Old Pharts Club

[AndriaD]

Yep that is it, not a full blown cramp but something that could lead to it?

Yeah, very possible. What always gets my legs cramping is that instinctive sort of stretching you do when you first start to wake up -- I've even seen my cat do it, so apparently it's a cross-species instinct, to stretch on waking -- when I do it, it very often leads to godawful cramps in my legs. The "shin-splits" are the most common, drawing my toes upward, but what is easily the most painful is when I get the charley-horse in the calf, then flex in the other direction and get the shin-splints -- a cramp in both direction gets me out of bed in a flash and a roar of profanity.

The other most-painful is the one I had this morning -- feel it first in the very center of the knee joint, but it's actually a very long muscle that goes from the back of the knee up the inside of the thigh and around the front to its attachment somewhere on the hip -- when they get really bad, they move up from the knee to the inner thigh, and THAT is agony, and then hurts for days afterward.

Andria

 

[nadalama]

Yeah, very possible. What always gets my legs cramping is that instinctive sort of stretching you do when you first start to wake up -- I've even seen my cat do it, so apparently it's a cross-species instinct, to stretch on waking -- when I do it, it very often leads to godawful cramps in my legs. The "shin-splits" are the most common, drawing my toes upward, but what is easily the most painful is when I get the charley-horse in the calf, then flex in the other direction and get the shin-splints -- a cramp in both direction gets me out of bed in a flash and a roar of profanity.

The other most-painful is the one I had this morning -- feel it first in the very center of the knee joint, but it's actually a very long muscle that goes from the back of the knee up the inside of the thigh and around the front to its attachment somewhere on the hip -- when they get really bad, they move up from the knee to the inner thigh, and THAT is agony, and then hurts for days afterward.

Andria

Good Lord. It sounds like you need some Flexeril or Gabapentin - something. That sounds awful.

I only get cramps when I point my toes (usually because of stretching, like you said). All I have to do to get rid of the cramp is stand up and walk it off.

Are you sure you don't have some kind of electrolyte imbalance?

 

[AndriaD]

Thank you Cromwell, Artemis, and Andria.

I said in another post somewhere on this thread that when I was younger, I was crazy. I mean that quite literally. Don't feel like I'm crazy any more, and don't really know what changed, but I shudder to think what might have happened if I'd had a gun back then. I'd probably have shot my husband quite thoroughly dead.

My sister has major depressive disorder and is also addicted to opiates. She takes enough medicine every day to choke a horse. I don't think it would ever be in her nature to hurt another person - she never has - but there have been times when she could barely drag herself out of bed, and it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that if she'd had a firearm then, she wouldn't be in this world now.

So many families are affected by this, but it's such a taboo subject for discussion, that you could work or socialize with people for years and never know what's going on in the background of their lives.

Argh. Such a massive set of problems, such elusive answers, so much money needed for resources to take care of people.

And it's totally stupid that it should be a taboo, likewise alcoholism -- when one is an alcoholic, it's generally quite apparent to everyone BUT the alcoholic for quite some time before anything is done about it, if ever anything IS done about it. I feel zero shame revealing myself as a recovering alcoholic -- in August, I'll be sober 26 yrs -- twice as long as I was drunk! And revealing my MDD, anxiety, and PTSD is also not taboo, because I have more or less triumphed over those, though it's an ongoing battle.

The stupid shit that people say to those who are depressed -- "snap out of it! get over it! cheer up!" I wonder if they say that kind of stupid shit to diabetics, or asthmatics? When Robin Williams died, from what looked at the time to be suicide (though I think they've since decided that it was an accidental OD of antidepressants, same as Heath Ledger), my husband, who should damn well know better, said "What in the world did he have to be depressed about?" I screamed at him, "IT'S NOT A MOOD, IT'S AN ILLNESS! YOU MORON!" When the brain chemicals are fucked up, it's going to have a GRAVE effect!!!

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Good Lord. It sounds like you need some Flexeril or Gabapentin - something. That sounds awful.

I only get cramps when I point my toes (usually because of stretching, like you said). All I have to do to get rid of the cramp is stand up and walk it off.

Are you sure you don't have some kind of electrolyte imbalance?

