Holy shit forgot about those. it was more of a girl thing. That and friendship bracelets, and friendship pins on the shoes.Gum wrapper chains were a big thing when I was growing up, lol
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I still have the pins my niece made for me.
AndriaD
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I kinda go along with this, but that "make it seem that you care for him/her" gives me a real problem. It's like, fool your kid into thinking that you actually care about him, before you whoop his ass. Maybe that's not what was intended, but that's how it reads.
My general feeling, based on my own experience when I was kid, is that if parents go all authoritarian on adolescents, "thou shalt not," then whatever you're forbidding will be the very first thing they wanna go and do, as soon as they're out the door. That sort of authoritarian stance may work great on 2-10 yr olds, but once they hit adolescence, it just won't work; they don't have good judgment, most of them, but they do have strong opinions and one of their primary opinions is "you're not the boss of me!" and if you try to be, too abrasively, it's highly counterproductive.
If you do love your son, and I'm guessing that you do, I would suggest trying to get as much info as you can -- not just about WHAT he's doing, but WHY he's doing it. Is he succumbing to peer pressure? Is he feeling alienated, whether by situations in the home, or situations with his peers at school? Is he merely curious? Is he so unhappy that ANY sort of different sensation is preferable to what he actually feels? That last was my own gateway into substance abuse, and I had the kind of parents who had the attitude that i should be GRATEFUL, I had NO RIGHT to be unhappy dammit, and they just weren't going to stand for it! Or even notice it. So I changed my feelings in any way that I could, with booze and drugs, with sex, with anything I could find. And barely managed to graduate at all, with a 2.3 GPA -- though I had 1170 on the SAT -- I was neither stupid nor really unmotivated, just so unhappy that school seemed irrelevant. If your son is that sort of unhappy, then I agree that something should be done, ASAP, but bullying him with your parental authority isn't what is needed.
Andria
AndriaD, very insightful - thank you for the reply. I do think he is unhappy and I do love him and want the best for him. Many of those things regarding your parents is exactly how I feel! He has *everything* he could ever want or need. Unfortunately, he will not have the SAT scores that you had and he's failing in a couple of classes - one is WebTech which he claims that he loves. He like a clam however. Asking him WHAT he's feeling or WHY he's feeling has yielded very little results. The only thing he's said multiple times is that he hates learning. I remember struggling in school and the only thing I wanted was to enter to work force - boy, was that stupid in hindsight. Luckily, I had decent grades and a decent SAT score. He's in a much larger and difficult school than I. Additionally, he's interested in a girl so, moving schools seems unreasonable too, especially this late in the game. Bullying is the last thing that I want to do however, vaping in the house with his little brothers around is unacceptable and needs consequences - wouldn't you agree? Life changing consequences, no . . . just take away phone and black ops for a few days. Next, he'll have this license this summer and the car will be subject too. I'm open to other ideas or opinions. With respect to school, we hired tutors over the last 4 months and grades have decreased. He's been refusing to follow organizational techniques from his tutor however, he agrees that they are helpful. I suspect failing grades just means that he needs to use (and we verify) the organizational techniques before he's allowed on Black Ops that night. Furthermore, take the computer stuff out of his room and put it in our office downstairs, etc. His dark closed off room seems to be a trigger for the vaping in the house to me. Again, open to insight or opinion. Cracking open the clam seems to be the million dollar question here . . . maybe he should just get a job - he's not busy enough.
Fixed it, that wasnt what I was trying to say, it sounded different when I was typing it...
I have gone through addiction and more and I hid it from everyone as I was ashamed of myself and I didnt want anyone to know...no one even knew of anything until I ended up in the hospital. After a long talk with my mother, she brought me in for help and since almost 7 years ago Ive been on Suboxone and I havent had a craving or reason to use again. Depending on what it is it can be easy to pull off of but then there are things like opiates, alcohol, and methamphetamines where its impossible without constant attention, an out patient program, or a detox program. I know how hard it is to talk to someone about it and when someone brings it up you instantly become defensive and push them away, its only because that person is sick, ashamed, needs help, and wants it but at the same time does not. With some comfort and positive reinforcement the issue can be resolved-you also must find out why were they using in the first place, what reason did they have and why did they continue. Are they dependent on the substance now?
If they are dependent then they will need professional care and a program to help them ween off or be prescribed something to combat the cravings and physical withdrawal. Withdrawal isnt something to take likely, opiate and alcohol withdrawals can cause seizures and can possibly cause death...
Not to even say thats whats going on but remember to try to see through their perspectives as well as your own, learn as much as you can and be easy on them-If its been going on for awhile they might not be using it for "fun" anymore and may possibly need it just to function now...until they get help.
