is it safe ????? the DIY debate

[2ndInCommand]

Funny you say that jimi ,I've been hacking a bit lately,been vaping for like a year. Thought it was from my PAX but maybe your onto something or it could just be cold as fuck out!

 

[RyGon]

My wife vaped 2% lorann's cream cheese icing for about a year. She started waking up hacking but nothing would come up. Since then, she's vaping diacetyl free juice. The hacking has disappeared. The bottle went into the trash. If I notice coil gunking at a fast rate. I stop using that flavor. I feel good from quitting smoking. Will vaping prolong my life ? Probably not. I smoked for 25 years. All I can do is just use common sense. If it doesn't feel right, leave it alone.

Sounds reasonable, if you can be happy with juices that don't gunk your coils thats probably a better choice.

 

[ClaireW]

to respond the original post. I too hear its in anti freeze or its safe cause its in inhalers. I don't typically get in debates with those telling me I'm vaping anti freeze. cause more than likely their kids are sniffing the air conditioner shit.

But to educate those who are looking to stop smoking tobacco -- I will point out that I smoked at least 1 pack a day or more at times for 32 yrs. and that I have not had tobacco for 18 months now. physically I feel better. I do not have a smokers cough. my lungs feel good. I can smell & taste things now. I think I smell better. My house, my fingernails & anything else around me is no0 longer yellow. In fact I had a small skin tag under my arm that disappeared by itself 6 months after I stopped tobacco. If you want to be educated I will offer my experience.

here's my theory - which is how I look at most things I do now. Do it In moderation. I wouldn't have said that yrs ago. I did not know what moderation meant. What is moderation? each person is diff. for me I listen to my body now. and I no longer fall off my bike into bushes! LOL wait that was a diff addiction

I read articles about coffee not being safe but in moderation it is ok/ safe
or the food we buy in a chain supermarket probably is not safe
I have an 85 yr old aunt that been saying "eat what you grow" for many many moons. maybe why she is healthy at her age.
smoke what we grow?

I personally use less & less flavor but my taste buds have gotten use to it. Less nic. but I do chain vape 24/7. I stay away from what we are told are harmful chemicals in the flavors.

Is higher wattage worse? or make it less safe to vape?
for me I use a 1.5-ish ohm coil on a Vamo at no more than 8watts usually
or a Ego battery

I don't like the word safe - but I do know its better than a pack+ a day of tobacco

if my friends who have been vaping longer than me start growing 3 eyes - I might have to rethink things.
In the meantime I will continue to educate myself.

Thanks Wllmc!

 

[AmandaD]

Totally agree with the above. For me, it's harm reduction after 40 years of smoking a pack a day. Would I be pleased if my nonsmoking 17-year old took up vaping? Absolutely not - in fact I won't even let her test my mixes (she asked once). I'm not sure what I'd do if I thought she was at risk for smoking, but obviously I think vaping is the lesser of two evils.

 

[MD_Boater]

I have mixed emotions about this question. There are a lot of vapers that have been vaping heavily since eCigs were invented. That is about 7 years. So far, we have not heard of one person getting ill from vaping. That person, if they exist, is the one that the FDA, ALA, the ANTZ, and every other alphabet soup agency or advocacy group has been looking for. If he or she exists, we WILL know their name the same day that they are diagnosed. This person is the holy grail of the anti vaping community.

• We know for sure that long term inhalation of nicotine at acceptable levels is not harmful.
• The effects of inhaling PG vapor have been studied for decades, and there are no harmful effects.
• The effects of inhaling VG vapor have not been studied as fully as PG, but there haven't been any serious claims that inhaling VG vapor is bad for you. From what I can tell, the scientific community believes that that VG is so inherently safe, and that the human body processes it so easily and efficiently, they won't even bother to study it any further.

The film on the windshield must be VG. I believe that the heaviness in the lungs is also the VG. Vaping VG simply turns the liquid VG into droplets which probably turn back into liquid VG when the droplets come into contact with each other when you inhale them. This causes the heavy feeling some experience. Chemically, the VG liquid in your lungs and throat is safe. Obviously, too much of any liquid in your lungs is not good. This is why I have not considered heading in the max VG direction. I just think that it would not be good for me.