I'm quite sure I do, an ongoing problem; I drink coconut water daily, and that has gotten rid of my "cankles", but I'm thinking now that I'm past menopause, it might have more to do with calcium, and calcium is CRUCIAL for proper functioning of everything in the body. So I keep trying to find more ways to include more milk and milk products in my diet, but I'm thinking I may need a supplement -- hopefully something other than pills the size of a baby's head. I couldn't take those even when I was pregnant! So I drank 3 gals of milk a week instead. Unfortunately, that much milk NOW would make me fat, so I gotta find some other way to get more calcium.

Andria

 

[nadalama]

I'm quite sure I do, an ongoing problem; I drink coconut water daily, and that has gotten rid of my "cankles", but I'm thinking now that I'm past menopause, it might have more to do with calcium, and calcium is CRUCIAL for proper functioning of everything in the body. So I keep trying to find more ways to include more milk and milk products in my diet, but I'm thinking I may need a supplement -- hopefully something other than pills the size of a baby's head. I couldn't take those even when I was pregnant! So I drank 3 gals of milk a week instead. Unfortunately, that much milk NOW would make me fat, so I gotta find some other way to get more calcium.

Andria

How about Tums? Tums are a great source of calcium. Also take Vitamin D for absorption.

Also, my heartfelt congratulations to you on staying in recovery. 26 years, I hope you feel and own that accomplishment. My son just marked his 5th year and we are all so grateful and so proud of him. Don't know how you managed it, but my son went through 12-step programs, and the local group here basically helped save his life. I have no doubt that without incarceration and NA, he'd be long gone. It breaks my heart to even think about it.

I worked for just a few years with a man who drank himself to death at the age of 48. Left behind two children, the oldest of whom was only 13 at the time. Everyone in our office knew how serious his problem was, and everyone was polite about it. He'd talk about how long it had been since he drank, and we all knew he was drinking every day at lunchtime instead of eating. But no one confronted him, and he ended up dead. I swore then I would never stay quiet again around someone with a problem like that, but omg, it's such a volatile subject. Frankly, I don't really know what I'd do if a similar thing were to happen again.

 

[AndriaD]

How about Tums? Tums are a great source of calcium. Also take Vitamin D for absorption.

Also, my heartfelt congratulations to you on staying in recovery. 26 years, I hope you feel and own that accomplishment. My son just marked his 5th year and we are all so grateful and so proud of him. Don't know how you managed it, but my son went through 12-step programs, and the local group here basically helped save his life. I have no doubt that without incarceration and NA, he'd be long gone. It breaks my heart to even think about it.

I worked for just a few years with a man who drank himself to death at the age of 48. Left behind two children, the oldest of whom was only 13 at the time. Everyone in our office knew how serious his problem was, and everyone was polite about it. He'd talk about how long it had been since he drank, and we all knew he was drinking every day at lunchtime instead of eating. But no one confronted him, and he ended up dead. I swore then I would never stay quiet again around someone with a problem like that, but omg, it's such a volatile subject. Frankly, I don't really know what I'd do if a similar thing were to happen again.

I did the 12 step thing for the drinking, for the first few years; after about 5 yrs, it got sporadic, and since about 15 yrs or so, I rarely ever go -- but I know where to go when it becomes apparent that I need a meeting. After my mom died, I felt zero urge for a cigarette (I was just past 2 yrs smoke-free then), but damn, did I want some chemical numbness -- though I knew very damn well that rather than making me numb, it would just make me cry, a la my entire last year of drinking! So I went to a meeting. It was filled with 18-25 yr olds suffering the usual 18-25 yr old angst, but it helped me remember my own early sobriety, and how hard it was then, and how grateful I was that it was no longer such a struggle, it was my usual day-in and day-out. I was still hurting, and that went on for quite a while, and still sometimes comes like a blade out of nowhere, but I no longer felt that compulsion -- that Promise is my most-favorite, that my higher power is doing for me what I could not do for myself -- and it's totally true.

I more or less quit hard drugs on my own -- it was just after Len Bias' death, and everytime I started to use some of that white shit, I'd think "will it get me this time?" And pretty soon I wanted nothing more to do with it, my husband and I decided we wanted to be actual grownups, at the ages of 26 (me) and 34 (him), got married, and a month later, I got pregnant -- and never had any desire to use any of that deadly shit ever again, I had a baby to gestate and then to raise... he's 29 now.

