Vapers living with disabilities and/or pain, psychological issues, etc..

[The Cromwell]

The opiods is the big issue right now. I can't find one doctor, including my PCP of 48 years that will prescribe it. You pretty much have to have a new broken leg, arm or chest injury, etc. for them to prescribe it for pain. Even then, they will only dispense small amounts and maybe 1 refill, depending on the severity of the Dx since percocet and hydrocodone for example are very addictive.

Can be addictive but not for everyone.
Took Hydrocodone as needed for 12 years for pain.
New law cut me off cold turkey.
No withdrawl or cravings what so ever just more pain.
so I take 1 - 1.5 grams of Naproxen daily now and still hurt more.

 

[AndriaD]

@Matty Vapes Most sedatives can be addictive. In your situation they don't want you to cross-addicting. Using your drug of choice before your treatment to feel anything other than who you are to stop your mind's current state is their biggest concern. Say your drug of choice was **caine. They won't issue any med with the chance that you'll become addicted to prescribed meds. There is a drug that I use, in a small dosage, Seroquel. I take 200mg at bedtime and it puts me right out. My therapist has prescribed non addictive meds for me, other than the diazapam and clonazapam for stress and anxiety. Ask your doctor about Bupropion XL (Wellbutrin), and the small 25mg of Quietiapine (Seroquel). I take the Wellbutrin in the morning and the Seroquel twice a day to keep me chilled out. Not spacey at all, but enough to keep you level, not tired. Prozac has me bouncing off walls.

Believe it or not, Wellbutrin is also used as a means help smokers stop smoking. Oddly, I find that I don't vape as much. As you mentioned earlier, I find that when I do vape, I need max vg to satisfy me. I find dense vapor quite satisfying.

Welbutrin was the one they tried on me after Prozac, before Effexor. I didn't find the Welbutrin helpful at all for my depression and anxiety problems, but one thing I did notice was that I could wait 30-60 mins after a meal to have a cigarette -- I could do the dishes and THEN go out to smoke; it took the urgent edge off. But quitting smoking wasn't on the agenda then, I was just trying to find a way keep going from day to day, so they tried the Effexor -- and since its best off-label use is for anxiety, that one was the charm for me. Total bitch to withdraw from, though -- I spent longer weaning down from it than in active need of it!

Andria

 

[f1r3b1rd]

yeah I get the same thing....
The DEA and knee jerk drug laws have doctors scared to prescribe medications to people who actually need them.
Hell I have to show my drivers license to buy cold medicines....
All purchases are tracked in a database and the amount is limited....

The fda sucks!
I've been on tramadol for 7 years to manage pain. It won't take it away, but it does keep it at a bearable level- usually. I refuse to take the more powerful meds.
At some point they moved tramadol to the scheduled list. Assholes have me trying to time when I refill it, because between insurance and the feds I can't refill it 'too' early.
This month I was told that despite my script having 6 refills left, the feds won't let me refill it more than 5 times without an 'updated' script. Damn doctor's office got the refill request Thursday, but didn't send it in until today.
Ive been rationing since Saturday and enjoying huge pain spikes.....
Thank you fda.... Thank you alot you cockmonkeys.

BAM crew

 

[f1r3b1rd]

I need to track down a medical grade tens unit.
Not one of those pieces of shit Chinese things that takes batteries or plugs in with a usb cord but a REAL tens unit that plugs into the wall at 120 volts.
My friend Dominick had one when i lived up North because he was born with a back disorder.
He let me borrow it for about six months and it worked just like the ones at physical therapy.
It was absolutely amazing.
When he asked for it back i tried to talk him into selling it but he needed it so i gave it back and told him if he ever got rid of it let me know first.

Maybe check Facebook.
I'll check some of the spinal cord injury group's I belong to. There's a few sci and tbi groups on FB that sell their used DMEs

BAM crew

 

[JuicyLucy]

Can be addictive but not for everyone.
Took Hydrocodone as needed for 12 years for pain.
Ne law cut me off cold turkey.
No withdrawl or cravings what so ever just more pain.
so I take 1 - 1.5 grams of Naproxen daily now and still hurt more.

