Diy juices horrible (noob)

[Synphul]

Ok folks I need some assistance. I'm new to diy so bear with me. I ordered some diy items from mbv to try making my own juices at home and nothing seems right about it. I've ordered premade from mbv in the past so that's what I'm comparing my results to.

I ordered some of their 50/50 pg/vg nic base at 24mg/ml nic which is higher than I typically vape which is 18mg/ml. I also ordered a few flavorings to go with which as I understand have 0 nic and are supposed to be pg only. By my math, if I use say 20% flavor my pg/vg should change from 50/50 to 60pg/40vg in the end product. My nic content should be diluted down to around 19.4mg/ml (80% of 24mg/ml is 19.4).

So far so good? Not even close. I've steeped my juice for going on 3 weeks now. I've shaken it, heated it by placing in a bowl of rice I heated in the microwave (rice only), I've squeezed the air out of the bottle and shaken some more. It tastes like 30% pg, 25% vg and 45% isopropyl alcohol or astringent. It's nasty and chemical.

The consistency is also way different. Obviously 65/35 pg/vg will be a bit on the runny side but I'm using clearo's on a vape pen. I double checked the premade I bought from them and it's much thicker, similar to thin oil. My diy is like straight tap water in viscosity. The 50/50 nic base solution in the bottle is far thinner than the finished 65/35 I've purchased and the 65% pg should be thinner.

I tasted a drop of premade on my fingertip, only a very slight burn/pepper from the nic with sweeter tastes of the flavor notes. Mine? Choke and cough up like I licked diesel fuel laced with pepper. Straight out of the mail (roughly a week of steeping) their juice tastes alright, it's vapable. Mine after nearly 3wks is as raw as you can get. Color of the juice has changed but still can't tolerate it and I've smoked cigars, swallowed the juice from chewing tobacco etc. I'm not a total wuss.

The off odor and flavor seems to be coming from the nic base itself but since it's premixed with 50/50 pg/vg I can't tell which of the 3 components is off. It appears clear in the bottle. Honestly I'd rather breath the fumes off the unleaded pump at the gas station.

Are these types of scenarios typical? Is it really 'off' or what is the deal? I could understand that steeping is the answer but if they make it to order the day you buy it and it takes (typically) less than a week to arrive theirs hasn't steeped for a month. Mine has steeped for much longer and is way too harsh. Considering the nic content should be nearly identical along with the pg/vg ratio as the premixed juices I've bought from them shouldn't my attempts at least be in the ballpark? Thanks in advance for any/all tips or advice.

 

[nightshard]

Never tried mvb so can't tell if they are any good or how concentrated are they.
Generally speaking 20% is way too high.

- Get PG/VG to dilute you nic base.
- Try your diluted base without flavors, to see if it has any nasty aftertaste or smell.
- Start with simple recipes and don't mix too many flavors together.
- Start with a lot less flavor and add only if needed.

 

[BKTOAD]

Lot of variables here.

Step 1 would be to vape your vg/pg base on its own. See if there are off flavors. One benefit to getting nic/pg/vg separate from eachother is the ability to isolate the problem, but for you it is all together.


Are you using recipes or kinda winging it with flavoring? I have 1 recipe that uses 20% flavoring. The rest are like 3% to 13% depending on flavoring. Some flavors really dry out the feel of the vape and are very harsh.

Is your nicotine base off colored or does it smell bad? It will have an odor but shouldn't be a strong odor.

 

[Artemis]

I have been vaping since 2010 and diy since late 2010. It is known that mbv utilizes flavorwest/vapor renu flavorings. I have read they are watered/diluted down as well. You are probably going to have to invest in a proprietary flavoring with more consistency.

A suggestion would be to check out some recipes here at VU and just buy those flavorings. I would also buy nic elsewhere (not mbv).

 

[Synphul]

I had read someplace that people use between 20-40% flavor on average but apparently that could be some bad info.

