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Mattp169

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WARNING
PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD FOR CORRECT INFORMATION REGARDING FLAVOUR ART

THE ORIGINAL POST MAY CONTAIN AND HAS CONTAINED OUTRIGHT LIES ABOUT FLAVOUR ART
AND REAL FLAVORS AS WELL


DO NOT TRUST ANY INFO FROM THE ORIGINAL POSTER

He clearly did not do significant research , because information that would take you minuted to find on your own was left out of the original data

@Mikser
You need to fix you FA info IT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG
ALl flavours are tested for diketones and its published
http://flavourartnaflavourreports.com/
SO stop saying they dont give info on that
And they do more testing on the effects of the flavorings on living cells that NOONE ELSE DOES
http://www.clearstreamonward.com/home-en/

So unless you are shilling for one of these other flavor companies tell the truth in your original post that you keep updating.
It is shamefull that even after you have been informed by people you keep incorrect info in your original post that you have updated
 
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Mattp169

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WARNING
PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD FOR CORRECT INFORMATION REGARDING FLAVOUR ART

THE ORIGINAL POST MAY CONTAIN AND HAS CONTAINED OUTRIGHT LIES ABOUT FLAVOUR ART
AND REAL FLAVORS AS WELL


DO NOT TRUST ANY INFO FROM THE ORIGINAL POSTER

He clearly did not do significant research , because information that would take you minuted to find on your own was left out of the original data

im starting to wonder if maybe he works for a venfor who cant get FA or for a flavor company directly like TFA or FW
 
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AndriaD

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I haven't used too many FA flavors... YET... but one thing I've noticed is that you don't need to use much flavoring if you use FA flavors -- that's got to be yet another great thing about FA. I'm slowly coming around to trying quite a few more of their flavors. I got off on the wrong foot with FA when I first started trying out DIY; their "Virginia" tobacco flavor is simply DISGUSTING, and that kinda put me off FA for a long time. But now I don't like tobacco flavors at all, so I'm finally trying more of their sweet flavors.

Andria
 

Mattp169

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never used FA tobaccos or any others, but have heard their tobaccos are not for everyone
ANd FA is 1-3% usually. I do peach at 4 with white peach at 3 but thats me cuz i have vaped liters of that
Real Flavors seems to be another one that needs like 3% to be right
 

AndriaD

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Hangsen is the only tobacco flavors that I consider to be worth using.

The Tobacco Express Virginia is excellent; none of that "rotted celery" taste, just light and mellow and slightly bittersweet, exactly as Virginia tobacco ought to be. I had to try so many Virginia ejuices when MFS ran out of their high-PG Virginia at one point, and every Virginia other than theirs tasted like rotted celery, like the smell of a crisper drawer after the celery has decomposed all the way to liquid, just godawful. Then I started trying DIY, and after trying that horrendous rotted-celery FA Virginia, I found the Tobacco Express, and made a really nice Virginia vape. About a week later, I tried a blueberry muffin vape... and I was OVER tobacco flavors.

Andria
 

iVapeDIY

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FA – Flavour Arts

:) Independent research showed no Diacetyl and AP in their VAPING flavors, but...
:( ...no results of Acetoin testing was ever published. We have no idea how much Acetoin is in any of their flavours.
:( ...also, diketone-free is only their vaping line, while their KITCHEN line may contain D/AP (Butter, Cream Whipped, Milk and 30+ other flavors) and there is no info about the amount of Diacetyl & AP for any of these flavors.
:) Their flavors does not contain sugars, protein, genetic modified ingredients, animal ingredients of any kind, preservatives, sweeteners and colors.

My opinion: There is a myth that FA flavors are free of diketones. That is so not true and so misleading (if we count Acetoin among diketones). Some flavors contain D/AP and on top they hide any info about the amounts of Acetoin in all of their flavors. To get an idea what information FA company releases, please check the amount of diketones in FW flavors above... It seems could also advertise that there is no diketones in their flavors, right? (if they chose to refuse releasing reports about levels of Acetoin in their flavors, like FA).

Link to testing reports (their flavorings without D/AP are here only)
Link to ALL flavors (official website)
FA Flavors NOT suitable for vaping are here.

:headbang:Holy fuck, batman! You're right. FA, like FW before, has been hiding acetoin content. This really puts a crimp on my mixes. Blindly trusting FA ... hiding in plain sight as it were ... like 'Paris in the the spring', most people will not see the 'the the' ... sneaky.

