It's not cost effective at the moment. It has benifits, but cost is not one of them.
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Nicotine For The Rest Of Your Life (UPDATED)
- Thread starter dmagicp
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It's not cost effective at the moment. It has benifits, but cost is not one of them.
I just feel that we're already in a battle with the FDA, why supply the ammo? It's not just a matter of personal safety, especially if you have kids, pets, family. One drop not seen and not cleaned up could make someone serioulsy sick, or even cause death.
If we start seeing stories in the news about it, the problems we have with the FDA will seem like a walk in the park.
If we start seeing stories in the news about it, the problems we have with the FDA will seem like a walk in the park.
And with how dangerous it is, I am surprised that people can actually buy it. WOW
I guess I would need to really try and figure out my nicotine intake requirements for long term storage but I also don't vape as much as others do. I heard that there are people vaping through 30 ml bottles in one day. I almost couldn't believe it. I started vaping at 18 mg and I never reduced my nicotine so a 30 ml bottle will last me almost a month. The fastest that I have gone through a 30 ml bottle was one week and that was when I bought a juice that I absolutely loved and could not stop vaping it lol
It doesn't end up saving you money over 100mg base. So, while it isn't as bad as some are making it out to be, it can cause problems with having it around. The biggest issue being whether somebody not knowing what it is getting ahold of it. That means you would have to worry for a lifetime about hiding the stuff(keeping it locked up). Also, any heat would ruin it. It's hard to keep something in perfect conditions for 40 years. And you don't want to freeze pure nic.
In short, it's more hassle than it's worth for most people. I'm not afraid of it, but I wouldn't buy a liter just for myself.
I'm going to look and see if there is maybe a 200 MG PG Base. Then I could have a smaller footprint in the deep freeze at least.
AndriaD
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Likewise. And they probably realize that for a certain percentage of those who already vape, the ship has already sailed, and they won't be getting anymore tobacco money from those people ever again -- those who frequent these forums, who build their own coils and make their own juice. But I fear we're a fairly small percentage of vapers as a whole, and certainly there are still plenty of smokers who haven't yet heard The Good News, who are so brainwashed by mass media that they honestly think vaping is worse than smoking -- which serves to vindicate them in continuing to smoke, which is all they really want anyway. Those are the tobacco tax dollars that the goobermint wants to keep, and no doubt will keep for some time to come. But there WILL come a point when TRUTH will outweigh greed -- you can't make something not true, just by hollering LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.
Andria
Oh my God you are so right about the brainwashing! Case in point, my friends niece would always remember just the bad parts about the news reports but not get the whole story and would repeat it over and over to everyone she talked to. She would say: Vaping has embalming fluid in it and that stuff is dangerous so I'm going to just smoke. Or I hear people say that stuff that you guys are vaping is the same thing as anti freeze. They always seem to just remember one thing but not ever hear the rebuttal or the whole story and they just keep repeating that stuff to everyone that they talk to. Then eventually there are thousands of people saying that vape smoke (lol) is anti freeze and embalming fluid. It's no wonder that the general public thinks that vaping is dangerous. In my years, I have learned that most people have extremely short attention spans as well as being lazy with no desire to research or fact check. And our government knows this and they exploit it.
As I noted in my first post above about pure nicotine, if you are not trained and have a lab, don't mess with it. For those that are competent, it is inexpensive and easily stored for long periods of time.
Or another school of thought. Let's say you purchase an 8oz bottle of pure nic from E-liq in glass. $80. You buy an empty, lined 1 gal paint can and a gallon of VG. When the 8oz bottle of pure nic comes, you put the bottle directly into the 1 gal paint can, and you cover it with 2133ml of VG or PG or your choice of mix, hammer down the lid, and put it in the cool part of your basement. Now the base is going to be subjected to a lil oxygen. No big deal. Because it is also pretty much insulating your pure nic from exposure to air. So every few years, you pull out your sealed bottle of pure nic, which WILL live almost forever in an environment like that, rinse it off, and change the base in the can.
What's the worst that can happen? Your pail leaks, but it can only leak base, no nic. Your nic leaks, but it leaks into the perfect quantity of base to make 100mg/ml. Once you finally NEED the nic, you simply pull it, rinse, put 2133ml of base back into the can (or hell, get a new one) and do the EASIEST safest thing in the world. Put on the gear, open it over the can, and pour it in. Voila, 2.6 liters of 100mg/ml base for $80 and some change.
I don't have any trouble feeling safe doing this. My kids are grown, my cats live outside.
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Yep. I'm assuming that those not comfortable have historical reasons for not feeling comfortable. Containing and handling potentially haz waste is my job. I'm completely comfortable.
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So what exactly is it made of? The answer to that was probably in some of the scientific data blah blah on their website, but it may as well have been Greek to me.
So what exactly is it made of? The answer to that was probably in some of the scientific data blah blah on their website, but it may as well have been Greek to me.
It's synthetic nicotine not extracted.
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Made from what?