Andria

 

[nadalama]

I did the 12 step thing for the drinking, for the first few years; after about 5 yrs, it got sporadic, and since about 15 yrs or so, I rarely ever go -- but I know where to go when it becomes apparent that I need a meeting. After my mom died, I felt zero urge for a cigarette (I was just past 2 yrs smoke-free then), but damn, did I want some chemical numbness -- though I knew very damn well that rather than making me numb, it would just make me cry, a la my entire last year of drinking! So I went to a meeting. It was filled with 18-25 yr olds suffering the usual 18-25 yr old angst, but it helped me remember my own early sobriety, and how hard it was then, and how grateful I was that it was no longer such a struggle, it was my usual day-in and day-out. I was still hurting, and that went on for quite a while, and still sometimes comes like a blade out of nowhere, but I no longer felt that compulsion -- that Promise is my most-favorite, that my higher power is doing for me what I could not do for myself -- and it's totally true.

I more or less quit hard drugs on my own -- it was just after Len Bias' death, and everytime I started to use some of that white shit, I'd think "will it get me this time?" And pretty soon I wanted nothing more to do with it, my husband and I decided we wanted to be actual grownups, at the ages of 26 (me) and 34 (him), got married, and a month later, I got pregnant -- and never had any desire to use any of that deadly shit ever again, I had a baby to gestate and then to raise... he's 29 now.

Andria

 

[JMB17]

Good Lord. It sounds like you need some Flexeril or Gabapentin - something. That sounds awful.

I only get cramps when I point my toes (usually because of stretching, like you said). All I have to do to get rid of the cramp is stand up and walk it off.

Are you sure you don't have some kind of electrolyte imbalance?

Oh Lord, from personal experience I will never ever ever recommend Gabapentin for anything, no matter how severe it is. Every neurologist I've been to recommended Gabapentin. My problem were not going away so they kept increasing and increasing my doses. I was so lethargic and confused all the time. I was admitted to the hospital for a few weeks and all the doctors there were so surprised that I was taking that many capsules. They reduced it to only 300mg and finally after a few months I was almost back to normal. It fucked up my life quite a bit. I'm only 23 and the doctors are treating me like a lab rat. My cousin (who is 14) was also prescribed gabapentin (I'm not sure what the exact dose what but I know it was very low) and she started becoming very confused also. At times she wouldn't even know where she is and why she's doing what she's doing. Worst medication ever. EVER.

 

[nadalama]

Oh Lord, from personal experience I will never ever ever recommend Gabapentin for anything, no matter how severe it is. Every neurologist I've been to recommended Gabapentin. My problem were not going away so they kept increasing and increasing my doses. I was so lethargic and confused all the time. I was admitted to the hospital for a few weeks and all the doctors there were so surprised that I was taking that many capsules. They reduced it to only 300mg and finally after a few months I was almost back to normal. It fucked up my life quite a bit. I'm only 23 and the doctors are treating me like a lab rat. My cousin (who is 14) was also prescribed gabapentin (I'm not sure what the exact dose what but I know it was very low) and she started becoming very confused also. At times she wouldn't even know where she is and why she's doing what she's doing. Worst medication ever. EVER.

It's a medication that different people react very differently to. I've had friends who couldn't tolerate it, who had the confusion and all that you describe, and others who swear it's the best thing since sliced bread. So you're right - for some people it can be a nightmare. Personally, I wouldn't be able to move the next day if I didn't take my Gabapentin before bed. I also can take it during the day and be fine to drive and unimpaired at my job, so since it works for me for pain, I guess I should consider myself lucky that I can do without narcotics. I should also say that my dosage is really low, comparatively. I take 600mg before bed.

I absolutely believe what you say, though. It isn't for everyone. Frankly I just didn't think about that when I made that suggestion to Andria, so thanks for reminding me.

 

[AndriaD]

It's a medication that different people react very differently to. I've had friends who couldn't tolerate it, who had the confusion and all that you describe, and others who swear it's the best thing since sliced bread. So you're right - for some people it can be a nightmare. Personally, I wouldn't be able to move the next day if I didn't take my Gabapentin before bed. I also can take it during the day and be fine to drive and unimpaired at my job, so since it works for me for pain, I guess I should consider myself lucky that I can do without narcotics. I should also say that my dosage is really low, comparatively. I take 600mg before bed.

I absolutely believe what you say, though. It isn't for everyone. Frankly I just didn't think about that when I made that suggestion to Andria, so thanks for reminding me.

