves popular on a forum by trying to come across as someone who is knowledgeable and helpful. I guess it is OK to try and be helpful to others. But the sad reality is people are driven back to smoking cigarettes due to poor battery performance resulting from poor battery choices based on poor battery advice handed out by the online morons and attention whores. Not pointing any fingers, but it is a visible problem. And it appears to be a growing one.

 

[KingPin!]

I’m yet to see posts from people ^^ on here where recommended batteries are not one of the mainstream ones Carambrda so not sure what you mean there with regards to miss information?

Countless times when people ask it’s pretty much rinse and repeat ...just how many “what battery” threads are there on here it’s a lot I’m guessing

...But there is a level of learning yourself as you go, and part of that journey is you believe what you know is the truth until you learn otherwise and keep an open mind with it...nobody is born with knowledge off the bat (mooch or otherwise)

this is a forum where we discuss things argue and all the other shinanigans that go on ...you will sometimes see older posts where information may not be right at that time (hell i saw one of mine earlier just like that and edited accordingly) but if you were to ask now the information given may well be better because of the collective thinking that goes on in social media.

people offer opinions and ideas it’s frustrating sometimes especially when people don’t try to appreciate other people’s views or are close minded sure but I think it helps to remember that

 

[gbalkam]

So..... When I get my batteries from 18650 Battery Store and, assuming they hold a charge, operate my mod and don’t blow up, can I then come here and tell the world they are legit and trustworthy?

No offense but I’m not complacent with just taking the average persons word without study. That’s what a “sheeple” does. I’m scientific. I want HARD FACTS! I need one of these “experts” To validate what is and isn’t a fake.

Liionwholesale.com could start selling rewraps tomorrow. Good companies go bad all the time and get away with it, hence why we’ve gotten to where we are today. So, if that happens, there will be hundreds of uninformed customers recommending a con-site on VU.
Hopefully, at some point, some knowledgable person will realize this and blow the whistle. THAT is the person I’d like to hear from right now. Not someone who heard from someone else that “this place is good”. Someone who knows their shit, period!

Sorry if I sound harsh but EVERYONE should question everything and insist on factual evidence. This is why so many otherwise intelligent people are walking around with their head shoved up their ass!


So, with all due respect, when someone chimes in with some FACTS and not just hear-say, I’m all ears.

Right! Do your own research to verify.
Sites we recommend are generally sites we have dealt with and do repeated business with. Fasttech is one, but you have to read the product info.
Some things are just common sense. Like when we say don't use rewrapped or recycled batteries...we mean it. High drain, 20A to 30A samsung, sony, lg only. (panosonic is ok, but only if you can't get the other 3 brands)
LOL Some of us, such as myself, will actually tell you to do your own research (with a point in the right direction) such as when building coils for mech mods. Trust me, this really pisses some people off. You have to tell them they need to learn more even if they have been vaping for years.

So yeah, asking for advice and then verifying for yourself is a good plan.
Personally, I will never recommend anything that MIGHT be less than safe. (or as close to safe as we can get, since nothing vape related is 100% "safe" all the time). The idea is to come as close to 100% safe as we can.

 

[r055co]

Mooch said (in a video interview on YouTube) you'd have to use a loupe / magnifying lens to look at the tooling marks, and even then you still wouldn't always be able to tell because the counterfeiters are getting really good at creating the fakes. He also said therefore you'd still have to test them in a lab to be sure. Another thing he said is that none of the vendors he calls "trusted" have the resources/personnel to always detect fakes so, sooner or later, EVERY vendor is going to get fakes. He then added that what makes a vendor reliable is what they'll do once they find out they've been selling fakes, and, some vendors actually even keep selling the fakes when they already know the ones they're selling are fakes. Further, it would appear to me a lot of people on this forum website love to spread misinformation about batteries. I don't know why, but it keeps happening all the time... almost to the point of there being more misguided forum posts than there are fake batteries out there. Maybe it is just stupidity going on. Or maybe people want to make themselves popular on a forum by trying to come across as someone who is knowledgeable and helpful. I guess it is OK to try and be helpful to others. But the sad reality is people are driven back to smoking cigarettes due to poor battery performance resulting from poor battery choices based on poor battery advice handed out by the online morons and attention whores. Not pointing any fingers, but it is a visible problem. And it appears to be a growing one.

That's why we maintain recommendations of "trusted" vendors. An example is IMR Batteries found out they got a batch of Fakes verified by Mooch, once they found out they proactivaly contacted all who bought from that batch and offered either a full refund or replacement.

Here at VU we recommend three and that is for a reason.

 

[Carambrda]

I’m yet to see posts from people ^^ on here where recommended batteries are not one of the mainstream ones Carambrda so not sure what you mean there with regards to miss information?

