Does vaping actually cause brain/heart/lung damage? (Serious Discussion)

[mixsomniac]

Carambrda I know you know who you are you are baby big vape suckin the teet and learning from big papa tobacco before he dies.
which is why you constantly change the subject. anything that could be taken slightly negatively about vaping and you attack another product that we already know is bad. Your afraid of the truth and I don't know why its still much better than ciggs which is what vape is all about.
but then you guys say "but parfume is bad mixsomnia!! so are diesel emissions and corporate greed!!!
4 out of 5 vapers know this and i know this because I ran 2 survey polls on reddit but thats not the topic of this thread so why did you come in here!?
is it at all possible to stay on topic and examine vaping by itself and possible health effects it has?
then you say but big pharma and big tobacco!!! : ad infinitum.
......guess not

 

[SteveS45]

2 survey polls on reddit

 

[SteveS45]

Didn't Reddit just delete all vaping content and reviewers?

 

[Ralph_K]

Didn't Reddit just delete all vaping content and reviewers?

No. They banned the sale and trade of ejuice. Other vape stuff is still allowed

 

[mixsomniac]

I know sarcasm dosen't translate well on written media but it dosen't seem to be your forte either steve

 

[mixsomniac]

I've been keeping score its 6 for mixsomnia 0 for steve jwill and cambrda combined!

 

[SteveS45]

22 posts and already a VU expert, you really are special~!

 

[jwill]

I have to say @mixsomniac , I am so glad you are here to educate everyone on the dangers of vaping and possible health related risks. It is good to finally have someone on board who knows everything and can get all of us ignorant people sorted out. I look very much forward to your insightful and thoughtfully researched information as well as all of the uplifting content you are going to provide this forum and its members.

 

[fq06]

I do a new build every 3 days and I also smell the wire as I'm dry burning it, I also rewick everyday and again I smell the wire as I'm dry burning.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a majority if not all of the heavy metals emitted above a certain temp and not at the temp we vape at with a wet wick?
Forgot the number and the number is different for different metals but over say 600° is where the metals that you don't want to inhale start emitting... and you are smelling those toxic vapors coming off the glowing red 800° wire?

Maybe just dry burn like normal... not whiffing it like rubber cement?

Sorry if this was mentioned earlier, I didn't read through all the bitching and dick sword fighting.

 

[mixsomniac]

steve nearly 12k posts of useless, and your welcome jwill do you have anything real to say yet? neither of you have made a single valid argument you guys just change the subject so its impossible to have any productive conversation, you guys started this by coming into this thread with nothing to say to OP except "big tobacco", "were all gonna die anyways" and "sounds like c**** addiction" just trolling there's more substance in my first 27 posts than all 12k of your posts that are just you drooling on the floor while you repeat the words "big tobacco"

edited for minor grammer so you can understand better

 

[Carambrda]

Carambrda I know you know who you are you are baby big vape suckin the teet and learning from big papa tobacco before he dies.
which is why you constantly change the subject. anything that could be taken slightly negatively about vaping and you attack another product that we already know is bad. Your afraid of the truth and I don't know why its still much better than ciggs which is what vape is all about.
but then you guys say "but parfume is bad mixsomnia!! so are diesel emissions and corporate greed!!!
4 out of 5 vapers know this and i know this because I ran 2 survey polls on reddit but thats not the topic of this thread so why did you come in here!?
is it at all possible to stay on topic and examine vaping by itself and possible health effects it has?
then you say but big pharma and big tobacco!!! : ad infinitum.
......guess not

Your selective ignorance of the fact I already said "not entirely without risk admittedly" should be proof enough that you are only trying to manipulate words.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5093181

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122698

Vaping saves many lives. Vaping is under constant heavy attack. Fragrances don't save any lives, on the contrary they are being portrayed as harmless when the reality is that a lot of them appear to be quite harmful to a lot of people. Yet, despite that, fragrances are not under constant heavy attack. That's like trying to defend smoking, knowing full well it is a sinking ship, by complaining about the quality of the lifeboat known as vaping. Nobody is forcing me, or you, to vape Pie Crust or any of the other TPA flavorings known to contain low amounts of furfuryl alcohol. But I am being forced to breathe shitty air for hours upon hours multiple times a week as a result from it getting turned to shit by those who think the behavior is still perfectly acceptable no matter how almost 1 person out of 3, myself included, might feel about that.

