Clone. A dirty word?

[MaxPerilous]

So I've been wanting to dip my toe into the large pool of RDA's. I hear if you want the best flavor RDA is the way to go. Traditionally I'm a tank guy. When I'm out and about I don't want to be messing with my vape. Ultimately I want nic delivery with no fuss. I've been thinking though, while I'm at home, it wouldn't be terrible having to drip, build coils, wick, etc if it means I'm going to really enjoy what that style of vape has to offer.

I spent a lot of time watching reviews on all sorts of RDA's. I've sort of set my heart on the original Goon. Turns out they don't make them anymore. They do have the 1.5 and the LP versions readily available, but I just feel like they aren't as revered as the OG Goon. So, I'm going to have to get one 3rd party off the classifieds or (deep breath) a clone.

Since the beginning of my vape journey (on and off since 2012). I've always felt that one should spend the money on the name brand, insert name in blank. Morally I feel more comfortable having my hard earned money go to the people/person that did the research, took the risk, and introduced to the market their new gadget. Sure authentic gear is more expensive. Ultimately though I feel more comfortable purchasing "the real thing". It's not about the money (it's always about the money).

My search for "Goon" brought up some interesting things here on Vaping Underground. One of which was a link to a site that carries clones of the goon. All versions. I thought huh. Maybe this is worth looking into. I also found a goon in the trade section.

Upon inspecting this website they have whats listed as "Authentic Goon". Considering they also have clones of all sorts of things, how can I be so sure that's honestly what I'd be getting? Considering the price (I told you it's always about the money), the "Authentic" Goon is $49. The Clone? Around $10. Hmm

I'm new to all this. I know these devices aren't as simple as they look. There are pieces and parts to them. How could the $10 clone compare to the $49 "Authentic"? Could it really be just as good but being that it's a clone it's cheaper because you are essentially not buying the brand? Does the price dictate the build quality? Will I be buying a look alike but ultimately the Functionality and Vape Quality suffer?

I'd like thoughts and opinions. What's the communities views on buying the real thing over a clone? Have you tried both an authentic and a clone, side by side (maybe not specifically the goon but in general RDA's)? Could this site honestly be selling the real thing alongside clones? Will I be getting what I pay for? What can I expect? How does the community feel, morally, about purchasing a clone? How can I be sure if/when I buy third party that I'm getting something authentic or a clone (OG Goon specifically)? I'd hate to give someone $ only to find out that I paid authentic price for a clone.

I've read the forum rules. They seem pretty lax. Not a bad thing. If you are interested in what site I'm talking about you can PM me and I will share links. Don't want to make waves or step on toes. Just want to be an informed consumer.

Thanks everyone in advance. Looking forward to hearing from you!

 

[JuicyLucy]

https://cloudypeakvapes.com/collect...s/the-goon-by-528-customs?variant=36152249028

CODE: FREEDOM17 FOR 20% OFF HARDWARE.

There are plenty of legitimate sights that have the OG Goon in stock still

I have purchased from this company before and it was an excellent experience

https://www.subtanksupply.com/rda-atomizers#pageId=2

Here is another great sight I can vouch for. Their regular coupon is TENOFF for 10% off

There are many, many others

You will get as many answers on the clone question as there are vapers, lol

Some vape as well as the OG, but the quality of the construction is lacking, or vice versa

Some are a little better than OG, some are garbage,

 

[AndriaD]

The quality of a clone is entirely dependent on who makes it -- clones by "names," like Tobeco, EHPro, YeahSmo, tend to be just as good as authentics, if not even better in some cases, for 1/2 to 1/4 the price of the "authentic." "No-name" clones, ehh, not so much. I've got a couple of Tobeco clones of Kayfun Lite Plus tanks, and they're just as good for flavor as the authentic I have, though the authentic's threading is MUCH smoother. My EHPro KFL+, and the one no-name I bought once, were terrible. When I examined the inside the top of the chimney (the part that looks like the tin man's hat), I could see why -- no "dome" or "cone" shape, just flat... and they provided no flavor at all. The Tobeco's chimney-top has the interior dome or cone shape, and the flavor is every bit as good as from the authentic.

I have 2 YeahSmo clones of the original Achilles RDA, and they cost $25 each... and they are absolutely the best vape I've ever had. Tragically, they're not available anymore anywhere, at any price... so I went ahead and bought an authentic Achilles II -- $98 -- and it totally SUCKS. He changed the design, for the II, and the interior airhole is too large, so it's too airy, and now it leaks, thanks to changing the way the airflow adjustment works -- from a bottom hex-key adjustment, similar to a Kayfun's, to a ring that you turn. My clones have NEVER leaked unless I got carried away and overfilled them.

Andria

 

[CactusFanaticus]

I have an 8$ goon clone I got from fasttech, it's my main vape, use it more than some originals I have absolutely love it. I've heard some douchey stuff from 528 customs lately so I don't feel bad owning a clone. RDA's are less maintenance than a beginner would expect IMO. When I started dripping I had the same thoughts as you, dripping at home and tank on the go, now I don't use tanks at all. I can juice up and vape for a 30 min drive before I need to drip again and the flavor blows prebuilt coils away.

After a week or so I need to rewick and burn the gunk off the coils which is no big deal, been using the same coils for 3 weeks now.

 

[MaxPerilous]

You are all totally awesome! Thanks for fast replies. The google fu is not strong with this one lol. I really wanted a black one.Every site I found on my onsie were sold out.

Clones are hit and miss is what I'm getting. I guess for as cheap as they are if they totally suck at least you aren't out $50 or more. The guilty feeling I'd get by ordering one will be bypassed this time.

I didn't see it mentioned but the Goon comes with or is BF capable? I don't have one yet but I think that if I really like it I may have to go over to the squonk side next. Dripping without the dripping seems like the next best thing to a tank.

My wife has these Vapage cheapo BF mods and I like the idea of it. I don't want mech mods though. Also the atty is proprietary. I work security and am constantly walking around, interacting with people, etc. I don't want to have to carry all sorts of kit around, bottle of juice in my pocket etc. That's mostly why I prefer tanks. But a squonk mod, if I like the RDA better than my tank, may be what the doctor ordered.

