Chainvapor I agree with you. I am friends with a upstart mod company. If people look at materials alone for a mod they freak out thinking that is all it takes to make a mod. But the only way to make a "cheap" mod in America is either to contract a factory that already has the equipment and pay them to manufacture or to outsource the work. But once you get into the area of time spent designing building advertising and then finally selling the mod no one really makes any money at first. That is why most original authentic mods are in the 180+ range for mechs and in the 250+ range for the better regulated mods. It sucks but unless you are doing low quality or something stupidly simple authentic mods will never be cheap. The only thing that hurts us are the elite who think they are better than everyone else
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r2beat
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Tell me how BCV sells XXIX for $150 or sell? All the other american mod makers tell us copper is more expensive and that's why copper mods are more expensive.
The XXIX is a full copper mod manufactured in the US.
American mod makers have started to use their brains. Authentic mods are coming out at below $180 and it's not the perfect price but it's getting better.
There's going to be authentic american regulated mods under 200 by the end of this year.
Don't get me wrong, I support american made but prices are ridonkulous. I have 3 usa ohm meters and I just bought another xxix from bcv themselves for $130. Just go to their site and go to spare parts and you can order the switch tube and top cap. They sell ones with small scratches for cheaper. You cant even see the scratch unless you get a microscope.
I agree R2beat. Prices are crazy. What a few people do is try to recoup all start up cost on 5 he first limited run of a mod and you can't do that. And as far as BCV I think they figured out a good middle ground on price to profit ratio. Also cost depends on hand turning to cnc and a lot of factors like that.
r2beat
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Yeah I agree with you. I just don't like the fact that they're ripping off the consumers. If you're starting a company don't try to recoup your costs right away. Think about the future and get a larger customer base and sell more of the product at a lower price. Plus the reason "elitist" are made is because of limited runs. WHY THE EXCLUSIVITY? Everybody should be able to have nice pretty things at reasonable costs.
"Exclusivity" allows the mod to be sold at higher prices with 100% turnover rate. If you like, then buy it. if you don't like, buy something else. The market ultimately determines if an engraved battery tube is worth $200, and by the looks of things, still seems that way to an extent, although you could say that many mechanical mod prices have come down a little bit recently.
The desire for everyone to have the ability to own nice pretty things at reasonable costs has been tried throughout history, but looking back, that has never really worked very well
The desire for everyone to have the ability to own nice pretty things at reasonable costs has been tried throughout history, but looking back, that has never really worked very well
Hartoled
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There is a respectable market for really nice pretty expensive things. But the market for cheap copies of really nice pretty expensive things is frickin' HUGE! Seems like a savvy guy would make a really nice pretty expensive thing, do some in-house artwork, and let social media, vape porn sites, and You Tube reviewers do what they do, as he sold out the first hundred or two. Once that demand was established, move fast, clone yourself, crank up the outsourcing, and get rich. Seems to me that some bankers could see wisdom in backing such ventures with a few relatively good Powerpoint presentations to show them the reality of how things are working now.
Give the original purchasers something special to brag about...Serial number selection, first dibs on new designs, autographs, a tool kit, fuzzy dice, whatever. They would still possess the American, European, Philippine, ect. made items. Customers have already given plenty of arguments for why they don't feel like they are getting ripped off paying more in the first place. IDK...Would you feel ripped off if you knew that somebody was doing that? (Not to say that they would necessarily have to reveal that they were doing that.) Would it be unethical? A lot of the arguments from both sides of the question would still apply but, arguably, it would be a win, win, win proposition.
Those Asian distributors have to find funding to get the clones made now. I doubt that the factories care much who is writing the checks. Time to do some end runs around the competition.
I've taken chances recently on clone makers who nobody seems to have heard of before and been pleasantly surprised. I wonder if some American or Brit is behind them?
The more ridiculously expensive the originals were, probably, the hotter the fire would be to get the clones.
Give the original purchasers something special to brag about...Serial number selection, first dibs on new designs, autographs, a tool kit, fuzzy dice, whatever. They would still possess the American, European, Philippine, ect. made items. Customers have already given plenty of arguments for why they don't feel like they are getting ripped off paying more in the first place. IDK...Would you feel ripped off if you knew that somebody was doing that? (Not to say that they would necessarily have to reveal that they were doing that.) Would it be unethical? A lot of the arguments from both sides of the question would still apply but, arguably, it would be a win, win, win proposition.
Those Asian distributors have to find funding to get the clones made now. I doubt that the factories care much who is writing the checks. Time to do some end runs around the competition.