Damn, I love the taste of FA flavors ... too good to be true. ... adding FA to my shit list ... will not be buying again until they are fully transparent. Was just about to buy a ton of Fresh Cream (FA) ... will now get Cream SC (RealFlavors) ... won't taste as good ... have to find more subs ... waay pissed.

Btw, like all good whistleblowers, you will get flamed to death ... keep up the good work.

Addendum, to be fair, I will assume some of FA's flavors are truly diketone-free ... particularly flavors without cream and nuts.
 
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Mattp169

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:headbang:Holy fuck, batman! You're right. FA, like FW before, has been hiding acetoin content. This really puts a crimp on my mixes. Blindly trusting FA ... hiding in plain sight as it were ... like 'Paris in the the spring', most people will not see the 'the the' ... sneaky.

Damn, I love the taste of FA flavors ... too good to be true. ... adding FA to my shit list ... will not be buying again until they are fully transparent. Was just about to buy a ton of Fresh Cream (FA) ... will now get Cream SC (RealFlavors) ... won't taste as good ... have to find more subs ... waay pissed.

Btw, like all good whistleblowers, you will get flamed to death ... keep up the good work.

Addendum, to be fair, I will assume some of FA's flavors are truly diketone-free ... particularly flavors without cream and nuts.
WTF are you talking about
hiding what. to be hiding it would have to be there. since you have no proof of it being there you are just making shit up
 

iVapeDIY

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WTF are you talking about hiding what. to be hiding it would have to be there. since you have no proof of it being there you are just making shit up

Download the FA's PDFs ... no Acetoin tests ... same thing FW did.
 

Mattp169

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Ok here is the answer directly from Falvourart via a live chat
they have over 400 flavors
only 20 are not recommended for vaping
BECAUSE those 20 either contain acetoin or are oil soluable
On their website it will clearly state the following if acetoin or any other diketone is present in the product description
This flavor contains Diacetyl and/or related diketones. Not suitable for vaping. For further details see diacetyl page in Vape Heaven section

SO stop all the fear mongering about FA. they are possibly the safest flavor to vape
 

Mattp169

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here is the transcript of my chat with FA
Dear matt,

Thank you for chatting with us. Please find your chat transcript below.

FlavourArt / Supporto

Date: 2017-07-26
-------------------------------------------------------------
Name: matt
Email: nunyabusiness

Chat reference number: 23187
-------------------------------------------------------------
| 26.07.2017 15:14:57 | matt: do your flavors contain acetoin
| 26.07.2017 15:16:32 | Elena: Hello matt, my name is Elena, how may I help you?
| 26.07.2017 15:16:49 | matt: do any of your flavors for vaping contain acetoin
| 26.07.2017 15:18:11 | Elena: most our flavours do not contain acetoin
| 26.07.2017 15:18:37 | Elena: if they do it is mentioned in the description below
| 26.07.2017 15:19:10 | matt: can you give me an example of a flavor that does contain acetoin
| 26.07.2017 15:19:39 | Elena: for example milk flavour contain acetoin
| 26.07.2017 15:20:05 | Elena: also butter
| 26.07.2017 15:20:12 | Elena: and roasted chicken
| 26.07.2017 15:20:26 | matt: are these flavors recommended for vaping?
| 26.07.2017 15:20:47 | Elena: no , they are not indicated for vaping
| 26.07.2017 15:21:06 | matt: ok thank you
| 26.07.2017 15:21:10 | Elena: we have 400 different flavours and just 20 are not indicated
| 26.07.2017 15:21:24 | matt: can you email me a transcription of this chat
| 26.07.2017 15:22:16 | Elena: the ones with acetoin and ones oil soluble
|
 

iVapeDIY

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So @Mikser its time to update your original post and @iVapeDIY your statements are incorrect. FA fresh cream does not contain acetoin

'I want to believe' (Agent Mulder) ... unless FA posts Acetoin results, like Inawera, you will have to trust the word of their spokesperson ... spokespersons (as seen on TV) are subject to 'truthiness'.

Until then, FA's competition has ramped up some good subs ... will now sub Caramel (FA) with Dulce de Leche SC (RealFlavors) ... looking for more confirmed diketone-free subs.
 