Anyways, generally speaking, do you all feel guilty about purchasing clones? Whether they perform or not? Right now, I'm of the mind that clone is sort of a dirty word and should be avoided when possible.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I didn't see it mentioned but the Goon comes with or is BF capable? I don't have one yet but I think that if I really like it I may have to go over to the squonk side next. Dripping without the dripping seems like the next best thing to a tank.

I have converted all of my Goons to BF

You can buy the pin from 528Custom for $10 - it is a simple pin swap, or you can get the 3-pack from FatDaddyVapes for three or four bucks. It takes the 2.5 mm squonk pin.

The FDV pins require you file down the ends of the pins to fit the Goon. That is how all of mine are and they squonk beautifully

All of mine are OG authentic.

I have tried two different clones, that did vape well, but the construction was poor compared to an authentic Goon

 

[AndriaD]

Anyways, generally speaking, do you all feel guilty about purchasing clones? Whether they perform or not? Right now, I'm of the mind that clone is sort of a dirty word and should be avoided when possible.

Nope. I have a budget. I also want a great vape. If the only way to get the great vape is with a clone, then I'll buy the clone and be very happy to get it. And frankly $98 for an atty is fucking ridiculous, considering you can get a clone of it for $25 -- titanium isn't THAT costly.

I also buy most of my clothes at Walmart or Target, because department store prices are for RICH PEOPLE. I'm not one. I also drive a Chevy, best truck on the road: Silverado!

However for mods.... I prefer Innokin or Sigelei. Their prices are RATIONAL, if you wait a bit after they first come out. However, for the 2 mechs I have, I bought clones, because $100 for a fucking metal tube is just flat STUPID. I paid about $35-$40 for each clone mech; a Fallen Angel (EHPro's clone of the Electric Angel, which is actually much better than the ORIGINAL Electric Angel); and Smoktech's clone of the Galileo.

Andria

 

[JuicyLucy]

Anyways, generally speaking, do you all feel guilty about purchasing clones? Whether they perform or not? Right now, I'm of the mind that clone is sort of a dirty word and should be avoided when possible.

Everyone is going to have a different opinion on that.

I'm neutral

 

[MaxPerilous]

I also buy most of my clothes at Walmart or Target, because department store prices are for RICH PEOPLE. I'm not one. I also drive a Chevy, best truck on the road: Silverado!

Andria

HAhahaaa! 1990 Silverado FTW! When it breaks I can fix it. No dealership necessary. I too get my clothes at Walmart. My mom used to say "If Walmart don't have it, you don't need it". Lol

 

[MaxPerilous]

Everyone is going to have a different opinion on that.

I'm neutral

That's exactly what I'm looking for opinions. Something to confirm or possibly even change my conviction.

 

[AndriaD]

HAhahaaa! 1990 Silverado FTW! When it breaks I can fix it. No dealership necessary. I too get my clothes at Walmart. My mom used to say "If Walmart don't have it, you don't need it". Lol

In December, we bought a 2016 Silverado -- it had been used only as a "courtesy vehicle" (a loaner I guess), and had only 3600 miles on it -- and still had that lovely new-car smell, AND we got it with 84 month financing, just like a brand new one! We traded in a 2009 Silverado. But, even back to the 2006 Silverado we had before that one, they did have more electronic than mechanical shit, so an actual "technician" was necessary for any repairs -- that's really my only gripe with them; with the 2009, we needed a thermostat -- down here in GA, back in the old days, if your thermostat went bad, we just took the damn thing out, it wasn't needed. But now.... $236 to get it replaced, or the AC didn't work at all. *sigh*

But with that 2016, we still have about 4 yrs of factory warranty... and even one more free oil change/tire rotation.

Andria

 

[JuicyLucy]

That's exactly what I'm looking for opinions. Something to confirm or possibly even change my conviction.

Personally, I generally prefer authentic, but I think you should vape at a level you can afford.

I know when I was younger and raising my family, $80 or even $40 for an atomizer would have been out of the question

$150? Are you crazy?

A lot of folks (sometimes me included) buy a clone first and if we like it, get an authentic based on our opinion of the clone

This doesn't always work though, as some clones just do not provide the same level of vaping as the authentic

 

[AndriaD]

This doesn't always work though, as some clones just do not provide the same level of vaping as the authentic

When I got that authentic KFL+ a few months ago, I was REALLY delighted with how smooth the threading is, SOOOO much nicer than even my great Tobeco clone KFL+'s.... but the flavor really isn't any better. In that regard, they're pretty much identical. Tobeco makes OUTSTANDING KFL+'s, even if the threading is a little crunchy.

Andria

 

[MaxPerilous]

I like my old truck for exactly that reason. I don't have to have someone hook it up to a computer to tell me whats wrong with it. Over 300k miles and still going strong. When it comes to my motorcycle it's a different story. Every little thing, I take her back to the dealership. She's got the computer's and ABS and all that.

I keep my wife in newer rides. Typically mini vans so we can take our dogs with us lol. When your dogs weigh as much as grown men, the extra room comes in handy. My male is 220lbs and my female is 150. They both can fit in my Ext. Cab pickup (one in backseat, one up front) but it's tight, and then my wife can't ride with us lol. Also she just drives a lot more than I do. I live 5 miles from work. She works in the city at the VA Hospital and is also currently in the nursing program at school. It'd cost almost as much as tuition in fuel if she were driving my old truck.

I had thought about buying a new truck before I bought my 2012 Triumph. I didn't want to get into the mindset of, "Oh, you can't put that in there it might scratch the bed." I'm of the opinion that a truck should be used for what it was intended. Hauling stuff in the back like firewood, scrap metal, and construction materials. If I bought a new truck, I'd have to keep the old one registered and insured just so I could use it every time someone needed something heavy moved lol.

 

[MaxPerilous]

Personally, I generally prefer authentic, but I think you should vape at a level you can afford.

I know when I was younger and raising my family, $80 or even $40 for an atomizer would have been out of the question

$150? Are you crazy?

A lot of folks (sometimes me included) buy a clone first and if we like it, get an authentic based on our opinion of the clone

This doesn't always work though, as some clones just do not provide the same level of vaping as the authentic

We are lucky in that our daughter is 20 now and very independent. Despite the fact our dogs eat like miniature horses we have a little spending money now and then. For us, vaping is a necessity. It's either spend the money on it, or stinkies. I think once we get hardware figured out and we are happy with it, it will be much cheaper to vape than smoke. Other than my day job, I also have a Rover.com profile. I board dogs in my home while people are on vacation or business trips. We sort of use the money we get from that as our vape budget. The nice things is we are always busy around holidays so we can almost always afford presents lol.