I've taken chances recently on clone makers who nobody seems to have heard of before and been pleasantly surprised. I wonder if some American or Brit is behind them?
The more ridiculously expensive the originals were, probably, the hotter the fire would be to get the clones.
r2beat
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Beyond vape just straight up offshores their manufacturing to china now. I'm sure the qc of beyond vape is better than some of the lower end clones out there though. And what you were saying about the original maker cloning themselves, if they made 1:1 clones their original fan base would feel ripped off. I like that signature idea though. Funny how some ideas brought up in forums have better business sense than most mod companies out there.
BabyFartsMcGeezax
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Sorry...not in a reading mood.lol
How about a kick I want to use?
How about a kick I want to use?
Uber300
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@r2beat .... You can't seem to come up with an original idea or add anything authentic to this thread other than calling people names, unless they agree with what you, or rewriting, in your own words, what other people have already said. It's not even about what Joe started the whole damn thread for, see ya lil bitch
Just did a quick search and cheapest XXIX I found was $180 and then I found it elsewhere for $229.00. Where did you see this mod for $150 r2beat??
CV
You all check VAPORDNA.COM they have most of the USA made MOD and atty realllll reasonable price, I do buy clones especially my 26650, because the legit ones doesn't fit my taste, I bought a CARTEL MODS by infinite,THE BOSS FROM ORIGIN VAPE AND A MUTATION XL FROM VAPORDNA... its true,the chinese killed the Americans when it comes to VW but I'm pretty sure USA will rise up to the occasions...
USA USA USA USA
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USA USA USA USA
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Jackson
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I always find comments like this interesting about YiHi one upping or making a 'better' chip than Evolv.
One of the biggest complaints about the DNA20 was always that the price was too high. Responding to customer feedback Evolv built the DNA30 while shooting for the same price, ~$50. Then YiHi makes a 'better' China chip that sells for 50% more.
Uber300
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The YiHi chips are hybrid chipsets. Evolv chips boost voltage (regulate voltage upwards), Raptor/OKR10 chips buck (regulate voltage downward). The YiHi supposedly does both. If that is what they do, and if they do it well, then YiHi chips should sub-ohm better than any chipset available. I currently have no YiHi devices, but I will have one soon in a box mod build I have planned. I don't care who makes the chips, the best performing chip is where I will put my money.
and that's how it should be. The best performance is what will get my money.
Lefty
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Only one YIHI chip is buck/boost, the SX350.
Lefty
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Glad to see some mods using the SX350, most are using the SX330. This one actually uses an 18650 without a tube extending past the body it looks like.
Rudebwoy
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Any info on a release date or more pics of this mod its a authentic right?
tooitchy
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This again? We're taking about dna boxes, not mechs, these are boxes you can buy for ten dollars requiring little more than a1''oval cut out for the screen and a 510 connector. The chip is $40 retail, much cheaper in bulk as these mod makers purchase them, a soldering job a 13 year old could do, and you're good to go, you do not need any big machines to produce dna boxes, and there is no actual engineering involved, these boxes coast less than $100 each to make in your living room at full retail prices, so you cannot convince me $250-$300 is not price gouging to an extreme level.I feel like I am beating a dead horse with the ignorance shown in the attached post but here it goes. There is not 1 mod out there made in America that is making 300% profit. If you do not know what it costs to make a mod in America, you should probably keep your mouth shut. Buy a few $60,000+ machines, grab a few good machinists at a minimum of $16 per hour. Hire an engineer to design and layout your new mod at $25 per hour minimum and then come back and tell us what you are going to sell your mod for..................I work in the industry and I know the costs. Nobody is trying to rip you off in America, but we cannot pay our employees $5 per day like they can in China.
By the way - After your 4th or 5th $100 China mod dies and your friend with the $300 DNA mod is still using his, you may reconsider what value really is.
Sorry for the rant everyone, but I have built mods. I buy mostly clones, so I am all for cheaper alternatives. Just quit making it sound like the American companies are trying to rip you off. If you do not want to pay the high price for Authentic mods..........Then DON'T. But quit making it sound like the ones designing the best mods on the market are evil. If they were not around your China would not have anything to clone.
CV
P.S. I for one look forward to Evolv's newest board, I am sure it will be EPIC!
And for the record, I've spent $500 on American dna mods, they are both dead from terrible quality, one has a fried chip from bad soldering (hana) the other had a battery that was no longer functional after just one month (vaporshark). China box is still going strong after heavy, daily use for many months. China box also cost a whopping $60.
