is it safe ????? the DIY debate

[wllmc]

Ok so I tend to nit pick things at times and break things down as small as I can, just pondering things for far to long. I will think about things so long nothing ever gets done lol. This has been on my mind for awhile and thought I would get the opinion of my peers. Y see this on every forum related to the topic. " Is this safe." Is caps custard safe, is V2 safe, is PG safe, is saline safe. Round and round the questions get asked over and over and over. Responses change like seasons. Recently my response has been that it is safe as anything else we are vaping. I ask this question because what are we comparing its safety against? A poke in the eye with a stick? Are we comparing it to getting eaten by a tiger ? I am not trying to be a smart ass but really. What are we comparing it to ? I think its very misleading to new vapers in general when the question is asked is it safe. I know there is very rapid progress in favor of vaping and thats very exciting for all of us. But I have not read anything to date that has convinced me that inhaling liquid vapor into my lungs is without any harm whatsoever and is safe.

Some examples that make me cringe are " is PG safe?" either you get no its antifreeze or you get hell yes it is, it is used in inhalers and nebulizers etc etc. my wife has very bad asthma. she has a daily inhaler , an emergency inhaler and takes a pill every day. In a full day she toots her little inhaler a few times a day. Thats one little puff every 6 hours or whatever to deliver a life saving medicine into her lungs. I on the the other hand inhale PG almost non stop every minute my eyes are open to deliver nicotine and flavoring into my lungs. You can not honestly compare the two. Another one is the "custard notes" We know about the factory workers and popcorn lung. The only reason we know of this is because of what happened to factory workers after inhaling the concentrated flavoring for so it caused damage. It was not discovered by 30 custard vapers dying. Ok so the answer is lets use something less tested and we can all call it safe. What if vaping passion fruit for years on end will turn you into the Jolly Green Giant? I know you are rolling your eyes but really !!!!!! we say for instance "X" brand passion fruit is "Safe to inhale" . How the heck do we honestly tell people with a straight face we know this flavoring is safe. We assume it because no big stories have come out other places. That can be said about anything vape related. VG/PG , flavoring, saline, DW, vspe wizard, smooth, sweeteners lol pick one.

Without going on and on you get my point. I really think there needs to be some other word or reference we use when referring to how "Safe" inhaling liquid into our lungs is. Obviously I am a big supporter of vaping and this post is not intended to be negative in any way. I believe 100% vaping is far less harmful than smoking. I will never smoke another cigarette again and I owe it all to vaping and you people. amazing support group you guys are. like I said I just way over think things. Safety is a big part of my job and its always on my mind. I hold a safety briefing every monday morning at 7 am if anyone wants to come join in lol. Maybe that is why I take the word "Safe" very literal. If I do not provide my crews with the knowledge and equipment to do a job safely the end result is never good. I think in addition to helping new mixers/vapers and giving our opinions that we remind them none of this is 100% proven to be safe and without harm. harm reduction yes, safe-ER alternative yes. ..... Safe? I guess thats how literal you use the word safe.

So am I just way over thinking this or dead wrong ? What do you guys say about vaping being "SAFE". Its not so bad here but I do lurk several other forums and vape related sites and its so annoying to see the word safe so easily thrown around.

 

[Thunderball]

I can only speak for me personally and the side effects that I've experienced .

Does vaping put an opaque coating on your windshield ? Yes it does.....,, so common sense tells me it's coating your lungs . Is this safe? I doubt it.

I've had sensitivity issues to my lips ever since I started vaping. They have been in a state of healing and getting broken down ever since I started . Is this safe ? I doubt it.

I'm 55 years old and have not had pimples since high school..,,,, until I started to vape. Is this safe ? I doubt it.

I know too many people that have allergic reactions of different sorts due to pg. Is this safe ! I doubt it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chickenmonkey]

I personally believe that vaping is a safer alternative to smoking tobacco. I am also asthmatic and since I started vaping instead of smoking I haven't needed to use my inhalers from about one month after the switch. I also do not need to take cholesterol medication, as my levels are now perfect. I do not believe that vaping is 100% safe. But I am so thankful that I do not smoke any more I didn't think that I would ever quit. As far as as diacetyl is concerned I will have a bit every now and then. In moderation is my motto. I know that I can breathe much better since the switch.