That's also why I've spent LOTS of time watching reviews from multiple people before I decide to purchase something. Vaping is so subjective but I really value the opinions of others.

 

[AndriaD]

I like my old truck for exactly that reason. I don't have to have someone hook it up to a computer to tell me whats wrong with it. Over 300k miles and still going strong. When it comes to my motorcycle it's a different story. Every little thing, I take her back to the dealership. She's got the computer's and ABS and all that.

I keep my wife in newer rides. Typically mini vans so we can take our dogs with us lol. When your dogs weigh as much as grown men, the extra room comes in handy. My male is 220lbs and my female is 150. They both can fit in my Ext. Cab pickup (one in backseat, one up front) but it's tight, and then my wife can't ride us lol. Also she just drives a lot more than I do. I live 5 miles from work. She works in the city at the VA Hospital and is also currently in the nursing program at school. It'd cost almost as much as tuition in fuel if she were driving my old truck.

I had thought about buying a new truck before I bought my 2012 Triumph. I didn't want to get into the mindset of, "Oh, you can't put that in there it might scratch the bed." I'm of the opinion that a truck should be used for what it was intended. Hauling stuff in the back like firewood, scrap metal, and construction materials. If I bought a new truck, I'd have to keep the old one registered and insured just so I could use it every time someone needed something heavy moved lol.

My husband feels just the same about trucks, and always scoffs at those "crew cabs" with the short beds. Put a trukbox on that bed and you'd barely be able to fit 2 toolbags, for those ostensible crew members! We have what they now call the "double cab," used to be called "extended cab" -- it's got a backseat, which is damn handy, but with the shorter (front to back) doors, and the full-size bed -- and yeah, he hauls whatever in it. He works in shipping/receiving (forklift maestro!), so he has all those fancy tie-down straps, the whole works -- he just looks at you and says "I'm a professional!" But that's exactly why he prefers a truck to a car -- he can fairly often haul things for people, and make $20-$25 here and there, or even more for a big removal job, big furniture, etc. And anything you buy -- like the new stove I just got, or the loveseat last month -- you can haul it yo damn self and save the cost of delivery!

Andria

 

[JuicyLucy]

Vaping is so subjective but I really value the opinions of others.

Hang around here long enough, and you will start to know people that have similar tastes and style as you do

I find that the most helpful these days when deciding whether or not to take the plunge on new gear

 

[xpen]

I'm all for rewarding people who invent and innovate, as long as they don't try to rip you off - not too much, anyway.
It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify forking out 100+ bucks for an original, knowing that most of the time it's produced in China, next door (if not next production line) to its 1:1 clone - which probably would cost me some 10$.
Bottom line: I buy originals when the price is reasonable, otherwise clone it is.

 

[strigamort]

Ah clones... I am really active in the knife collecting hobby. Clones are generally reserved for those certain to burn in hell for all of eternity in that realm.

I was pleased to see that clones are dismissed by some here, but otherwise not totally demonized by others. I suspect it's because of the demographic. Not sure.

Anyway, I have been a vaper for all of a month or two. I have spent faaar too much on this already and I don't see it stopping. It's my quitting smoking gift to myself.

So I was looking at a goon for the same reasons you are. In fact, your entire op could have been written by me. There's nothing in it that doesn't also apply to me. So like any troglodyte I looked toward ebay for my needs. Long story short, I ended up buying a $20 v1.5 clone. I went by reviews and the fact that the item shipped in the states. In the pics everything was included except for the ultem drip tip. It came with a nice delrin tip that I gave my roommate for his og. Speaking of his goon, he paid $130 for it. He says the guy he bought it from said that it was a special edition with solid 24k gold. I don't really know, but I suspect he got taken.

I absolutely love my goon clone. Other than a cap that isn't conical, the thing is a 1:1. It came with a squonking pin, a few grubs to choose from, some o-rings and the cute micro screwdriver and allen key.

I very much recommend this particular rda. All the markings are present and in the correct positions. If I'm totally honest, it's always in the back of my mind that it's a clone, but I wouldn't have been able to buy the real one so it is what it is.

Edit- I said grub screws, I meant post screws. I'm vaping the clone right this moment. Damn it's good! I don't drip and drive (manual transmission), but it's super nice sitting on the porch. I have the Kylin for driving.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Speaking of his goon, he paid $130 for it. He says the guy he bought it from said that it was a special edition with solid 24k gold. I don't really know, but I suspect he got taken.

528Custom put out a special Titanium edition with a gold plate pin that cost that much direct

They are now selling used for much higher

Yes, I regret not getting one

 

[ttatlanta]

It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify forking out 100+ bucks for an original, knowing that most of the time it's produced in China, next door (if not next production line) to its 1:1 clone - which probably would cost me some 10$.

Ditto. I think the best solution for the original brand is to have a donation link on their website. Something like "Donate to support our R&D".

I'll gladly donate SvoёMesto $10 for the each Kayfun clone I own. Well… on a second thought, I also own an original, so I think I've made my contribution already.

 

[strigamort]

528Custom put out a special Titanium edition with a gold plate pin that cost that much direct

They are now selling used for much higher

Yes, I regret not getting one

His is definitely not ti. It's almost certainly plated. My understanding is that even the brass (or copper or whatever) has issues with bending, a solid 24k gold would be too maliable imo.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

 

[JuicyLucy]

His is definitely not ti. It's almost certainly plated. My understanding is that even the brass (or copper or whatever) has issues with bending, a solid 24k gold would be too maliable imo.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

The standard OG Goon comes with a copper pin

I converted all of mine and have never actually dripped a Goon, lol

Never heard of bending problems with the OG, but plenty with some of the clones

 

[strigamort]

I'm sorry, I meant the post top plates. As you screw them down over the coil leads the plate will sometimes bow. I've read a lot of people flip them every time they install new coils. The beveling has been mentioned as a possible culprit in weakening the plate. My guess is that the bowing played a roll in Goons decision to change to SS plates and no beveling. I've never used a beveled plate so I don't know what I'm missing, but I don't have any problem getting the leads between the plate and post.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

 

[Manifesto]

I have duplicates of some clone and authentic RDA's. It is really hit of miss. I have found though, that these over priced RDA's (not the goon in particular) are a waste of money. I have had more enjoyment from cheaper chinese makers like Geekvape and Vandy Vape than $100 RDA's. I dont vape to stand out or fashion and I feel that a lot of the higher end attys are just that. The money I have spent of a Govad, Tsunami, or a Peerless has been see as a good thing. I would suggest clones be bought for the higher end RDA's. Even though the vape wont be the exact same, you can get an idea if you will like it. And dont be ashamed at buying a clone. Most of the people that cry foul have pirated movies and music on their hard drives, so fuck them.