Countless times when people ask it’s pretty much rinse and repeat ...just how many “what battery” threads are there on here it’s a lot I’m guessing

...But there is a level of learning yourself as you go, and part of that journey is you believe what you know is the truth until you learn otherwise and keep an open mind with it...nobody is born with knowledge off the bat (mooch or otherwise)

this is a forum where we discuss things argue and all the other shinanigans that go on ...you will sometimes see older posts where information may not be right at that time (hell i saw one of mine earlier just like that and edited accordingly) but if you were to ask now the information given may well be better because of the collective thinking that goes on in social media.

people offer opinions and ideas it’s frustrating sometimes especially when people don’t try to appreciate other people’s views or are close minded sure but I think it helps to remember that

I know it's pretty much rinse and repeat. But for example why do people, when they hand out their "advice", keep confusing the CDR with the MVA rating when the reality is Mooch clearly said the CDR is useful to compare different batteries to eachother in terms of how they perform, but NOT their safety? Another nice example IMO are people who are constantly handing out paranoid advice about ohms on a mech. Mooch clearly said everyone has to decide for him/herself how far they want to take it, and, if you're not sure how far you can take it, you could decide to go with his MVA ratings... but hardly anyone ever mentions this fact because, instead, what these people will typically do is they'll say things like "don't go below this or that many ohms" when the reality is the battery doesn't even get warm if you vape at half the ohms these people are recommending.

Further, I've lost count of how many times I've had to re-explain battery performance is not the same thing as battery safety. Just because 20 amp 3000 mAh batteries are relatively safe enough for the way you vape, doesn't necessarily also mean you'll get enough extra runtime to be able to justify getting 20 amp batteries. Battery performance is not the same thing as the runtime of the batteries. And the mAh rating is not the same thing as the runtime of the batteries, either. I mean... what could be so hard to understand about the fact that the voltage sag of the battery also plays a huge part? The smaller the voltage sag, the more volts the battery will provide. On a regulated mod, the more volts the battery provides, the less amps the mod will draw from the batteries. And the less amps it draws from the batteries, the longer the runtime will be. Chain vaping also has an impact on the voltage sag. And the voltage sag also has an impact on how well the chip inside the mod will perform its task. This is not about being born with knowledge off the bat. Rather, it is about watching your beard grow whilst people keep handing out their poor advice as opposed to them first doing their own homework properly. Finally, watching (on YouTube) all the video interviews with Mooch does help. But hardly anyone has taken the time to watch them carefully. That's just because too many people are far too busy handing out their "advice" instead.

 

[Carambrda]

That's why we maintain recommendations of "trusted" vendors. An example is IMR Batteries found out they got a batch of Fakes verified by Mooch, once they found out they proactivaly contacted all who bought from that batch and offered either a full refund or replacement.

Here at VU we recommend three and that is for a reason.

Sure, but my point is... how many people are assuming they'll never get fakes if they always buy from these trusted vendors? What do you suppose might happen if these people do get fakes, but they wrongfully trust the fakes because they just trust the vendor as opposed to walking the extra mile by checking how fast their newly purchased batteries heat up inside their mod?

 

[r055co]

Sure, but my point is... how many people are assuming they'll never get fakes if they always buy from these trusted vendors? What do you suppose might happen if these people do get fakes, but they wrongfully trust the fakes because they just trust the vendor as opposed to walking the extra mile by checking how fast their newly purchased batteries heat up inside their mod?

Never said anything about "never" getting fakes, the chances are cut significantly by getting them from trusted sources. Plus as I pointed out what happens and how the vendors back their product.

 

[Drum71]

Right! Do your own research to verify.
Sites we recommend are generally sites we have dealt with and do repeated business with. Fasttech is one, but you have to read the product info.
Some things are just common sense. Like when we say don't use rewrapped or recycled batteries...we mean it. High drain, 20A to 30A samsung, sony, lg only. (panosonic is ok, but only if you can't get the other 3 brands)
LOL Some of us, such as myself, will actually tell you to do your own research (with a point in the right direction) such as when building coils for mech mods. Trust me, this really pisses some people off. You have to tell them they need to learn more even if they have been vaping for years.

So yeah, asking for advice and then verifying for yourself is a good plan.
Personally, I will never recommend anything that MIGHT be less than safe. (or as close to safe as we can get since nothing vape related is 100% "safe" all the time). The idea is to come as close to 100% safe as we can.

First off, I watched your beginners tutorial video for building coils and I owe you a BIG thank you! But not the way you might think... It saved me money! After seeing it, I realized coil building was WAY deeper into vaping than I wanted to go, at least for the foreseeable future. I almost bought a tank and all necessary supplies/tools for it but I’m glad I saw your video and heeded your warnings first. I’m better off sticking to replaceable coils, for now. I DID just get my first order from DIY Vapor Supply, however. My “mad scientist’s lab” of ejuice creation has arrived!