Also, about this american "quality", break open a Hana to the wiring, do the same to a Cana and put them side by side, I bet you couldn't tell which is which based solely on the appearance of the chip and the internal quality.
Don't even look up the vaporshark internal shots, it's terrifying.
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tooitchy
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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.[/QUOTE]I could yeah, your VS is wired better than mine was though, mine was a total mess, I'll try to remember to get some pictures when I go home next week.
tooitchy
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Guess I got a bad one then, the soldering was loose in the connections, it was also in huge globs, hot glue was also all over the place like in the hana/cana mods. Guess I should amend my post to say MINE was terrifying :-/
Uber300
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I own a Vapor Shark, and it no longer works. A mere 4 months after my purchase, I had to send it to them to be fixed, the board had stopped responding. They have great customer service, it was fixed and promptly sent back. Well, about a month later, I had a TAIFUN GS sitting on it, leaking into the 510 connection. Granted. that was my fault, but for as much as it cost, the 510 should be sealed at least. I opened the box to fight the horror of wires that is a Vapor Shark. The DNA30 was swimming in ejuice. I cleaned it out, put it back together and it stopped working about a day later. Highly disappointed in the design!
I fail to understand anyone saying Evolv is high priced, their dna30 is 50 bucks their dna20 is now 24 bucks, wheres this inflated pricing I keep reading about. Evolv is not provari. They make affordable chipsets for modders and companies, its vending companies who inflate with an enclosure,and non needed but added on buttons, very minute wiring, and a logo.
laurie9300
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The XPV is also beautiful inside..........no glue.......
Uber300
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I own several Evolv DNA30 Designs, A ZNA, my favorite. Just got my Cloupor today. Have been gaping on it all day. I bought it because I have a tendency to be very clumsy, so I figure if i drop it in the toilet, I have done this.....I will not have lost much money. I have to say I am highly impressed so far. It's a V3, I have heard some complain that once it goes to sleep you have to click the fire button then wait a few seconds then click it again to fire. Mine fires right out of sleep mode. hummmmm...........
Cannot wait for this new dna, "it is revolutionary," words from the biggest teaching hobby modders who are beta testing it. They say it changes the game.. They did it thee times now 4 is a charm, awesome...
Hartoled
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I think that somewhere along the line Evolv made a judgment about whether or not to support sub ohming. Doesn't matter. China doesn't care about much more than what people want. Sony making the same kind of call about 30 amp batteries...NO PROBLEM...China doesn't care. The U.S. doesn't want to bother with the Moon? From what I heard, China doesn't care. If we won't exploit it they will gladly figure out a way to use our tech to get at those rare earths up there. Keep saying that stuff is too "much" or too "costly" and they will keep finding cheap ways to prove us wrong.
If what Joe alluded to....that, possibly, Evolv is interested in the dry herb sector, it might be a good move for them. Evolv is a small company and it may be a few years before herbs catch up to vaping. Also, since when did stoners care what they paid for stuff? In fact, considering what goes into the production of essences and flavorings for E-Liquids, the stuff that is most popular with those guys should probably be cheaper than 79 cent internet Dakang juice. The wisdom of suppressing that market is another debate but better if none of that style of regulation gets on us.
If what Joe alluded to....that, possibly, Evolv is interested in the dry herb sector, it might be a good move for them. Evolv is a small company and it may be a few years before herbs catch up to vaping. Also, since when did stoners care what they paid for stuff? In fact, considering what goes into the production of essences and flavorings for E-Liquids, the stuff that is most popular with those guys should probably be cheaper than 79 cent internet Dakang juice. The wisdom of suppressing that market is another debate but better if none of that style of regulation gets on us.
Uber300
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BabyFartsMcGeezax
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Yep... the sx330 versions do one or the other, not both.
Honestly, who gives a fuck. If you think you can perceive differences in DC-DC, lol..is all I have to say in response to that. All we are doing is using heating resistors/resistance wire.. I won't trust clouper... until the anomalies of flaming mods (not a homophobic jab) are narrowed down, but the sx350 isn't the only chip available for modding from yihi.. and after p4u kept cashing in on their beta-like boxes, you can get a solid mod from them..
..my IPV2 was almost perfect, but I have so many issues now because of the half-assed box and 510 they sent as a final product..at least the chip is good..I wonder if I could redo the battery cradle to fit two in parallel in the current box...make a cover that won't allow liquid to flood into it like the curb-drain type lip I have...
smileLefty
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I certainly don't. It was a simple factual statement. Only you know how the rest somehow derived from that.Yep... the sx330 versions do one or the other, not both.