My flavors are simple, nothing mixed yet. Just straight flavor out of a flavor bottle and mixing it with the 50/50 base/nic premix. When ordering the premade versions I usually opt for double shots of flavor at least. I didn't know there could be good or bad nic or other ingredients so thought buying it premixed was the safest route.

The nic base is nice and pristine looking, completely clear. If I gently squeeze the bottle to waft some of the air out of it I can smell a similar scent to the taste I'm getting when I vape the juice. This nasty rubbing alcohol / burnt plastic type odor/taste. For instance pina colada. I've ordered their premade pina colada, 18mg/ml 65pg 35 vg and vaped it.

I bought some pina colada flavoring and mixed it with the nic/pg/vg base using 20% flavor to 80% base and there's this acrid chemical smell/taste coming off it. An aftertaste that doesn't exist with their premade pina colada. Also their premade 65/35 pg/vg (should be thinner) is actually thicker in the bottle than the 50/50 pg/vg nic base by itself.

 

[Synphul]

Just an update. I took a brand new clearo tank and put some straight pg/vg/nic base into it. It was strong, throat hit's pretty substantial but at 24mg/ml to be expected. The flavor was mild, somewhat sweet and I barely noticed the chemical taste. At least not past the strength of the nicotine, throat hit and tongue tingle.

I then added just a few drops of some butterscotch flavored juice that I mixed at 20% flavor to 80% base. I could start to taste the butterscotch just a little. I added 5 more drops to the straight nic base and I'm just now starting to get hints of that foul chemical flavor. Basically diluting my flavor back quite a bit. So too much flavor could indeed be the culprit.

Not sure where I read people were using 20-40% flavor, some seriously bad info there though. Unfortunately that's the reason I opted for 24mg/ml nic base, I didn't want to start with 18mg/ml and end up with 6-8mg/ml after adding flavoring (0 nic). Is it possible the high nic content is reacting badly with the flavor? This wasn't 5-10 drops of straight/raw flavor I added mind you, this is out of a bottle that's been heated/steeped for around 2 weeks and then diluted with fresh nic base.

Weird that I smell the same chemical odor when sniffing the straight nic base that I'm tasting mixed with my flavors but not tasting when vaping the nic base straight. I'll have to see about getting some plain vg to thicken the mix and dillute down the nicotine a bit. Hopefully reduce some of the throat hit while I'm at it, I don't mind some th but this stuff's pretty strong as is.

 

[RonJS]

I had read someplace that people use between 20-40% flavor on average but apparently that could be some bad info.

More often around here folks are using 2-4% flavor amounts. Depend on which flavor, sometimes a bunch more, but seldom over 16%. Many FW flavors can be in the 10% or so amounts.

Adding too much flavoring can decrease the flavor's sensations and taste. A chemical taste can also sometimes result. I suggest taking some of your mixed juice and diluting it by 50% with your base.

You may find perusing some of the Flavor West threads here beneficial. Like this one... http://vapingunderground.com/threads/the-much-hated-flavor-west-thread.203362/

Ron
----
"I am a road man for the lords of karma."- Hunter S. Thompson

 

[Synphul]

Thanks, the rancid part of the flavor seemed to decrease when diluted. I think I'll end up getting some plain vg to dilute the nic base and increase the vg ratio a bit. I've vaped some 0 and 3mg nic samplers and they taste alright. Not my fave but not nasty either. I've also vaped 65% vg and it does smooth out the vape for me without totally taking away the throat hit so I think the additional vg may work well.

RonJs, you mentioned FW a few times (flavor west I'm assuming?). Why the mention of FW, is that who provides the flavors to MBV?

Thankfully I've only mixed a few flavors, around 8ml for each since I'm just starting out. The largest flavor qty was the butterscotch, made up around 15-20ml or so of it. At least I left room in the 30ml bottles to make adjustments. With less flavor % the nic is definitely higher than I wanted by volume. I should have gone with 18mg/ml for such little flavor %.