 

[mixsomniac]

no need to fq06. OP is probably never coming back but I admire you for being the first besides cromwell to say something related to the thread topic.
I personally don't dry burn any of my coils they seem to taste better and last longer
the whole oxide layer thing is really interesting to read about im just getting into it now.

 

[SteveS45]

27 posts

You must be using some New Math or you are just that special you have more posts than are recorded.

Maybe you believe whatever comes out of your mouth? Here you are proven wrong. Simple math also.

 

[mixsomniac]

were here to talk about these risks cambrda, not perfume. you changed the subject again

 

[mixsomniac]

You must be using some New Math or you are just that special you have more posts than are recorded.

Maybe you believe whatever comes out of your mouth? Here you are proven wrong. Simple math also.

hahahaha this just proves YOU have nothing to say

 

[Ralph_K]

Your selective ignorance of the fact I already said "not entirely without risk admittedly" should be proof enough that you are only trying to manipulate words.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5093181

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122698

Vaping saves many lives. Vaping is under constant heavy attack. Fragrances don't save any lives, on the contrary they are being portrayed as harmless when the reality is that a lot of them appear to be quite harmful to a lot of people. Yet, despite that, fragrances are not under constant heavy attack. That's like trying to defend smoking, knowing full well it is a sinking ship, by complaining about the quality of the lifeboat known as vaping. Nobody is forcing me, or you, to vape Pie Crust or any of the other TPA flavorings known to contain low amounts of furfuryl alcohol. But I am being forced to breathe shitty air for hours upon hours multiple times a week as a result from it getting turned to shit by those who think the behavior is still perfectly acceptable no matter how almost 1 person out of 3, myself included, might feel about that.

I don't get it doesn't alcohol evaporate during the steeping process?

 

[vandyman]

DAH! If vaping is harmful to you,
DO NOT DO IT.
Geez...

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[SteveS45]

No @mixsomniac it just proves what comes out of your office is complete BS and whatever you made up.

 

[jwill]

steve nearly 12k posts of useless, and your welcome jwill do you have anything real to say yet? neither of you have made a single valid argument you guys just change the subject so its impossible to have any productive conversation, you guys started this by coming into this thread with nothing to say to OP except "big tobacco", "were all gonna die anyways" and "sounds like crack addiction" just trolling there's more substance in my first 27 posts than all 12k of your posts that are just you drooling on the floor while you repeat the words "big tobacco"

edited for minor grammer so you can understand better

You are arguing a mute point. In fact you are the only person arguing and only for the sake of arguing. No one is changing the subject either as it is all perfectly valid to the conversation about shit we are putting on and into ourselves that is really killing us. The difference is you are focused on minutia while others are actually focusing on things that are actually killing people and in large numbers.

More people have died from talcum powder than have died from vaping.

Get real dude. In the cosmic scheme of things no one really gives a shit. If you drink alcohol, have ever taken street drugs, pharmaceuticals, eaten food, drank city water, driven a car, had unprotected sex in New York City, smoked, or anything else you have an increased chance of dying. The chances of all of us dying is 100%. You can worry about trace elements of potentially dangerous substances and I will just accept that my days are numbered and enjoy the shit out of vaping.

 

[mixsomniac]

kay but this has nothing to do with health of effects of vaping. if thats your attitude why aren't you smoking still? vandyman is vaping bad for you?
that is the question here and your wrong jwill reread the topic title.

no idea if furfuryl completely evaportates Ralph, I think it depends what it's evaporating from apparently it shouldn't in water because vapor pressure and something called henry's law but in dry soil it could so in VG and PG I don't know that was a good question though

 

[mixsomniac]

im focused on the truth Jwill, however beautiful, ugly, big, or small.