Second, I misunderstood. Did you mean Samsung, Sony and LG were or were not good? (I thought you meant they were. Just clarifying)


@ Carumbrda, thanks for the info about closely inspecting the tool marks! I’m going to start inspecting them myself, even if that’s all I can do right now. I will also start digging for info on the type of tests that the labs run on them like you said, and see if a novice could replicate any of them without huge cost investment.
I’d gladly share what I found out with everyone, just know I am scientific NOT a scientist! I’m also a newb vaper but have excellent mechanical reasoning and an electronics background.


@ ro55co, that goes a long way for IMR for my trust in a vendor. I wasn’t aware that things like that happen here. Vaping brought me to my first forum ever so I don’t grasp the in’s and out’s of it yet. (I still can’t figure out how to start a damn thread! smh, lol)
Did this Mooch mention how he discovered they were fake? That is tremendously valuable info to me.


THANK YOU ALL that have helped me understand all my questions! I consider VU a valuable asset to my journey of quitting cigarettes, and my newfound hobby. It’s also nice to know I’ve got a place to BS with other people that aren’t under the “spell” of conformity. BRAINWASHING DOESN’T WORK ON PEOPLE WITH ADHD! We simply can't pay attention long enough for it to work. ha ha ha!

 

[KingPin!]

I know it's pretty much rinse and repeat. But for example why do people, when they hand out their "advice", keep confusing the CDR with the MVA rating when the reality is Mooch clearly said the CDR is useful to compare different batteries to eachother in terms of how they perform, but NOT their safety? Another nice example IMO are people who are constantly handing out paranoid advice about ohms on a mech. Mooch clearly said everyone has to decide for him/herself how far they want to take it, and, if you're not sure how far you can take it, you could decide to go with his MVA ratings... but hardly anyone ever mentions this fact because, instead, what these people will typically do is they'll say things like "don't go below this or that many ohms" when the reality is the battery doesn't even get warm if you vape at half the ohms these people are recommending.

Further, I've lost count of how many times I've had to re-explain battery performance is not the same thing as battery safety. Just because 20 amp 3000 mAh batteries are relatively safe enough for the way you vape, doesn't necessarily also mean you'll get enough extra runtime to be able to justify getting 20 amp batteries. Battery performance is not the same thing as the runtime of the batteries. And the mAh rating is not the same thing as the runtime of the batteries, either. I mean... what could be so hard to understand about the fact that the voltage sag of the battery also plays a huge part? The smaller the voltage sag, the more volts the battery will provide. On a regulated mod, the more volts the battery provides, the less amps the mod will draw from the batteries. And the less amps it draws from the batteries, the longer the runtime will be. Chain vaping also has an impact on the voltage sag. And the voltage sag also has an impact on how well the chip inside the mod will perform its task. This is not about being born with knowledge off the bat. Rather, it is about watching your beard grow whilst people keep handing out their poor advice as opposed to them first doing their own homework properly. Finally, watching (on YouTube) all the video interviews with Mooch does help. But hardly anyone has taken the time to watch them carefully. That's just because too many people are far too busy handing out their "advice" instead.

Tell you what write a guide for everyone even if at points you feel it’s worth reading certain content elsewhere

If you can work through that guide though so newbies can also grasp everything you are going through that will help, pics, working examples or anologies etc,...you are jumping straight into the deep end expecting everyone to understand everything you are conveying with varying levels of understanding. It will really help to lay some foundations and build on that first to let people catch up to where you are.

this is the same reason most people when they give advice go for safety first advice, it’s easier to convey to new starters - give someone the encyclopaedia straight out you’ll get the 1000 yard stare back.

Seriously though If you wanted to give it a good crack I’ll sticky it for you no probs

 

[Carambrda]

Never said anything about "never" getting fakes, the chances are cut significantly by getting them from trusted sources. Plus as I pointed out what happens and how the vendors back their product.

But you never said anything about occasionally getting fakes, either. Some people are bound to assume "trusted vendor" means a vendor that never sells you fakes.

 

[r055co]

But you never said anything about occasionally getting fakes, either. Some people are bound to assume "trusted vendor" means a vendor that never sells you fakes.

That's why we maintain recommendations of "trusted" vendors. An example is IMR Batteries found out they got a batch of Fakes verified by Mooch, once they found out they proactivaly contacted all who bought from that batch and offered either a full refund or replacement.

Here at VU we recommend three and that is for a reason.

 

[Carambrda]

Tell you what write a guide for everyone even if at points you feel it’s worth reading certain content elsewhere

If you can work through that guide though so newbies can also grasp everything you are going through that will help, pics, working examples or anologies etc,...you are jumping straight into the deep end expecting everyone to understand everything you are conveying with varying levels of understanding. It will really help to lay some foundations and build on that first to let people catch up to where you are.

this is the same reason most people when they give advice go for safety first advice, it’s easier to convey to new starters - give someone the encyclopaedia straight out you’ll get the 1000 yard stare back.