 

[Fozzy]

2 Tobeco Mutant Clones w/ Kennedy Clones for a savings of $700 vs buying the authentics. Maybe if I had Warren Buffett money I would feel differently.

 

[kross8]

So I've been wanting to dip my toe into the large pool of RDA's. I hear if you want the best flavor RDA is the way to go. Traditionally I'm a tank guy. When I'm out and about I don't want to be messing with my vape. Ultimately I want nic delivery with no fuss. I've been thinking though, while I'm at home, it wouldn't be terrible having to drip, build coils, wick, etc if it means I'm going to really enjoy what that style of vape has to offer.

I spent a lot of time watching reviews on all sorts of RDA's. I've sort of set my heart on the original Goon. Turns out they don't make them anymore. They do have the 1.5 and the LP versions readily available, but I just feel like they aren't as revered as the OG Goon. So, I'm going to have to get one 3rd party off the classifieds or (deep breath) a clone.

Since the beginning of my vape journey (on and off since 2012). I've always felt that one should spend the money on the name brand, insert name in blank. Morally I feel more comfortable having my hard earned money go to the people/person that did the research, took the risk, and introduced to the market their new gadget. Sure authentic gear is more expensive. Ultimately though I feel more comfortable purchasing "the real thing". It's not about the money (it's always about the money).

My search for "Goon" brought up some interesting things here on Vaping Underground. One of which was a link to a site that carries clones of the goon. All versions. I thought huh. Maybe this is worth looking into. I also found a goon in the trade section.

Upon inspecting this website they have whats listed as "Authentic Goon". Considering they also have clones of all sorts of things, how can I be so sure that's honestly what I'd be getting? Considering the price (I told you it's always about the money), the "Authentic" Goon is $49. The Clone? Around $10. Hmm

I'm new to all this. I know these devices aren't as simple as they look. There are pieces and parts to them. How could the $10 clone compare to the $49 "Authentic"? Could it really be just as good but being that it's a clone it's cheaper because you are essentially not buying the brand? Does the price dictate the build quality? Will I be buying a look alike but ultimately the Functionality and Vape Quality suffer?

I'd like thoughts and opinions. What's the communities views on buying the real thing over a clone? Have you tried both an authentic and a clone, side by side (maybe not specifically the goon but in general RDA's)? Could this site honestly be selling the real thing alongside clones? Will I be getting what I pay for? What can I expect? How does the community feel, morally, about purchasing a clone? How can I be sure if/when I buy third party that I'm getting something authentic or a clone (OG Goon specifically)? I'd hate to give someone $ only to find out that I paid authentic price for a clone.

I've read the forum rules. They seem pretty lax. Not a bad thing. If you are interested in what site I'm talking about you can PM me and I will share links. Don't want to make waves or step on toes. Just want to be an informed consumer.

Thanks everyone in advance. Looking forward to hearing from you!

l
Food For thought--

Back In My College Days I Worked Many Temp Jobs,, From Foods To Car Parts...same Items Came Down The Line And We Just Switched the Labels. Typing On My Tablet. Looks Like It Wants Capitalize All My Words Lol

 

[kross8]

In December, we bought a 2016 Silverado -- it had been used only as a "courtesy vehicle" (a loaner I guess), and had only 3600 miles on it -- and still had that lovely new-car smell, AND we got it with 84 month financing, just like a brand new one! We traded in a 2009 Silverado. But, even back to the 2006 Silverado we had before that one, they did have more electronic than mechanical shit, so an actual "technician" was necessary for any repairs -- that's really my only gripe with them; with the 2009, we needed a thermostat -- down here in GA, back in the old days, if your thermostat went bad, we just took the damn thing out, it wasn't needed. But now.... $236 to get it replaced, or the AC didn't work at all. *sigh*

But with that 2016, we still have about 4 yrs of factory warranty... and even one more free oil change/tire rotation.

Andria

My husband is still in love with his 97 silvy. Not as much tech stuff on it so he can fix almost anything on it. He takes good care of it,,beating 200k miles and healthy. He did shocks this weekend.. A\c this past spring did make him cuss a bit lol

 

[raymo2u]

Clones are great tools to judge before you send off money for the authentic.

You wont have the encouragement to like something since there isnt a price tag and you will only be judging it on the features the product itself has. If you love the clone then you will love the authentic that much more with the money added, higher quality*, and the blood, sweat and tears put into making it.

For those that despise clones...its only problematic if the authentic is over priced and treats customers like crap, the people that buy authentics will still buy the authentics...clone users are people that arent comfortable handing out hard earned money on something they may or may not like or cant afford, and thats why clones even have a market. Some people cant afford a authentic of everything they like due to budget restraints.

There are good and bad clones but if you look at enough pictures and compare the authentic pics to clone pics then usually you can find them before even buying them and nowadays most clone makers have stepped up there game. A year or 2 ago almost every other clones sucked but now theres a much better chance of even a bad clone brand to put out a decent clone....there are good brands though:
Kindbright
SXK
SJMY
Tobecco
EPHRO

These companies put out clones that you cant even tell in your hands or side by side with the authentic and usually are a few bucks more then other clones and in my opinion SMJY, Tobecco, and Kindbright.

 

[MaxPerilous]

2 Tobeco Mutant Clones w/ Kennedy Clones for a savings of $700 vs buying the authentics. Maybe if I had Warren Buffett money I would feel differently.

Ooooh Shinie!!

