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EVOLV SUES JOYETECH / WISMEC / ELEAF / ISMOKA OVER THE RX200

VaporJoe

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Evolv is suing Joyetech over the RX200 and many other products.

I really think this is about the RX200 more then anything. The RX200 is the most popular mod in the industry, unfortunately for Evolv the Joyetech version is far more popular. Why? because people don't want to pay $150 for something they can get for $34. People vote with their pockets and though I think Evolv's chip is superior - its not worth $100 more. Hana was DESTROYED when they sued people a few years ago -- I don't think this will help Evolv.

On a side note: Brandon (owner of Evolv) -- Some say that's what you get for doing back alley deals with China...
You were warned that this was going to happen... You didn't listen...


LINK TO THE LEGAL DOCS HERE: >> HERE <<

** Please save a copy of the documents -- they may be taken down at any moment **



YEBc6Ewy8i0


Click here to get more information on this deal....
 

fuzzyone

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Sounds like Evolv is just butt hurt due to their money train getting cut off...but what the hell did they expect? If you go to china to mass produce something, you're going to get cloned.

Just like Hana, I've lost all respect for them. Evolv and Hana will never get another cent from me.
 

Mike O

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I wasn't into evolv to begin with. Too expensive for me. Seems like they want to be like Apple and charge the farm to use their shit. Rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning. Fuck them. Long live Joyetech. If they win this lawsuit, the vaper loses. I don't see the RX200 as a clone. I see it as a better more user friendly product for the vaper.
 
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JERUS

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Yeah fuck patent laws!
 

Visus

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Yeah fuck patent laws!
Not just patent law they are suing over, its the whole kit and kaboodle idea. Their trying to corner every board made with a wattage adjust for the ecig industry.
Wismec Reuleaux RX 200, Wismec Presa Standard, Wismec Presa TC75W, Wismec Presa TC40W, Wismec VaporFlask series (including at least the Classic, Lite, and Stout models), Joyetech Cuboid, Joyetech eVic Series (including at least the VT, VTC, and VTC mini models), Joyetech eGrip Series (including at least the VT and OLED models), Joyetech eCom wattage controlled, Joyetech eMode, and Eleaf iStick series (including at least the Eleaf Mini iStick 10W, Eleaf Mini iStick Case 8:16-cv-00459 Document 1 Filed 03/09/16 Page 18 of 24 Page ID #:18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 BAKER & HOSTETLER LLP ATTORNEYS AT LAW COSTA MESA 18 Complaint for Patent Infringement 20W, Eleaf iStick 20W, Eleaf iStick 30W, Eleaf iStick 50W, Eleaf iStick 100W, Eleaf iStick TC40W, Eleaf iStick TC60W, and Eleaf iStick TC100W models), and the circuit boards contained within each of them, (collectively, vaporizer products and circuit boards are “Accused Products”).
Trademark and patent... Awesome if they win but.....

IMO There's literally no way their lawsuit will hold water as the boards if analyzed are significantly different in every claim I read..
 

lordmage

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one of the problems with having a patient on a product is that if you don't attempt to enforce it when you believe it was infringed upon is that it loses its weight.
 

vuJim

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Anybody have any details on the exact claims of infringement? It sounds like what Evolv may have is a methods patent, but, without details, no way to know.

You cannot patent an idea. To be patentable: An idea has to be "realized." The closest you can come to patenting an idea is a thing called a "methods patent." A methods patent presents an idea and the method by which that idea can be realized. The trick to using a methods patent to cover all ways in which an idea may be realized, thus effectively patenting the idea, itself, is to define the realization of the idea in such a manner that it essentially covers all the bases. But, if the realization of the idea is too vague, one runs the risk of the patent application being rejected, it being thrown out on a challenge, or (parts of) it infringing on other patents.

Methods patents are tricky.

Then, as with any patent, there is the question of non-obviousness. In the instant case, assuming variable wattage control is the infringement in question: Is it the very idea of using VW to control a vaping apparatus' heating element? Given that variable voltage, at least, existed in prior art, it's hard to imagine the idea of VW being anything but obvious. But that's one of patent law's trickiest minefields: Non-obviousness. It's very subjective.

N.B.: IANAL, patent or otherwise, nor do I play one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

As for Evolv: If they have a valid patent: I hope they get every penny due them. If they're simply trying to make money fast: I hope they get reamed into insolvency.
 