 

[Ld3441]

Agree 100%.
Safer alternative yes but can't say it is safe.
Well said!

 

[Thunderball]

We all breath better and we all quit smoking. But most are reluctant to bring up the unknown long term disadvantages and I think this may be the spirit of wills thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wllmc]

my health has also benefited from switching to vaping. @Thunderball made some good points also. and yes thats more where I am leaning with this. not that there are not obvious benefits but its those things no one wants to talk about or how things get manipulated like the PG thing. you seriously cant compare a way to deliver very small amounts of medicine into the lungs VS chain vaping all day. thats just silly to think people use this as a reason to say its safe. there are so many smoke and mirrors in vaping its hard for the new guys to read between the lines. when I started vaping I thought oh this is totally safe. then I got into it and was like wow whoa what? I have to watch out for what ? antifreeze what ? . what would be wrong with honesty in vaping lol. yes you feel better, yes its a far better alternative but can we call it safe.

 

[Thunderball]

How many times has your throat hurt from vaping when over vaping, when vaping custards, when sub ohming , when testing different flavors, when going outside of " your personal PG/VG percentage ?

I'm gonna quit saying is this safe ? I doubt it. LOL .., I sound like an ass, but these are all things I have often pondered as well and like to push back in my mind and not think about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wllmc]

yup, runny nose like a faucet. I exhale so much water my mustache and beard get moist . that just came out of my lungs lol. how about dry hits. or over soaked wick and you inhale straight un vaporized liquid. or ya rough throat or upset stomach. there are vapes that give me heartburn ! lol . Id rather vape custard a get a sore throat than vape pineapple and get heartburn lol. that cant be good. I just think we need to take out the word safe and replace it for something more honest.

 

[wllmc]

its like this god awful commercial I seen for the new next big medicine. side affects may include. runny nose, itching, sneezing, coughing, upset stomach, dry skin, heartburn , popcorn lung or even death. then you are like no way man Im not taking those pills. except I just listed the side affects of vaping. but when someone new is here or you are talking to people on the street and the question is asked the answer is always hell yes it is safe. have a toot. I cant believe I am not allowed to vape in this hospital .

 

[Thunderball]

Good point Wllmc.

Just a passing thought .....
Smoking, drinking, drugs, sex , music , eating , concentration on any given personal passion and vaping are All relaxation choices. They all have their pros and cons.

( the con for sex is that it doesn't last long enough and you can't drop everything your doing and " go at it" with anyone you meet on the street without getting locked up or worse)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Thunderball]

PS..... Any female Vapers that feel they can prove me wrong about my last sentence gets free juice for life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ld3441]

LOL @Thunderball !!
If it doesn't last long enough for you, you are doing something wrong.
I don't think I'd "go at it" with someone met on the street but then I imagine there are many guys that would.

 

[Ld3441]

Do I get juice? LOL

 

[Thunderball]

LOL @Thunderball !!
If it doesn't last long enough for you, you are doing something wrong.
I don't think I'd "go at it" with someone met on the street but then I imagine there are many guys that would.

When I say long enough, I'm talking about closing the door on a Friday and coming out the following Wednesday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ld3441]

Yea, work gets in the way of lots of things.

 

[Thunderball]

Do I get juice? LOL

We would have to meet on the street. .




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ld3441]

Could probably happen in the spring.

 

[Thunderball]

Will, sex sells. Make a slight name change to this thread and see it fill up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wllmc]

Will, sex sells. Make a slight name change to this thread and see it fill up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lmao right ! thats why suicide bunnies sells so well. boobies.

 

[wllmc]

maybe Ill sell juice and put a picture of my beard on it and do floral vapes for them older ladies, @HeadInClouds . hahah cross thread.