 

[jwill]

kay but this has nothing to do with health of effects of vaping. if thats your attitude why aren't you smoking still? vandyman is vaping bad for you?
that is the question here and your wrong jwill reread the topic title.

no idea if furfuryl completely evaportates Ralph, I think it depends what it's evaporating from apparently it shouldn't in water because vapor pressure and something called henry's law but in dry soil it could so in VG and PG I don't know that was a good question though

No it doesn't have anything to do with vaping and vaping has no known or proven links to brain, lung or heart damage beyond your amazing work you have done with your Reddit polls so this whole damn conversation is about scare tactics and "what if's".

Talking about others pushing the conversation in circles, thats exactly what you are doing.

 

[jwill]

im focused on the truth Jwill, however beautiful, ugly, big, or small.

What truth? That there may potentially be harmful substances and possible side effects with vaping? Get real dude, its no secret. Everyone participating signed a silent waiver to that fact.

More people have died from fishing accidents this year alone than have died from vaping since its inception.

 

[mixsomniac]

if your really asking me this then you are the one pushing the convo in circles. refer to my first post Jwill, i think memes are more on your level though

 

[mixsomniac]

its like your saying we know smoking isn't 100% so lets not do any research on it or talk about the health risks at all. insane

 

[jwill]

People are doing research, lots of them and much more than a couple of Reddit polls and so far the research is saying all of the other shit in your life is more of a concern.

To each his own.

 

[SteveS45]

People are doing research, lots of them and much more than a couple of Reddit polls

Since Reddit is selectively banning some vaping topics I have to question all the content.

 

[mixsomniac]

you STILL think I was being serious about the reddit polls it was reference to the unreferenced american/australian polls one of you 3 touted and yep you said ummmmm... the best that you could have ......to each his own and I decide what is my concern thanks jwill! not the first or last time you contradicted yourself in the same line or paragraph

 

[jwill]

And it certainly will not be the last. That's one of the amazing things about being human.

Fun fact, more people have died from STD's this year than have died from vaping ever.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

 

[SteveS45]

 

[5150sick]

Brain / Heart / Lung

1) Brain

In the late 80's / early 90's when I was a Teen they told us not to smoke because nicotine harms the developing brain.
My brain wouldn't fully develop until the legal smoking age of 18.

Now they tell us not to smoke because nicotine harms the developing brain.
My brain wouldn't fully develop until the age of 25!!!!

So what going to happen next?

Scientists are eventually going to discover the obvious that the human brain only stops developing when your life is near it's end.

I know for a fact that my brain is much more developed at 43 than it was when I was 25.

Does anyone on this forum think they are as equally smart as they were 10 years ago?
Does anyone think they are less intelligent? (not counting new brain diseases or very old age)


2) Heart

Nicotine causes the same thing to happen to your heart as coffee. (Caffeine)
It speeds up slightly and your veins tighten a small amount but it goes away in minutes.

I personally do not drink coffee so that's half of the problem I don't even have.

If the "problem" with nicotine and caffeine were such a big deal then tell me where is Caffeine Control?
So it's obvious that this isn't a problem but more of a talking point to add to the list of things they don't like with smoking so they can restrict it's use in public.

3) Lung

Literally 100% of lung cancer cases have been called "smoking related"
Even if the person never smoked the doctor would just say "Well your Mom smoked until you were 5 so...." or some stupid shit that makes no sense.

Eventually a 40 year smoker will switch to vaping then get lung cancer from the 40 years of smoking and some tobacco control quack will blame it on vaping.
it's just a matter of time and finding the next dying poster child who switched from smoking from 1975 to 2015 to vaping.