Zamazam

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I look at it this way, Brandon gave China the design(s) so he could make the boards cheaper and gain more profit, plus probably licensing the patent to a number of companies. China took the design, made changes and then started to pump out the RX200 and related boards/mods while making the DNA200 for Evolv and making mods using the DNA200 board, selling then wholesale back to distributors here in the USA.

Brandon simply fucked himself and Evolv with the deals he cut, how could he not know that China would take the design and modify it and pump out mods for a cheaper price than the wholesale cost of the DNA200 board itself?

If Evolv has a valid claim and is awarded damages, vapers get fucked with less innovation because the bigger players will pull out. If Evolv loses, a talented team of engineers and designers might have to bail on an insolvent company - a company that really did set a technology trend with the DNA series of boards.

In the world of technology, you can never stand still, some other company or new technology will eclipse the previous technology in a short amount of time.
 
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5150sick

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Evolv not only holds the patent for TC but they hold the patent for Variable Power (Wattage)
 

5150sick

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Anybody have any details on the exact claims of infringement? It sounds like what Evolv may have is a methods patent, but, without details, no way to know.

You cannot patent an idea. To be patentable: An idea has to be "realized." The closest you can come to patenting an idea is a thing called a "methods patent." A methods patent presents an idea and the method by which that idea can be realized. The trick to using a methods patent to cover all ways in which an idea may be realized, thus effectively patenting the idea, itself, is to define the realization of the idea in such a manner that it essentially covers all the bases. But, if the realization of the idea is too vague, one runs the risk of the patent application being rejected, it being thrown out on a challenge, or (parts of) it infringing on other patents.

Methods patents are tricky.

Then, as with any patent, there is the question of non-obviousness. In the instant case, assuming variable wattage control is the infringement in question: Is it the very idea of using VW to control a vaping apparatus' heating element? Given that variable voltage, at least, existed in prior art, it's hard to imagine the idea of VW being anything but obvious. But that's one of patent law's trickiest minefields: Non-obviousness. It's very subjective.

N.B.: IANAL, patent or otherwise, nor do I play one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

As for Evolv: If they have a valid patent: I hope they get every penny due them. If they're simply trying to make money fast: I hope they get reamed into insolvency.


I think you may be right about the patent of an idea:


"The claimed subject matter provides a control component that regulates output of an electronic vaporizer used to simulate smoking. The control component manages power to a heating element. A power detect component collects a parameter of the heating element to determine actual power output thereof. The control component dynamically adjusts the power source based on the actual power output."



http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=Evolv&OS=Evolv&RS=Evolv
 

Chainvapor

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I gotta say. For all the people saying "Fuck Evolv" . You people realize that without Evolv you would not have variable wattage or Temp Control Right?? The bottom line is that China does not care about American patents. They do not hold water in China. I really wish Evolv the best of luck on their lawsuit against Joytech. But I believe it will never happen.

In the end, Evolv will have to figure out how to make their boards cheaper and still keep them reliable. Otherwise, they will be pushed into a very small market by the cheaper China knockoffs.
I bought an RX200 and think it is a decent mod, but I also just purchased a DNA200 Reuleaux because of the better accuracy it has in Temp Control. Say what you will, but tests have proven that the DNA200 board is unmatched in accuracy by any other board on the market at this moment.

Happy Vaping,
CV
 

The Cromwell

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Some of us have no use for Temperature Limiting or Temperature control or whatever you want to call it.
VW is handy but not essiential.

I can live fine with VV or even a straight mech.

I make my own coils and my juice but like keeping my vaping simple and uncomplicated.
I am a career electronics tech and computer programmer nerd but do not go for the gizmos and gadgets much.
 

f1r3b1rd

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I gotta say. For all the people saying "Fuck Evolv" . You people realize that without Evolv you would not have variable wattage or Temp Control Right?? The bottom line is that China does not care about American patents. They do not hold water in China. I really wish Evolv the best of luck on their lawsuit against Joytech. But I believe it will never happen.

In the end, Evolv will have to figure out how to make their boards cheaper and still keep them reliable. Otherwise, they will be pushed into a very small market by the cheaper China knockoffs.
I bought an RX200 and think it is a decent mod, but I also just purchased a DNA200 Reuleaux because of the better accuracy it has in Temp Control. Say what you will, but tests have proven that the DNA200 board is unmatched in accuracy by any other board on the market at this moment.