Seriously though If you wanted to give it a good crack I’ll sticky it for you no probs

No, I don't expect everyone to understand everything. But I also don't expect a newbie to learn stuff well if the teachers don't learn stuff well before they start to teach.

 

[Carambrda]

@r055co

How is someone supposed to tell if they’re authentic, especially buying online?

By not buying them off eBay or Amazon and buying them from trusted sources.

 

[Carambrda]

@ Carumbrda, thanks for the info about closely inspecting the tool marks! I’m going to start inspecting them myself, even if that’s all I can do right now. I will also start digging for info on the type of tests that the labs run on them like you said, and see if a novice could replicate any of them without huge cost investment.
I’d gladly share what I found out with everyone, just know I am scientific NOT a scientist! I’m also a newb vaper but have excellent mechanical reasoning and an electronics background.

I'm afraid you'd have to be someone experienced like Mooch to be able to do all that correctly. Testing batteries is an important part of what he does for a living, and, what he's been doing for the vaping community is much more than just a little bit overwhelmingly impressive TBH.

 

[Drum71]

I'm afraid you'd have to be someone experienced like Mooch to be able to do all that correctly. Testing batteries is an important part of what he does for a living, and, what he's been doing for the vaping community is much more than just a little bit overwhelmingly impressive TBH.

Ah ok. I didn't realize he did it for a living. That's awesome that he contributes to us in that way. However, that won't stop me from grabbing my magnifying glass, checking what my current batteries look like, then checking my new one's when they arrive. I gotta start somewhere.

I also will be rewrapping my damaged batteries soon so I'll be absorbing what they look like with no wrapping.
Thanks for the guidance!

 

[Carambrda]

Ah ok. I didn't realize he did it for a living. That's awesome that he contributes to us in that way. However, that won't stop me from grabbing my magnifying glass, checking what my current batteries look like, then checking my new one's when they arrive. I gotta start somewhere.

I also will be rewrapping my damaged batteries soon so I'll be absorbing what they look like with no wrapping.
Thanks for the guidance!

Just because the tooling marks are different, doesn't necessarily mean you're dealing with fakes. So comparing them to be able to more easily spot the fakes is not for everyone... I for sure wouldn't know what to look for in those tooling marks, and, like Mooch also said, the counterfeiters are getting good. Occasionally, it can happen that a battery manufacturer makes other changes that are really very clearly visible. An example:

 

[bobnat]

Mooch said (in a video interview on YouTube) you'd have to use a loupe / magnifying lens to look at the tooling marks, and even then you still wouldn't always be able to tell because the counterfeiters are getting really good at creating the fakes. He also said therefore you'd still have to test them in a lab to be sure. Another thing he said is that none of the vendors he calls "trusted" have the resources/personnel to always detect fakes so, sooner or later, EVERY vendor is going to get fakes. He then added that what makes a vendor reliable is what they'll do once they find out they've been selling fakes, and, some vendors actually even keep selling the fakes when they already know the ones they're selling are fakes. Further, it would appear to me a lot of people on this forum website love to spread misinformation about batteries. I don't know why, but it keeps happening all the time... almost to the point of there being more misguided forum posts than there are fake batteries out there. Maybe it is just stupidity going on. Or maybe people want to make themselves popular on a forum by trying to come across as someone who is knowledgeable and helpful. I guess it is OK to try and be helpful to others. But the sad reality is people are driven back to smoking cigarettes due to poor battery performance resulting from poor battery choices based on poor battery advice handed out by the online morons and attention whores. Not pointing any fingers, but it is a visible problem. And it appears to be a growing one.

I know it's pretty much rinse and repeat. But for example why do people, when they hand out their "advice", keep confusing the CDR with the MVA rating when the reality is Mooch clearly said the CDR is useful to compare different batteries to eachother in terms of how they perform, but NOT their safety? Another nice example IMO are people who are constantly handing out paranoid advice about ohms on a mech. Mooch clearly said everyone has to decide for him/herself how far they want to take it, and, if you're not sure how far you can take it, you could decide to go with his MVA ratings... but hardly anyone ever mentions this fact because, instead, what these people will typically do is they'll say things like "don't go below this or that many ohms" when the reality is the battery doesn't even get warm if you vape at half the ohms these people are recommending.