Honestly, who gives a fuck. If you think you can perceive differences in DC-DC, lol..is all I have to say in response to that. All we are doing is using heating resistors/resistance wire.. I won't trust clouper... until the anomalies of flaming mods (not a homophobic jab) are narrowed down, but the sx350 isn't the only chip available for modding from yihi.. and after p4u kept cashing in on their beta-like boxes, you can get a solid mod from them..
..my IPV2 was almost perfect, but I have so many issues now because of the half-assed box and 510 they sent as a final product..at least the chip is good..I wonder if I could redo the battery cradle to fit two in parallel in the current box...make a cover that won't allow liquid to flood into it like the curb-drain type lip I have...
BabyFartsMcGeezax
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Hey..I just quoted you...not directed at you. I don't get the argument of chips..unless you're making money off them, you shouldn't care what direction a modder/or chinese monster goes for chips..as long as it's accurate, and won't explode/catch on fire.
I feel like I piss a lot of people off on forums like that..lol. but yeah..I don't remember you crying on how efficient a dna 30 regulator is...soedit- that other forum, this one guy will argue to death about how dna chips are superior. Who gives a fuck?-again..we're not sending men to mars..we're vaping..it's basically the voltage drop with mech argument. Yeah, nano/micro volts- who cares? Some do apparently..lol.
"Yeah bro, I got my ara oros setup with a 0.1 dual coil with a efest 20 Amp.." ..that's at least half of that group of people caught up in those numbers.
I feel like I piss a lot of people off on forums like that..lol. but yeah..I don't remember you crying on how efficient a dna 30 regulator is...so
edit- that other forum, this one guy will argue to death about how dna chips are superior. Who gives a fuck?-again..we're not sending men to mars..we're vaping..it's basically the voltage drop with mech argument. Yeah, nano/micro volts- who cares? Some do apparently..lol."Yeah bro, I got my ara oros setup with a 0.1 dual coil with a efest 20 Amp.." ..that's at least half of that group of people caught up in those numbers.
Just finished watching Phils interview and I think this board is a great idea. I don't think its a gimmick. Separating temperature from wattage is a great feature. Now you have flavor control and vapor control that you can control independently. Also seems like a big win toward an indisputable argument for vaping safety. Not sure exactly what performance will be like with this nickel wire so I'm not sure if 40W would be underpowered or not. I don't really ever go over 40W on my iPV2 at 1.3Ohms kanthal. I also see some new opportunities for wicking materials. Apparently the flash point of cotton is 410 degrees and the boiling point of VG is 554. I don't really see how that works but I like that we are figuring out and controlling the variables. I don't know how long it will take China to catch up with this feature but I could see dropping $60 on a board and building my first box to get this at a reasonable price.
I'm interested then in seeing the results of the readout vs a temp probe.
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Hartoled
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The temperature here dropped a few degrees the last few days. I had to redo the builds on about half of my atties. They were just too hot for the cold-thickened VG to wick fast enough, forcing me to lower the wattage a lot. I put in kinder gentler coils that ramp up more slowly and allow the juice in the tanks, dripwells and the atties themselves to come up to operating temperature. The actual final coil temperature is a lot less important than the airflow and the state of the juice, for me, since I am pulsing, and taking short hits, and gradually stepping up the power.
Genesis tanks are the worst, I think. The heat doesn't get down there very quickly and they are fighting gravity from the start. I keep them sitting by the exhaust vent of my PC so that they stay warm. The standard deck on a Squape R works fine with cotton in warm weather but it's a touchy SOB when it gets cooler. The lightness of construction takes a long time to heat the juice up for some reason. Might be that coating. Got to hand it to the Kayfuns for not being too grouchy about getting put to work quickly. Even a Zenith at the usual settings or a Protank on an Ego can give you the nasty mouth if you don't take the time for a little foreplay. Thank goodness for VV\VW mods.
Genesis tanks are the worst, I think. The heat doesn't get down there very quickly and they are fighting gravity from the start. I keep them sitting by the exhaust vent of my PC so that they stay warm. The standard deck on a Squape R works fine with cotton in warm weather but it's a touchy SOB when it gets cooler. The lightness of construction takes a long time to heat the juice up for some reason. Might be that coating. Got to hand it to the Kayfuns for not being too grouchy about getting put to work quickly. Even a Zenith at the usual settings or a Protank on an Ego can give you the nasty mouth if you don't take the time for a little foreplay. Thank goodness for VV\VW mods.