Happy Vaping,
CV

No one is arguing that evolve doesn't make a deadly accurate product or, that they haven't been on of the largest contributors behind some of the best innovations in vaping. Lord knows they have; and, I predicate this by saying I have been a major fan and buyer of their products since the dna30 released.

BUT, its two fold, to deal with a Chinese based company in china. Since they don't enforce Patent law like the US, it was obviously a bad business move.

Putting themselves in the position they did is another bad business move.
by that I mean, - they are suing the competition, and what you, myself or the next guy sees, is immaterial, Most hobbyist vapors, appear to see it as a bad move. - hence tarnishing their reputation. Lets not forget, the reputation, arguably is not as high as it was when the dna30 came out, that board was legendary and a huge leap forward, followed by the 40 debacle... and still traces of screen issues.

Additionally, competition breeds more innovation, to stifle competition, would mean that vaping may have indeed hit a technological plateau. At least temporarily. Proof that competition breeds innovation, one only needs to look at the timeline of temp limiting: multiple renditions of dna40s, one rendition of the sx350j and then the dna200 timeline.

personally I hope they don't because, I would love to see what they come up with next; but, it appears as though they danced with the devil and are now going for an encore.
 
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Chainvapor

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Some of us have no use for Temperature Limiting or Temperature control or whatever you want to call it.
VW is handy but not essiential.

I can live fine with VV or even a straight mech.

I make my own coils and my juice but like keeping my vaping simple and uncomplicated.
I am a career electronics tech and computer programmer nerd but do not go for the gizmos and gadgets much.

Yeah, you are correct. Sorry I overstated. I have Mech Mods that I still enjoy from time to time also. I was just making a point that most people bashing Evolv are probably using some sort of variable wattage or temperature controlled device. Without Evolv, they would not exist.

Again though, I apologize for overstating my case and generalizing.

CV
 

Chainvapor

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no one is arguing that evolve doesn't make a deadly accurate product or, that they haven't been on of the largest companies behind the innovation of v

Yes, I know that. It just seems like there is a lot of hatred towards Evolv and I do not understand why. Obviously any electronics made in the USA are going to be more expensive than the Chinese stuff. I mean you cannot employ children or pay your employees $5 a day in the USA. Just trying to understand why some posters seemed angry with Evolv for trying to sue someone for copying their product. That's all.

CV
 

f1r3b1rd

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Yes, I know that. It just seems like there is a lot of hatred towards Evolv and I do not understand why. Obviously any electronics made in the USA are going to be more expensive than the Chinese stuff. I mean you cannot employ children or pay your employees $5 a day in the USA. Just trying to understand why some posters seemed angry with Evolv for trying to sue someone for copying their product. That's all.

CV
its pretty clear why... read my edit ^
 

Chainvapor

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its pretty clear why... read my edit ^

I understand what you mean with competition. It definitely breeds innovation. On the other hand, if you invented a really cool widget and got a patent for it and someone cloned it for 1/4 of the price, wouldn't you go after them?? After spending hours and hours and thousands of dollars on R&D for someone else to just copy it and say "Here ya go" kinda makes sense why they would sue them. However, like I said in a previous post, it is highly unlikely they will win this lawsuit because the company they are suing is in China which makes a US patent a piece a toilet paper.

CV
 

The Cromwell

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if Evolve wins their lawsuit.
Chinese vape companies will remove their US offices.
Chinese mod makers will not buy any more Evolve chips.
Retailers in the USA will not be able to sell non Evolve VW devices.
Everyone will just order their VW devices from FT and such since most will not pay $300+ for an Evolve based US built mod.

The USA is only a small portion of Joyetechs market and we may ban the devices anyway.
 
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f1r3b1rd

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I understand what you mean with competition. It definitely breeds innovation. On the other hand, if you invented a really cool widget and got a patent for it and someone cloned it for 1/4 of the price, wouldn't you go after them?? After spending hours and hours and thousands of dollars on R&D for someone else to just copy it and say "Here ya go" kinda makes sense why they would sue them. However, like I said in a previous post, it is highly unlikely they will win this lawsuit because the company they are suing is in China which makes a US patent a piece a toilet paper.