I'm conflicted on the diacetyl issue. Regular cigarettes have it in them, but we know that smoking kills. The diacetyl may be a contributing factor in that (or a major one, or the actual reason). There are so many bad things in cigarette smoke that I don't think that even the people who have been studying it can say for certain which compounds, or combinations of, are actually doing the killing. Maybe all of them. The popcorn factory folks were in a completely non comparable situation from vapers. They had exposure to much higher concentrations for much longer periods of time. There aren't many people on the planet that will experience similar levels of exposure. What we really haven't seen is people getting diacetyl poisoning (or whatever the disease would be) from vaping, or other exposures to diacetyl. In 30 years, we may just find that vaping diketones has no impact at all since all of the molecules are suspended in VG and simply don't manage to get as deep into lung tissue as it does when you inhale them in steam, or in a cloud of dry powder. Of course, we may find that vaping 2ml per month of eliquid containing diketones is lethal after 30 years. We probably will not ever know for sure. 99% of all vapers' health has already been impacted to some degree by smoking prior to when they started to vape. To be able to accurately determine the effects of vaping diketones, we would need to test by having someone who has never smoked vape diketone laden juice for a couple of years before we would be able to get a clean test.

I honestly believe that vaping unflavored (PG/VG/Nicotine) is 100% safe if the ingredients are not contaminated. I believe that vaping flavors that have no diketones is about 95-99% safe, and I believe that vaping flavors with diketones is probably in the ball park of 80-90% safe (unless you sub ohm an ounce of it every day for years on end). I believe that DIY is somewhat safer than B&M eliquid solely because the mixer is also the user, and we are generally more careful making things that we intend to consume ourselves.

I am 50 years old, and I smoked for just shy of 30 years. I have been a non smoker for 54 weeks now. I could feel the effects of my smoking, and I have no doubt that I was going to have a smoking related illness at some point down the road if I did not stop. In my one year of vaping, I feel so much better that I no longer believe I will die because I smoke(d). If vaping causes me any negative health effects, I'm fairly confident that it will be 2 decades or more before that happens, as I consume less than 4 ml on any given day. At 70, that should be the least of my worries.

100% safe? Probably not. More than 80% safe? I believe that to be the case. DIY safer than pre-made? Most likely.

 

[wally]

I do believe it is safer.

But I can guarantee you it is much quieter than smoking.

I can no longer hear my wife bitching at me!

Totally agreed lol I now live in much more peace...

 

[wllmc]

I have mixed emotions about this question. There are a lot of vapers that have been vaping heavily since eCigs were invented. That is about 7 years. So far, we have not heard of one person getting ill from vaping. That person, if they exist, is the one that the FDA, ALA, the ANTZ, and every other alphabet soup agency or advocacy group has been looking for. If he or she exists, we WILL know their name the same day that they are diagnosed. This person is the holy grail of the anti vaping community.

• We know for sure that long term inhalation of nicotine at acceptable levels is not harmful.
• The effects of inhaling PG vapor have been studied for decades, and there are no harmful effects.
• The effects of inhaling VG vapor have not been studied as fully as PG, but there haven't been any serious claims that inhaling VG vapor is bad for you. From what I can tell, the scientific community believes that that VG is so inherently safe, and that the human body processes it so easily and efficiently, they won't even bother to study it any further.

The film on the windshield must be VG. I believe that the heaviness in the lungs is also the VG. Vaping VG simply turns the liquid VG into droplets which probably turn back into liquid VG when the droplets come into contact with each other when you inhale them. This causes the heavy feeling some experience. Chemically, the VG liquid in your lungs and throat is safe. Obviously, too much of any liquid in your lungs is not good. This is why I have not considered heading in the max VG direction. I just think that it would not be good for me.

