5150sick
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Vape Regulation Is Coming, and It Just Might Kill the Industry
- Thread starter 5150sick
- Start date
Because they can. They want to fuck the industry dead... so backdate no grandfather bullshit and it destroys 100% of what is on the market.
f1r3b1rd
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I see that fuck me!!!
Glad I have mechs, and know how to solder. Wasn't sure if there was dome other meaning there though.
Fucked up!
Here is what people are not seeing and selectively not hearing the congritards. Rescheduling nic...
Mean script or no health benifits label and it becomes schedule 1...
f1r3b1rd
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Yeah I know
I went over how to extract it from tobacco a while back as a Justin case. Luckily with dripping I've already vaped 0 Nic also to try it and was ok.But, like I was saying somewhere else, its not myself in worries about, I can be self sufficient and am active enough I'm the community to where ill be fine, we will figure something out together as a community, no doubt there. It will suck for a while but vaping will live on with us. Its the people looking to start and the small business owners that I worry about.
At least the good ones anyway....
Was lining up the funds to do a start up. But this ax hanging above us as a whole got people to pull out.Yeah I know
But, like I was saying somewhere else, its not myself in worries about, I can be self sufficient and am active enough I'm the community to where ill be fine, we will figure something out together as a community, no doubt there. It will suck for a while but vaping will live on with us. Its the people looking to start and the small business owners that I worry about.
At least the good ones anyway....
f1r3b1rd
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Can ya blame them? I would have pulled out faster than a popped durex.
When the fatcats on crapital hill get done doing pedo bear shit they like to suck on phallic symbols.
This is why I hate the government they want to regulate every thing but their self's this country is ran by baffons and libtards
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Ayooooo!
I see what you did there.
But seriously, how can they basically make "reduced harm" claims about premium cigars; specifically saying that "cigars have varying public health effects", and are "not shown to be as addictive as cigarettes"?
I'm totally fine with them putting the clamp down on the companies that have been selling RYO cigarette tobacco as "pipe tobacco". I think that the definition of a "premium cigar" should be changed to mean a HANDMADE cigar instead of having a $10 price point or any specific price. Go ahead and regulate the crap out of shitty machine-made flavored cigars. The only thing people use them for anyway is to roll up with weed.
What I don't like is the specific mention of the flavors of e-juice being appealing to children; the implication that, first of all, the flavors are only appealing to children and, secondly, that e-juice manufacturers specifically make the juice flavors to appeal to children. Look at the studies and surveys, "kids" (not just the high school kids they survey, but the 18-34s count as "children" to the FDA) are using e-cigarettes as an alternative to cigarettes or to quit cigarettes. These "kids" were and are already using actual tobacco products (you know, the kind the FDA regulates, the ones made by Big Tobacco) BEFORE using e-cigarettes.
Also, I noticed that at the end of practically every bullet is a request by the FDA for public comment. I wonder when and where they will be having their public forum on this?
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They won't.
The public debate is not welcome from our non elected overlords of death and poison. Cause fuck you little citizen, we control YOUR health care, YOUR meds, and MAKE all the Dr.s choices for them.
FDA stand for Fuck Die Already.
f1r3b1rd
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I'll play devils advocate, I actually find that useful as a way to predict whoever is going to say whatever
I can see them making the claims of cigars as harm reduction because of the fact that MOST cigars are not inhaled and there is no filter on the cigar. -taking away a fair amount of chemicles.
Personally I think that to be a dump truck full of bullshit but after all we did rekindle Cuba love so of course the feds want to keep stogies on circulation
I can see them making the claims of cigars as harm reduction because of the fact that MOST cigars are not inhaled and there is no filter on the cigar. -taking away a fair amount of chemicles.
Personally I think that to be a dump truck full of bullshit but after all we did rekindle Cuba love so of course the feds want to keep stogies on circulation
and a whole captive population of children to diddle.
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lol...its also where Elvis, Hitler and 2pac all live
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Did you read it?
Did you see where it specifically stated that "cigars can contain as much tobacco as a pack of cigarettes and release nicotine at a rate that is, or is greater than, 10 times higher than a typical cigarette"?
Also "pipe tobacco and cigars, while typically not inhaled, release tars and other carcinogens, also found in cigarettes, that can settle in the lungs and stomach".