Further, I've lost count of how many times I've had to re-explain battery performance is not the same thing as battery safety. Just because 20 amp 3000 mAh batteries are relatively safe enough for the way you vape, doesn't necessarily also mean you'll get enough extra runtime to be able to justify getting 20 amp batteries. Battery performance is not the same thing as the runtime of the batteries. And the mAh rating is not the same thing as the runtime of the batteries, either. I mean... what could be so hard to understand about the fact that the voltage sag of the battery also plays a huge part? The smaller the voltage sag, the more volts the battery will provide. On a regulated mod, the more volts the battery provides, the less amps the mod will draw from the batteries. And the less amps it draws from the batteries, the longer the runtime will be. Chain vaping also has an impact on the voltage sag. And the voltage sag also has an impact on how well the chip inside the mod will perform its task. This is not about being born with knowledge off the bat. Rather, it is about watching your beard grow whilst people keep handing out their poor advice as opposed to them first doing their own homework properly. Finally, watching (on YouTube) all the video interviews with Mooch does help. But hardly anyone has taken the time to watch them carefully. That's just because too many people are far too busy handing out their "advice" instead.

It must suck being so unappreciated and misunderstood.

 

[Drum71]

Just because the tooling marks are different, doesn't necessarily mean you're dealing with fakes. So comparing them to be able to more easily spot the fakes is not for everyone... I for sure wouldn't know what to look for in those tooling marks, and, like Mooch also said, the counterfeiters are getting good. Occasionally, it can happen that a battery manufacturer makes other changes that are really very clearly visible. An example:

Thanks again for the info. This does make things difficult.

Pardon my bad memory but I think someone mentioned the fakes heating up in their mod. I have not had any problems like this with my Samsung bat’s from Element Vape. I’ll pay attention to this with my new batteries.

Any other symptoms I should be wary of? (exploding/igniting will be a little late for me to do anything about. lol)

I will search here for Mooch's info but have bombed out with some searches here, like instructions on DIY ejuice. This is my first forum so I could be doing something wrong.

 

[Carambrda]

It must suck being so unappreciated and misunderstood.

Not really. But I'm confident that anyone who found out the hard way that the VTC5A often gives noticeably better vape performance than the 30Q despite that 20 amp batteries are safe enough for the wattage he/she vapes will know by now what kind of people do suck and how to recognize them.

 

[KingPin!]

It must suck being so unappreciated and misunderstood.

I don’t get it Bobnat ...why wouldn’t you want to write a guide though? if you know about a subject in detail it can only help other people if you share that in a coherent way, Including for those trying to do the “teaching”

A few of us have had a crack but they aren’t up to scratch it seems.

I tabled this idea a few weeks back to the mod team...reckon it’s got legs?

“We create a VU wicki area - and no one person can take credit for a topic as each is a community peice”

That’s the idea ......we have a wide knowledge base on this forum but it’s not all focused into a single end point,

As to how to go about doing it is the bone of contention for us right now as few of us forsee some obstacles; Couple of options could be

1) Lock the actual wicki post - mod team edits it from time to time with a new generic wicki type account. The information they take will be from a sandbox area where everyone gets to offer new info (This one will be a ballache for mods to manage though but is does keep out the troublemakers from ruining it for everyone else)

2) create a topic and have a way for users to edit the page, but we have to maintain a small level of control in case some asshole decides to corrupt that page. (I prefer this way but can’t see how we can do it with problems) maybe there is a request to submit box we introduce .... Mods review and accept or deny depending on if they look ok or not (as in no troll or innapropriate activity)

We would need to work out the specifics hell even use this idea as the first straw man, how do we do topics? how to build up a step by step guide as a foundation through to advanced? How do we control it?

I’d be more than happy to donate the few guides ive written to the cause. I really don’t care if my names up the top or not, never created them for self promotion, I just wanted the info in one place so I don’t have to keep re-writing the same thing

 

[Drum71]

Not really. But I'm confident that anyone who found out the hard way that the VTC5A often gives noticeably better vape performance than the 30Q despite that 20 amp batteries are safe enough for the wattage he/she vapes will know by now what kind of people do suck and how to recognize them.

Well, I have 2 Triade DNA250's with 4 Smok Cloud beast King tanks, using the duodenary coils. I usually vape around 90 to 115 watts and 200 to 220 degrees. I'm a fairly heavy vaper @ about 4-5 ml per day. My tank does get warm but not hot. I never feel heat from the batteries. I'm not sure if that info is sufficient for you to know if my 30Q's are a good choice for me. I honestly didn't give battery brand and/or type a thought except for requiring 18650's.

 

[Carambrda]

Thanks again for the info. This does make things difficult.

Pardon my bad memory but I think someone mentioned the fakes heating up in their mod. I have not had any problems like this with my Samsung bat’s from Element Vape. I’ll pay attention to this with my new batteries.

Any other symptoms I should be wary of? (exploding/igniting will be a little late for me to do anything about. lol)

I will search here for Mooch's info but have bombed out with some searches here, like instructions on DIY ejuice. This is my first forum so I could be doing something wrong.