I'm conflicted on the diacetyl issue. Regular cigarettes have it in them, but we know that smoking kills. The diacetyl may be a contributing factor in that (or a major one, or the actual reason). There are so many bad things in cigarette smoke that I don't think that even the people who have been studying it can say for certain which compounds, or combinations of, are actually doing the killing. Maybe all of them. The popcorn factory folks were in a completely non comparable situation from vapers. They had exposure to much higher concentrations for much longer periods of time. There aren't many people on the planet that will experience similar levels of exposure. What we really haven't seen is people getting diacetyl poisoning (or whatever the disease would be) from vaping, or other exposures to diacetyl. In 30 years, we may just find that vaping diketones has no impact at all since all of the molecules are suspended in VG and simply don't manage to get as deep into lung tissue as it does when you inhale them in steam, or in a cloud of dry powder. Of course, we may find that vaping 2ml per month of eliquid containing diketones is lethal after 30 years. We probably will not ever know for sure. 99% of all vapers' health has already been impacted to some degree by smoking prior to when they started to vape. To be able to accurately determine the effects of vaping diketones, we would need to test by having someone who has never smoked vape diketone laden juice for a couple of years before we would be able to get a clean test.

I honestly believe that vaping unflavored (PG/VG/Nicotine) is 100% safe if the ingredients are not contaminated. I believe that vaping flavors that have no diketones is about 95-99% safe, and I believe that vaping flavors with diketones is probably in the ball park of 80-90% safe (unless you sub ohm an ounce of it every day for years on end). I believe that DIY is somewhat safer than B&M eliquid solely because the mixer is also the user, and we are generally more careful making things that we intend to consume ourselves.

I am 50 years old, and I smoked for just shy of 30 years. I have been a non smoker for 54 weeks now. I could feel the effects of my smoking, and I have no doubt that I was going to have a smoking related illness at some point down the road if I did not stop. In my one year of vaping, I feel so much better that I no longer believe I will die because I smoke. If vaping causes me any negative health effects, I'm fairly confident that it will be 2 decades or more before that happens, as I consume less than 4 ml on any given day. At 70, that should be the least of my worries.

100% safe? Probably not. More than 80% safe? I believe that to be the case. DIY safer than pre-made? Most likely.

well said

 

[The Vape Space]

I DIYed out of necessity for a long time, and still do for fun. While I do agree, MD_Boater, that the incentive lies with safety, I will say that when I was DIYing without testing I was producing things with diketones without knowing it. Ingredients would catalyze into them, because optimal cooking relies on making the conditions such. I will say that many DIYers are very smart about the percentages they make their juices at to minimize their risk, and that I am not the sole indicator. But the only way to be certain when you are putting flavoring into a juice that it does not contain diketones, is testing that batch, it was a wake up call I received when I started producing e-juice for the market.

 

[Emilie]

All I can say is that I live backed up to a freeway and the back of my garage is coated in black soot.

Is vaping perfectly safe? I doubt it. Safer than living next to this freeway (I haven't seen any warnings against it)? I guarantee it.

 

[wllmc]

All I can say is that I live backed up to a freeway and the back of my garage is coated in black soot.

Is vaping perfectly safe? I doubt it. Safer than living next to this freeway (I haven't seen any warnings against it)? I guarantee it.

no one is advertizing that living backed up to a freeway or inhaling soot is safe. ........ thats my point lets say someone did I would also have something to say about that but I think we all pretty much know what happens when you run a car in a garage and its advised against. ................... hell if we are concerned with only what advertises well we just may as well smoke again.because a half pack a day is better than a full pack. a little bit of popcorn lung is ok. we wont talk about it though.

 

[The Vape Space]

Nothing is perfectly safe, it's about minimizing risks... Diketones are a risk to curb.

 

[freemind]

You know, this is a great thread. I understand and share concerns of safety.

If the issue is just revolving around the word safe, as to mean absolutely no chance of ANY type of harm, well NOTHING is risk free. I think others have already pointed as much out, amply. Moving about in your own home poses risks. Driving poses risks.