AndriaD
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Yes, exactly -- even when someone asks your opinion of something, they don't usually REALLY want your true opinion; they just want you to agree with THEIR opinion. And we all know how smokers are, almost all of us used to be smokers ourselves -- they just want some reason to keep doing what they want to keep doing, and the gov't and media are very obligingly giving it to them -- because the gov't needs the tax money, and the FDA's butt buddies at BP need for people to keep getting sick with all the smoking-related diseases so they can keep selling all that snake oil that doesn't really cure most people, but sure costs a lot of money. Or, to keep buying all that totally ineffective NRT snake oil, which helps, what, about 3% to actually quit smoking and stay that way? They figure they can handle 3% attrition; it's the wholesale switching from tobacco to vapor that they absolutely won't tolerate -- it would cause too much good health and a lot fewer tax dollars in gov't coffers!
Bastards. Evil, greedy, lying, scum-sucking bastards.
Andria
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So they're combining carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen in a lab to replicate nicotine?Nicotine's chemical formula is C 10H 14N 2.
Carbon, Hydrogen and Nitrogen.
Basically, yes.
Most things that can be extracted don't get synthesized because it's cost prohibitive. An example would be caffeine. Caffeine is synthesized but the vast majority of caffeine in our products, like soda, is extracted from plants because it's cheaper.
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Yep. And you don't see the FDfuckingA calling coke, pepsi, or Mtn Dew "coffee products".
Andria
Yep. And you don't see the FDfuckingA calling coke, pepsi, or Mtn Dew "coffee products".
Andria
You also don't see gasoline with ethanol in it deemed a corn product.
Other plants other than tobacco contain nicotine and can be used for extraction.
I'm not sure if extraction from other plants or synthetic nicotine would work as a means to get out from under the FDA. It would take a team of lawyers to figure that out.
I bought 120ml of 100mg back at the end of last October. It's winding down to the end, but that's mixing for me, my wife and sometimes friends. So that's 6 months for me. Not sure about trying to stock up for a lifetime, but thinking of at least a liter or two. If for some reason it's banned I'll just work my way down to 0 nic. Already down to 2, so it'd just be a slow wean until I didn't need it. Now that being said, that's what I would do, but I still think it's utter b.s. So many things much more harmful being legalized all over the nation, but God forbid that we vape. I know a lot of people including myself who would have never quit smoking (not for lack of trying other things) without vaping. My lungs are healthier, blood pressure is no longer high, don't hack up a lung in the mornings and have shortness of breath. The only thing I've changed in my life is 2 1/2 years ago I started vaping and dropped the cigs. Thanks FDA for overlooking the thousands if not millions of us in that category.
I'll add another 2 cents. Seriously, 100mg is strong enough. Pure nic is DANGEROUS. Like previously stated in the thread, all we need is someone severely injured or dead messing with it, careful or not. That'd bring down the hammer fast. We don't need that attention.
I'll add another 2 cents. Seriously, 100mg is strong enough. Pure nic is DANGEROUS. Like previously stated in the thread, all we need is someone severely injured or dead messing with it, careful or not. That'd bring down the hammer fast. We don't need that attention.
Good catchI mean to say consumable item
Of course, i was just pulling your chain!
If I look hard, I can probably order one up from Fastech in China. (They have Everything!
)Ron
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“If you think you can do it, or you think you can’t do it, You are right.” – Henry Ford
Pure nic has been on the market for a long time. The only nicotine death related with vaping was from 100mg/ml.
So, there's that...........................
It doesn't matter if it is extracted or synthetic nicotine. There is a provision in the regulations that covers this to counter any and all loopholes that people are going to try and exploit. And something that I found very interesting is that they compiled all of this data from us by lurking in vaping forums, watching vape reviewer vlogs and listening to podcasts. Hell they are probably reading this thread right now.
I'm sure that's true. But, Congress gave the FDA authority over products derived from tobacco. Synthetic nicotine is not derived from tobacco so while I'm sure the FDA will try to keep authority, it may be possible to sue on the grounds that Congress did not give them authority of products not derived from tobacco. I don't know, it's just a thought. Like I said, the lawyers would have to look at that.
Thank you for the link.
I certainly hope so Time.
LMAO Andrea!Yep. And you don't see the FDfuckingA calling coke, pepsi, or Mtn Dew "coffee products".
Andria
That's a good thought, but synthesized nicotine would then be a drug, no? It has been a very long time since I last looked at that. Is there a reason the FDA would not be in a position to regulate a synthesized chemical intended for ingestion? Maybe there's an exception for nicotine -- I can't remember.
For my nic, I've hoarded a lifetime (actually likely more than a lifetime at my age lol) supply of 100mg in the freezer. I bought a liter in brown glass every time it went on sale, over a few years. My issue was the threat of huge taxes (my state was talking a buck per ml so $1,000 per liter in taxes!) -- but now maybe they ban it unless you have a pharmacy license, who knows what the gov't will do next.