He may be just going through some issues and that could also be the reason his grades are decreasing, at that age anything and everything can cause them to be careless and reckless....Teenagers...
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AndriaD
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Hmm... Let me just say that my own son suffered (as I did, though it was unknown then) a really bad case of ADD -- organizational techniques are good, but if one's BRAIN is disorganized, they can only go so far -- but I never even CONSIDERED medicating him, with that ritalin crap or anything along those lines -- when a teacher once suggested it, I told her to mind her own business, which was teaching, not parenting or medicine. In my own case, I started smoking cigarettes at the age of not-quite-14, and that was very likely the ONLY thing that allowed me to graduate at all. Because nicotine has an *organizing* effect on neurotransmitters (and tobacco contains MAOIs, which probably helped with some of my inherent unhappiness).
I was very happy that my son never smoked as an adolescent; he did start when he was 18, almost 19, in the Navy, and though it didn't please me, due to his bronchitis, there was nothing I could do about it, he was adult. But he told me that it had an IMMEDIATE AND DRASTIC effect on his ability to concentrate. So I would say that perhaps vaping is not the worst thing your son could be doing, if he is vaping ejuice with nicotine, and not some illicit substance -- if I had known how beneficial nicotine is to conditions like ADD, and vaping had existed when my son was a teen, I'd have bought him a vape myself, and yes, WITH nicotine, since that seems to be a fairly innocuous substance -- at least as innocuous as caffeine, which teens do consume without terrible ill effects.
I can understand your concerns regarding your younger children, and not wanting them to receive a negative role model from your older son, so if it's a case of him trying to self-medicate, perhaps vaping *could* be treated as a form of medicine -- medicine which is surely less harmful than giving a child the pharmaceutical equivalent (ritalin) of white-powder stimulants.
As for learning not being enjoyable to him... that's on you. Take him cool places -- museums, planetariums, take him out in the middle of the night to view meteor showers (I did that when my son was 13, he loved it!) -- take him to the library and let him read anything his heart desires -- one can learn something from any book one reads! On TV, view interesting shows on Nova, Discovery, NatGeo, Animal Planet, etc etc etc.... Learning CAN be fun, but it needs to be presented as fun, not as learning -- let the learning be the sly side-effect. He has a girlfriend, so perhaps some learning about about reproduction and how to prevent it would be some good learning for him.
And also some learning about the role that hormones play, and why intellectual pursuits seem so irrelevant when one's sex drive is in hyperdrive. The major problem my son faced was that school was *boring* to him -- the constant, endless repetition, for the benefit of those who don't learn quickly as he does -- that drove him nuts as it did me; I finally just had to explain to him why it was necessary for those other kids, and that he had to "play the game" as the teacher directed, if he wanted to get the hell out of that boring school. It was a constant battle, just getting him to do and turn in the busywork homework, and when I found out he had managed to pass 12th grade, I lay down and cried, from pure relief.
But don't dismiss vaping out of hand -- it's possible he does need it, to help organize those wayward neurotransmitters, and if vaping nicotine can help him get himself in gear and get the job done, I think it's a very small price to pay, healthwise -- it may help keep him from smoking cigarettes, using drugs, and other far less wholesome activities. he might not need whopping doses of it, for it to be effective -- nothing like what a smoker might need, to get past withdrawal -- 3-6mg might make all the difference, in his ability to *get* and *stay* organized.
Andria
ETA: Also -- I agree, taking those entertainments out of his room is probably a good idea -- we had to remove a TV from our son's room, for the same reason. It kept his TV watching and game playing front and center in the living room, which was annoying at times, but it allowed me to know what he was doing pretty much all the time, and gave me some ability to put the hammer down on games like Grand Theft auto -- a biggie in the 90s and early 2000s!
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Poppa (K)
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very good question. that would answer a lot of Dad's concerns.
Just throwing it out there, the juices that contain... stuff... that can be used in these types of vaporizers do not have a very strong smell and it doesn't linger. The only way I'd be able to easily tell is the taste, other than that it could truly just be a funky smell from a boys room. But, as suggested earlier a little hit could easily rule that out if the person tasting it knows the taste of what they're looking for. Thankfully I've kicked that habit myself but I can tell you I can barely tell when my buddies are using those or their normal nicotine vapes, sometimes I get a slight smell of that funk but even in the same room often I wouldn't have known. But, you will see the droopy eyelids (though he could just be tired, especially if he's a gamer staying up all night like I was at that age).
Yea Ive sampled some myself but it wasnt for me....Im not a fan of that genre of stuff anymore and havent been in years..