I see no reason why vaping should NOT be labeled as "safe", because it is. No evidence supports anything to the contrary, and any "studies" or quisling ideas brought up by anti's are just straw man arguments. I don't think kids or teens should be using nic, but no reason why adults shouldn't if they want to.

You can buy caffeine in concentrated pill form. You can buy broncio dilators over the counter, that also speed up your heart. Both can kill you in high enough concentrations. Caffeine like nicotine, can make you sick as sheet if you take WAY too much. (Ask me how I know!)

I think the self regulation of the industry by testing and keeping out potentially harmful additives/chemicals is GREAT.

 

[Emilie]

no one is advertizing that living backed up to a freeway or inhaling soot is safe. ........ thats my point lets say someone did I would also have something to say about that but I think we all pretty much know what happens when you run a car in a garage and its advised against. ................... hell if we are concerned with only what advertises well we just may as well smoke again.because a half pack a day is better than a full pack. a little bit of popcorn lung is ok. we wont talk about it though.

I guess I should have mentioned also that I try to vape the "safest" flavors we know of. I've never considered vaping to be 100% safe, but I'm pretty sure it's harm-reduction, and I'm okay with that.

I don't vape anything with any *known* harmful diketones. I'm just waiting for the day that they say my FA Fresh Cream and FA Vanilla Classic are harmful. I'm sure I'll cut those out if they turn out to be known to cause popcorn lung, too.

 

[Emilie]

no one is advertizing that living backed up to a freeway or inhaling soot is safe. ........ thats my point lets say someone did I would also have something to say about that but I think we all pretty much know what happens when you run a car in a garage and its advised against. ................... hell if we are concerned with only what advertises well we just may as well smoke again.because a half pack a day is better than a full pack. a little bit of popcorn lung is ok. we wont talk about it though.

It just dawned on me what your point has been all along.

No, these should be advertized as harm-reduction, not 100% safe.

 

[wllmc]

It just dawned on me what your point has been all along.

No, these should be advertized as harm-reduction, not 100% safe.

that was the purpose kinda of my is it safe thread. somehow it got turned into something else along the way lol. anyways I see it to often other places also. no so much here but on facebook and reddit and random local vape shops. I went to a vape shop and the guy didnt even know how to put a battery in a mech mod or what direction it was supposed to go. another place told me all the juice they sold was FDA certified and approved. vaping is not safe and without harm. there is waaaaaay to much bad information out there. kinda scary.

 

[Hobby Kid]

that was the purpose kinda of my is it safe thread. somehow it got turned into something else along the way lol. anyways I see it to often other places also. no so much here but on facebook and reddit and random local vape shops. I went to a vape shop and the guy didnt even know how to put a battery in a mech mod or what direction it was supposed to go. another place told me all the juice they sold was FDA certified and approved. vaping is not safe and without harm. there is waaaaaay to much bad information out there. kinda scary.

Tell me about it. I was walking through the mall yesterday and there was this young hottie in very tight leggings standing behind a table selling VIP ecig gear and as I looked she asked if there was anything she could help me with. I know from experience of them she won't be able to, not with vape gear anyway. Whatever I've asked in the past they always replied I'd have to wait for the manager because he knows it all. Obviously he doesn't know to be there.

 

[freemind]

that was the purpose kinda of my is it safe thread. somehow it got turned into something else along the way lol. anyways I see it to often other places also. no so much here but on facebook and reddit and random local vape shops. I went to a vape shop and the guy didnt even know how to put a battery in a mech mod or what direction it was supposed to go. another place told me all the juice they sold was FDA certified and approved. vaping is not safe and without harm. there is waaaaaay to much bad information out there. kinda scary.

If it's not safe, why do you bother to even make your own juice?

I say that with a bit of sarcasm. You make it sound, from the way you said that, as if it's on par with smoking. Eating NutraSweet has risks of cancer, according to studies. It's not regulated though, and the FDA isn't on a mission with it, unlike vaping.