Mattp169

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ok why in the world would FA spend all teh money they have on testing to LIE about something not being in a flavor if it was in the flavor.
you can not deny they go several steps beyond any other company. SO it makes 0 sense for them to lie about acetoin

honestly the entire thread seems like it is trying to send false information to the community. I feel there is a hidden agenda by the OP
 

The Cromwell

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'I want to believe' (Agent Mulder) ... unless FA posts Acetoin results, like Inawera, you will have to trust the word of their spokesperson ... spokespersons (as seen on TV) are subject to 'truthiness'.

Until then, FA's competition has ramped up some good subs ... will now sub Caramel (FA) with Dulce de Leche SC (RealFlavors) ... looking for more confirmed diketone-free subs.


spokesman?
Paper nor the internet care one little bit what is written on them.

btw I am a French Model. Bonjour :)
 

Artemis

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I have been vaping and diy-ing since 2010. I have followed FA on the journey. I have also followed DR. F as well. This is a copy paste and I will link the site. Acetoin is not used in most flavors.
Acetoin is found in cigarettes.

http://www.flavourart.co.uk/faqs.html


Do the concentrates contain...?
We are often asked if our flavourings contain various chemicals so the text below should hopefully answer them. The condition that can be caused by inhalation of Diacetyl and/or related Diketones is commonly referred to as 'Popcorn lung' (bronchiolitis obliterans) and was first highlighted in the US in facilities where Popcorn was being mass-produced. It is not lung cancer but it is a very painful and debilitating condition. Even though the amounts inhaled when vaping (miniscule) are unlikely to cause any such problems, many manufacturers have now removed Diacetyl from the products that contained them. FlavourArt Italy were the first manufacturer to respond to the Diacetyl issue and began removal of Diacetyl and all related Diketones in November 2010. There are a few flavours they produce that still contain such ingredients as they are necessary for the flavours which are specifically for food use. They are in a separate 'Kitchen' section on the FlavourArt Italy website and carry appropriate warnings regarding their use. None of the flavours offered on the FA UK website contain Diacetyl or related Diketones, including Acetoin** and Acetyl Propionyl. FlavourArt flavours do not contain alcohol, sugars, protein, genetically modified ingredients, animal ingredients of any kind, preservatives, caffeine, sweeteners or colours. They are all gluten and peanut free, suitable for diabetics, vegetarian and vegans. The residual issue is that some people insist on 'natural', 'organic', or whatever other terms might be used to define flavours derived directly from the original product, rather than those 'artificial' flavours recreated by a flavorist. Removing Diacetyl from a 'natural' flavour is difficult and prohibitively expensive; removing it from an 'artificial' flavour is relatively simple, you just don't add it when creating the flavour. Can you use the concentrates with nut allergies? We are not aware of any contra evidence in respect of our nut flavours; the cause of allergic reactions is believed by scientists to be in the nut protein, which is not used in flavour manufacture.
**The reformulated Yoghurt flavour does contain a small percentage of Acetoin in order to retain its flavour profile;Acetoin is not currently considered potentially harmful according to research conducted by Dr. K. Farsalinos, but we advise against using it at extreme temperatures.


Acetoin
Acetoin, also known as 3-hydroxybutanone or acetyl methyl carbinol, with the molecular formula is C₄H₈O₂, is a colorless or pale yellow to green yellow liquid with a pleasant, buttery odor. Acetoin is a chiral molecule. Wikipedia
Formula: C4H8O2
Acidity (pKa): 13.72
Solubility in water: Soluble
Chiral rotation (D): -39.4
Refractive index (nD): 1.4171
Odor: bland, yogurt-like


BTW I use many flavor manufacture brands. I can taste Acetoin since it is a buttery type flavor. I can also smoke a cigarette and obtain Acetoin as well. I am not going to debate since that is fruitless and I debated this already in 2010.
 

Mikser

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@Mikser
You need to fix you FA info IT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG
ALl flavours are tested for diketones and its published
http://flavourartnaflavourreports.com/
SO stop saying they dont give info on that

Here we go again...

Matt, on your list ONLY flavors without diketones were tested. NOT ALL flavors. Flavors that contain D or AP are not tested and those are not on your list.

You can find all their flavorings on their official website here. Take your time and you will find about 30+ flavorings for which no testing reports are publicly released since they contain Diacetyl/AP.

Here is a list of FA flavorings that aren't on your link of reports (there may be others; i didn't check them all).

------------

Capella has similar policy. They publicly list testing reports ONLY for flavors which are D/AP/A free (here), but there are NO testing reports of flavorings with diketones (which they are selling) publicly available.