The fda sucks!
I've been on tramadol for 7 years to manage pain. It won't take it away, but it does keep it at a bearable level- usually. I refuse to take the more powerful meds.
At some point they moved tramadol to the scheduled list. Assholes have me trying to time when I refill it, because between insurance and the feds I can't refill it 'too' early.
This month I was told that despite my script having 6 refills left, the feds won't let me refill it more than 5 times without an 'updated' script. Damn doctor's office got the refill request Thursday, but didn't send it in until today.
Ive been rationing since Saturday and enjoying huge pain spikes.....
Thank you fda.... Thank you alot you cockmonkeys.

BAM crew

As per usual, innocent patients suffer in the name of stopping drug abuse. Makes me so angry!

 

[Ms. Trixy]

I need to track down a medical grade tens unit.
Not one of those pieces of shit Chinese things that takes batteries or plugs in with a usb cord but a REAL tens unit that plugs into the wall at 120 volts.
My friend Dominick had one when i lived up North because he was born with a back disorder.
He let me borrow it for about six months and it worked just like the ones at physical therapy.
It was absolutely amazing.
When he asked for it back i tried to talk him into selling it but he needed it so i gave it back and told him if he ever got rid of it let me know first.

I'm very surprised it wasn't recommended to you already! They do have medical grade TENS. Be prepared to spend $500-$800 for one. It will offer you more options on the electromagnetic therapy. But keep your therapy isolated to one area at a time. If you use too many (all over) it could possibly cause a seizure. But oh man, what a blessing the TENS unit is.

 

[The Cromwell]

As per usual, innocent patients suffer in the name of stopping drug abuse. Makes me so angry!

I hate pill heads and m*th heads.
And knee jerk politicians.

 

[5150sick]

The opiods is the big issue right now. I can't find one doctor, including my PCP of 48 years that will prescribe it. You pretty much have to have a new broken leg, arm or chest injury, etc. for them to prescribe it for pain. Even then, they will only dispense small amounts and maybe 1 refill, depending on the severity of the Dx since percocet and hydrocodone for example are very addictive.

 

[5150sick]

I hate pill heads and m*th heads.
And knee jerk politicians.

Dope fiends and cr*ck heads were the problem I had to deal with when I lived in Baltimore.
if you turned your back for a second they were stealing something.
as you try to stop the first one from stealing something another one sneaks up from another direction and steals something else...

 

[The Cromwell]

Most of the pill heads around here seem to have to switched to H*roin which is thinning them out fairly fast.

So I suppose after a fashion the anti opiate laws are working?

 

[f1r3b1rd]

As per usual, innocent patients suffer in the name of stopping drug abuse. Makes me so angry!

What's worse is that someone feels it is their job to protect those that can't protect themselves and hurt those that can in the process.

BAM crew

 

[The Cromwell]

What's worse is that someone feels it is their job to protect those that can't protect themselves and hurt those that can in the process.

BAM crew

Yeah and I live in a Red state....

No real difference in Red and Blue in lots of ways.

also in the Bible Belt....

 

[JuicyLucy]

Yeah and I live in a Red state....

No real difference in Red and Blue in lots of ways.

also in the Bible Belt....

The "tough on crime" bs

 

[JuicyLucy]

Mr Juicy's doctor wrote him out three different scripts for the same thing because as of Sept 1, doctors can no longer write scripts with refills for pain relievers

 

[The Cromwell]

The "tough on crime" bs

tough on little guy crime but corrupt as hell at the top.

 

[The Cromwell]

Mr Juicy's doctor wrote him out three different scripts for the same thing because as of Sept 1, doctors can no longer write scripts with refills for pain relievers

I think Pain clinics here can write maybe 2 refills?
the pain clinic route raised the cost of pain pills by a few thousand percent here.

 

[Ms. Trixy]

Dope fiends and cr*ck heads were the problem I had to deal with when I lived in Baltimore.
if you turned your back for a second they were stealing something.
as you try to stop the first one from stealing something another one sneaks up from another direction and steals something else...

Just thinking of being 20-30 gives me chills.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Mr Juicy's doctor wrote him out three different scripts for the same thing because as of Sept 1, doctors can no longer write scripts with refills for pain relievers

Must be a state thing.
From what the pharmacist told me:
For scheduled drugs: refills can be written but must be renewed every 6 fills, including the initial. For this reason most are trying to move to 90day scripts rather than 30.