I think anyone who really thinks there are risks from vaping, are buying too much into it. People are rushing to judge far too fast. Studies just now are being conducted, and these are not yet or for some time, going to tell us LONG TERM effects from vaping. I suspect that unless someone does the studies with an agenda, nothing is going to come of it.

 

[wllmc]

If it's not safe, why do you bother to even make your own juice?

I say that with a bit of sarcasm. You make it sound, from the way you said that, as if it's on par with smoking. Eating NutraSweet has risks of cancer, according to studies. It's not regulated though, and the FDA isn't on a mission with it, unlike vaping.

I think anyone who really thinks there are risks from vaping, are buying too much into it. People are rushing to judge far too fast. Studies just now are being conducted, and these are not yet or for some time, going to tell us LONG TERM effects from vaping. I suspect that unless someone does the studies with an agenda, nothing is going to come of it.

if you only look at the part in bold then ya I see your point. if you look at the entire thing you quoted its a different story. I DIY my own juice because there are assholes out there that say the juice they sell is FDA approved and certified. there are idiots selling mods that do not know how to put a battery in. if you take little pieces of what I am saying and try to twist it for debate or to throw your 2 cents in I suggest using everything I have said

 

[wllmc]

and still vaping is harm reduction. let me know when its safe

 

[Smoky Blue]

and yet another part to consider..

how hot your vaping temp is versus the flavoring..
can a hotter vape make bad chemical reactions too?

 

[freemind]

and still vaping is harm reduction. let me know when its safe

Please show me evidence that it's not.

 

[freemind]

and yet another part to consider..

how hot your vaping temp is versus the flavoring..
can a hotter vape make bad chemical reactions too?

It's something we should find out (and the study is being conducted). But I'm not going to assume anything yet.

 

[wllmc]

here is the point of the entire thread in a couple sentences. lets us as veterans promote accurate information so that new vapers are not mislead into thinking there are no risk in vaping. just because it seems like common sense there are many people who still will mislead people to make a buck.

 

[wllmc]

you win freemind. lol.

 

[freemind]

And to be clear, I think anyone misrepresenting or just flat out lying, is a douche. No juice is FDA approved. Maybe some of the components are, but not the final product. Certainly not approved for what they end up being used for.

 

[freemind]

you win freemind. lol.

It's not about winning a debate. It's about being clear and not taking the chance of spreading mis-information or rumors. No reason to add fuel to the fire of the anti's.

 

[Smoky Blue]

Please show me evidence that it's not.

are you assuming?

It's something we should find out (and the study is being conducted). But I'm not going to assume anything yet.

best to never assume a thing, until vaping can be proven.. so far it appears.. but looks can be deceiving..
the fact is we die every day.. and in the end, we will die.. will we die happy, or??

And to be clear, I think anyone misrepresenting or just flat out lying, is a douche. No juice is FDA approved. Maybe some of the components are, but not the final product. Certainly not approved for what they end up being used for.

just wait till it all is, it will be more expensive than smoking..
oh wait.. the hobby aspect really pushes it beyond the cost of smoking, already..

just keep up with the testing results, eye on the vape

 

[wllmc]

no reason to only promote the flowers and butterflies either.

 

[freemind]

I'm not assuming anything. From the research I have looked over, nothing makes me assume that vaping is bad. All the components are "safe" in the form and way I use them.

 

[wllmc]

when I talk to people about vaping I tell them everything I know. I dont know it all but may as well give all the information out. thats always the first question people ask. is it safe ? my response is always I BELIEVE it is. I BELIEVE from the research and studies I have seen that there is not a health benefit from vaping but an improvement of your current health. will it cause cancer ? I dont know but just because no one has got it just yet doesnt mean Im going to say it doesnt. I would say Im not sure and thats a decision you have to make as an adult. is inhaling anything good ? I dont know. I BELIEVE its a safer alternative to smoking. opinions are like you know what, everyone has one. if you deal in facts all the facts just are not there. they are looking very hopeful and the ones that have been done are positive. we are the guinea pigs. if I did not think its was a better way to get nicotine I would not promote it nor would I vape. when you are talking about someones life and someones health its best to give ALL the information available.