CV
I would go after them- in most cases.
but lets look at this from a different angle.
Its well referenced that Brandon was making deals with china companies for the board. Its well accepted that china has cloned anything of value that they have gotten their hands on; irregardless of patent laws; because, they are both difficult to enforce, and when thy are enforced it is only a small fee compared to the profits made. - hence the cost of doing business. Hell, the kayfun4 clone was available 3 days after the authentic was released.
Hana lost their ass, in their lawsuit, they still haven't recovered.- Now, they are giving away a hana One mod if you spend 50$ on anything else. Why did people get mad at them over the lawsuit?
Because we as vapors are a subset, of a subset, of a market. Generally speaking when an entity goes to stifle another entity that people like, they are seen as the bully, and hence seen as hurting the community. Not a good idea when everyone else is out to hurt the community as well. especially, when you have slim chance at gaining anything. In this case I fear that even if they win in court, they will lose in the end.
 

5150sick

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I gotta say. For all the people saying "Fuck Evolv" . You people realize that without Evolv you would not have variable wattage or Temp Control Right?? The bottom line is that China does not care about American patents. They do not hold water in China. I really wish Evolv the best of luck on their lawsuit against Joytech. But I believe it will never happen.

In the end, Evolv will have to figure out how to make their boards cheaper and still keep them reliable. Otherwise, they will be pushed into a very small market by the cheaper China knockoffs.
I bought an RX200 and think it is a decent mod, but I also just purchased a DNA200 Reuleaux because of the better accuracy it has in Temp Control. Say what you will, but tests have proven that the DNA200 board is unmatched in accuracy by any other board on the market at this moment.

Happy Vaping,
CV

They are suing "Joytech USA" that resides in Orange County California.

Looks like they got them by the balls:



JURISDICTION AND VENUE

5.

This Court has subject matter jurisdiction over patent infringement

claims under 28 U.S.C. §§ 1331 and 1338(a) because these claims against

Defendants arise under Acts of Congress

relating to patents including, but not

limited to, 35 U.S.C. §§ 271(a)-(c),

281, 283-285, and 287(a).

6.

Venue is proper in this district under 28 U.S.C.

§§ 1391 and 1400(b).

Joyetech USA

7.

This Court has personal jurisdiction over Joyetech USA because it is

incorporated in California and conducted

business within California, conducts its

principal operations in Orange County, California, and commits acts of

infringement in violation of 35 U.S.C. §

271, by using, importing, offering to sell,

and selling electronic vaporizers to distributors and consumers, in this judicial district. Defendant Joyetech USA regularlydoes business, solicits business, and/or derives substantial revenue from products provided to retailers, all while Joyetech induces the infringing resale of knockoff products. Joyetech USA has purposefully established substantial, systematic, and continuous contacts in California and this judicial district, and expects, or should reasonably expect, to be haled into court here. Additionally, the economic harm from the wrongful acts described in this

Complaint were directed at and suffered by Evolv within this jurisdictional district.

8.

Joyetech USA has also indirectly infringed by offering to sell to third party U.S. manufacturers, within the United States, accused infringing circuit boards constituting a material part of the invention and lacking substantial non-infringing uses.

9.

Upon information and belief, Joyetech USA has also placed infringing

products containing said circuit boards into the stream of commerce throughout the

United States with the expectation that such products have been and will continue to be, offered for sale, sold, and used in this judicial district.

10.

Upon information and belief, Joyetech USA imports infringing

products into the United States from, and is the official distributor and online retailer for, Joyetech (Changzhou) Electronics Co., Ltd.,

which controls Joyetech

USA and other subsidiaries, affiliates, and related entities affiliated under the trade name, “Joyetech Group.”

11.

Upon information and belief, Joyetech USA also operates as the

distributor and retailer for Wismec Industry Co. Ltd. in the United States.

12.

Upon information and belief, the products that Joyetech USA imports,

offers to sell, sells and distributes in the United States are sold under trademarks including JOYETECH®, WISM

EC®, ELEAF®, and ISMOKA™
 

Mike O

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This is like Apple trying to sue Microsoft for making the computer. Other companies were right there with evolv from the beginning making vaping products and don't seem to be getting any credit here from the evolv worshipers. Saying we would have no TC or regulated mods without evolv, I just don't believe it. That's like saying China was nothing but dummies until evolv came along. Bullshit, whatever is thought of China, they are certainly no dummies. Some don't even realize how much tech comes out of China. Personally I think other makers tc products are better and more user friendly than evolv but that's just me. Having to go on a computer to set up TC is just not the way to go for me, ain't got the time or interest. I don't regard evolv as the holy grail of vaping and have no sympathy for them in this direction they are going. They remind me of Rambus. Also to note, seems like a lot assumption are being made to patent infringement being fact when there is no proof yet. Apple sues everyone and their brother for this and loses half of them. No facts are out yet. Maybe it's just me here but I hate lawsuits. Too damn many of them and seems to be more about greed and control than anything else so maybe I'm a bit bias in the matter. To each his own.
 