They won't even mention the smoking in the "Truth" TV AD.
That shit will be like 'Meet Jenny, A 60yr old Grandmother. She started vaping in 2015 and now has stage 4 lung cancer'

Also Remember to always use common sense.
If you are blessed to have a large amount of it you will be able to see through the average Tobacco Control Propaganda.
You also have the tools at your fingertips to be able to research topics and find actual scientists that debunk a ton of these pseudo science tobacco control "study's"

I would suggest to anyone reading this to check out these sources of good information about THR (Tobacco Harm Reduction) and the great doctors and scientists who are on the front lines of the fight for the rights of the public to receive correct information from our government.

Right now we are receiving propaganda, misinformation, scaremongering, and at times outright lies from out government about THR

CASAA Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/casaamembers/

Greg Conley Twitter (President of the American Vaping Association): https://twitter.com/GregTHR

Dr. Michael Siegel (Expert in Tobacco Control / Public Health): https://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com

Dr. Brad Rodu (Tobacco Truth Blog): https://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com

The official scientific blog of Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos: http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php

 

[vandyman]

kay but this has nothing to do with health of effects of vaping. if thats your attitude why aren't you smoking still? vandyman is vaping bad for you?
that is the question here and your wrong jwill reread the topic title.

no idea if furfuryl completely evaportates Ralph, I think it depends what it's evaporating from apparently it shouldn't in water because vapor pressure and something called henry's law but in dry soil it could so in VG and PG I don't know that was a good question though

Vaping is good for me.
No more Marlboros... Yah!

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[5150sick]

Think about this simple truth.

Tobacco Control has been telling us for more than a Half Century that smoking leads to lung cancer in a large percentage of lifetime smokers.
I am not here to debunk that because it's true.

So they started with the Truth back in 1964 when the Surgeon General made the very first US Government proclamation that Lung Cancer can be linked to Smoking


THEN....
They move the goal posts.

Smoking indoors may cause lung cancer in others (Second Hand Smoke)
Smoking OUTDOORS can cause others to breathe SHS.

TOBACCO (no longer "smoking") causes lung cancer
Vaping (which contains no tobacco) is a "Tobacco Product"

You see where I'm going here?



I have this nifty chart from our "Friends" at Tobacco Control:
Lung Cancer rates both sexes all races from 1973 to 2010

I don't know what these types of lung cancer mean or how they are caused so I looked and found this nifty pie chart:

So if Squameous and Small Cell Lung Cancers are mostly smoking related you will see from the first chart that from 1973 to 2010 there was only a 0.1 drop even though the smoking rate dropped from 35% to 17% from 1973 to 2010.
Plus look at adenocarcinoma which "can" be caused by smoking.
It has skyrocketed since 1973.

(Look at the 2020 goal of 12% adult 16% youth smoking rate in the chart above. Vaping blew that the fuck away. Youth smoking in 2017 was HALF at 8%. Tobacco Control should be bowing down to the vaping industry for doing something they couldn't dream of)

Does this make sense?


Also why aren't these great cancer slaying warriors in Tobacco Control worried about adenocarcinoma (Blue line in the first chart) that is caused by environmental issues and has skyrocketed among all races and sexes?

Doesn't it seem the least bit odd to anyone that at the exact time the cigarette rolling machine was invented (which tobacco control blames for just about every lung cancer case) around the same time the combustible engine automobile assembly line was invented?

Wouldn't common sense tell you that it could be the latter that's causing a lot of lung cancer?



Car exhaust fumes aka Carbon Monoxide is perfectly safe when spewing out of an exhaust pipe but Carbon Monoxide from Cigarettes is the worse thing on planet earth?

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/are-you-at-risk/carbon-monoxide-in-cigarettes/

 

[Carambrda]

I don't get it doesn't alcohol evaporate during the steeping process?