 

[wllmc]

what makes you think inhaling as little as 2 % all day everyday of any flavor is without harm ? or VG or PG or nicotine or whatever little minute bit of that hot coil metal or cotton or any of it has been proven to be without harm.

you can not put "safe" and "someones health" in quotations. is it or is it not.

 

[wllmc]

if it was cut and dry we would not be talking about this right now. the fda and others have just only started looking at it. anyways I am no more right than you. no need to drag this out. so high five and on to other things. have a good afternoon.

 

[freemind]

what makes you think inhaling as little as 2 % all day everyday of any flavor is without harm ? or VG or PG or nicotine or whatever little minute bit of that hot coil metal or cotton or any of it has been proven to be without harm.

you can not put "safe" and "someones health" in quotations. is it or is it not.

I think it's safe because we breath much worse than the stuff in our juice. Think of how your air is contaminated every day. Car exhaust, aerosols, stuff in the air where you work, etc. etc. etc. You are breathing crud everywhere you go, and with everything you do.

This discussion tends to focus on the single issue, rather than the whole picture...

Forest - trees discussion my friend.

 

[wllmc]

I think it's safe

I will restart this debate with you when you can change this to I know its safe.

 

[freemind]

Here, let's just add this issue.
Orange flavors. Are they made with delimoline? You know it's the oil in oranges, right?

Do you know the effects it has on the human body? I do.

The focus isn't on the whole, just one aspect.

 

[freemind]

I will restart this debate with you when you can change this to I know its safe.

Ok.

Is breathing safe?

 

[Smoky Blue]

I'm not assuming anything. From the research I have looked over, nothing makes me assume that vaping is bad. All the components are "safe" in the form and way I use them.

stop right there.. eh......

first.. you know for a fact, and have had tested what you are mixing? can you show me those?

second.. no one has proven it's safe or not.. till then, i will keep vaping..

i see you bouncing from safe to ....

Here, let's just add this issue.
Orange flavors. Are they made with delimoline? You know it's the oil in oranges, right?

Do you know the effects it has on the human body? I do.

The focus isn't on the whole, just one aspect.

 

[Smoky Blue]

Ok.

Is breathing safe?

depends on what you are breathing in

 

[freemind]

Please show me YOUR scientific research you have conducted. Because you seem to indicate the only science we can trust, is the scientific research we conduct ourselves.

 

[Smoky Blue]

Please show me YOUR scientific research you have conducted. Because you seem to indicate the only science we can trust, is the scientific research we conduct ourselves.

actually, unless it comes from a highly recommended laboratory, documented..
self research is pointless.

self research is good if you want to know something from others..
but you sure can lie doing it all by yourself.

 

[freemind]

Meh... The FDA should be the pinnacle of tried and true research, but they have done crappy work too.

I tend to believe something when several studies have been concluded and their is not money behind it to push an agenda. Big tobacco will be sure to have "research" done, and it will favor their agenda. They will hire "highly recommended labs" to do it.

 

[Emilie]

Please show me evidence that it's not.

It's not 100% risk-free and safe, and the evidence comes from chemistry and biology. Any time you're stuffing your lungs with something that's not clean air, your putting yourself at risk. How much risk, we're not sure yet, which is the point, but there is risk.

Just look at your windshield. Tell me that's not happening in your lungs...

That said, I believe, and it's only a belief right now, that vaping is much safer than smoking tobacco, and I can use my own personal experience and health condition as evidence for my belief. I don't state it as fact, though, as I simply don't know for sure. There could be hidden harms that we just don't know about, such as when people used Diacetyl in juice. We know it's harmful now, but there was a time we didn't.

Now, after all of that, I'm NOT saying we should take the drastic measures that the FDA wants to take, but a little regulation would be good, meaning that if we COULD have juices that are FDA Certified, that would be better than having all of these unknown, unregulated juices out there and simply trusting that there's nothing bad in our juices and that our mods and batteries are produced to be safe and not blow up in our faces.