This is the fact here: These two companies are showing us testing reports of their diketone-free flavors and hide reports of flavors with diketones, while other companies publicly publish test reports of ALL their flavorings.

Now take a second (and i really ask you to take this second) and think about, what would it be, if all companies would be presenting only testing reports of their diketone-free flavorings? Would that be cool? Why publish any info about testings at all then? Using some data and hiding other data is not equal to those companies who show all data, good and bad; it is not a very best example of transparency and this information may be misleading to users.

------------

There is another thing with FA. They don't release any public information about Acetoin levels in their flavorings. Acetoin is Ketone, not Di-ketone, but it's not on a safe side and that's why companies are trying to reduce its levels, same like with D/AP. Since manufacturers know that this is an information that concerns some vapers, they are releasing their testing reports about all three, D, AP and A (and because of similar structure also the public and organizations are usually talking about these 3 molecules together).

On my top table (DAAP transparency) you will find out that all companies who have released test reports of their flavorings publicly, they all included test reports about Acetoin levels, except FA). Why is that? Is that transparent? Nope. They may say their flavorings are diketone free, which may be true (since Acetoin is not a DI-ketone), but that doesn't mean their flavorings are DAAP free.

Here is an example how twisted the information could be, if you hide info about Acetoin levels in your flavors. Here is a table of Flavor West flavorings:

image.png


Now please hide that column of Acetoin levels in their flavorings and see what you get... Very high levels of Acetoin are hidden and you get a twisted impression about very low levels of baddies in their flavors, right? It is misleading. Can you see the problem of hiding levels of Acetoin and what info we get if all companies decide to hide this info? Please think about it objectively.

And they do more testing on the effects of the flavorings on living cells that NOONE ELSE DOES
http://www.clearstreamonward.com/home-en/

I DO believe that FA is one of the leaders regarding safety in vaping industry and i applaud to their Clearstream testings and all other researches. I really do. I also believe that levels of Acetoin in their flavorings are below average. I said this before, about one third of my flavors are FA and most of them i will buy again (i am not that diketone concerned, because i somehow trust this company).

But this thread is about transparency and based on publicly available information about D-A-AP levels and not how much you and i 'trust' any company. To make it useful and unbiased we have to treat all companies equally, right? That is the only way to make any comparison meaningful and any information useful. This is the only way information is not misleading and manipulative and it is based on facts. And facts are what is officially published by the company and NOT what public opinion is or what a certain company's fan-club believes. Publicly released information only!

I said this numerous times and i will say it again – please help us make this information more useful and more transparent; if you have any other information that is publicly released about D-A-AP levels about FA or any other company, then please share it. If you have just an opinion or if you want to share a 'public truth' or if you are part of a fan club of a certain company or otherwise biased, then your contribution is welcome as well, but please do realize that is just that - your opinion, if it's not based on some facts. And your opinion cannot be included into D-A-AP TRANSPARENCY report and comparison. It's just your opinion.

It seems many would want from me to present manipulative information which is not based on facts = on publicly released information, but they want me to twist the comparison in favor of their favorite company. I can't do that; i am not involved in any vaping business and that is why i believe this is the most useful thread for diketone-concerned vapers ever (precisely because all is shown based on facts = publicly released info). Independent vapers may like it and those who are part of the industry or who believe in unsupported 'public truth' will hate it. The latter have their own fan clubs and numerous threads available, and info in this thread is meant primarily for the first ones, who don't have many other options.

Transparency is in any vaper's interest (if not involved in the industry). We all trust one company more than the other, not just in vaping, but overall, right? But why wouldn't someone (if not involved in the industry) want that some info stay hidden? Transparency is driving changes and we all know that in 15 years from now, we will be vaping totally different liquids than today and those will be even safer than today. More transparent companies will be, sooner this will happen and better for us, right?

So unless you are shilling for one of these other flavor companies tell the truth in your original post that you keep updating.
It is shamefull that even after you have been informed by people you keep incorrect info in your original post that you have updated

Do you see the paradox here? It is you who insists that i should rely on unsupported claims, public truth and manipulate the findings, while i want these findings keep independent and objective.

Disclaimer: I am is NOT affiliated in any manner with any company mentioned herein. This report and comparisons discussed are intended solely for information purposes. I cannot guarantee the validity of the information found in this thread. The content of any given information may recently have been incomplete, changed, vandalized or altered.