 

[RonJS]

RonJs, you mentioned FW a few times (flavor west I'm assuming?). Why the mention of FW, is that who provides the flavors to MBV?

For years It's said most come from FW (Flavor West)
(see post #4 also)

Ron
---
"By knowing things that exist, you can know that which does not exist."- Miyamoto Musashi

 

[Synphul]

Thanks again for the help and suggestions. It may very well just be that I overdid the flavor. Right now cutting back the flavor means way too strong on the nic so I'll have to sort that out before I can go much further with it. Funds are a little tight at the moment, just put in an order for a new mod and tank. Just what I need, more heat and power to really taste my fantastic diy juices haha.

Any experience with nicvape's pure vg? Or any suggestions for decent vg? I'm not a total tightwad, it's not worth saving a dollar if it means the difference between garbage and better quality products but was thinking of picking up a 128ml bottle from them since the prices seem reasonable.

 

[nightshard]

PG/VG even the highest quality are both quite cheap, no point saving a buck on those.

 

[Synphul]

I've got no real experience with any of them, is nudenic a decent place for base juices? I've heard their nicotine is supposed to be pretty solid.

 

[RonJS]

Any experience with nicvape's pure vg? Or any suggestions for decent vg? I'm not a total tightwad, it's not worth saving a dollar if it means the difference between garbage and better quality products but was thinking of picking up a 128ml bottle from them since the prices seem reasonable.

Buying in volume & shipping costs are 2 key considerations of prudent DIY'ers.

Many here use....

http://www.bulkapothecary.com/raw-ingredients/other-ingredients-and-chemicals/glycerin/
or
glyCUBE VG
at
http://www.essentialdepot.com/product/CUBE-1PG3VG.html

Ron
-------
"The best is yet to come and won't that be fine."- Frank Sinatra

 

[Synphul]

Wow, those are some killer prices. Thanks so much for the info. For now I think a smaller bottle would be better if nothing else because I can't imagine going through 4gal of ejuice before it went bad. Definitely something to bookmark and keep in mind though. Very much appreciated.

 

[RonJS]

Wow, those are some killer prices. Thanks so much for the info. For now I think a smaller bottle would be better if nothing else because I can't imagine going through 4gal of ejuice before it went bad. Definitely something to bookmark and keep in mind though. Very much appreciated.

I and others simply buy one gallon at a time. Many believe at room temps. they can last 2 years. Feel free to look around those linked sites for other size options.

Ron
---
"When there is fear of failure, there will be failure."- George S. Patton

 

[Heabob]

Many FW flavors can be in the 10% or so amounts.

+ 1 This.

Weird that I smell the same chemical odor when sniffing the straight nic base

My guess is the NIC they are using, but both PG and VG can sometimes taste funny also.
But partially that's why many of us buy PG, VG, & NIC as separate items because it's easier to track down problems.
And make adjustments to PG/VG ratios & NIC amounts.
That way I can mix 0mg juice to see if the NIC is causing problems.
But as I'm only doing 3mg NIC level, the amount is low enough where the sub-par NIC isn't quite so noticeable.
That's why so many here like using the VT NIC so much, as most of us have never had any issues with it.

FW Butterscotch was the brand that MBV claimed they don't use anymore so...

However the real FW Butterscotch you would have no problems or chemical taste even at 10%+.
But 20% is a bit high for most, especially single flavors.
However if you had a recipe with like 10 different flavors, then 20% would not be unreasonable.
Then... much also depends on which flavors & brands are being used.
Take a little time to get the hang of things.