I don't think furfuryl alcohol evaporates that easily. It is denser than water and its boiling point is at 170 °C (338 °F) versus 188.2 °C (370.8 °F) for propylene glycol and 290 °C (554 °F) for vegetable glycerine so probably you'd have to steep it at more than just a few degrees above room temp and for a really very long time to see a difference worth noting, which also probably would ruin the flavor first. IMO it would be much easier to just avoid (or maybe limit your use of) the flavorings in question if it bothers you, even if that doesn't give you any guarantees about other potential risks the long-term magnitudes of which are still unknown. Importantly, what is known to us is that Royal College of Physicians are saying that "around 95% safer" than smoking is still a realistic estimate, and the estimate is taking that unknown factor also into account, and followup research of the unknown is in order so for now that's basically it until new evidence unfolds itself.
http://www.ecigclick.co.uk/says-vaping-95-safer-smoking
Under "Background" in this Public Health England press release from earlier this year, #5 further clarifies the estimate is still being realistic:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/phe-publishes-independent-expert-e-cigarettes-evidence-review

EDIT: I forgot to mention, TPA has a list of TPA flavorings that contain furfuryl alcohol.
https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx?cas=98-00-0

 

[AndriaD]

haha maybe you just notice your foot stink more now, I can smell things I never could before I quit smokes, oh and taste too loving that.
Jwill think's i will deter people from starting vaping but I really think most people will end up here like I did because I was having symptoms and was seriously considering quitting vaping, the research and minor testing I did helped me keep on vaping and not go back to ciggies. what % of vapers are really on this forum especially BEFORE they start vaping? .0001%? less??

Not this forum, but the other one full of self-righteous asshats, I was on that one before I really started vaping, because I had tried a few disposable vapes and found them severely underwhelming if not downright icky, so i went to google who sent me to ECF, a/k/a Asshat Central.

I can kinda see both sides; I definitely think that vaping is a MUCH!!! lesser "evil" than smoking, right up there with bubblegum chewing -- which will rot your teeth, you know. Vaping caused a pretty severe exacerbation of my asthma though, which is surprising since most asthmatics and COPD-sufferers see a marked improvement in their symptoms -- I definitely did not, in fact quite the reverse -- I never needed Advair when I smoked, but I definitely started needing it after I'd been quit about 3-4 months -- a fact I attribute to the topical anesthetics and bronchodilators in commercial cigarette "tobacco". But vaping won't cause cancer, and smoking definitely will, so I huff my Advair and give thanks for a technology that permits something I NEVER thought would happen -- quitting smoking.

And unlike probably 85%-90% of vapers, I can't vape in the "modern" style -- massive vapor thx to massive VG and humongous wattage and foolishly low resistance; I still vape in 2014 style -- less than 10w, 1.8 ohms, 87% PG. It got me to quit smoking, so why on earth would I possibly need any "more"? And high VG and high heat cause me SERIOUS problems for my asthma, so, other than a few unfortunate experiments, I continue to vape like it's 2014.

Vaping also caused my chronic borderline dehydration to become so severe, my electrolytes went bananas and gave me "cankles"; not only am I vain of my tiny ankles, I knew that was a serious symptom, so I went nuts trying to find the fix -- turns out, lots of caffeine is a real bad thing when you have chronic dehydration, and salt is, too -- I started drinking coconut water daily (for the potassium and general hydration support), and decreased my caffeine by about 80%, my salt intake by about 50% -- and the cankles went away and have stayed gone, as long as I keep drinking coconut water.

So yes, one needs to be aware that vaping does have a significant impact on one's health -- generally positive, but there are certain individuals who may have various issues with this or that aspect of vaping; there is no denying that at all. But I do think it does vaping and those who may be interested in trying it in order to give up coffin nails a huge disservice to be too strident in criticizing vaping.

As to your ringing ears... do you vape much PG? I've heard that it can cause tinnitus.

Andria

 

[5150sick]

And unlike probably 85%-90% of vapers, I can't vape in the "modern" style -- massive vapor thx to massive VG and humongous wattage and foolishly low resistance; I still vape in 2014 style -- less than 10w, 1.8 ohms, 87% PG. It got me to quit smoking, so why on earth would I possibly need any "more"? And high VG and high heat cause me SERIOUS problems for my asthma, so, other than a few unfortunate experiments, I continue to vape like it's 2014.
Andria

Have you tried the new smaller pod type devices with salt nic eliquid yet?