The content and references to manufacturers, their products or transparency are provided “as is” without warranties of any kind, either express or implied. No written information or advice given will create a warranty and you may not rely on any such information or advice. Any use of this information is at your own risk. If you need specific advice, please seek a professional who is licensed or knowledgeable in that area.

Feel free to challenge me, disagree with me, or tell me I’m completely nuts in the comments, but i will continue updating these info only based on manufacturer's official publicly released information, which only concerns me and not by personal opinions of some groups. Some vapers may read it and together we can make a positive change regarding transparency.
 
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iVapeDIY

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None of the flavours offered on the FA UK website contain Diacetyl or related Diketones, including Acetoin** and Acetyl Propionyl. FlavourArt flavours do not contain alcohol, sugars, protein, genetically modified ingredients, animal ingredients of any kind, preservatives, caffeine, sweeteners or colours.

Having it in their FAQ (which is captured by Google cache forever) is a 'written statement' and can be used as evidence in class action lawsuits, which FA will presumably not risk. While I would prefer actual Acetoin test results, this restores a significant amount of confidence.
 

iVapeDIY

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Acetoin is Ketone, not Di-ketone, but it's not on a safe side and that's why companies are trying to reduce its levels, same like with D/AP. Since manufacturers know that this is an information that concerns some vapers, they are releasing their testing reports about all three, D, AP and A (and because of similar structure also the public and organizations are usually talking about these 3 molecules together).

On my top table (DAAP transparency) you will find out that all companies who have released test reports of their flavorings publicly, they all included test reports about Acetoin levels, except FA). Why is that? Is that transparent? Nope. They may say their flavorings are diketone free, which may be true (since Acetoin is not a DI-ketone), but that doesn't mean their flavorings are DAAP free.

Excellent distinction. Diketone-free vs D-A-AP free.
 

Mikser

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Now i am checking their co.uk site and there all is clear (i mean only vaping flavors are there and they put a clever warning there as well). This is the way it should be.

On their official site this isn't the case - all flavors are mixed together there, there is no 'kitchen' or 'vaping' program. It is highly confusing since all bottles / stickers are the same and and people are mixing flavors and using those which FA considers 'Not suitable for vaping' (there are many recipes at ELR with those flavors which FA considers not safe for vaping). Why can't they make separate sites like for co.uk? It would be very useful for users and the company.
 

AndriaD

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Now i am checking their co.uk site and there all is clear (i mean only vaping flavors are there and they put a clever warning there as well). This is the way it should be.

On their official site this isn't the case - all flavors are mixed together there, there is no 'kitchen' or 'vaping' program. It is highly confusing since all bottles / stickers are the same and and people are mixing flavors and using those which FA considers 'Not suitable for vaping' (there are many recipes at ELR with those flavors which FA considers not safe for vaping). Why can't they make separate sites like for co.uk? It would be very useful for users and the company.

What is the URL for the co.uk site? I'd be very interested in consulting that!

Andria
 

wllmc

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are there any reports that say vaping TFA strawberry is safe for inhalation? what kind of studies have been conducted on inhalation of flavors that liquid barn or capellas sells comparing the toxicity to smoking cigarettes? I could give 2 shakes less about what vapers have deemed to be safe and unsafe. If we knew for sure what was safe and unsafe there wouldnt be debates by people on the internet on a vaping forum arguing about it. fact is there are little to no facts about any flavors.... other than Flavor Art because they test flavors for our purpose not just because the client base like to see if flavors have been tested for 3 little compounds...... IN A GREATER THAN OR LESS THAN SETTING... doesnt less than count? a flavor may have less than the base line a customer chooses but still in fact have D/A/AP.... Id like to see a yes or no test result... is it there yes or no in ANY given amount. thats transparency right there, correct me if Im wrong but what studies show that D/A/AP is even harmful in the extremely low quantities we are inhaling compared to that of the popcorn lung workers. what facts do any of us have inhaling 4 gallons of VG a year is safer than D/A/AP... Im just wondering because its a bit confusing how one could continue to ignore the Flavor Art Clearstream program and the years and years of actual inhalation testing providing everyone with hard numbers. if this were truly about transparency you would not ignore the clearstream reports after so many people have tried to chime in on it. yet you update any little other thing. you can have your opinion and no one can take it from you but if you are truly out to do good for the community than you would at least acknowledge the clearstream testing and edit your post as its the only company to test flavor for inhalation.
 