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5150sick

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Why did people get mad at them over the lawsuit?

Hana knowing they couldn't sue China went after a bunch of Mom & Pop AMERICAN vendors.
So they threw their own under the bus.

Evolv has found a very slick way to sue a CHINA vendor on American soil.

Evolv isn't sending seize and desists then suing "Farmer johns vape store" into bankruptcy like Hana did.

Big difference.

READ the lawsuit guys: https://search.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/11891651
 

Jim_MDP

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I look at it this way, Brandon gave China the design(s) so he could make the boards cheaper and gain more profit, plus probably licensing the patent to a number of companies. China took the design, made changes and then started to pump out the RX200 and related boards/mods while making the DNA200 for Evolv and making mods using the DNA200 board, selling then wholesale back to distributors here in the USA.

I don't believe JT/Wismec is making the DNA boards nor has the specs/designs.
I believe Evolv makes and ships the boards to them, just like every other licensee.

JT decided to make a comparably powered board, minus the Evolve code and package it in a closely matched Wismec/JayBo Reuleaux enclosure.

Thus, according to Evolve... "confusing customers and taking value from the Evolve/DNA brand and profits from Evolve" (paraphrased).

Well... I wasn't confused about the differences, and I still haven't ordered a DNA.
The market demographics are vastly different for the two.
Though I'm now infinitely more aware of DNAs and their capabilities, and very likely might still get one in the future, all thanks to the RX.

Evolve should be thanking JTech. :rolleyes:
 

AndriaD

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Some of us have no use for Temperature Limiting or Temperature control or whatever you want to call it.
VW is handy but not essiential.

I can live fine with VV or even a straight mech.

I make my own coils and my juice but like keeping my vaping simple and uncomplicated.
I am a career electronics tech and computer programmer nerd but do not go for the gizmos and gadgets much.

Like you, I have no use whatever for TC. I do insist on a regulated mod, so that the last hit of a battery's charge is as good as the first, and the first won't blow my head off; I prefer variable wattage, it's just easier, but I could do fine with variable voltage if I had to; I grok the necessary math to figure out the proper v setting based on my resistance to achieve the wattage I prefer. And I'm lazy and really mathematically inept, but there's always Steam Engine. ;)

Andria
 

rolltidevaper

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I will keep this brief. I don't think it's going to matter what happens with the suit, Evolv had damaged themselves and their reputation. I can't see any way for them to come out ahead on this one! Sad for them! Way to many contradictions in the suit! Bottom line, we, the vaping community don't need this!
 

lordmage

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No one is arguing that evolve doesn't make a deadly accurate product or, that they haven't been on of the largest contributors behind some of the best innovations in vaping. Lord knows they have; and, I predicate this by saying I have been a major fan and buyer of their products since the dna30 released.

BUT, its two fold, to deal with a Chinese based company in china. Since they don't enforce Patent law like the US, it was obviously a bad business move.

Putting themselves in the position they did is another bad business move.
by that I mean, - they are suing the competition, and what you, myself or the next guy sees, is immaterial, Most hobbyist vapors, appear to see it as a bad move. - hence tarnishing their reputation. Lets not forget, the reputation, arguably is not as high as it was when the dna30 came out, that board was legendary and a huge leap forward, followed by the 40 debacle... and still traces of screen issues.

Additionally, competition breeds more innovation, to stifle competition, would mean that vaping may have indeed hit a technological plateau. At least temporarily. Proof that competition breeds innovation, one only needs to look at the timeline of temp limiting: multiple renditions of dna40s, one rendition of the sx350j and then the dna200 timeline.

personally I hope they don't because, I would love to see what they come up with next; but, it appears as though they danced with the devil and are now going for an encore.
i just had to Bird
Yes i do i have been vaping way before most americans back before the pyramid tea bags, when the best thing around was the 3 or 4 piece systems and there were a f ton of different connections
 

Visus

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The patent encompasses all venues of regulated mod making whether it is defines as wattage, current, voltage. Basically they did a huge market cornering before anyone else had the idea or the knowledge to write a patent. Patents cost upwards of $25k to write and process, so they basically cornered all venues of variation in making a variable "vaping" mod and can if this patent holds its weight go after any company...
 