I went ahead and bought an OG Goon AND a Clone. It felt slightly dirty if I'm being honest lol. BUT it sure felt good spending only $10 on the clone.

I think my biggest concern this time around is this; I'm not going to be buying all sorts of devices to try out and see if I like. I did some research and I'm trying to be smart with my money. I wanted to make sure that the vaping experience I was paying for was authentic. When I got into vaping back in the day I wanted to be on the cutting edge. I wound up with things like...


They look cool. None of them kept me off the stinkies. They all costed WAY to much. There's more where that came from. Bet you've never seen GrimmGreen do a review on a iHybrid lol. Yeah I bought two of those. The "Pluid Ediition" and the "Hellraiser". For some people, it was the best vape they'd had. For me, they just didn't cut the mustard. The IHy was something like $300 if I remember correctly.

The other night I spent around $100 and got this


I couldn't be happier. I also watched multiple videos from multiple reviewers on a multitude of devices. Weighed the pros and cons. Had multiple vendors to choose from instead of crossing my fingers hoping and wishing for the chance to buy one, or spam refreshing a website for the limited number to be made available, then the website crashing from the sheer number of people doing the same thing. (Run on sentences FTW)

All this to say. I want to get what I pay for. I want to know it's going to perform as advertised. I think I would have no issues buying a clone if someone out there was doing reviews, comparisons, etc on those too. My wife and I are vaping to save our lives. We aren't buying things for bling, social status, or to catch a nic buzz. If I can do it with $10 or $100 it's worth it. Besides, we spent WAY more than that a month on stinkies.

Without people spending money on the real thing, there wouldn't be clones of said thing. They wouldn't exist to clone. I want the industry to grow as a whole and I think that's why I personally want my money to go to the people that ultimately made it happen. Not the people that are siphoning off the fringes. Hence the internal conflict.

Do I have a rock-star bankroll? NO, not by any means. I'm willing to spend the dough on what works though.

 

[AndriaD]

My husband is still in love with his 97 silvy. Not as much tech stuff on it so he can fix almost anything on it. He takes good care of it,,beating 200k miles and healthy. He did shocks this weekend.. A\c this past spring did make him cuss a bit lol

Back in the late 90s, we made the decision to finance a vehicle, in order to have a vehicle we could depend on. We further decided that, in order to ALWAYS have a vehicle we can always depend on, to always keep a "car note" -- we never ever pay off a vehicle; when it starts to nickel and dime us with this or that repair, we trade that sucker in for a later model (never new, the 2016 is the newest we've ever bought). The method to this madness is that since we never pay off a vehicle, we never find some other use for that money, so when a paid-off vehicle finally needs replacing, we wouldn't have a budget for a car note -- we avoid that entire can of worms by keeping a permanent car note, and we also ALWAYS have a vehicle we can ALWAYS depend on. We got so fucking tired of "Car won't start." "What's wrong?" "Dunno. But it'll cost us first to find out, then to get it fixed, and we don't have the money!" NO FUCKING THANK YOU!!!!

Andria

 

[kross8]

Back in the late 90s, we made the decision to finance a vehicle, in order to have a vehicle we could depend on. We further decided that, in order to ALWAYS have a vehicle we can always depend on, to always keep a "car note" -- we never ever pay off a vehicle; when it starts to nickel and dime us with this or that repair, we trade that sucker in for a later model (never new, the 2016 is the newest we've ever bought). The method to this madness is that since we never pay off a vehicle, we never find some other use for that money, so when a paid-off vehicle finally needs replacing, we wouldn't have a budget for a car note -- we avoid that entire can of worms by keeping a permanent car note, and we also ALWAYS have a vehicle we can ALWAYS depend on. We got so fucking tired of "Car won't start." "What's wrong?" "Dunno. But it'll cost us first to find out, then to get it fixed, and we don't have the money!" NO FUCKING THANK YOU!!!!

Andria

Lol..his Truck Was Paid Off 2 Years After We Bought It...so Its No Big Deal If We Have Buy Tires Or A Battery.. Or Even A\c After 20 Years ($350) .. He Takes Extreme Care For our Cars..we Put Miles On Them And Only Seem To Lose Them To Other People Hitting Us. I Have No Doubt Every One Of Our Cars Would Have Made It 300-350k Miles No Major Problems. I Learn A Lot In The Process....a. Few Weeks Ago I Changed My Lower Control Arm Bushing On My Bmw (also Paid Off)

 

[Fozzy]

Ooooh Shinie!!

I went ahead and bought an OG Goon AND a Clone. It felt slightly dirty if I'm being honest lol. BUT it sure felt good spending only $10 on the clone.

I think my biggest concern this time around is this; I'm not going to be buying all sorts of devices to try out and see if I like. I did some research and I'm trying to be smart with my money. I wanted to make sure that the vaping experience I was paying for was authentic. When I got into vaping back in the day I wanted to be on the cutting edge. I wound up with things like...
View attachment 85859 View attachment 85862 View attachment 85863 View attachment 85864 View attachment 85865 View attachment 85866

They look cool. None of them kept me off the stinkies. They all costed WAY to much. There's more where that came from. Bet you've never seen GrimmGreen do a review on a iHybrid lol. Yeah I bought two of those. The "Pluid Ediition" and the "Hellraiser". For some people, it was the best vape they'd had. For me, they just didn't cut the mustard. The IHy was something like $300 if I remember correctly.

The other night I spent around $100 and got this
View attachment 85867

I couldn't be happier. I also watched multiple videos from multiple reviewers on a multitude of devices. Weighed the pros and cons. Had multiple vendors to choose from instead of crossing my fingers hoping and wishing for the chance to buy one, or spam refreshing a website for the limited number to be made available, then the website crashing from the sheer number of people doing the same thing. (Run on sentences FTW)

All this to say. I want to get what I pay for. I want to know it's going to perform as advertised. I think I would have no issues buying a clone if someone out there was doing reviews, comparisons, etc on those too. My wife and I are vaping to save our lives. We aren't buying things for bling, social status, or to catch a nic buzz. If I can do it with $10 or $100 it's worth it. Besides, we spent WAY more than that a month on stinkies.

Without people spending money on the real thing, there wouldn't be clones of said thing. They wouldn't exist to clone. I want the industry to grow as a whole and I think that's why I personally want my money to go to the people that ultimately made it happen. Not the people that are siphoning off the fringes. Hence the internal conflict.