Be wary of people who tell you how hard it must suck the fact that you properly did your homework. The reason why not all fakes heat up in the mod is─aside from the obvious fact it depends on the wattage you vape as well as depends on the number of batteries in the mod─the voltage sag of low drain batteries is so big that, as a direct result, the regulated mod doesn't actually even receive enough volts from the batteries for the mod to be capable to draw that many amps from the batteries anyway in the first place. So it also depends on the capabilities of the mod... what kind of input voltage it needs in order for it to be capable to input dangerously high amps.

 

[Carambrda]

I don’t get it Bobnat ...why wouldn’t you want to write a guide though? if you know about a subject in detail it can only help other people if you share that in a coherent way, Including for those trying to do the “teaching”

A few of us have had a crack but they aren’t up to scratch it seems.

I tabled this idea a few weeks back to the mod team...reckon it’s got legs?

“We create a VU wicki area - and no one person can take credit for a topic as each is a community peice”

That’s the idea ......we have a wide knowledge base on this forum but it’s not all focused into a single end point,

As to how to go about doing it is the bone of contention for us right now as few of us forsee some obstacles; Couple of options could be

1) Lock the actual wicki post - mod team edits it from time to time with a new generic wicki type account. The information they take will be from a sandbox area where everyone gets to offer new info (This one will be a ballache for mods to manage though but is does keep out the troublemakers from ruining it for everyone else)

2) create a topic and have a way for users to edit the page, but we have to maintain a small level of control in case some asshole decides to corrupt that page. (I prefer this way but can’t see how we can do it with problems) maybe there is a request to submit box we introduce .... Mods review and accept or deny depending on if they look ok or not (as in no troll or innapropriate activity)

We would need to work out the specifics hell even use this idea as the first straw man, how do we do topics? how to build up a step by step guide as a foundation through to advanced? How do we control it?

I’d be more than happy to donate the few guides ive written to the cause. I really don’t care if my names up the top or not, never created them for self promotion, I just wanted the info in one place so I don’t have to keep re-writing the same thing

My suggestion would be to watch all of the YouTube video interviews with Mooch at least a couple times first. The amount of valuable info that Mooch has given in those videos is close to being astronomical... maybe we should sponsor him to write, or co-write, a well organized little textbook the aim of which would be to clear up all the confusions as thoroughly as possible and in such a way that it is still easy to understand for everyone.

 

[KingPin!]

My suggestion would be to watch all of the YouTube video interviews with Mooch at least a couple times first. The amount of valuable info that Mooch has given in those videos is close to being astronomical... maybe we should sponsor him to write, or co-write, a well organized little textbook the aim of which would be to clear up all the confusions as thoroughly as possible and in such a way that it is still easy to understand for everyone.

I agree Carambrda Mooch has and continues to be a very valuable asset to the vaping community

There is no reason we can’t create topics on VU though and link to pieces of information a lot of what mooch goes over is also on other knowledge areas as well HKJ is another battery expert for instance on the candle forums

All I’m saying between us as a community here I reckon we could do a bang up job of it and keep information up to date so it doesn’t all fall on the shoulders of a few people

 

[bobnat]

I don’t get it Bobnat ...why wouldn’t you want to write a guide though? if you know about a subject in detail it can only help other people if you share that in a coherent way, Including for those trying to do the “teaching”

A few of us have had a crack but they aren’t up to scratch it seems.

I tabled this idea a few weeks back to the mod team...reckon it’s got legs?

“We create a VU wicki area - and no one person can take credit for a topic as each is a community peice”

That’s the idea ......we have a wide knowledge base on this forum but it’s not all focused into a single end point,

As to how to go about doing it is the bone of contention for us right now as few of us forsee some obstacles; Couple of options could be

1) Lock the actual wicki post - mod team edits it from time to time with a new generic wicki type account. The information they take will be from a sandbox area where everyone gets to offer new info (This one will be a ballache for mods to manage though but is does keep out the troublemakers from ruining it for everyone else)

2) create a topic and have a way for users to edit the page, but we have to maintain a small level of control in case some asshole decides to corrupt that page. (I prefer this way but can’t see how we can do it with problems) maybe there is a request to submit box we introduce .... Mods review and accept or deny depending on if they look ok or not (as in no troll or innapropriate activity)

We would need to work out the specifics hell even use this idea as the first straw man, how do we do topics? how to build up a step by step guide as a foundation through to advanced? How do we control it?

I’d be more than happy to donate the few guides ive written to the cause. I really don’t care if my names up the top or not, never created them for self promotion, I just wanted the info in one place so I don’t have to keep re-writing the same thing

If I professed to have a lot of knowledge about batteries, and was interested in educating the masses, then I would. However, like any good teacher, I wouldn't insult those who need the education. I wouldn't get annoyed by those who challenge me or those who don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I wouldn't act like a self-appointed martyr who turns more people away from their message than they attract.

The only thing I know about batteries is where to buy them as well as how to tell if they're venting. I prefer to utilize my verbal masturbation on other topics.