My son takes it, for the nerve damage in his hip; it doesn't seem to impair him at all. But I'm not a fan of suppressing pain which is there to signal something; in most cases, if you take care of whatever the root cause is, the pain goes away -- I've struggled for fucking decades with this dehydration/electrolyte thing, and it seems completely insoluble; best I can hope for is to wake without cramps most of the time, and the times I do, that they pass quickly. When we watch movies, they know I have to get up and wander around about every 45 mins or so, or just sitting in one spot for too long can bring them on.

I don't have insurance, but even if I did, doctors are pretty much clueless about such things -- if they can't write a prescription for it, then to them, it doesn't exist. So I'm still on my own, trying to solve which electrolytes and in what proportion. When I get fed up with it and just give up, the cramps come back to remind me of why I have to keep after it. It really gets down to having to inhale salmeterol for my asthma twice a day, which only started when I switched from smoking to vaping -- the bronchodilators in cigarette tobacco, together with my rescue inhaler, was quite enough, but now I need the Advair too, and salmeterol is a potassium thief. Had the same problem back when it was only salmeterol, as Serevent, before they started putting it with a steroid as Advair. And of course, nobody's giving any research money to a possible cure for asthma, despite the fact that 25% of the population suffers from it, and it's still a leading cause of death among asthmatics -- breathing is kinda mandatory.

Andria

 

[nadalama]

My son takes it, for the nerve damage in his hip; it doesn't seem to impair him at all. But I'm not a fan of suppressing pain which is there to signal something; in most cases, if you take care of whatever the root cause is, the pain goes away -- I've struggled for fucking decades with this dehydration/electrolyte thing, and it seems completely insoluble; best I can hope for is to wake without cramps most of the time, and the times I do, that they pass quickly. When we watch movies, they know I have to get up and wander around about every 45 mins or so, or just sitting in one spot for too long can bring them on.

I don't have insurance, but even if I did, doctors are pretty much clueless about such things -- if they can't write a prescription for it, then to them, it doesn't exist. So I'm still on my own, trying to solve which electrolytes and in what proportion. When I get fed up with it and just give up, the cramps come back to remind me of why I have to keep after it. It really gets down to having to inhale salmeterol for my asthma twice a day, which only started when I switched from smoking to vaping -- the bronchodilators in cigarette tobacco, together with my rescue inhaler, was quite enough, but now I need the Advair too, and salmeterol is a potassium thief. Had the same problem back when it was only salmeterol, as Serevent, before they started putting it with a steroid as Advair. And of course, nobody's giving any research money to a possible cure for asthma, despite the fact that 25% of the population suffers from it, and it's still a leading cause of death among asthmatics -- breathing is kinda mandatory.

Andria

Well, you just explained why melatonin helps you sleep. The steroid in your asthma med. Have you read about the cortisol-melatonin cycle and how it controls the wake-sleep cycle? If not, it will be eye-opening, or eye-closing, as the case may be, but Google can explain it better than I can.

I'm sure you know about the effects of long-term steroid use, but as you said, breathing isn't optional.

Jeez, without insurance, how do you afford those dang inhalers and such? When I was prescribed an albuterol inhaler one winter when I had bronchitis five times, that thing was $66 even with my insurance. My PCP is convinced I have asthma, but I do not. I had one winter when I just couldn't stay well, but it hasn't happened since. He keeps asking me if I'm using my inhaler, and I say, Yes, when I need it, I am. Never mind he hasn't written me a scrip for one in about five years now.

 

[Artemis]

..

 

[AndriaD]

Well, you just explained why melatonin helps you sleep. The steroid in your asthma med. Have you read about the cortisol-melatonin cycle and how it controls the wake-sleep cycle? If not, it will be eye-opening, or eye-closing, as the case may be, but Google can explain it better than I can.

I'm sure you know about the effects of long-term steroid use, but as you said, breathing isn't optional.

Jeez, without insurance, how do you afford those dang inhalers and such? When I was prescribed an albuterol inhaler one winter when I had bronchitis five times, that thing was $66 even with my insurance. My PCP is convinced I have asthma, but I do not. I had one winter when I just couldn't stay well, but it hasn't happened since. He keeps asking me if I'm using my inhaler, and I say, Yes, when I need it, I am. Never mind he hasn't written me a scrip for one in about five years now.

Ventolin is now $80 per inhaler. But I got on GSK's patient assistance program about 8 yrs ago, due to a) not being employed, b) being low-ish income, and c) having no insurance... so I get both Ventolin and Advair totally gratis.