BAM crew

 

[JuicyLucy]

Must be a state thing.
From what the pharmacist told me:
For scheduled drugs: refills can be written but must be renewed every 6 fills, including the initial. For this reason most are trying to move to 90day scripts rather than 30.

BAM crew

Yeah, ours is Alaska specific - and as retarded as I predicted it would be

Our first run in with it - totally dumb

 

[Dagoroth]

This isn't directed towards anyone, it's just what I am living with right now. There is a guy in the house that flaunts all these medical conditions to get pity, he is a coworker that I live with he uses his disabilities to his advantage. he isnt medically disabled at all, but goes in for checkups and to the hospital for MRI's two to three times a week for nothing. He also does this during his shift, pretty annoying. He makes all the people with actual disabilities look bad and it's sad. he throws all his Tommy Copper gear on when the bosses are around but the minute he wants to go out and do something for himself, like taking scrap to the scrap yard or to go to the store, he is all of a sudden able to walk easily and everything. If it weren't for me getting thrown out and losing my job he would actually be disabled when I got done with him. So anytime i ever see anyone say they are in so much pain I am a bit skeptic. It's crazy that one person doing this act can change another persons perspective of disabled people. I am still soft towards them in general but approach cautiously.

 

[The Cromwell]

This isn't directed towards anyone, it's just what I am living with right now. There is a guy in the house that flaunts all these medical conditions to get pity, he is a coworker that I live with he uses his disabilities to his advantage. he isnt medically disabled at all, but goes in for checkups and to the hospital for MRI's two to three times a week for nothing. He also does this during his shift, pretty annoying. He makes all the people with actual disabilities look bad and it's sad. he throws all his Tommy Copper gear on when the bosses are around but the minute he wants to go out and do something for himself, like taking scrap to the scrap yard or to go to the store, he is all of a sudden able to walk easily and everything. If it weren't for me getting thrown out and losing my job he would actually be disabled when I got done with him. So anytime i ever see anyone say they are in so much pain I am a bit skeptic. It's crazy that one person doing this act can change

I kinda feel that way about obese people in the handicapped carts at Wally world.....

I walk, hurts but I walk.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Yeah, ours is Alaska specific - and as retarded as I predicted it would be

Our first run in with it - totally dumb

I don't intend this to sound ignorant, but it probably will.
It sounds completely stupid to have a law that limiting in an area hard to get around for month at a time. How the hell can they force people who need certain meds to get around, able to get around more often to ensure these are medications of necessity, not recreation.

Just dumb.... Dumb dumb dumb.

BAM crew

 

[The Cromwell]

I don't intend this to sound ignorant, but it probably will.
It sounds completely stupid to have a law that limiting in an area hard to get around for month at a time. How the hell can they force people who need certain meds to get around, able to get around more often to ensure these are medications of necessity, not recreation.

Just dumb.... Dumb dumb dumb.

BAM crew

Closest pain clinic where I could get pain meds after paying a couple of thousand for MRI's and such that I have already had done is about 40 miles.
Also Drug tests for illegal drugs is required monthly.
so I you smoke a joint you deserve to hurt?

yes stupid.
Seems rampant in America though.

Seems clear to me why there is so much anti vaping sentiment in the towers of power.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I don't intend this to sound ignorant, but it probably will.
It sounds completely stupid to have a law that limiting in an area hard to get around for month at a time. How the hell can they force people who need certain meds to get around, able to get around more often to ensure these are medications of necessity, not recreation.

Just dumb.... Dumb dumb dumb.

BAM crew

Way, even the doctors are trying to find ways around it because its a PITA for them too

But to me it's just galling. Mr Juicy only takes the shit when he's really desperate for relief - he still has a full bottle he hasn't opened since he got in July

 

[The Cromwell]

So I am destroying my liver with Naproxen because I cannot get more effective less physically damaging drugs.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Closest pain clinic where I could get pain meds after paying a couple of thousand for MRI's and such that I have already had done is about 40 miles.

yes stupid.
Seems rampant in America though.

It is rampant for sure!
Down in NOLA, I stayed with the same medical group from the time of the 'accident' until i moved (6 years) and I have very few issues getting anything I needed. Fr standing frame to medications to car modifications.
Since I got to Ohio a year ago, every script has been a nightmare to get filled. One med was 20$ a month there and it's almost 600$ here. I stopped taking that one. The other ones went up but not enough to bitch. You would think that with certain diagnoses the medical community would understand that certain needs are required

BAM crew

 

[5150sick]

I don't intend this to sound ignorant, but it probably will.
It sounds completely stupid to have a law that limiting in an area hard to get around for month at a time. How the hell can they force people who need certain meds to get around, able to get around more often to ensure these are medications of necessity, not recreation.