 

[glassgrl]

I think the word safe is misleading, safer is better. Better than inhaling burning plant matter and all those f-d up chemicals made for addiction. There's not really a word to describe how one thing many not be right for everyone. Some people have sensitivities to certain compounds and some people don't. I mean just look at all the flavorings...what tastes good to one person, won't to the next guy. Some people can taste diacetyl and some can't. Not to sound tree-huggerish but it's a personal journey.
I'd never tell someone that vaping is safe but I'll tell them it's safer all day long.

 

[Thunderball]

Panty dropper tastes line shit to me..... But when it came out, people lined up at vape shows and bought the hell out if that one.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Thunderball]

I think the word safe is misleading, safer is better. Better than inhaling burning plant matter and all those f-d up chemicals made for addiction. There's not really a word to describe how one thing many not be right for everyone. Some people have sensitivities to certain compounds and some people don't. I mean just look at all the flavorings...what tastes good to one person, won't to the next guy. Some people can taste diacetyl and some can't. Not to sound tree-huggerish but it's a personal journey.
I'd never tell someone that vaping is safe but I'll tell them it's safer all day long.

At this point in time I would whole heartedly agree with this .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[glassgrl]

Panty dropper tastes line shit to me..... But when it came out, people lined up at vape shows and bought the hell out if that one.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Panty dropper?? lol

 

[Thunderball]

Panty dropper?? lol

Lol .,.. virtue vapes ( makes it even funnier huh? )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HeadInClouds]

( the con for sex is that it doesn't last long enough ...

Buddy, there's a medicine for that. Don't ask about the side effects, though.

 

[Ld3441]

And how many buying that actually think it works? LOL
All you need is a good name to make it big?

Panty dropper tastes line shit to me..... But when it came out, people lined up at vape shows and bought the hell out if that one.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Thunderball]

Buddy, there's a medicine for that. Don't ask about the side effects, though.

This ^^^ in a nutshell is proof that some things are worth the side effects.... ( he says as he rubs his aching eyeballs and takes another ibuprofen )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[glassgrl]

At this point in time I would whole heartedly agree with this .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I get what you mean by this point in time. I don't mind being a guinea pig...besides, I'd be shocked as hell if something that made me feel this much better ended up being worse (or even on par) than smoking. Vaping is pretty much my last vice, don't smoke, don't drink much, just don't take my nic away.

 

[Thunderball]

Could probably happen in the spring.

What day does spring begin? Lol

One track male mind ..... I'm so typical .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ld3441]

LOL
When it is warmer.
I don't go north until then.

 

[HeadInClouds]

Anyone who switched to vaping after decades of smoking can tell you there are immediate, observable, quantifiable health benefits -- in the short term.

Long-term effects are simply unknown. They will be debated as we (first-generation vapers) grow older. If we all die of lung diease, some experts will blame vaping; others will blame earlier smoking. Experts will spout off for/against vaping (often depending on their source of funding) until then.

Some components have known long-term hazards and can be avoided while still vaping. Some components are suspected of long-term risks and can be avoided, too. The more you learn about biochemistry of lung tissue, the better unflavored liquid begins to look for minimizing potential long-term harm.

 

[Iamme]

I always use the term safer alternative. Do I think it is 100% safe? No, Nic is a stimulant. It can cause other issues. Comparing the VG and PG we inhale to smoke, well, I think it's a no brainer. Inhaling anything into your lungs probably isn't 100% healthy. Neither is half the stuff in the air we inhale everyday. The dust and everything else in the air of our house isn't safe. Do I think we're going to get cancer from it? No. Emphysema? Probably not, but I'm sure it could cause clogging or build up in arteries in some people over time. So will mountain dew and coffee. I don't really care in the end. I know smoking was going to kill me. 29 years old and 10 steps in my house felt like a marathon. Now I'm 32 and I can run. I think my lungs are doing ok. Besides walyworld vg says it will preserve all kinds of stuff. If nothing else my lungs will look great and could make one hell of a morbid mantle decoration for someone.

 

[Thunderball]

I truly feel your safer vaping than going to a movie theater and taking in all those heavy fake butter particles that fill the air and then of course you eat it as well.