Mattp169

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there is NOTHING CONFUSING unless you have a hidden agenda
there are some flavors that do contain acetoin or diketones. THEY SAY SO PUBLICLY. they say you should not vape with them.
NO confusion.
Acetoin has to be ADDED to an artificial flavor for it to be there, since they dont add it why would they test for it.
Your OP needs updated because it is factually incorrect

you ask for help
we give it and you deny it
which leads me to believe you have a hidden agenda
 

Mikser

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What is the URL for the co.uk site? I'd be very interested in consulting that! Andria

It's not clear info there either (but their saying about all flavors to be DAP free may stand there + they completely separate kitchen and vaping flavors which is great). Their official website is better and more informational except that they need to separate somehow vaping and kitchen flavors. Because they don't, kitchen flavors are used for vaping (forums are full of messages about kitchen flavors and they rarely contain this fact that they are not for vaping, so users don't know that). This goes on and results in even more confusion with second hand dealers where there is no information at all that those flavors are not for vaping. I wish they will make their website more clear someday.

I will update info about FA soon.
 
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NGAHaze

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The FA website used to have the flavors listed separately but they had to change that for legal reasons ... a reason I'm relatively confident you can extrapolate.
 

AndriaD

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It's not clear info there either (but their saying about all flavors to be DAP free may stand there + they completely separate kitchen and vaping flavors which is great). Their official website is better and more informational except that they need to separate somehow vaping and kitchen flavors. Because they don't, kitchen flavors are used for vaping (forums are full of messages about kitchen flavors and they rarely contain this fact that they are not for vaping, so users don't know that). This goes on and results in even more confusion with second hand dealers where there is no information at all that those flavors are not for vaping. I wish they will make their website more clear someday.

I will update info about FA soon.

Well... I did find the URL, in your initial post about the co.uk site... and it's very helpful, as far as explaining what the flavors are, suggested percentages for mixing... but I'm not seeing any of the "warning" or "safety" advice. Where exactly do you find that?

Andria
 

AndriaD

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The FA website used to have the flavors listed separately but they had to change that for legal reasons ... a reason I'm relatively confident you can extrapolate.

And that's really the thing, isn't it? Vapers want the info so they can make informed choices. The ANTZ want the info so they can try to make vaping completely disappear. :facepalm: They want us to all go back to smoking, so they can keep raking in the death-money, and keep browbeating smokers about how evil they are... but they don't REALLY want any of them to actually quit, because that would reduce the death-money... they just want to have a group of people they can demonize, and feel more virtuous than.

Andria
 

wllmc

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Clearstream. It's a whole website and study focused specifically on what happens you you inhale the things we do. Double face palm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Mikser

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Well... I did find the URL, in your initial post about the co.uk site... and it's very helpful, as far as explaining what the flavors are, suggested percentages for mixing... but I'm not seeing any of the "warning" or "safety" advice. Where exactly do you find that?

Andria

here. http://www.flavourart.co.uk/kitchen-redirect.html

Cool info, everyone understands that (contrary to if all is in the same basket)
and there are two links below - each takes you to your desired flavors. This is what imo their official website desparately needs.
 

AndriaD

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here. http://www.flavourart.co.uk/kitchen-redirect.html

Cool info, everyone understands that (contrary to if all is in the same basket)
and there are two links below - each takes you to your desired flavors. This is what imo their official website desparately needs.

But as @NGAHaze pointed out, their site USED TO have that, but thanks to all the idiot ANTZ, they had to change it. It is not FA's fault that the idiot lawmakers want to get rich off smokers and vapers and don't give a rat's ass if we all die horribly, they'll get estate taxes then.

Andria
 

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are there any reports that say vaping TFA strawberry is safe for inhalation? what kind of studies have been conducted on inhalation of flavors that liquid barn or capellas sells comparing the toxicity to smoking cigarettes? I could give 2 shakes less about what vapers have deemed to be safe and unsafe. If we knew for sure what was safe and unsafe there wouldnt be debates by people on the internet on a vaping forum arguing about it. fact is there are little to no facts about any flavors.... other than Flavor Art because they test flavors for our purpose not just because the client base like to see if flavors have been tested for 3 little compounds...... IN A GREATER THAN OR LESS THAN SETTING... doesnt less than count? a flavor may have less than the base line a customer chooses but still in fact have D/A/AP.... Id like to see a yes or no test result... is it there yes or no in ANY given amount. thats transparency right there, correct me if Im wrong but what studies show that D/A/AP is even harmful in the extremely low quantities we are inhaling compared to that of the popcorn lung workers. what facts do any of us have inhaling 4 gallons of VG a year is safer than D/A/AP... Im just wondering because its a bit confusing how one could continue to ignore the Flavor Art Clearstream program and the years and years of actual inhalation testing providing everyone with hard numbers. if this were truly about transparency you would not ignore the clearstream reports after so many people have tried to chime in on it. yet you update any little other thing. you can have your opinion and no one can take it from you but if you are truly out to do good for the community than you would at least acknowledge the clearstream testing and edit your post as its the only company to test flavor for inhalation.
As far as I know NO flavorings are approved for inhalation in the USA.
All flavorings used are GRAS for ingestion not inhalation.