Do I have a rock-star bankroll? NO, not by any means. I'm willing to spend the dough on what works though.

You are correct, if we don't support the original manufacturers there won't be companies around to innovate the next best thing. In addition to owning clones I own many authentic mods, RDAs and tanks. But the quality of many clones these days are top notch.

I also wish that forking over a pile of money would insure a quality device, but in my experience that simply isn't the case.

As for feeling dirty about purchasing a clone. I would have never purchased the original Mutant Mod at its original price tag, there just wasn't anything too innovative about it. So, the clone manufacturer didn't take my business away from the original manufacturer. However, I do own many authentic mods (Ruby, OG Sacrid, Rig V2, VC X1, SOI shorty and a CV Virtus - to name a few) because I felt the design or the unique or the switch is unique.

What I think we sometimes forget is that clones make vaping gear accessible to a much larger community. Which, I feel this helps the industry by making vaping more affordable to the hobbyist. If clones did not exist, I am sure that I would spend much less overall on vape gear and accessories.

Clones have also been an affordable way for me to introduce Mech Mods and RDA to friends and colleagues. I doubt I would casually give away my authentic gear, but I frequently hand over a clone setup to a inquisitive and unintimidated regulated device user (of course after a rant on battery safety and advocacy).

So I believe that clones have a place in the market, at least until more affordable authentic mods become available. I hope that cloned devices and competition will continue to narrow the margin. If you are trying to pass a clone off as an authentic, I feel that crossing the line and should make everyone feel dirty.

If you still have a little vape budget left I recommend the SXK Kennedy 24 2-post RDA and a Velocity clone.

Cheers

 

[MaxPerilous]

Alright, so having received my clones and vaping them side by side with the original authentic (confirmed), same coils, same juice, same wicks. The only differences I can really tell is that the clones are made with slightly thinner metal resulting in them getting hotter to the touch, faster. Also the fit of them are slightly looser around the o-rings (prob due to being a tad thinner metal or dif o-rings). The screws on the clones are def cheaper and more likely to get stripped on the heads. The clamp plates' chamfer is not as pronounced on the clones. The last major difference I noticed was that the drip tip on the og goon is well rounded on the outer shoulder where as the clone is more square and feels different on the lips.

I also bought the 1.5 Style clone to test the airflow. It did not come with a wide bore drip tip, Only the smaller version. I prefer the wide version so for me that is, def a con.

All in all for what I paid for them. I'm happy and can confirm the flavor and vapor are on par with the authentic. Also the so claimed "Authentic" from 3fvape, does indeed seem to be authentic.

 

[MaxPerilous]

If you still have a little vape budget left I recommend the SXK Kennedy 24 2-post RDA and a Velocity clone.

Cheers

Looking at 3fvape, they seem to have two dif styles of the Kennedy. One with top airflow and on with narrower shoulders referred to as the "Trickster". To which were you referring? The Trickster being the one that appears to be closest to the original.

 

[strigamort]

Max, the v1.5 clone I put up a picture of is excellent. Only difference I can see is that the inside of the cap is not conical and I don't believe that I could tell a difference anyway, unless I was getting spit back and the cone was aiding in that. $20 shipped in the US. I'm buying another one because my gf has decided to go with an rda based on her experience with mine. Takes that woman a lot to admit she likes something better than what she's got (baby beast).

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[MaxPerilous]

Max, the v1.5 clone I put up a picture of is excellent. Only difference I can see is that the inside of the cap is not conical and I don't believe that I could tell a difference anyway, unless I was getting spit back and the cone was aiding in that. $20 shipped in the US. I'm buying another one because my gf has decided to go with an rda based on her experience with mine. Takes that woman a lot to admit she likes something better than what she's got (baby beast).

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I got that same clone. It's not bad at all. I have the 1.5 style clone and the Kindbright Goon. They are high quality clones. I have 2 authentic goons now too though so I'm probably going to sell my clones. Have you already ordered the goon for your gf? I'd be willing to part with the two I have.

 

[strigamort]

I got that same clone. It's not bad at all. I have the 1.5 style clone and the Kindbright Goon. They are high quality clones. I have 2 authentic goons now too though so I'm probably going to sell my clones. Have you already ordered the goon for your gf? I'd be willing to part with the two I have.

I haven't, but I'm also broke! :/ Start my new job tomorrow, thank God. I appreciate the offer though!

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[MaxPerilous]

Good luck with your new job bud!

I bought my clones from 3fvape so they were pretty cheap. I like my 2 authentic's though so will prob make a WTT/S in the classies.

I haven't, but I'm also broke! :/ Start my new job tomorrow, thank God. I appreciate the offer though!

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[Synphul]

Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Some people are habitually thrifty, others are just the opposite and firmly believe you 'get what you pay for'. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. It's such a mindset that often times people marketing things purposely inflate their prices to create the perception that it's higher quality. The thinking is if it's too fair priced there must be something wrong with it. Oh, it's expensive you say? Quality!

Unfortunately there's no one set standard for items based on price. Cheap doesn't always mean crappy. Name brand doesn't always mean superior. With vaping stuff, two rta's I can compare on things like fit/finish quality one is an ehpro authentic (their product, not a clone), the other is a geekvape authentic. You don't hear much about ehpro but vape forums and sites are full of geekvape praise. Honestly the ehpro has better threading, doesn't feel as 'cheap' or chintzy as the geekvape, the juice flow is a lot smoother, afc is a lot smoother. Both were around $30 when I bought them so price doesn't play a role.

I like my ammit rta just fine, it's not a piece of junk or anything. It has its quirks like anything else. To be honest though after seeing some of the noobish design flaws I don't see myself running right out to buy another geekvape product.

There are many cases of 'brand names' being overpriced without adding much value. Worst pair of shoes I ever had, barely lasted me a month and a half, a pair of nike air's back in the late 80's. Being a kid I just HAD to have them. $85 for a pair of shoes back then factoring the rate of inflation would equate to around $160+ today. I've got $35 sandals that wore better and outlasted those nike's by years. First and last nike's I ever bought. Not sure on the latest models but a few years back the gmc yukon denali was almost identical to the escalade and was only a fraction of the price. Escalade owners were paying an additional $25-30k for the emblems and a few other minor differences. Same engine, same frame, same leather interior etc etc. Both being GM they were both probably made in the same plants. Some things the price may be justified by the quality, when it comes to things like knives. You don't want a handle to come loose and more expensive knives usually use higher quality steel. They both may look shiny and pointy but one will have a much sharper edge on it and be able to retain that edge a lot longer.