 

[LarryPer123]

You might want to start with Capella from Wizard Labs or others
IMO it is the most forgiving flavors
I use it at 10% with a 50/50 mix
Start with single flavors for now

 

[Synphul]

I've been checking out TFA and it seems like some places here in the U.S. carry FA so that's a good thing. Overseas shipping is pretty slow and expensive. I'd like to get into some of the more complex flavors but as suggested I've been concentrating on single flavors for now since I'm just starting out. I know everyone's tastes can be subjective. Not looking to sell juice or anything, just be able to come up with some quality flavors for myself.

Some that I've been impressed with so far are v2's 'red' which is a light clean tobacco with almost a sweet tea aftertaste. Halo's tribeca. I've enjoyed vapewild's flavors for the most part, smooth and full flavored, more 'polished' I guess. Vaperite on the other hand not so much, their flavors seem underdeveloped to me and there's an off taste with all their juices. Their ry4 variation tastes a bit like robitussin to me.

I'm going to check when I go to the store today to see if they have usp vg by chance. If not I'll just order a little for now, one thing at a time. See if I can dilute the nic base I have. I'm still not certain why my 50/50 base is more thin/runny than 65pg/35vg ready mixed ejuice. No way to test it so not sure if it's off at all but I'd like it a bit thicker as well as the nic toned down since I ordered it too strong for just 5-10% flavoring. Adding vg to it should take care of both of those things I think. Hoping I can save it so I don't have to get rid of a nearly full bottle of base.

 

[gopher_byrd]

Welcome to VU @Synphul !!!

Here's a homework assignment for you... Check out these sub-forums, you'll find a lot of your questions answered by folks who have been doing DIY for lots longer than me.
http://vapingunderground.com/forums/diy-e-liquid-guides-tips-tricks.49/
http://vapingunderground.com/forums/how-to-diy-tutorials.51/

When you're ready check the recipe forum:
http://vapingunderground.com/forums/diy-e-liquid-recipes.50/

Like @Artemis said pick out a couple of interesting recipes and just buy the flavors to make those recipes. I think I read where you like Halo's Tribeca, here's a clone recipe: http://vapingunderground.com/threads/clone-of-halos-tribeca.1957/ simple easy with just two flavors needed.

Places to buy flavors in the US:
http://www.bullcityvapor.com/ discount code VU6 for 6% off
http://www.ecigexpress.com/ discount code Underground10 for 10% off
Both BCV and ECX carry multiple flavor vendors and 10 ml bottles in the $2 to $3 range so you won't have to break the bank to get started. ECX does carry PG, VG, and nic as well.
Essential Depot has a deal where you can get a gallon of PG and a gallon of VG for $36 shipped!

For nic I recommend using 100 mg/ml in VG it's easier to work with in the long run. I know it sounds scary, but if you wipe up and wash any spillage quickly you should not have any problems.

Have fun! I'm 100% DIY now which reminds me I should sell the unopened bottles of various vendor juice I have laying around in the classies...

 

[Synphul]

Hey thanks for the heads up gopher_byrd. I'll have to check out the link to the tribeca clone. You're right it's one of my favorites and one I keep going back to. I've heard rocket puppy's got a pretty good ry4 but a bit more complicated, that one should be easier with just a couple ingredients. My only issue with the actual tribeca, it's a wick burner for some reason. I have to be real easy with it or I end up with singed crappy tasting wicks in a heartbeat.

 

[gopher_byrd]

Hey thanks for the heads up gopher_byrd. I'll have to check out the link to the tribeca clone. You're right it's one of my favorites and one I keep going back to. I've heard rocket puppy's got a pretty good ry4 but a bit more complicated, that one should be easier with just a couple ingredients. My only issue with the actual tribeca, it's a wick burner for some reason. I have to be real easy with it or I end up with singed crappy tasting wicks in a heartbeat.

Good call! RocketPuppy's RY4 or RP4 as I like to call it is for sure a staple in my vape diet! I make it 100 ml at a time so I always have some aged/steeped! It only has 5 flavors in it so it isn't that hard to make. I'm finding it really easy on the coils, I go through 50 ml or more before I have to change my wick.