 

[Carambrda]

Well, I have 2 Triade DNA250's with 4 Smok Cloud beast King tanks, using the duodenary coils. I usually vape around 90 to 115 watts and 200 to 220 degrees. I'm a fairly heavy vaper @ about 4-5 ml per day. My tank does get warm but not hot. I never feel heat from the batteries. I'm not sure if that info is sufficient for you to know if my 30Q's are a good choice for me. I honestly didn't give battery brand and/or type a thought except for requiring 18650's.

Because your mod uses three batteries, the 30Q would be fine performance wise at those kinds of wattages, albeit in this particular scenario the VTC6 would be a slightly better choice IMO because it would give you a little bit of extra runtime. The difference is small, but you would be enjoying this difference every day for a very long time so the little bit of a price difference would still be worth it IMO.

 

[Carambrda]

I agree Carambrda Mooch has and continues to be a very valuable asset to the vaping community

There is no reason we can’t create topics on VU though and link to pieces of information a lot of what mooch goes over is also on other knowledge areas as well HBK is another battery expert for instance on the candle forums

All I’m saying between us as a community here I reckon we could do a bang of job of it and keep information up to date so it doesn’t all fall on the shoulders of a few people

Sure, we can create topics. But I'm getting a wee bit tired of people posting all kinds of "information" that is too vague and or leaves a lot of room for confusion, or that actually even contradicts Mooch, plainly, and without there being added any proper argumentation whatsoever.

 

[Carambrda]

If I professed to have a lot of knowledge about batteries, and was interested in educating the masses, then I would. However, like any good teacher, I wouldn't insult those who need the education. I wouldn't get annoyed by those who challenge me or those who don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I wouldn't act like a self-appointed martyr who turns more people away from their message than they attract.

The only thing I know about batteries is where to buy them as well as how to tell if they're venting. I prefer to utilize my verbal masturbation on other topics.

I don't profess to have a lot of knowledge about batteries. Rather, I profess Mooch has a lot of knowledge about batteries. There's a difference.

 

[Drum71]

Because your mod uses three batteries, the 30Q would be fine performance wise at those kinds of wattages, albeit in this particular scenario the VTC6 would be a slightly better choice IMO because it would give you a little bit of extra runtime. The difference is small, but you would be enjoying this difference every day for a very long time so the little bit of a price difference would still be worth it IMO.

Well, I’ll have to stick with the 30Q’s. I’m sooo happy you said they were sufficient for me!

They were recommended with the Triade upon purchasing and, after my next shipment of batteries arrives, I’ll be the proud owner of 18 of them. 3 groups of 3, per mod. I never break up the groups and they are all labeled, e.g. Triade 1 group 2, Triade 2 group 3, etc. I have read enough to know it is best to do it like this but, honestly, I haven’t a clue why...

I ALWAYS use a Nitecore external charger, as recommended by the manufacturers of most mods I’ve looked at. I’m not sure why a mod company would recommend charging outside of their device except, the batteries, grouped together inside the enclosed mod, would collect alot of heat to possibly dangerous levels. Am I on the right track with that hypothesis?

 

[Drum71]

Sure, we can create topics. But I'm getting a wee bit tired of people posting all kinds of "information" that is too vague and or leaves a lot of room for confusion, or that actually even contradicts Mooch, plainly, and without there being added any proper argumentation whatsoever.

I agree with both Bobnat and you. You are here, messaging me and seemingly, giving me sound advice. You haven’t told me anything crazy or off the wall so that’s my conclusion, based on MY current knowledge.

Mooch does have alot of info, and I mean ALOT. I’m a “green” vaper and have ADHD. That’s an OVERWHELMING amount of info for me to go through, to answer questions I might find relevent. I might also miss something vital because I couldn’t ask a live person and get an answer.
So, in that way, I agree with Bobnat on having discussions.


I also agree with you that these discussions should be moderated or something to keep the bullshit from possibly endangering someone. I’m certainly not playin’ around with potentially explosive devices, and I feel everyone deserves an outlet to get safe and accurate information.
No one deserves to be maimed, or worse, because of some asshole know-it-all.

 

[Carambrda]

Well, I’ll have to stick with the 30Q’s. I’m sooo happy you said they were sufficient for me!

They were recommended with the Triade upon purchasing and, after my next shipment of batteries arrives, I’ll be the proud owner of 18 of them. 3 groups of 3, per mod. I never break up the groups and they are all labeled, e.g. Triade 1 group 2, Triade 2 group 3, etc. I have read enough to know it is best to do it like this but, honestly, I haven’t a clue why...

I ALWAYS use a Nitecore external charger, as recommended by the manufacturers of most mods I’ve looked at. I’m not sure why a mod company would recommend charging outside of their device except, the batteries, grouped together inside the enclosed mod, would collect alot of heat to possibly dangerous levels. Am I on the right track with that hypothesis?