How about "pipe tobacco and cigars are still associated with causing cancers of the mouth and throat"?
Also, as far as flavors go, they're not just focusing on e-cigs. They also mentioned hookah tobacco, which unflavored hookah tobacco is just tobacco soaked in VG or PG.
Must be too many kids getting hooked on hookah too....
I still occasionally smoke pipes and cigars, although I haven't in the last two months since I quit cigarettes.
I also smoke hookah, and would be seriously pissed if I couldn't get flavored shisha, but would probably switch to herbal or stones.
That was one HUGE loophole that I saw. They specifically say "tobacco, products derived from tobacco (i.e. containing nicotine), and the devices and apparatuses associated with the use of said products".
This says to me that if nicotine was cut out altogether from a juice or a "device or apparatus" (mods/RDA/RTA/tanks) wasn't specifically marketed or sold as a product used to vaporize liquids containing nicotine the FDA, if these regulations go through unchanged, will be unable to regulate the same items/products/industry when they are no longer marketed or sold as a way to get nicotine (a tobacco derived product) into your body.
Basically if the devices aren't specifically sold as a device used to vaporize nicotine containing e-juice then they're just devices used for vaporizing flavored PG/VG (or other herbal products/extracts that will soon be under less legal scrutiny than those that simply contain nicotine) and not in the purview of the FDA.
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There is currently a petition that we need all vapers (or even nonvapers, doesn't matter) to sign. It's to get the FDA to redo the reform you're taking about. Spread the word! Go to this link and sign the petition guys!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...-life-saving-vapor-products-can-remain-market
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https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...-life-saving-vapor-products-can-remain-market
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stevegmu
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It isn't but some vendors and websites need to keep the fear alive...
Children don't smoke $40 cigars...
The problem is that the only part of the flavored cigars that are getting smoked by the "kids" is the reconstituted tobacco-paper wrapper. The actual tobacco gets dumped on the ground or in the trash.
I know quite a few "premium" cigar smokers (myself included). Although I know that cigars over $10 exist, and have personally had a few in the $10-15 dollar range(over the last decade), I exclusively buy cigars <$5. To be honest, the last "expensive" cigar I had was an overpriced $8 Macanudo at a horse track about 3 1/2 years ago.
So no, the kids aren't buying $40 cigars. I do think the FDA's only qualifier for a "premium" cigar being that it has to cost more than $10 has to change. That is extremely out of touch with how things are. I mentioned earlier, that instead of a dollar amount, to differentiate between premium and non-premium cigars they should have handmade cigars (which the "kids" don't smoke) designated as premium and tax the crap out of the machine made flavored garbage which the kids DO smoke.
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The saddest part of our journey as Vapers is the amount of flavors that are available and the perception that this in itself leads Kids to vaping..I at one time was completely happy with having a 555 flavor or a tobacco flavor I had never considered vaping a freaking candy cane or a Gummy bear it was inevitable that kids would taste this and regulation would occur I sometimes wonder if Ejuice had never been flavored if the end result would be the same..Sadly they are going to regulate and their is nothing we can do as a small group that only a small percentage of us actually cares about the long haul. I remember a month after I started vaping I knew this was coming and as much as I am prepped pretty much for years for whatever comes I still feel defeated..
Just some thoughts this Monday
Just some thoughts this Monday
See, for me, the other flavors is what turned me onto vaping. I'd tried the tobacco flavors and it just made me want to smoke regular cigarettes because (at the time) the little ecigs that looked like cigarettes were unsatisfying. Then a few years later when other flavors came out, I loved it, because it didn't taste like a nasty cigarette anymore... Coffee was the one that got me lol
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haha whats funny is now I do not smoke tobacco flavors at all.. maybe once in a blue moon I may make up a batch of Ry4 and some odd other flavor.. there is no easy answer its all just so fucked... again feeling defeated. Now I want the most in your face flavor as possible
f1r3b1rd
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Kind of like the mod - the FUFDA
Here is a thought.....
Why should they tax any of it? If you support taxing something you don't "like" or "care for", then don't be surprised when something you do care about, gets attacked.
All this talk about unity is all for naught. That's exactly why the FDA is stomping the vape industry, and fucking it up for ALL OF US. We are our own worse enemy.
Common sense should tell you, taxing something isn't stopping ANYONE from doing something they want to do. You are just letting the government take your money for "permission" to do it.