AndriaD
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Another thought came to mind, about ways to engage a kid's mind, maybe give them motivation -- I never expected it, but my son developed an interest in singing (probably mainly because we couldn't afford to buy him a musical instrument), so he joined the chorus. In middle school, his teacher thought he was best qualified to be the lead, Tevye, in their production of Fiddler on the Roof. Given that he was really struggling with some of his classes in middle school, I was more than a little skeptical, but I received his promise that working on the musical wouldn't take him away from his other classes, and the teacher confirmed that if he was failing anything, he would be disqualified from performing. So I let him go ahead, with those understandings. He did brilliantly in the play (try to imagine a 13 yr old southern boy mimicing a perfect Yiddish accent!), he did pass all his classes, and he remained interested in singing all thru high school -- and he had to stay passing to perform with the Honors Chorus or go to Allstate. That was about the only way I could motivate him to get that dreary homework done -- the thought of not going to Allstate terrified him!
Andria
Andria
Ditto, but, I'm still impressed with how faint it was, I mean mix that with some of the juices I've used and I doubt even a trained nose/tongue could tell.
Ok, so this is now as far as we are going to allow on the unknown substance chatter, You all were great in how you posted to keep the drug references and posts about it down.I think the OP has enough info to go on, with out it getting into others folks experiences.
I am sure he now will take from it what he can. Thanks again, to all who helped out.
I am sure he now will take from it what he can.
Thanks again, to all who helped out.
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Amazing how much an extracurricular enhances scores. Now of course if they're a strait A student studying 4-6 hours a night it may be the opposite but if they're unmotivated and slacking, well now they have a reason. I know I always did enough to stay playing Football/Wrestling, and I had a few friends that dropped out of school once they quit their sports. It's quite a positive thing.
Well, I found a test at Walgreens called Touch and Know that mixes chemicals with substances. I cut pieces of the tissue and stuffed them into the testing vial. All tested negative for anything illegal. He is still denying any knowledge of the Vape Pen which is mind boggling and his phone has been taken away through this Easter weekend. He's already gone around our back and found an iPad to continue talking with his friends. This was found and he was outed. He claimed that he didn't realize that this was the punishment - playing stupid games with us still. Anyway, I'm an IT guys so, I'll continue to circumvent any efforts until his punishment is completed. However, he failed English and French as of yesterday. XBox and Computer are out of his room - probably for the remainder of high school. @BigNasty Door to his room is still intact although next time it will be off.
From other information sources, I am pretty sure that he has at least experimented and I get that. Nobody has come down hard but, it has been discussed so much that he knows it's a big deal - especially his grades. My sister has dealt with more extreme issues and she lives down the street. Next time I smell something she asked to come smell it which will help identify anything common with the teens around here. I've got some good support in place.
Extracurricular activities - I agree! I'm gonna be really tired over the next few years keeping him busy. Whew!
A couple of lessons for new teenager parents:
It's much easier giving privileges than taking them away.
It's much easier continuing extracurricular activities than, restarting them.
Its much easier talking to them pro-actively than, after the fact.
Your significant other or ex will likely see things differently. Talk about it before it happens. It's much easier.
It's difficult to hold your kids to a higher standard than you met when you were there age.
There isn't an easy or fast forward button. There isn't one solution either.
More to come . . . (unless the rules prohibit it )
From other information sources, I am pretty sure that he has at least experimented and I get that. Nobody has come down hard but, it has been discussed so much that he knows it's a big deal - especially his grades. My sister has dealt with more extreme issues and she lives down the street. Next time I smell something she asked to come smell it which will help identify anything common with the teens around here. I've got some good support in place.
Extracurricular activities - I agree! I'm gonna be really tired over the next few years keeping him busy. Whew!
A couple of lessons for new teenager parents:
It's much easier giving privileges than taking them away.
It's much easier continuing extracurricular activities than, restarting them.
Its much easier talking to them pro-actively than, after the fact.
Your significant other or ex will likely see things differently. Talk about it before it happens. It's much easier.
It's difficult to hold your kids to a higher standard than you met when you were there age.
There isn't an easy or fast forward button. There isn't one solution either.
More to come . . . (unless the rules prohibit it
)
Thank god you're an IT right? I used to laugh at the locks and what not my parents would do on my internet privileges. I felt bad for my uncle when he was trying to block his kid because he knows nothing about computers and kids now at least have some inherent knowledge just from growing up in this time. Gotta feel bad for those parents without the technical know-how.