And yes, when I was using the 500/50 Advair, the steroid did keep me awake very badly, so I got my doc to write a scrip for 250/50 Advair (same salmeterol, but half as much steroid), and I use that one at night; it doesn't bother my sleeping so much.... but truthfully, I've struggled with insomnia my entire life; high dosage of steroid just made it worse -- when I had a bad case of bronchitis after my recent flu, my doc prescribed both antibiotics, and for some strange reason, also a course of prednisone -- my husband filled both of them for me, but I stuck the prednisone in the fridge and never took it -- for one thing, it seems entirely counterproductive to fight an infection with antibiotics while taking something that suppresses the immune system.. and also, I knew what it would do to my sleeping; that shit puts me on the freaking ceiling, so unless my eczema gets REALLY bad, I ain't taking it!

Andria

 

[Jimi]

Evening Old pharts

 

[The Cromwell]

evening Jimi.
How ya doin this wonderful evening?

 

[Lady Sarah]

Hey y'all


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[Draconigena]

Hmmmm... been logged in here for over 2 hours and nary a word. I was just about to go to bed due to lack of interest and you two three show up. So, what's happening?

 

[Lady Sarah]

Just watching twilight zone

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[Draconigena]

The first Hobbit movie is on the boob tube, but I can never say I am watching it. The TV just provides background noise while I am messing with this stupid computer.

 

[Jimi]

evening Jimi.
How ya doin this wonderful evening?

Hey Robert doing good so far buddy, thanks for asking.
How's your day going?

 

[Jimi]

Hey y'all


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Hi Sarah how's the world treating you today.

 

[The Cromwell]

Been watching the TonyB meltdown event and all the false outrage kneejerk response.

 

[Lady Sarah]

Hi Sarah how's the world treating you today.

Everything's just dandy in my neck of the woods

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[Jimi]

Hmmmm... been logged in here for over 2 hours and nary a word. I was just about to go to bed due to lack of interest and you two three show up. So, what;s happening?

Hi Rich, same ole here how about you?

 

[The Cromwell]

Hey Robert doing good so far buddy, thanks for asking.
How's your day going?

Ohh going ok. worked outside a bit cleaning out a shed. Was going to pull a junker car out of the way to get my 4x8 trailer out to haul fire debris but realized my chains and towstraps were in my workshop... Thought my towstrap was in the blazer...
Will go see a neighbor tomorrow who has a roll back and like to be given junk cars for scrap.

 

[Lady Sarah]

I gathered up some beaded jewelry I made a few years ago, and donated it to the food pantry, so they can sell it for money to buy food with.

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[Draconigena]

Hi Rich, same ole here how about you?

Well, temp got up to about 38 and no snow and, miraculously, very little wind, so I decided to burn garbage. We are so far out in the boonies that there is no garbage service, so we have "burnable" and "non-burnable" garbage. Aluminum cans get recycled once a year, but otherwise if it doesn't burn, it goes in my trash pit (a really big hole in the ground). The burnables, however, can only get burned when the weather cooperates, so I carried out about four months worth (upstairs house, downstairs house, garage, shop, horse barn, and cow barn) which I had piled up in a corner of the shop. It took nearly three hours to carry it all out (boy am I sore) and burn it. Still smoldering out there, but no visible flames left, and there a couple feet of snow all around the burn pile, so no worries.

 

[Jimi]

It was a nice day here too but I twisted my knee the other day and can barely hobble around, hurts like hell, so it could snowed all day and it wouldn't of made a difference to me.

 

[Lady Sarah]

If it snowed here, I'd be shocked to see more than 1/2 inch on the ground. Temp got up to 71 today.

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[Draconigena]

it could snowed all day and it wouldn't of made a difference to me.

My leg and shoulder still hurts a bit and all of today's walking (carrying heavy garbage) made my knees and my ankles hurt. Weather guessers are saying we're in for another blizzard tomorrow night, so maybe it was good for me to get this garbage crap out of the way today. I was hoping it might be warm again tomorrow (as if 38 is really "warm," but it's a damn sight better than the minus stuff from a few weeks ago) so maybe I could get the damn log splitter started. Well, they are saying the weekend will be warmer, so maybe I just have to wait...

EDIT: If I had Sarah's temperatures, I wouldn't have to worry about splitting firewood...