I'm not joking about this either.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Thunderball]

@lamme I like the term safer alternative .

The Chinese sites make me chuckle with " health keeping set"


@Hic...... You always word things well .




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wllmc]

this forum like I said all understand it and not really a problem here. I read all over the place and it seems there are just a lot of people that wont admit to the unknown and really push this its totally safe thing. I was in a vape shop in security colorado . and they guy was trying hard to sell stuff. telling me his liquid was FDA approved and this and that and blah blah. I just smiled and said a was just there to look. Its good for us to bring these things up to keep it fresh and not swept under the rug and the next round of vapors start this cycle all over again .......... im all about it I'll guinea pig until I cant lol. we should just let people know that also.

 

[UncleRJ]

I do believe it is safer.

But I can guarantee you it is much quieter than smoking.

I can no longer hear my wife bitching at me!

 

[Roger Schaeffer]

Anyone who switched to vaping after decades of smoking can tell you there are immediate, observable, quantifiable health benefits -- in the short term.

Long-term effects are simply unknown. They will be debated as we (first-generation vapers) grow older. If we all die of lung diease, some experts will blame vaping; others will blame earlier smoking. Experts will spout off for/against vaping (often depending on their source of funding) until then.

Some components have known long-term hazards and can be avoided while still vaping. Some components are suspected of long-term risks and can be avoided, too. The more you learn about biochemistry of lung tissue, the better unflavored liquid begins to look for minimizing potential long-term harm.

This is why I Vape 24 mg E Liquid.I don't have to inhale as much Vaper or as deep into my lungs to get my nic fix. Anyways I hear Nicotine in Vapor is better absorbed by the lining of the mouth and nasal passage[exhaling] so no clouds for me.

 

[Vaperstek]

I have been vaping like a few here for some years. close to 5 about now I would imagine, and I must say that I feel great. I notice that sometimes I get an aching heaviness in my chest, but not really sure where it comes from as I had it even when I was a smoker.
I as well see the "HAZE" which develops on my windshield from vaping, but I also see that water which i drink daily causes metal to rust.

I see vaping as the lesser of 2 evils. only because the optimum quality of life would be to not have to add anything into our systems, but alas we do. Pg and VG being humectants from what i know actually pull moisture out of our systems so basically little to no risk of getting pneumonia, unless you vape flavoring "OILS". and people on oxygen also get this drying out of mucous membranes.

As far as metal poisoning from coils, I would look up welders lung health, lord knows they inhale more of it over a lifetime, or even 5 years what vaping probably gives us from coils over the rest of our lifetime.

I believe it is safer, much safer, than combustion to get our nicotine. and my all inclusive statement..

" I believe one gets more pollutants and contaminants walking down a busy street from car exhaust than one would get from a month of vaping"

Great thread wllmc and great responses,.

 

[Iamme]

I can guarantee you it is much quieter than smoking.

I can no longer here my wife bitching at me!

You nailed it with 100% accuracy, my friend.




I'm on tapatalk it's hard to see. Is that Grandpa Munster in your AVI?

 

[Talon4x4]

A thought on diacetyl and no, I'm not saying its safe but....

It is my understanding that diacetyl is found in cigarettes and at a much higher concentration than what is found in many e-liquids. So, with that being said have you ever heard of a cigarette smoker getting popcorn lung?? I haven't, so why the worry that a e-cigarette user will get it. Yes it was proven to be bad for you but people always refer back to the factory workers that were breathing in obscene amounts in a factory setting for years. Are the two really comparable?!

And when people say, is it safe. I always think of it as a comparison to cigarette smoking. But who knows if that is how other people are thinking when they ask the question.

Very good post @wllmc I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the subject.

 

[ClaireW]

Buddy, there's a medicine for that. Don't ask about the side effects, though.

but is it safe?

 

[HeadInClouds]

A thought on diacetyl and no, I'm not saying its safe but....

<waving hand in the air> oh, oh, can I complete that sentence?!