I have been carrying around a brick in my hand since 2014 (Sigelei 150 watt non TC to Holm Wrecker G2 both the same size - huge) with a huge tank or RTA on top.
Of course I was cloud chucking 3mg/ml 80% to Max VG eliquid.
At all times, even in public

I'm a vaper and I love my big setups but in public when I see another vaper ripping a huge cloud they look like a total asshole doing it to me and especially non smokers around them.

I feel that this style of vaping may be scaring non smokers and even current smokers away from embracing this life saving technology.

So I got a Pod Device and 25mg/ml nic salt eliquid for when I'm out in public.
I rarely ever get a dirty look now where before when I was a human smoke stack I'd rarely NOT get a dirty look.

I finally found a Pod device I love and the first one was at a Halo $1 deal.
It's the Aspire Gusto Mini.
I refill the Pods with Mr. Salt Strawberry 25mg/ml

I can slip TWO of them in my pocket and they are barely noticeable.

It feels like I grew an extra arm now that one has become detached from that brick I was carrying for 4 years

 

[SteveS45]

It feels like I grew an extra arm now that one has become detached from that brick I was carrying for 4 years

That Brick is wonderful for hitting some dumbass upside the head who wants to tell you Vaping is worse than smoking because they heard it on CNN.

 

[Carambrda]

were here to talk about these risks cambrda, not perfume. you changed the subject again

IMO the 2 survey results demonstrate, overwhelmingly, that there is systemic scaremongering going on against vaping because else the public health concern caused by fragrances would be getting serious attention from the self-defined health organizations that, when it comes to risks of what we breathe, have primarily been targeting vaping instead.

 

[5150sick]

Now honestly if I was going to guess at what the "harms" from vaping will be in 30 to 50 year long vapers it would be two:

1) Throat Hit (A cute name for Chronic throat irritation)

2) Some flavoring agents

Neither of these Vaping "Harms" combined will be close to 5% of the harms caused by Smoking in 30 to 50 year long smokers.

 

[AndriaD]

Have you tried the new smaller pod type devices with salt nic eliquid yet?

I have been carrying around a brick in my hand since 2014 (Sigelei 150 watt non TC to Holm Wrecker G2 both the same size - huge) with a huge tank or RTA on top.
Of course I was cloud chucking 3mg/ml 80% to Max VG eliquid.
At all times, even in public

I'm a vaper and I love my big setups but in public when I see another vaper ripping a huge cloud they look like a total asshole doing it to me and especially non smokers around them.

I feel that this style of vaping may be scaring non smokers and even current smokers away from embracing this life saving technology.

So I got a Pod Device and 25mg/ml nic salt eliquid for when I'm out in public.
I rarely ever get a dirty look now where before when I was a human smoke stack I'd rarely NOT get a dirty look.

I finally found a Pod device I love and the first one was at a Halo $1 deal.
It's the Aspire Gusto Mini.
I refill the Pods with Mr. Salt Strawberry 25mg/ml

I can slip TWO of them in my pocket and they are barely noticeable.

It feels like I grew an extra arm now that one has become detached from that brick I was carrying for 4 years

No, I haven't tried those, for a couple or three reasons: 1) I want nothing that isn't rebuildable, and my Achilles is the ONLY vape I like at all; 2) I'm not addicted to nicotine at all -- I've vaped at 3mg or less for more than 2 yrs, and back in Feb when i had that godawful flu and couldn't vape at all for more than 10 days, I felt no withdrawal whatsoever, didn't even really miss it; and 3) my Minibooks really aren't bricks, nor my CF4's. They're just the right size for my hands:



Andria

ETA: PS: and I have NEVER "ripped a huge cloud"; what I exhale is about the same as what I exhaled as a smoker... but dissipates faster and smells one HELL of a lot better.