I'm not bothered by clones if they function well at a fraction of the price. Not taking away from the authentic designers, the fact they created something. However they act like they came out with something incredibly different from anything else. Atty's are fairly basic, they have a deck with a 510, a way to connect to a positive and negative post and they either have a top cap or a tank to hold juice confined to a fairly small size. Nothing earth shattering and while they may consider themselves to be artists, they're not DaVinci. Sorry, they're just not.

I bet without even looking to see who made it, if someone said they made an rda I could pretty well describe it - umm, it's round, somewhere between 20-30mm give or take, has a positive and negative connection, a few o-rings around the bottom that make the round cylindrical cap fit snug and it has a tip on the top. Did I guess right? Oh man, you mean the drip tip o-ring isn't on the drip tip and instead it's tucked into the top cap?! Mind - blown. Again not knocking folks but considering what they're making there's only so much room for artistic license.

They're basic concept devices and it is what it is. Ok, so one has hardened grub screws and another doesn't. Last I checked hardened grub screws don't justify an extra $50-80. That's me though, spending extra to 'reward' someone who only gives two shits about my $$ doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies, maybe I don't even have warm and fuzzies. I'm practical and sometimes a bit too literal to the point I can come off sounding like an ass.

 

[strigamort]

Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Some people are habitually thrifty, others are just the opposite and firmly believe you 'get what you pay for'. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. It's such a mindset that often times people marketing things purposely inflate their prices to create the perception that it's higher quality. The thinking is if it's too fair priced there must be something wrong with it. Oh, it's expensive you say? Quality!

Unfortunately there's no one set standard for items based on price. Cheap doesn't always mean crappy. Name brand doesn't always mean superior. With vaping stuff, two rta's I can compare on things like fit/finish quality one is an ehpro authentic (their product, not a clone), the other is a geekvape authentic. You don't hear much about ehpro but vape forums and sites are full of geekvape praise. Honestly the ehpro has better threading, doesn't feel as 'cheap' or chintzy as the geekvape, the juice flow is a lot smoother, afc is a lot smoother. Both were around $30 when I bought them so price doesn't play a role.

I like my ammit rta just fine, it's not a piece of junk or anything. It has its quirks like anything else. To be honest though after seeing some of the noobish design flaws I don't see myself running right out to buy another geekvape product.

There are many cases of 'brand names' being overpriced without adding much value. Worst pair of shoes I ever had, barely lasted me a month and a half, a pair of nike air's back in the late 80's. Being a kid I just HAD to have them. $85 for a pair of shoes back then factoring the rate of inflation would equate to around $160+ today. I've got $35 sandals that wore better and outlasted those nike's by years. First and last nike's I ever bought. Not sure on the latest models but a few years back the gmc yukon denali was almost identical to the escalade and was only a fraction of the price. Escalade owners were paying an additional $25-30k for the emblems and a few other minor differences. Same engine, same frame, same leather interior etc etc. Both being GM they were both probably made in the same plants. Some things the price may be justified by the quality, when it comes to things like knives. You don't want a handle to come loose and more expensive knives usually use higher quality steel. They both may look shiny and pointy but one will have a much sharper edge on it and be able to retain that edge a lot longer.

I'm not bothered by clones if they function well at a fraction of the price. Not taking away from the authentic designers, the fact they created something. However they act like they came out with something incredibly different from anything else. Atty's are fairly basic, they have a deck with a 510, a way to connect to a positive and negative post and they either have a top cap or a tank to hold juice confined to a fairly small size. Nothing earth shattering and while they may consider themselves to be artists, they're not DaVinci. Sorry, they're just not.

I bet without even looking to see who made it, if someone said they made an rda I could pretty well describe it - umm, it's round, somewhere between 20-30mm give or take, has a positive and negative connection, a few o-rings around the bottom that make the round cylindrical cap fit snug and it has a tip on the top. Did I guess right? Oh man, you mean the drip tip o-ring isn't on the drip tip and instead it's tucked into the top cap?! Mind - blown. Again not knocking folks but considering what they're making there's only so much room for artistic license.

They're basic concept devices and it is what it is. Ok, so one has hardened grub screws and another doesn't. Last I checked hardened grub screws don't justify an extra $50-80. That's me though, spending extra to 'reward' someone who only gives two shits about my $$ doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies, maybe I don't even have warm and fuzzies. I'm practical and sometimes a bit too literal to the point I can come off sounding like an ass.

Well, I like your viewpoint. Are you into knives btw? My experience with clone knives is like many other clone goods. It's easy to find the ones that are of high quality. I have a Spyderco paramilitary 2 in my pocket instead of a clone, though, because I didn't mind paying way too much for the s110v steel, versus the d2 (or whatever) on a hq clone. My Spyderco Mamba cost around $300 and was made in Taiwan with US steel. I have a clone Edge Pro to sharpen that knife with.

I don't mind clones. Forums are the best places to find information on what is good and what isn't worth looking at. Really grateful for places like this!

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[iVapeDIY]

I'm not bothered by clones if they function well at a fraction of the price. Not taking away from the authentic designers, the fact they created something. However they act like they came out with something incredibly different from anything else. Atty's are fairly basic, they have a deck with a 510, a way to connect to a positive and negative post and they either have a top cap or a tank to hold juice confined to a fairly small size. Nothing earth shattering and while they may consider themselves to be artists, they're not DaVinci. Sorry, they're just not.

Got an SXK Hadaly RDA ($10) recently to delve into the dripper experience. I find it too hot and I suspect it is the same for this class of vaping ... I'm glad I experimented with a clone.

 

[strigamort]

Hmm... The Hadaly is known for its small interior (flavor rda) isn't it? I wouldn't stop trying to find an rda that works for you if you want flavor. The perfect vape might be a little more room away. I'm glad I bought a clone too, but I found one that I love right from the git.