Just dumb.... Dumb dumb dumb.

BAM crew

OH, They only give 30 days worth of pain meds with no refills down here in Central Florida
Plus I take a piss test every month when I see the pain management doctor.
They are looking for your meds to be in your system just as much as they are looking for any street drugs to not be in there too.
I was told early on that they don't test for the green stuff because if that can help a patient take less pain meds then so be it.

 

[5150sick]

Most of the pill heads around here seem to have to switched to ****** which is thinning them out fairly fast.

So I suppose after a fashion the anti opiate laws are working?

That's because the dealers are adding f*ntanyl to it.
A match head worth of that stuff is enough to kill an opioid naive patient and it's enough to have an opioid tolerant patient good to go.
The problem is when they mix it with the dope it doesn't mix exactly perfect so the f*ntanyl creates hot spots that are pure f*ntanyl.

So when a junkie buys a $20 bag of dope they may be getting 90% pure f*ntanyl and 10% shitty quality dope
Or it may be the other way around.

The junkie never knows until he/she uses it and either dies or barely feels it.

People have been dropping dead like flies in my old neighborhood in Baltimore since I left in 2009 and this along with the doctors being afraid to write scripts and sending people out into the streets to buy this shit has led to "the overdose epidemic"

It should be called "the overdose epidemic" because no one gave a shit before people starting dying around a decade ago.

That leaves A LOT of the people that the doctors got hooked on their pills in the mid to early 90's fucked.

 

[JuicyLucy]

It is rampant for sure!
Down in NOLA, I stayed with the same medical group from the time of the 'accident' until i moved (6 years) and I have very few issues getting anything I needed. Fr standing frame to medications to car modifications.
Since I got to Ohio a year ago, every script has been a nightmare to get filled. One med was 20$ a month there and it's almost 600$ here. I stopped taking that one. The other ones went up but not enough to bitch. You would think that with certain diagnoses the medical community would understand that certain needs are required

BAM crew

That is what gets me

I think most doctors mainly get it, but the pharmacists, insurance companies and worst of all, lawmakers, forget it

You have to suffer because there are hypes and pushers out there. They are hard to catch, you, who through no fault of your own are injured, are easy prey.

They dick with guys like you so they can point and show the "war on drugs" is being won, when idiots are still out there overdosing in traffic with kids in the car

 

[f1r3b1rd]

That is what gets me

I think most doctors mainly get it, but the pharmacists, insurance companies and worst of all, lawmakers, forget it

You have to suffer because there are hypes and pushers out there. They are hard to catch, you, who through no fault of your own are injured, are easy prey.

They dick with guys like you so they can point and show the "war on drugs" is being won, when idiots are still out there overdosing in traffic with kids in the car

I don't know that it's the pharmacist so much as the lawmakers appeasing the voting public screaming. The screaming for someone to do something against addiction is louder than the screaming from people with a legitimate need for medication.

The solution is to please the louder audience by adding more layers of red tape. They can still say that we have access to the drugs, we just have to take more time from work to get them. All the while the addict just goes to the black market more. Let alone I know of a few people with a legitimate need that have also gone to the black market; because, they couldn't get their scripts in time. That's safe, right? A friend of mine had issues getting his warfarin. He got them on loaner, thankfully. But that's the kind of thing that can cause major issues.

BAM crew

 

[The Cromwell]

I have pretty much given up on the system for any help with pain control.
Kind of a slow race to see if my liver fails or quality of life gets to be not worth enduring first.

 

[UncleRJ]

I need to track down a medical grade tens unit.
Not one of those pieces of shit Chinese things that takes batteries or plugs in with a usb cord but a REAL tens unit that plugs into the wall at 120 volts.
My friend Dominick had one when i lived up North because he was born with a back disorder.
He let me borrow it for about six months and it worked just like the ones at physical therapy.
It was absolutely amazing.
When he asked for it back i tried to talk him into selling it but he needed it so i gave it back and told him if he ever got rid of it let me know first.