 

[Carambrda]

Now honestly if I was going to guess at what the "harms" from vaping will be in 30 to 50 year long vapers it would be two:

1) Throat Hit (A cute name for Chronic throat irritation)

2) Some flavoring agents

Neither of these Vaping "Harms" combined will be close to 5% of the harms caused by Smoking in 30 to 50 year long smokers.

3) Shinyolightis obglitterants (popcorn toe)

 

[The Cromwell]

One thing is certain for me.
with the amount of lung inflammation and soreness from one days vaping a juice that does not agree with me.
If I kept it up I would have lung damage.
And per a doctor at a full physical this spring I have very good lungs.
he had trouble believing that I was a 40 yr smoker. I told him he would have seen much worse results if I had not switched to vaping 3 years ago.
But the reason I still have good lungs is that I do not vape flavorings and such (sweeteners?) that do not agree with me.

 

[SteveS45]

 

[skt239]

Vaping has definitely caused brain to my damage.

 

[jwill]

Think about this simple truth.

Tobacco Control has been telling us for more than a Half Century that smoking leads to lung cancer in a large percentage of lifetime smokers.
I am not here to debunk that because it's true.

So they started with the Truth back in 1964 when the Surgeon General made the very first US Government proclamation that Lung Cancer can be linked to Smoking


THEN....
They move the goal posts.

Smoking indoors may cause lung cancer in others (Second Hand Smoke)
Smoking OUTDOORS can cause others to breathe SHS.

TOBACCO (no longer "smoking") causes lung cancer
Vaping (which contains no tobacco) is a "Tobacco Product"

You see where I'm going here?



I have this nifty chart from our "Friends" at Tobacco Control:
Lung Cancer rates both sexes all races from 1973 to 2010

I don't know what these types of lung cancer mean or how they are caused so I looked and found this nifty pie chart:

So if Squameous and Small Cell Lung Cancers are mostly smoking related you will see from the first chart that from 1973 to 2010 there was only a 0.1 drop even though the smoking rate dropped from 35% to 17% from 1973 to 2010.
Plus look at adenocarcinoma which "can" be caused by smoking.
It has skyrocketed since 1973.

(Look at the 2020 goal of 12% adult 16% youth smoking rate in the chart above. Vaping blew that the fuck away. Youth smoking in 2017 was HALF at 8%. Tobacco Control should be bowing down to the vaping industry for doing something they couldn't dream of)

Does this make sense?


Also why aren't these great cancer slaying warriors in Tobacco Control worried about adenocarcinoma (Blue line in the first chart) that is caused by environmental issues and has skyrocketed among all races and sexes?

Doesn't it seem the least bit odd to anyone that at the exact time the cigarette rolling machine was invented (which tobacco control blames for just about every lung cancer case) around the same time the combustible engine automobile assembly line was invented?

Wouldn't common sense tell you that it could be the latter that's causing a lot of lung cancer?



Car exhaust fumes aka Carbon Monoxide is perfectly safe when spewing out of an exhaust pipe but Carbon Monoxide from Cigarettes is the worse thing on planet earth?

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/are-you-at-risk/carbon-monoxide-in-cigarettes/

Shit dude. This was educational as hell. I just filled up my to read list with ditties from this awesome bit of info. Thank you.

 

[AndriaD]

Think about this, too: BP and the FDA and all their sycophants keep saying that smokers should use "FDA approved methods." Because, guess what, those FDA approved methods cost a lot of money -- at least as much as smoking, unlike vaping -- and BP profits... nevermind that those methods don't work, and can be very dangerous. They'll say the same thing about "homeopathic" or "natural" cures for things... but I am here to tell you that ginger works just as well, if not even better than, dramamine, for nausea, and probably for motion sickness, since that is the "on label" use for Dramamine -- ginger beats it. But BP can't profit from ginger, so they don't say a word about it. It even works for pregnancy nausea, and hey guess what, unlike thalidomide, it doesn't cause babies to be born with flippers instead of arms/legs. Stick that in your atty and vape it, big pharma, you greedy unethical fuckers (along with the FDA and all the .org sycophants)!