Visus

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Lol it wouldn't surprise me if Joyetech isn't in bed with them checking the legitimacy of the patent per se rfol :confused:... Joyetech raped us all over the coals with the ego mods costing over a hundred bucks when 1st released. Now we know each ego cost less than 50 cents to make... If they win this case it will open the floodgates and any company not securing an Evolv release is addressable in litigation.. Freaking brilliant, hardcore, hard as nails, big boy pants biznuss.

Evolv :p :D
Everybody else :eek::(
 

MC5

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Although I realize VW provides some convenience, seems everybody is trying to cash in excessively
Kombi-Food-Truck-13.jpg


I'm just fine with voltage.
 

vuJim

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They are suing "Joytech USA" that resides in Orange County California.

Looks like they got them by the balls:
Perhaps, but you're certainly familiar with the term "pyrrhic victory," right?

And they might not, in any event. All Joyetech, et al, need to do is demonstrate prior art. It seems to me unlikely in the extreme that nobody has ever implemented wattage control of a heating element or temperature control of a heating element by tracking resistance changes. So the question then becomes, as I stated earlier, as to whether such prior art makes applying the same principles to an e-cigarette's atomizer's heating coil obvious enough to invalidate the patent(s).

Then there's this: I read somewhere that Joyetech (?) eventually acknowledged they owed Evolv compensation for using Evov's patented technology, and asked about licensing terms. Allegedly, Evolv's reply was "No licensing. You must buy our boards." This brings us to a patent/licensing concept known as "FRAND": Fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory licensing terms. The concept there being that patenting new technology is a double-edged sword: The granting of patents encourages investment in R&D, but "unreasonable" licensing of the resulting technology discourages competition. IP courts don't operate in a vacuum. They may well look at Evolv's claims and tell them they're obliged to offer "reasonable" licensing terms to their competitors.
 

f1r3b1rd

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Hana knowing they couldn't sue China went after a bunch of Mom & Pop AMERICAN vendors.
So they threw their own under the bus.


Evolv has found a very slick way to sue a CHINA vendor on American soil.

Evolv isn't sending seize and desists then suing "Farmer johns vape store" into bankruptcy like Hana did.

Big difference.

READ the lawsuit guys: https://search.rpxcorp.com/litigation_documents/11891651
well. I stand corrected on that point. I apologize, i should have read the brief better.
However, being that im a self confessed evolve fanboy and didn't even catch it coupled with the response from most, i'm not so sure that is going to help mitigate the way its seen though in the minds of many.
either way, the outcome will be interesting
 

5150sick

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well. I stand corrected on that point. I apologize, i should have read the brief better.
However, being that im a self confessed evolve fanboy and didn't even catch it coupled with the response from most, i'm not so sure that is going to help mitigate the way its seen though in the minds of many.
either way, the outcome will be interesting

I am very interested in the outcome as well. i think evolv struck a deal with yihi because
1) They toured the YiHi facility. twice
2) No one who uses yihi chip's was mentioned in the lawsuit.

what do you guys think?
 
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ckone180

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i am very interested in the outcome as well. i think evolv struck a deal with yihi because 1) he toured their facility. twice
2) no one who uses yihi chip's was mentioned in the lawsuit.

what do you guys think?
There is a chance Yihi paid for licensing rights, as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JERUS

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i am very interested in the outcome as well. i think evolv struck a deal with yihi because 1) he toured their facility. twice
2) no one who uses yihi chip's was mentioned in the lawsuit.

what do you guys think?
Maybe just didn't feel like paying to hit 2 different situations, win one then move on to the other? Also I imagine the RX200 vs DNA Reuleux is a kind of kick in the nuts they consider worth fighting.
 

VaporJoe

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I think they should just open a new company called XYZ China company... pay Evolv a royalty and make a new chip... not that hard to do.. All this suing does nothing.. If they win, Joyetech will just declare bankruptcy.. Evolv gets nothing... and a new china company will be made.
 

5150sick

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Joyetech has to be a decent size company by now.
They spent 3 years selling us 25 cent 650mah ego batteries for $60 a pair.
 