As far as simplicity goes, I wouldn't classify all attys as simple. There's vacuum and capillary action to consider when it comes to tank attys. Rda's seem pretty simple to me, but I'm always surprised at how much different the taste and vapor are with different coil builds.

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[AndriaD]

Got an SXK Hadaly RDA ($10) recently to delve into the dripper experience. I find it too hot and I suspect it is the same for this class of vaping ... I'm glad I experimented with a clone.

When I first started, I had the [erroneous] idea for quite a while that "dripping" was synonymous with "obnoxious cloud chasing"... but then I was introduced first to the Magma, and then to the Achilles. I still use a Magma now and then, but my 2 Achilles, CONSTANTLY, and I'm a <10w TIGHT-draw MtL vaper. It's true that the atty needs to be able to capitalize on that style of vaping, though; the Magma can accommodate it, if you use just one of the very smallest airholes, but the Achilles is (was) absolutely MADE FOR IT. Just too damn bad no one makes or sells them anymore, because they are a a tootle puffer's dream come true.

Andria

 

[strigamort]

Lol wrong thread!

 

[Giraut]

I'd like thoughts and opinions. What's the communities views on buying the real thing over a clone? Have you tried both an authentic and a clone, side by side (maybe not specifically the goon but in general RDA's)?

Here are my views on clones:

1/ Clones of high-end mods made by small makers

I usually don't like them for two reasons: firstly they're usually not as good as the real McCoy. Secondly, they bite into an artisan's income. BUT... sometimes the clones are better made and/or made in a material unavailable from the original maker. I have a few mech clones like that. But normally I buy the real thing.

2/ Clones of atomizers

Ever wondered how Chinese cloners could come up with exact replicas of high-end atomizers that work just as well, sometimes even before the real things come on the market? I'll tell you how: high-end atomizers are designed in some "noble" western country (USA, Germany...) and then the designers turn to China to have them manufactured on the cheap, before reselling them to you at top dollar. Exactly like designer clothes. You didn't think they were made locally did you?

What happens then is, them Chinese steal the drawings and churn out cheap copies. In short, the high-end atomizer designers rip you off, and the Chinese shops rip off the designers.

And don't tell me people who buy clones hurt the designers, who did the design and don't get paid for it: pretty much all RDAs and RTAs out there are variations on the same theme. There are perhaps one or two truly innovative atomizer designs per year. All the others are all the same. Rip-off... And really, at the end of the day, atomizers are just wire connectors with a fancy bell: they're not remotely worth the money the designers ask for them.

That is why, unless I feel the design shows real research and innovation, or I know for sure the atomizers are made locally, I always and unashamedly get the clones whenever I can: I'd rather the original designers get ripped off than me.

 

[Skullzz]

https://www.elementvape.com/

I love those guys. Always authentic unless specified clone. They are on the west coast. I am on the east coast and free shipping orders always arrive in two days for me. Never had an issue and their prices are awesome.


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[Synphul]

Hmm... The Hadaly is known for its small interior (flavor rda) isn't it? I wouldn't stop trying to find an rda that works for you if you want flavor. The perfect vape might be a little more room away. I'm glad I bought a clone too, but I found one that I love right from the git.

As far as simplicity goes, I wouldn't classify all attys as simple. There's vacuum and capillary action to consider when it comes to tank attys. Rda's seem pretty simple to me, but I'm always surprised at how much different the taste and vapor are with different coil builds.

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True, there is the vacuum issue to contend with possibly. Then again all this 'high dollar research' that goes into what I'd call 'average' rta's (by price) in the $30-45 range and look how many have issues, constantly being updated (to correct inherent design flaws). So we're not paying for the miracles of engineering prowess, we're paying to be guinea pigs. Not all but more than a few rta's people have been dissatisfied with for perpetual leaking issues, vapor lock (boreas burp) etc. It's not to say the designs may not be innovative or trying to go a unique direction but they're not without their flaws. Some flaws are worse than others and it made it past engineering, qc and into a store near you.

I don't mind paying for products but not trying to pay good money while someone learns their craft and sorts out the kinks. If it were a matter of clones being janky, threads don't line up, screws cross threaded, crucial seals missing from the design to cheap out and save money then ok, the authentic (if it's more complete) can justify a higher price. I agree that there are some prototypes involved but the vast majority of what's out there aren't being hand milled atop a mountain by a vaping monk. Once a prototype has been approved it gets pumped out at pretty good production rates.

I'm only offering an opinion and a counter argument. Companies out there are like yea but you don't get it, all this science and master craftsmanship went into the proper placement of the juice ports and this seal and that seal. Yea? Then why's my rta vapor locked? Or why's my shit pissing all over my mod? I'm no scientist but I know when shit be leaking.

Definitely agree that coil builds, size, placement to the airflow etc all have a major impact on the resulting flavor and experience. That's all up for grabs though and is up to the user.

 

[iVapeDIY]

Hmm... The Hadaly is known for its small interior (flavor rda) isn't it? I wouldn't stop trying to find an rda that works for you if you want flavor. The perfect vape might be a little more room away.

The 'little more room' is a long wide bore delrin tip that cools down many a hot atty ... not in this case tho. Am pretty content with my RTAs (Oumier WBM, Serpent Mini, etc) ... but couldn't resist a $10 device for experimentation.

'The Hadaly' ($100+) intrigued me since reviewers hail it as the ultimate dripper. Generous deck for HUGE coils, bottom airflow, 'swimming pool' for saturated wicks, and low height are key design elements for its famed flavor. Many of these design elements are in flavor chasing RTAs. The low height (build deck distance to drip tip) is what fails me ... too HOT ... and it seems to be a real concern as original Hadaly has multiple options to reduce heat via $17 add-on (eg., delrin dome).

In any case, cheap clones are also great enablers and learning tools.

I'd rather the original designers get ripped off than me.

Can't argue with that.

Definitely agree that coil builds, size, placement to the airflow etc all have a major impact on the resulting flavor and experience. That's all up for grabs though and is up to the user.

Sums it up nicely.

 

[strigamort]

Well said, Syn.

I think what I meant about a coil build is that the different deck designs offer me a way to build differently keeping airflow in mind. Some designs won't let me put my coils above the air intakes like the goon does. My statement was really vague and probably irrelevant.

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