Been using my frozen nic for years. I decant about 45 ml at a time to a small bottle kept in the fridge for batch mixing. The remainder stays in the freezer. The 45 ml lasts about 3 or 4 months so I only need to reopen a frozen bottle a few times a year. I don't have the means to chemically test it, but it stays clear and seems same as ever.
I'm fortunate to be a half hour's drive away from both Nicotine River and Liquid Barn. The folks at nic river seem pretty confident that their NIc Select is not in danger of "being banned". However, they do caution that there will be attempts to make liquid nic purchasable only with a manufacturer's permit.For the moment this is specific to California's new regs, but I'd say it's a realistic expectation on the national level as well.
But it's important to keep it in perspective...if this happens it will not kill DIY. It will kill ready availability of nicotine, but the other ingredients will remain just as available as they are now. That leaves us DIYers with two paths...maintain the addiction to nicotine and return to smoking, or maintain the addiction to vaping and lose the nicotine. I think it's important to think in these terms. Either way, we should keep clearly in mind that we're trying to maintain an addiction to one thing or another.
Or stuff your freezer full of 10 gallons of nic base, it that's what it takes to quell the anxiety for you. I'm not going to do that. I want to be free to roam, move to another country, etc without fretting over how to keep a bunch of nic on ice. Consider the compromises of caring for your nic stockpile too!
But it's important to keep it in perspective...if this happens it will not kill DIY. It will kill ready availability of nicotine, but the other ingredients will remain just as available as they are now. That leaves us DIYers with two paths...maintain the addiction to nicotine and return to smoking, or maintain the addiction to vaping and lose the nicotine. I think it's important to think in these terms. Either way, we should keep clearly in mind that we're trying to maintain an addiction to one thing or another.
Or stuff your freezer full of 10 gallons of nic base, it that's what it takes to quell the anxiety for you. I'm not going to do that. I want to be free to roam, move to another country, etc without fretting over how to keep a bunch of nic on ice. Consider the compromises of caring for your nic stockpile too!
I for one have no intention of moving to another country, so feel no compromise or fretting forthcoming. Once bottled, vacuum sealed and placed in the freezer there is no caring for it either.
Just wanted to add, you can get test kits from several vendors. I got mine from Wizard Labs. Bull City sells them and I'm sure a few others we know of. Google shows non vape places, too.
That's the way I'm looking at it. I'm going to get a liter of 100mg and finish weaning off of nicotine before it's gone and give away what is left. I started with 18mg juice 4 years ago and I'm down to 3mg now and was not in a hurry to drop. I WILL NOT let this government screw me over with ecigs like they did over the years with Tobacco I'll quite just to spite the *****!
You can use most of those words here
I know.... trying to act my ageYou can use most of those words here
****, that's no fun....
I have been looking at this: http://www.carolinaxtract.com/#!product/prd12/3362506561/11.1-liter-supercritical-nic.-pg-100mg-1ml
I think this would last me the rest of this life and 2.5 years in the afterlife as well.
I think this would last me the rest of this life and 2.5 years in the afterlife as well.
God bless you Mad Scientist! This is exactly the kind of data that we need. So far we have gathered that the longest time documented for stored Nicotine without degradation at 4 years. I am willing to bet that with storage in stainless steel bottles under argon gas the time could very well be 10 years or more.
That's the way I'm looking at it. I'm going to get a liter of 100mg and finish weaning off of nicotine before it's gone and give away what is left. I started with 18mg juice 4 years ago and I'm down to 3mg now and was not in a hurry to drop. I WILL NOT let this government screw me over with ecigs like they did over the years with Tobacco I'll quite just to spite the DUMB BASTARDS!
There. Fixed.
Some of the old-timers on ECF have reported 6+ years with no degradation. This is for glass bottles with minimal head-space, in the freezer.
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Howdy Rossum, haven't seen ya around in a while. I was missin ya.
Been busy -- stockpiling.
J/K. As you're probably aware, I've been doing that slowly and methodically for 2+ years.
AndriaD
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Been busy -- stockpiling.
J/K. As you're probably aware, I've been doing that slowly and methodically for 2+ years.
Same here. But now I'm trying to find a way to fit even more nic in that freezer.
Down to 4mg too, so what I have will last longer. Figure I'll probably get to about 3mg and just stick there, which would make my current supply last much longer than any expected lifespan. Andria
Back in 2009, In post #16 in the thread there titled ...
Smoke Juice Storage Tips
... nic was reported used in lab research that was fine after 10-20 years in the freezer.
This was posted by a forum member who had worked as a chemist for 30 years. Reading his other posts in that and other threads were quite interesting...
Ron
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"Let's just say I was testing the bounds of reality. I was curious to see what would happen. That's all it was curiosity. "-Jim Morrison
I'm still at 15 and have 32 years worth in cold storage. I just turned 57. I figure if/when I hit 80, I'll think about starting to cut back.Same here. But now I'm trying to find a way to fit even more nic in that freezer.