CAPITALISM..
I hate to say this, there's nobody stopping them and they know it.
VAPING is already categorized as SMOKING, I was reading some of it, and umm they mentioned FALVORED JUICES that is attracting the YOUTH!!
It just makes sense
Cause the youth are the future
And they will make sure that this future are for them. TOBACCO
I mean it's happening now, we see kids on skate boards blowing clouds and skipping the STINKIES!!!
Oh well
VAPE ON
I hate to say this, there's nobody stopping them and they know it.
VAPING is already categorized as SMOKING, I was reading some of it, and umm they mentioned FALVORED JUICES that is attracting the YOUTH!!
It just makes sense
Cause the youth are the future
And they will make sure that this future are for them. TOBACCO
I mean it's happening now, we see kids on skate boards blowing clouds and skipping the STINKIES!!!
Oh well
VAPE ON
Well so far there's almost 40k people trying to stop them, or at least make it fair. The thing that pisses me off is I know for a fact that there are at least 5 times as many people vaping as there are needed for this petition. I'm a part of the instagram vapefam, and some of the accounts on there have 100k or more followers, so there's no reason that this petition should even be an issue. Granted it doesn't mean that everything is all better just because we get enough signatures, but it's a start.CAPITALISM..
I hate to say this, there's nobody stopping them and they know it.
VAPING is already categorized as SMOKING, I was reading some of it, and umm they mentioned FALVORED JUICES that is attracting the YOUTH!!
It just makes sense
Cause the youth are the future
And they will make sure that this future are for them. TOBACCO
I mean it's happening now, we see kids on skate boards blowing clouds and skipping the STINKIES!!!
Oh well
VAPE ON
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I'm not trying to get into a left vs. right battle. If you feel that there should be no excise or "vice" tax than you're entitled to that opinion.
The fact is that taxes on tobacco products aren't going to be lowered, much less go away.
I'm not saying that I want to tax things because I don't like them personally. What I'm saying is that there are tobacco products being made with the explicit intention of dodging cigarette taxes, i.e. filtered "little cigars", roll-your-own "pipe tobacco", etc. The FDA is missing the point with their determination that the thing that determines whether a kid will smoke a cigar is synonymous to the price tag being $10 or higher. It has nothing to do with my occasional cigar smoking as I haven't smoked a non-machine-made cigar in over a year, nor a machine-made in several months.
This has nothing to do with myself wanting to personally impose anything on anyone else. Clench up your butt cheeks because the FDA IS GOING TO deem nicotine containing e-juice and "e-cigarettes" as tobacco products. Period.
What will make the biggest difference to the status quo is whether they impose the same flavor restrictions as cigarettes. I'll gladly give the feds 4% of my e-cig purchase to ensure that things are safe and manufactured to a decent standard. I won't give them a damn thing if they do like all of the preachers of the vape-ocolypse have been crying.
The wheels of the government taking money for the "permission" to do something have been turning for centuries before either of us were born.
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Why do we need the FDA or the feds to ensure E-juice is manufactured safely? Seriously..... The feds won't be inspecting it. Matter of fact, the FDA is the ones that approved all the junk and poison in cigarettes. So what makes you think they will ensure juice won't contain MAOI's or other shit that would make it more addictive or deadly?
A great example of how the feds "take care of things" is the very roads we drive on. We pay federal and state fuel tax on every gallon of fuel we buy. And a tax per gallon that actually exceeds the profit per gallon that the "greedy oil corporations" get. That tax is supposed to be taking care of the roads we drive on. I see the roads in three different states that I drive on, and am baffled at the billions of dollars collected and such little repair that is done. Shitty roads to drive on, pot holed riddled.
When Social Security was started, it was voluntary and "capped" at 1%, they didn't lie to anyone then, did they?
Government is a bloated beast that only seeks to grab more power and more of our money. They aren't looking out for you, foolish child.
I guess what I should've said was "I'll give them X% WHEN e-cig stuff is deemed a tobacco product". We all will, or will go underground, or stop using nicotine.
As far as gas taxes and road repairs go:
Is it the fuel tax itself that you're opposed to or is it the fact that your elected politicians have decided to take that revenue and, instead of putting it directly into the DOT budget, put it into the general fund?