The Cromwell

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I think they should just open a new company called XYZ China company... pay Evolv a royalty and make a new chip... not that hard to do.. All this suing does nothing.. If they win, Joyetech will just declare bankruptcy.. Evolv gets nothing... and a new china company will be made.
the American based Joyetech is a seperate corporate entity from the China parent company.
the US entity may declare bankruptcy but Joytech is massive compared to Evolve.
Joyetech is the largest ecig company/conglomerate in the world.
 
The suit as I understand it is not over the use of VW, but instead over the use of sampling the output voltage and regulating the output of the device thousands of times a second based on that sample. Thus giveng a smoother more consistent hit. They likely will win. And yes i am a fanboy.

As for bankruptcy I don't think its as simple as some of you may think. Bankruptcy has to go thru a court process where assets are liquidated and debts are paid at the judges discretion.

Its not as simple as filing and all goes away.

And I think this may be more about setting a precedent more so then getting rich. Evolv has their niche its not like they're a tiny start up. Allot of vapers that Dont buy a mod every 2 days and instead want one really good mod they can use.

Evolv has constantly innovated and brought new tech forward as it applies to vaping. And although I Dont agree with everything that applies to patent law, without it we wouldn't see the innovation many of us enjoy.
 
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5150sick

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Since this is a California case aren't they both considered "tobacco companies" now?
Doesn't California hate tobacco companies?
That could play a major role if a judge has clouded judgment over a "tobacco" issue.
 

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...And I think this may be more about setting a precedent more so then getting rich. Evolv has their niche its not like they're a tiny start up. Allot of vapers that Dont buy a mod every 2 days and instead want one really good mod they can use. .

AMEN! Ditto! :)

Where would I find a declarative statement direct from Brandon or John which clearly says that Evolv released all the code/specs for their boards so they could be manufactured in China?
 
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OneBadWolf

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I have both chips, the RX, and the DNA. I did an autopsy on the RX. http://vapingunderground.com/posts/873175/

The two boards are dissimilar other than the dual power converters. Hardly a clone. The RX chip is no more a clone than a Smok, or Yihi, and Evolve knows it.

I believe that Evolve is activley patent trolling, and attempting to use the thin edge of the wedge that they have by configuring the DNA200 for "research purposes" to leverage and postion themselves as an FDA approved device. Disgusting.

They have priced themselves out of the market, and are crying to the courts.

As I wrote in the RX thread...

So..... Evolve. Still holding out for $80 for the chip alone?

At these prices, its only a matter of time before some hardcore bad ass uber geeks from hell, reverse engineer the firmware, and write a command interperter to intergrate the RX with Lightscribe.

I'm talking about men who will never experience female companionship, or sunlight, or emerge from their parents basements for any extended periods of time. The mad monks of microchip mayhem. They dream in binary, and could solder surface mount components before they could ride bicycles. OK, they will never ride bicycles, but Evolve, take heed...... Your pricing model realy needs to...... um...... Evolve.


Well, it has happened.

http://daisychainvaper.com/wismec-rx200-cool-new-geometric-font/

rxdisp-jpg.43461


Hanna, Hyon and now Evolve. I wonder who Evolve pays royalties to for the 510 connector?

Butthurtius Maximus.
 
I hardly think 1-200$ for a mod is "pricing yourself out if the market ". I own 7-8 evelv products so apparently I'm rich in ny one bedroom apt.

Any point is just because some Chinese vendor is willing to sell things at 59 cents above cost doesn't mean the alternative american made product automatically becomes overpriced.

I got a dna200 jaybo for 140$ that's not exactly expensive these days.
 
Only 3X the price of the RX. Your point is?
Point is you can buy a Casio for 1/500 the price of a Rolex. One is nicer, works smoother, and perfect in every way.

One is a Casio.

An RX is one fourth the mod for one third the price.

I own both RX sits on the shelf after I got the dna200 version.


Allow me to outline the difference for you and all the other reviewers on YouTube out there that keep repeating this as gospel
Here we go: faster response when firing, higher quality USB port, softer touch on buttons, smoother hit (by a tiny margin I will admit) waaaay more accurate temp control, better 510, nicer screen, and finally a software interface that allows customizations of vape profiles, preheat punch, screen layouts, tests on batteries, and firmware updates a plenty.

Was that a huge block of text? That's because there is a big difference.

And let me say that the RX is an amazing budget mod. Its rips and battery life is great. Good freaking mod NOT A DNA!
 
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