FA does seem to have done more research in this area than any other flavoring company though.
 

wllmc

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As far as I know NO flavorings are approved for inhalation in the USA.
All flavorings used are GRAS for ingestion not inhalation.

FA does seem to have done more research in this area than any other flavoring company though.

Exactly and there won't be any approved for inhalation for a long time. We should be patting all the big names on the back for stepping up and doing the testing and disclosure that they all do to accumulate evidence and facts so that someday they can come to a conclusion as to which Chemical compounds may or may not be safe to inhale until then we are all left just to make educated decisions and opinions based on our own and level of comfort.


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AndriaD

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Exactly and there won't be any approved for inhalation for a long time. We should be patting all the big names on the back for stepping up and doing the testing and disclosure that they all do to accumulate evidence and facts so that someday they can come to a conclusion as to which Chemical compounds may or may not be safe to inhale until then we are all left just to make educated decisions and opinions based on our own and level of comfort.


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Exactly this! I'm not really in favor of any vaping-specific regulations or laws, but full disclosure of chemicals? I'm totally in favor of that -- and we all do have differing levels of tolerance for various chemicals, but we can't choose what best suits us, unless we KNOW what we're choosing.

Andria
 

The Cromwell

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yep and come next year any flavorings that are advertising themselves for vaping will be set upon by the FDA.
why do you think that Bull City Vapors changed their name to Bull City Flavors.
Their recipe flavor package thing is a tactical legal mistake though. And it shows the FDA that they are promoting/selling flavorings for use in vaping....
 

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AndriaD

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The Cromwell

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Been vaping CAP V1 flavorings for over 2 years and not even dry knuckles yet.

Vaping is NOT totally safe. Just much safer than smoking according to all reliable data so far.

And vaping diacetyl cannot be compared to inhaling powdered diacetyl for 8 hours a day in a popcorn factory.
Kinda like comparing me spraying a can of paint for 15 minutes once every month with no respirator vs someone working in a factory spraying paint all day long with no respirator..

That fist link is an ANTZ favorite.
 
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gopher_byrd

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yep and come next year any flavorings that are advertising themselves for vaping will be set upon by the FDA.
why do you think that Bull City Vapors changed their name to Bull City Flavors.
Their recipe flavor package thing is a tactical legal mistake though. And it shows the FDA that they are promoting/selling flavorings for use in vaping....
BCF doesn't mention anything about vaping in the Community Recipe Packs. The displayed recipes only show the flavors, not PG/VG/Nic base. The only mentions of vaping are in the comments. These packs could very well be used for flavoring water or cakes or...
 

The Cromwell

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BCF doesn't mention anything about vaping in the Community Recipe Packs. The displayed recipes only show the flavors, not PG/VG/Nic base. The only mentions of vaping are in the comments. These packs could very well be used for flavoring water or cakes or...
I hope it is not legally incriminating for them.
They are my FAV flavor supplier.
 

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OK folks I want to make something very very very clear.
This thread needs fixed.
Vaping underground gets top 5 hits in google
on almost everything vaping related
and the original post is an outright LIE about FA and who knows what else. I mainly use FA and have done no research on these other companies to know how much information @Mikser is misrepresenting to the vaping community.

It is clear he is being deceitful and spreading false information on the first post

Numerous people have pointed out the facts about FA and even though he claims to want our help, he has still not made any change to the FA information in the original post

SO something is way off with this guy
SO now i fear people will google information on DA/AP and find this thread read the first couple posts and believe they have factual information.

Many of us know the facts are not correct in the original post about FA and who knows what else is incorrect.

This @Mikser person claims to be a long time lurker in his original post

Long time lurker, first time poster.