There exists a concept called "battery marriage". It means you divide your batteries into groups when they're still unused batteries, and, if you always use them together as a group and you always charge them together as a group, they become a "married set". As a result they age virtually the same. But they're married to eachother, NOT married to a mod/device. So instead of naming them Triade 1 group 2, Triade 2 group 3, etc., you could simply name them group 2, group 3, etc. and just make sure each group gets roughly the same amount of usage. (Roughly = as long as one or more groups aren't used much more often nor used much less often than any other group, you'll still get the most out of them vs how fast they'll age from normal wear and tear.) But battery marriage with batteries that will only be used in a regulated mod that uses them in series configuration is highly overrated. Mooch does recommend battery marriage, but on YouTube he admitted he doesn't actually even follow his own advice. So as long as you don't mix together new and old batteries, you will be fine because the Triade is a mod that uses the batteries in series configuration.

Personally, I, don't actually even use married sets despite some of my mods are parallel/series. Instead, I just check the voltage of the batteries by using a multimeter after I pull the batteries out of the mod... I get to know the mod's discharge behavior that way, and, I also notice if something is not quite right. Mooch ran a huge test to find out the truth about battery marriage. He hasn't posted the results yet. https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...age-needed-or-not-testing-starts-soon.760633/ As for using an external charger, yes, just put the external charger on something like a ceramic tile because even an external charger can melt. But the more important reason why charging batteries inside a mod is not recommended is because it can potentially be dangerous as some mods tend to overcharge the batteries, and, even if yours doesn't, then yeah, all that extra heat buildup resulting from charging inside the mod still just can't be conducive in any way. I own not just one, but two Nitecore chargers so if one flakes out on me I can still continue to use the next. lol

 

[Drum71]

There exists a concept called "battery marriage". It means you divide your batteries into groups when they're still unused batteries, and, if you always use them together as a group and you always charge them together as a group, they become a "married set". As a result they age virtually the same. But they're married to eachother, NOT married to a mod/device. So instead of naming them Triade 1 group 2, Triade 2 group 3, etc., you could simply name them group 2, group 3, etc. and just make sure each group gets roughly the same amount of usage. (Roughly = as long as one or more groups aren't used much more often nor used much less often than any other group, you'll still get the most out of them vs how fast they'll age from normal wear and tear.) But battery marriage with batteries that will only be used in a regulated mod that uses them in series configuration is highly overrated. Mooch does recommend battery marriage, but on YouTube he admitted he doesn't actually even follow his own advice. So as long as you don't mix together new and old batteries, you will be fine because the Triade is a mod that uses the batteries in series configuration.

Personally, I, don't actually even use married sets despite some of my mods are parallel/series. Instead, I just check the voltage of the batteries by using a multimeter after I pull the batteries out of the mod... I get to know the mod's discharge behavior that way, and, I also notice if something is not quite right. Mooch ran a huge test to find out the truth about battery marriage. He hasn't posted the results yet. https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...age-needed-or-not-testing-starts-soon.760633/ As for using an external charger, yes, just put the external charger on something like a ceramic tile because even an external charger can melt. But the more important reason why charging batteries inside a mod is not recommended is because it can potentially be dangerous as some mods tend to overcharge the batteries, and, even if yours doesn't, then yeah, all that extra heat buildup resulting from charging inside the mod still just can't be conducive in any way. I own not just one, but two Nitecore chargers so if one flakes out on me I can still continue to use the next. lol

Awesome info! Thank you!

I will just buy multiple colors of battery wrap to group them then label the date of purchase, in that case. Then, I won’t have to hurt myself reading so much. lol


When you test your battery groups upon removal from the mod, are you looking to see if the mod is discharging one battery more/faster than the other(s)? If so, could that be a mod problem (even in series configuration) or strictly a bad/worn battery?

 

[Carambrda]

Awesome info! Thank you!

I will just buy multiple colors of battery wrap to group them then label the date of purchase, in that case. Then, I won’t have to hurt myself reading so much. lol


When you test your battery groups upon removal from the mod, are you looking to see if the mod is discharging one battery more/faster than the other(s)? If so, could that be a mod problem (even in series configuration) or strictly a bad/worn battery?

It could be a mod problem or dirty battery contacts or a bad battery, but small differences are normal because there's always at least some small differences in resistance between the individual battery contacts and in the wiring inside the mod, as well as differences caused by small imperfections in the batteries themselves (the battery manufacturing process).

I forgot to mention, in a married set of batteries the batteries need to be the same make and model, but that rule also applies even if you don't marry the batteries. Some say you also need to purchase them together and from the same batch, but the reality is that the vendors typically often get a mixed batch that contains different grades of batteries so the make and model is still the same for all of them, but due to there being different grades and you don't know what grade you're going to get, their performance may still vary one or two percent despite you bought them together from the same batch.