 

[Lady Sarah]

My leg and shoulder still hurts a bit and all of today's walking (carrying heavy garbage) made my knees and my ankles hurt. Weather guessers are saying we're in for another blizzard tomorrow night, so maybe it was good for me to get this garbage crap out of the way today. I was hoping it might be warm again tomorrow (as if 38 is really "warm," but it's a damn sight better than the minus stuff from a few weeks ago) so maybe I could get the damn log splitter started. Well, they are saying the weekend will be warmer, so maybe I just have to wait...

I known the cold makes aches and pains so much worse. Be careful.

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[Jimi]

If it snowed here, I'd be shocked to see more than 1/2 inch on the ground. Temp got up to 71 today.

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71 I could do 71

 

[Draconigena]

cold makes aches and pains so much worse

Yeah, cold isn't good when you have osteoarthritis in every joint of your body, but that's the temps here, so I just have to live with it.

 

[Lady Sarah]

71 I could do 71

Problem is that it's so dry here, several counties have burn bans. Even trying to barbecue is a huge risk.

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[Lady Sarah]

Wind got so bad over the weekend, Hubby's windmill got broken. Gotta see if I can weld some bolts onto it tomorrow so he can fix it

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[Jimi]

Problem is that it's so dry here, several counties have burn bans. Even trying to barbecue is a huge risk.

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Where are you at that it is that dry this time of year?

 

[Draconigena]

I had a BBQ once... maybe it is hiding under one of these snow drifts...

 

[Lady Sarah]

Where are you at that it is that dry this time of year?

West central Texas

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[Jimi]

Wind got so bad over the weekend, Hubby's windmill got broken. Gotta see if I can weld some bolts onto it tomorrow so he can fix it

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I use to like to weld, did it professionally for many years. I use to build and weld towers for cell phones and etc.My welds are all over the planet.

 

[Draconigena]

OK, so we have Texas, South Dakota, Illinois, and Kentucky here tonight. So no one will get overly offended by the cute picture I found today:


Rumor has it that most of the people leaving California are moving to Texas...

 

[Lady Sarah]

I use to like to weld, did it professionally for many years. I use to build and weld towers for cell phones and etc.My welds are all over the planet.

Hubby uses a wire welder, and is not proficient at penetration welds. I use a stick welder.

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[Lady Sarah]

OK, so we have Texas, South Dakota, Illinois, and Kentucky here tonight. So no one will get overly offended by the cute picture I found today:

View attachment 106457

They need one of those near ElPaso as well. Border patrol station is just north of ElPaso, so only the cops can look for illegals there.

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[Draconigena]

I use to like to weld, did it professionally for many years. I use to build and weld towers for cell phones and etc.My welds are all over the planet.

Last time I welded, Jimi, was vocational agriculture class in high school, 1963, and that was acetylene. I have some brazing stuff out in the shop, but just never got around to buying any welding equipment.

 

[Lady Sarah]

I never thought I would weld, but after my step dad passed away, I found it necessary to start

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[Draconigena]

I never thought I would weld, but after my step dad passed away, I found it necessary to start

Was looking at some MIG equipment at Harbor Freight, but then you'd have to come up here and teach me to use it.

 

[Lady Sarah]

Was looking at some MIG equipment at Harbor Freight, but then you'd have to come up here and teach me to use it.

Harbor freight is where my welder came from. I looked up how to use it on the internet. I did so dang much with it, I use more than 60 pounds worth of rods so far. It's just so dang useful.

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[Jimi]

Hubby uses a wire welder, and is not proficient at penetration welds. I use a stick welder.

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I have used both chances are within 100 miles of stands a tower held together by my welds.

 

[Lady Sarah]

It's my bedtime. Sweet dreams, y'all

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[Draconigena]

Harbor freight is where my welder came from. I looked up how to use it on the internet. I did so dang much with it, I use more than 60 pounds worth of rods so far. It's just so dang useful.

Other than the fact that my garage, shop, chicken coop, both barns and house roof are all made of metal, just about everything I do here is wood. I have no welder, but two table saws, two scroll saws, a band saw, table router, a couple hand-held routers, drill press, two table top grinder/polishers, thickness planer, big bench-top belt sander, bench-top miter saw, lathe, lots of jig saws, hand-held circular saws, grinders, sanders, drills, impact drills, etc., etc., etc. and learned how to use all that crap by reading magazines and a couple books. I suppose I could buy a book on these modern welders...

 

[Jimi]

Good night Sarah see you tomorrow