What's so wrong with that?

 

[freemind]

Nothing comes risk free. Nothing. Eating, walking, driving, working, etc. The "risk" is making a mountain of a molehill. What are the risks? "We don't know." Well, then I guess we should assume people will be growing a third eye then! We vapers will become mutants!

RE: vape on windshield. My windshield gets hazed MUCH faster then it ever did when I smoked. Yet, I vape at about the same rate in a vehicle then I smoked. So, I would surmise that less "stuff" from vaping ends up in my lungs as opposed to smoke and tar.

While I think we should be asking for research to be done, I think anyone "worrying" about vaping is being a worry wart. If folks spent half as much worry about everything else they were putting in their body, stores would be selling nothing anymore. I think it's odd and hilarious at the same time, that vapers, particularly a community of knowledgeable ones, seem so worried on the surface, what poison they may be inhaling.

Asking or wanting the FDA to regulate or oversee this industry is a complete mistake. I would rather Uncle Fudd stay out of it. They have shown enough over the years, they are incompetent at times. Besides, once government gets some power, they don't stop until they have ALL the power. But, we should know by now, they will. Too many willing suckers that vape will allow it. Too much money from big tobacco will influence it.

The same FDA that will tell you when and how you may vape, is the SAME FDA that tells you raw milk is poison. You can't buy, sell, or give away raw milk. And the additive they put in ciagarette paper tunes a few years ago, to "stop accidental fires from people falling asleep while smoking", would be approved by the FDA to put in flavoring or nic.

Yeah, I'll pass on trusting the FDA.

So yeah, I'm sure in the name of "safety", people will give their freedom over to the FDA and in a few years, cry because they think the laws and rules are WAY too over reaching. All because people want to worry about the somewhat "unknown".

 

[havok333]

I believe vaping to be safer than smoking cigs simply from the difference of how I feel now, opposed to how I felt 3 years ago. I no longer wheeze myself to sleep, no do I hack/cough myself awake.

Now if something is discovered in the future that proves that you will catch some kind of disease from vaping I'll evaluate if I want to give this up as well. I am watchful of the details of these various studies and where the funding comes from because it's obvious to me there are groups that want to control the narrative for their own purposes/gains.

For now, there's nothing that has convinced me vaping is 100% safe or even 1% harmful. That being said, I still don't tell others that vaping is perfectly fine when asked by those that re truly curious or considering switching from smoking. I only tell them of how much better I feel since switching and that I'm comfortable with all I've read on the subject thus far. Also, if it turns out vaping is harmful in some way, I will NOT be trying to sue Temco, FA, Shiseido, Sony, CVS (for those damn supposed organic cotton balls!) or anyone else. Will take full responsibility instead for my decision to vape and deal with any unforseen health issues. I'm more concerned with the nearly 30 yrs of smoking tbh.

I'm right there with ya @wllmc to NOT spread rumors that much of anything is "perfectly safe", let alone a smoking alternative.

 

[Time]

When asked, I say, "I don't know, but it's cheaper than smoking". For me, it is. I don't buy hype. So I actually spend very little as compared to smoking. That goes for mods, tanks, atties, flavors, nic and everthing else.

That said, there is an over abundance of "safety" talk in the vape community. So much so, I'm quite certain there will be regulation. The disclosure issue won't be an issue for too long as requirements for disclosure statements to be printed on every device, every bottle of juice, every bottle of flavor as a pack of smokes is sure to come. Some vapers seem to be asking for it. Non vaper do gooders certainly will want it. What comes with regulation of a possible non safe vise? Sin tax. To pay for the regulation. To pay for possible health consequences.

I buy bulk for that reason. Before long, I won't be able to say that vaping is cheaper. It will be for me. Not for new vapers when the sin tax kick in not to mention the extra costs for vendors/manufacturers to meet the regs.

Nobody ever heard of "shooting yourself in the foot"?