But has only been registered for 13 days
his first post is something very important to the DIY community
and it contains incorrect facts

mikser may work for a flavoring company or be an ANTZ for all we know. But until he changes the Original post to have factual data about FA , we can not take him serious or believe a word he types

This is not about what is or isnt safe to vape. This is about someone lying to the community as a whole even when faced with facts.
While we were all noobs at some point in time and we are all always learning new things.
This type of behavior is despicable. he is slandering a company who has done more research into the safety of vaping then anyone else in the world. He is basically calling anyone else who disagrees with his opinion liars.
The original post needs updated immediately or this thread should be deleted so his lies are not disseminated across the community as facts
 

Mattp169

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Here is a list of FA flavorings that aren't on your link of reports (there may be others; i didn't check them all).
This link to me make sit obvious he knows the truth about FA and refuses to publish it
if you click the link from post 70 and actually read the url bar in your browser you will see:
https://flavourart.com/index.php?su...vaping.&dispatch=products.search&page=1&sl=en

Look the words NOT SUITABLE FOR VAPING were searched to get this list
so either miskner typed that in or FA has that setup
SO its awfully convenient that the flavors not on the site with da/ap test results are the exact ones that ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR VAPING
I don't know how much more transparent you need to be to get this guys seal of approval for transparency
 

iVapeDIY

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Facts hmmmm ...

FA did not post acetoin test results. That is still a fact. Is acetoin present in FA flavors? We only have their word and a statement in their FAQ.

Is FA more trustworthy than other flavorists? Maybe; they have clearstream.com which is a plus.

Will I continue to buy more FA flavors? If acetoin tests are posted; absolutely. For now ... meh.
 

wllmc

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if anyone would take the time to email them they would get the answer for themselves, takes like 24 hrs since the whole "in different parts of the world" thing applies
 

The Cromwell

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Facts hmmmm ...

FA did not post acetoin test results. That is still a fact. Is acetoin present in FA flavors? We only have their word and a statement in their FAQ.

Is FA more trustworthy than other flavorists? Maybe; they have clearstream.com which is a plus.

Will I continue to buy more FA flavors? If acetoin tests are posted; absolutely. For now ... meh.
And your link you posted to the NIH is a favorite of the anti vaping crowd?
One of the links that cause people to say that vaping is just as bad as smoking.
Turning this thread off watched and hope it just dies.
 

wllmc

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me about a week into this thread..... hell if no one will email them Ill ask again. because for some reason I thought they just didnt use it so my question was very vauge but from my communications with them over the years they have never lied and always been straight forward with their answers. if you want a more specific question answered than I do then be more specific than me but ask for yourself and you will have an answer but they not only corrected me in the fact that they do use acetoin and why they dont publicly publish it. doesnty matter if anyone agrees its their answer.. and if anyone took the time to read over the clearstream program even though its really long and get tiresome trying to figure out what the heck it even means half the time since Im not in fact a docotor or chemist. you might understand more about it in general..and here we go


to support
cleardot.gif

hi I have been a customer of your company for many years, I mix my own Eliquid in the USA and love your product. I had a question I think I may have already asked in the past but I just wanted to see currently what your response to my question is. as it always does among new mixers in the community the question of acetoin in flavor art flavors. you guys publish more information than any other company on the planet and vapers who want a healthier alternative cant thank you enough for your effort. I know I cant. is the reason you dont have information to publish on acetoin because you dont use acetoin in your favors? I just want to have my facts straight as things change over the years and sometimes I forget to keep up on these things. hope you all have a wonderful day and keep up the good work !


Dear william

In respons to your ticket "E flavors".

Hello William
Thanks for email.

We do use acetoin in few flavors and generally at very low level, with exception of yogurt where it is used at higher amount.
The reason why we do not publish this info is due to the fact that based on our knowledge and latest info, it is not a cause of concern.

Cordiali saluti/Best regards,

Massimiliano




Sincerely,

FlavourArt
http://www.flavourart.com
 
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iVapeDIY

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And your link you posted to the NIH is a favorite of the anti vaping crowd?
One of the links that cause people to say that vaping is just as bad as smoking.
Turning this thread off watched and hope it just dies.

NIH is a reliable source ... they have debunked many naturopathic and herbal remedies ... if it doesn't fit your narrative, too bad.

In the end, it is all about preponderance of evidence, not belief ... not enough of the former, too much of the latter.
 

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