...but it's just not necessary for awesome vapes.

 

[Time]

Is it safe? No. Water will kill you if you breathe in large quantities. Steam, not so much.

Our bodies are remarkably resilient. We breathe all kinds of molecules into our lungs, including radioactive ones, 24-7.

The question is, how much is too much. At this time there is no definitive answer. As a welder, I went years huffing weld smoke with lots and lots of particles in it. Literally coughing up black slime. I don't cough up yellowish slime vaping raspberry cheesecake ejuice all day.

It's a choice.

 

[Whiskey]

PS..... Any female Vapers that feel they can prove me wrong about my last sentence gets free juice for life.

LOL @Thunderball !!
If it doesn't last long enough for you, you are doing something wrong.
I don't think I'd "go at it" with someone met on the street but then I imagine there are many guys that would.

Do I get juice? LOL

When I say long enough, I'm talking about closing the door on a Friday and coming out the following Wednesday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

 

[Hermit]

I've wondered for a while if the risks from flavourings etc (whatever they might be) are different for those who lung inhale vs mouth-to-lung inhalers. I'm a mouth-to-lunger, but I'm trying to modify my habits so I don't inhale as deeply as I did when I smoked. That's gotta help, right?

Nicotine suppresses the motions of the scilia that help clear our lungs. That can explain still having something of a morning cough, after not vaping for those hours. I get that sometimes, but TBH it's just an unscented watery blob these days - quite the opposite of a smoker's. Even so, I wonder how resiliant our lungs are while we still suppress the cleaning mechanism, not 100% that's for sure.

I originally planned on vaping for 1 to 2 years. Theoretically that's ample time to wean off nicotine. From all I've learnt so far (even including most of the scare stories) that length of time would be highly unlikely to adversly affect most people's health in any significant way. And I think that holds true even compared to cold turkey quitting, let alone compared to smoking. But... I've found I like the nicotine even more now, without the other crap. My intention to keep reducing nic levels has stalled for a good few months now. Pondering issues about long-term vaping has my attention!

 

[RyGon]

A thought on diacetyl and no, I'm not saying its safe but....

It is my understanding that diacetyl is found in cigarettes and at a much higher concentration than what is found in many e-liquids. So, with that being said have you ever heard of a cigarette smoker getting popcorn lung?? I haven't, so why the worry that a e-cigarette user will get it. Yes it was proven to be bad for you but people always refer back to the factory workers that were breathing in obscene amounts in a factory setting for years. Are the two really comparable?!

And when people say, is it safe. I always think of it as a comparison to cigarette smoking. But who knows if that is how other people are thinking when they ask the question.

Very good post @wllmc I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the subject.

Dr. Farsalinos has addressed this point. He said that the symptoms of "popcorn lung" would be diagnosed as COPD when the patient is known to be a smoker.

 

[Talon4x4]

Dr. Farsalinos has addressed this point. He said that the symptoms of "popcorn lung" would be diagnosed as COPD when the patient is known to be a smoker.

Interesting. Thank you for that clarification.

 

[2ndInCommand]

I think we all have a slightly different view on the safety thing. For example, I agree with HIC as far as short term feel Much better vs long term unknowns. However I disagree as far as the custard notes, the yummy, yummy custard notes. I just don't really care very much if they are in some of my vapes, as long as I know about it and have some type of alternative if I don't want them. I figure if the GOVERNMENT wants to shut me down, I must be doing something right. Therefore, vaping is better than smoking we can all agree. I love the fact that this is a way for us to keep the man down for a change. It's safer for us all not to give extra tax dollars to Washington to do who knows what with as well.

 

[Jimi D]

My wife vaped 2% lorann's cream cheese icing for about a year. She started waking up hacking but nothing would come up. Since then, she's vaping diacetyl free juice. The hacking has disappeared. The bottle went into the trash. If I notice coil gunking at a fast rate. I stop using that flavor. I feel good from quitting smoking. Will vaping prolong my life ? Probably not. I smoked for 25 years. All I can do is just use common sense. If it doesn't feel right, leave it alone.