Either way if you don't collect taxes on fuel and motor vehicle sales there is little to no money to maintain and repair the roads we have the privilege of driving on. Are you against taxing fuel and motor vehicle sales or the misuse of the collected funds? The answer isn't "if we would've elected a Republican we'd have better roads and better use of our tax dollars".
On a recent trip through a neighboring state we ran into a road construction project. This particular project, of pretty basic repaving and bridge repair, has been going on for over 11 years now and is still not completed because they run out of money, stop working, and pick back up when they have money again. This is in the same state that decided to do away with corporate income tax several years ago as well and also has very low tax rates in general. The state did a great job of luring businesses in (albeit into a very small area of the state), but doesn't have the revenue to finish simple road repair.
I understand exactly where you're coming from. Toe the party line, let the people who earn and consume the most pay the least toward the common good and public use items, such as roads etc, and put that burden on average-Joe.
The "greedy oil corporations", although they're making less money than a decade ago, they're still making several BILLIONS in profits. I have no sympathy for them.
Does the FDA allow and "approve" of cigarettes continuing to be made with a bunch of nasty crap in them? Yes. Is this mainly because of our President, who is a corporate Democrat aka Republican in Democrat clothing? Yes.
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stevegmu
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Maybe next year...
There is no vote for the FDA regs. Only white house approval. Should be done in a couple months.
You are pretty confused. I tow no party line. Neither side of the isle is worth a squirt of piss. I can however, tell exactly your political leanings from your response. You are obviously a hardcore liberal, or progressive if you prefer.
I do not see profits as evil. Not in the private sector. Government is not a business, it is a creation of the people to serve very specific and LIMITED purposes.
You don't work for paupers. You work for wise business people who turn profits to pay wages. You invest money to get a return. To get a return, business has to make profits.
Sorry, I don't think we can have a political discussion. The second someone goes off about the evil of profits, any ability to discuss rationally is out the window.
Close, but no cigar; I'm not just a "blanket" liberal; I actually work in a public sector job in my hometown; and agreed, let's not debate politics or "rationality".
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I'm pretty sure your mod doesn't give a fuck what party you're a part of... if your rights get taken away because you didn't sign the petition or spread the word to everyone you could, including nonvapers as we've made it clear we should, then your mods, juice, coils, all of it goes bye bye. Pointless bickering gets us no where as a vape community.
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stevegmu
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Really? Signing a petition will change the minds of the Administration and the FDA? It seems so easy...
555 has been my main juice since I started vaping 4 years ago
Signed
It might be way more effective than sitting there with your thumb up your ass.
Who knows.
Valid point, which is why you should be calling congressmen, the white house, sending emails to them etc. But not signing that petition means that all the calls and emails won't mean shit. Believe it or not there are quite a few congressmen and senators that support vaping. But doing nothing or bickering about it doesn't get us anywhere.
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stevegmu
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I won't sign something written as if it were concocted through a translation program...
The calls and e-mails don't mean anything. Every response has been something to the effect of we don't know enough about e-cigarettes...
Then get off here and do some fuckin research. Not all of them are like that, I know several people that have gotten the exact opposite response. But it's ok, doing nothing is a great response.
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I hate "signing" these petitions. I'm not saying it doesn't do anything, but in my experience giving my email out to a political org ALWAYS results in me getting more spam emails than PCH.
I've signed a total of 3 online petitions (including this one) and am still getting emails from random people supposedly connected with the first two. They can't be "spammed" either because they're always from different addresses, but they typically have their affiliation in the headline.
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I've signed a total of 3 online petitions (including this one) and am still getting emails from random people supposedly connected with the first two. They can't be "spammed" either because they're always from different addresses, but they typically have their affiliation in the headline.
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stevegmu
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It is responses like yours which is why vaping and vapers aren't taken seriously and are just seen as angry addicts..
I am pretty god damned sure if those fuck puppets in congress were getting vapers' money they would lobby against the regs..
But since there is no big vapor other than the BT companies that have bought out the shitty cigafakes... you see how it goes.
Money talks and the bullshitters keep getting re-elected.
But since there is no big vapor other than the BT companies that have bought out the shitty cigafakes... you see how it goes.
Money talks and the bullshitters keep getting re-elected.
I don't respond to others this way, just ignorant lazy vapers that don't want to do anything to protect their rights because "it's not gonna do any good anyways"
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