I have one that works with two AA batteries and was provided to me by my insurance.

The result is the same as the hospital device used in my therapy sessions that was plugged into the wall socket.

I have the manual hidden here someplace and I will look it up for you.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

OH, They only give 30 days worth of pain meds with no refills down here in Central Florida
Plus I take a piss test every month when I see the pain management doctor.
They are looking for your meds to be in your system just as much as they are looking for any street drugs to not be in there too.
I was told early on that they don't test for the green stuff because if that can help a patient take less pain meds then so be it.

That's something I haven't tried. Mostly because when I was in school, I was interning at a hospital and hoping to get work fixing medical equipment.
The last thing I wanted was to have that on my resume.

I do know several people that get solace in that, however. When my grandmother was at stage4 with her cancer the oncologist told her to call her grandkids to get advice on it. Nothing like seeing grandma watching home shopping Network in that state.

BAM crew

 

[pulsevape]

Hey Tom!
Great idea for a thread bro.

Most know but for those that don't:

7 years ago -my anniversary just passed on 9/13.
I was jogging when I was hit by a four door Toyota tundra traveling at 65mph(according to the DOT ANALYSIS).
I was in a coma 3 weeks, had a subdural hematoma in my frontal lobe, severed femoral artery, severe spine at the t12/l1 and shattered my femor, tibia and fibula.
After several months in ICU followed by physical and occupational therapy I was left with only being rendered a paraplegic. After that experience I went back to school to earn my electrical engineering degree. The head injury helped -lol. I've also met my future wife(through this forum), and have gotten most of my life back together.

Alot of things in life had to come together to keep me on this planet. Luckily an off duty emt from a chemical plant saw the entire thing and pulled over and saved my life.
I do have chronic phantom pain and spasms; but, other than that life is always looking up.... And so am I

Damn Bird that is brutal.I hope they got the guy....one of my nephews got killed riding his bicycle by a drunk driver.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Damn Bird that is brutal.I hope they got the guy....one of my nephews got killed riding his bicycle by a drunk driver.

They did...
She was an uninsured 24 year old driving with her 3 year old son.

She got a ticket for wreckless driving.
Yes, wreckless driving that is it.
She owned no property at all so there was nothing to pursue in a lawsuit.
But, I did take legal action just to make that point, despite knowing there was nothing to execute the judgement on.
- you know that whole principal of the thing.

 

[pulsevape]

They did...
She was an uninsured 24 year old driving with her 3 year old son.

She got a ticket for wreckless driving.
Yes, wreckless driving that is it.
She owned no property at all so there was nothing to pursue in a lawsuit.
But, I did take legal action just to make that point, despite knowing there was nothing to execute the judgement on.
- you know that whole principal of the thing.

the guy who killed my nephew hit two other people put them in the hospital, and then just drove home....he's sitting in a jail cell now for a whole lotta years......it wasn't the first time he'd been busted for DUI.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

the guy who killed my nephew hit two other people put them in the hospital, and then just drove home....he's sitting in a jail cell now for a whole lotta years......it wasn't the first time he'd been busted for DUI.

Sorry to hear about your nephew. Yet, damn glad that driver is in jail!
Zero tolerance for driving while intoxicated (alcohol or any other mind altering substance)

In my case the driver passed the field test.... Dumbass was texting while driving.

 

[5150sick]

They did...
She was an uninsured 24 year old driving with her 3 year old son.

She got a ticket for wreckless driving.
Yes, wreckless driving that is it.
She owned no property at all so there was nothing to pursue in a lawsuit.
But, I did take legal action just to make that point, despite knowing there was nothing to execute the judgement on.
- you know that whole principal of the thing.

It can never just once be the filthy rich guy in the Mercedes can it?
Nope, it has to be the fucking poor chick in the Ford Festiva

 

[f1r3b1rd]

It can never just once be the filthy rich guy in the Mercedes can it?
Nope, it has to be the fucking poor chick in the Ford Festiva

Roger that!
I'm always telling Shannon she needs to throw me out the chair in front of a FedEx truck. -lmao

 

[pulsevape]

Sorry to hear about your nephew. Yet, damn glad that driver is in jail!
Zero tolerance for driving while intoxicated (alcohol or any other mind altering substance)

In my case the driver passed the field test.... Dumbass was texting while driving.

fuck that same as DUI as far as I'm concerned...even worse.