Andria

 

[5150sick]

Shit dude. This was educational as hell. I just filled up my to read list with ditties from this awesome bit of info. Thank you.

I was saying earlier to the other mods that I should copy/paste it where more people will see it.

But on the front of pseudo science and the fact that even the most highly respected scientific journals will accept a study no matter how stupid.

This is the one I usually use if some dipshit tries to argue with me:
(The BMJ is one of the highly respected scientific journals)

Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma related to gravitational challenge: systematic review of randomised controlled trials

https://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459



Abstract

Objectives To determine whether parachutes are effective in preventing major trauma related to gravitational challenge.

Design Systematic review of randomised controlled trials.

Data sources: Medline, Web of Science, Embase, and the Cochrane Library databases; appropriate internet sites and citation lists.

Study selection: Studies showing the effects of using a parachute during free fall.

Main outcome measure Death or major trauma, defined as an injury severity score > 15.

Results We were unable to identify any randomised controlled trials of parachute intervention.

Conclusions As with many interventions intended to prevent ill health, the effectiveness of parachutes has not been subjected to rigorous evaluation by using randomised controlled trials. Advocates of evidence based medicine have criticised the adoption of interventions evaluated by using only observational data. We think that everyone might benefit if the most radical protagonists of evidence based medicine organised and participated in a double blind, randomised, placebo controlled, crossover trial of the parachute.

 

[bobnat]

Think about this simple truth.

Tobacco Control has been telling us for more than a Half Century that smoking leads to lung cancer in a large percentage of lifetime smokers.
I am not here to debunk that because it's true.

So they started with the Truth back in 1964 when the Surgeon General made the very first US Government proclamation that Lung Cancer can be linked to Smoking


THEN....
They move the goal posts.

Smoking indoors may cause lung cancer in others (Second Hand Smoke)
Smoking OUTDOORS can cause others to breathe SHS.

TOBACCO (no longer "smoking") causes lung cancer
Vaping (which contains no tobacco) is a "Tobacco Product"

You see where I'm going here?



I have this nifty chart from our "Friends" at Tobacco Control:
Lung Cancer rates both sexes all races from 1973 to 2010

I don't know what these types of lung cancer mean or how they are caused so I looked and found this nifty pie chart:

So if Squameous and Small Cell Lung Cancers are mostly smoking related you will see from the first chart that from 1973 to 2010 there was only a 0.1 drop even though the smoking rate dropped from 35% to 17% from 1973 to 2010.
Plus look at adenocarcinoma which "can" be caused by smoking.
It has skyrocketed since 1973.

(Look at the 2020 goal of 12% adult 16% youth smoking rate in the chart above. Vaping blew that the fuck away. Youth smoking in 2017 was HALF at 8%. Tobacco Control should be bowing down to the vaping industry for doing something they couldn't dream of)

Does this make sense?


Also why aren't these great cancer slaying warriors in Tobacco Control worried about adenocarcinoma (Blue line in the first chart) that is caused by environmental issues and has skyrocketed among all races and sexes?

Doesn't it seem the least bit odd to anyone that at the exact time the cigarette rolling machine was invented (which tobacco control blames for just about every lung cancer case) around the same time the combustible engine automobile assembly line was invented?

Wouldn't common sense tell you that it could be the latter that's causing a lot of lung cancer?



Car exhaust fumes aka Carbon Monoxide is perfectly safe when spewing out of an exhaust pipe but Carbon Monoxide from Cigarettes is the worse thing on planet earth?

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/are-you-at-risk/carbon-monoxide-in-cigarettes/

Very informative and worth looking into.

 

[vandyman]

!

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[Carambrda]

I still vape in 2014 style

I only do 1337.