AndriaD
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Only one thing comes to mind at this point... Punishing really isn't helpful, especially for things like failing grades or failing classes; it's like punishing someone for a disability. If a kid is smart enough to do something, yet isn't doing it... clearly, he has a problem, and simply punishing him isn't going to fix it. Taking away privileges is one thing -- like TV or games -- but depriving a kid of their only outlet -- like talking to their friends.... well... that seems to fall into the cruel and unusual category -- that outlet may be the only thing keeping him sane. Keeping him from talking to his friends isn't going to force him to talk to you, but it certainly will make him resent you more -- counterproductive.
Punishment, coercion, punitive measures... it turns you into a bully instead of a parent. Perhaps a family shrink would be more adept at getting answers from him, but trying to force him.... just makes the whole thing worse; he will grow more and more resentful, until you have something truly awful going on -- drugs, quitting school, running away (just to get away from the bully at home!). If somehow he manages to get by until he does graduate... at that point he may leave and you may not ever see him again... at least not for a decade or more. I can't see that as a good thing. My parents did the whole punishment/coercion thing.... and they wonder why I still don't like to spend any time with them. Their memories are selective; they really don't remember what a hell they made of my teen years... or, they think that they were right to act that way, and that I should "be over it." Those kinds of hurts never go away.
Andria
Punishment, coercion, punitive measures... it turns you into a bully instead of a parent. Perhaps a family shrink would be more adept at getting answers from him, but trying to force him.... just makes the whole thing worse; he will grow more and more resentful, until you have something truly awful going on -- drugs, quitting school, running away (just to get away from the bully at home!). If somehow he manages to get by until he does graduate... at that point he may leave and you may not ever see him again... at least not for a decade or more. I can't see that as a good thing. My parents did the whole punishment/coercion thing.... and they wonder why I still don't like to spend any time with them. Their memories are selective; they really don't remember what a hell they made of my teen years... or, they think that they were right to act that way, and that I should "be over it." Those kinds of hurts never go away.
Andria
ugh REMOVED, I'll just leave it as a big UGH.
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Had a friend of my cousin go ballistic ape shit on REMOVED and assaulted a cop while he had a pile in his pocket on top of it.
Still have no idea how he is not getting too play "guard thy anus" under measure 11. He was facing 25 years at 18..
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doh, think we're talking 2 different "REMOVED" I had forgotten about that one. I was thinking the "legal alternative" REMOVED that I know a few military buddies were using, it's not the chew people's faces stuff (though I think those news stories were the salts).
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Nope same same, alter it enough and alter the brain chemistry.. does not show illegal but still make people bat shit.
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Ohh geez, it's worse than I thought then. Glad my buddies got off that. I hadn't heard of any of that till much later and had just assumed it was a different thing.
Nope vice I think did a piece on ***** use in the UK.
I have seen people with severe DT and people with Parkinson's and Huntington's shake less.
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reiterating that we need to keep the substance talk out.Ok, so this is now as far as we are going to allow on the unknown substance chatter, You all were great in how you posted to keep the drug references and posts about it down.I think the OP has enough info to go on, with out it getting into others folks experiences.
I am sure he now will take from it what he can.
thank you
Poppa (K)
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Well, I found a test at Walgreens called Touch and Know that mixes chemicals with substances. I cut pieces of the tissue and stuffed them into the testing vial. All tested negative for anything illegal. He is still denying any knowledge of the Vape Pen which is mind boggling and his phone has been taken away through this Easter weekend. He's already gone around our back and found an iPad to continue talking with his friends. This was found and he was outed. He claimed that he didn't realize that this was the punishment - playing stupid games with us still. Anyway, I'm an IT guys so, I'll continue to circumvent any efforts until his punishment is completed. However, he failed English and French as of yesterday. XBox and Computer are out of his room - probably for the remainder of high school. @BigNasty Door to his room is still intact although next time it will be off.
From other information sources, I am pretty sure that he has at least experimented and I get that. Nobody has come down hard but, it has been discussed so much that he knows it's a big deal - especially his grades. My sister has dealt with more extreme issues and she lives down the street. Next time I smell something she asked to come smell it which will help identify anything common with the teens around here. I've got some good support in place.
Extracurricular activities - I agree! I'm gonna be really tired over the next few years keeping him busy. Whew!
A couple of lessons for new teenager parents:
It's much easier giving privileges than taking them away.
It's much easier continuing extracurricular activities than, restarting them.
Its much easier talking to them pro-actively than, after the fact.
Your significant other or ex will likely see things differently. Talk about it before it happens. It's much easier.
It's difficult to hold your kids to a higher standard than you met when you were there age.
There isn't an easy or fast forward button. There isn't one solution either.
More to come . . . (unless the rules prohibit it
i'm so glad those years are behind me, whew!