 

[5150sick]

Sorry to hear about your nephew. Yet, damn glad that driver is in jail!
Zero tolerance for driving while intoxicated (alcohol or any other mind altering substance)

In my case the driver passed the field test.... Dumbass was texting while driving.

Texting while driving should have a higher penalty than a DUI.
At least a DUI driver's mind is fooled into thinking they may be able to drive well.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

fuck that same as DUI as far as I'm concerned...even worse.

Texting while driving should have a higher penalty than a DUI.
At least a DUI driver's mind is fooled into thinking they may be able to drive well.

I totally agree!
I'm glad to see that some jurisdictions are enforcing laws on it.
Im always shocked to see how many other patients are injured as a result of that. From what I've experienced, the numbers are probably similar to that of drug and alcohol related incidents.

 

[pulsevape]

Texting while driving should have a higher penalty than a DUI.
At least a DUI driver's mind is fooled into thinking they may be able to drive well.

I totally agree!
I'm glad to see that some jurisdictions are enforcing laws on it.
Im always shocked to see how many other patients are injured as a result of that. From what I've experienced, the numbers are probably similar to that of drug and alcohol related incidents.

It is mind boggeling common around here...what is worse is the one who walk out into traffic staring at a screen.....

 

[inspects]

Many suffering from one thing or another. One thing I do know, you're all GOOD people...!

It's kind of blessing to have met so many good down to earth folks on this forum.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

It is mind boggeling common around here...what is worse is the one who walk out into traffic staring at a screen.....

That one almost makes me laugh.
When I was in school, I would sit outside the engineering building and watch drivers have to dodge the kids 'texting and walking' through the parking lot.
I was amazed at the complete lack of concern with the world around them

 

[AndriaD]

Texting while driving should have a higher penalty than a DUI.
At least a DUI driver's mind is fooled into thinking they may be able to drive well.

And even phone calls, while driving, need to be hands-free only -- even if one doesn't have a new enough car to have it built into the vehicle, there is bluetooth, dash-mount gizmos, and phones will operate via vocal commands. People don't have to be texting to be a hazard, maybe they're just looking to see who's calling them... Taking your eyes off the road for more than 3 seconds, or even less in heavy traffic, can be the difference between an uneventful commute... and vehicular homicide.

Andria

 

[The Cromwell]

Texting, Facedbook, Tweeting....

the zombie Apocalypse is upon us.

 

[The Cromwell]

I do not think that many understand the true horrors of the after math of Irma in Florida.
I mean virtually none of the wireless carriers had backup power and with the power off for a week or so with no texting, tweeting and such for that long.
Well Florida has brought in as many psychiatrists as they can find to help with the aftermath....

Verizon is the only carrier that I know of that routinely has backup generators for their cell towers.

 

[Raymcconn]

And even phone calls, while driving, need to be hands-free only -- even if one doesn't have a new enough car to have it built into the vehicle, there is bluetooth, dash-mount gizmos, and phones will operate via vocal commands. People don't have to be texting to be a hazard, maybe they're just looking to see who's calling them... Taking your eyes off the road for more than 3 seconds, or even less in heavy traffic, can be the difference between an uneventful commute... and vehicular homicide.

The kid who hit my brother was messing with his radio, my brother was on the side of the road and the car swerved onto the shoulder and sent my brother 20 feet and his motorcycle 30. It was not a light bike either. So you are very correct by saying taking your eyes off the road for any amount of time can change someone's life forever. My brother is alive but has a lot of therapy to go through and we are told his traumatic brain injury may or may not heal.

 

[AndriaD]

The kid who hit my brother was messing with his radio, my brother was on the side of the road and the car swerved onto the shoulder and sent my brother 20 feet and his motorcycle 30. It was not a light bike either. So you are very correct by saying taking your eyes off the road for any amount of time can change someone's life forever. My brother is alive but has a lot of therapy to go through and we are told his traumatic brain injury may or may not heal.

Yeah... I was the idiot who caused the wreck once, while looking for my LIGHTER! Fortunately it wasn't a motorcycle I hit, but a Dodge Dart -- and she saw me in her rearview, so took her foot off the brake, which no doubt saved us both a lot of bodily injury, though it still managed to total both cars. But that incident, and taking the state's defensive driver course, made me a much better and safer driver.

Andria