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I must preach the gospel of PWM to the masses.
- Thread starter Mikhail Naumov
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Well, let me put it this way... Wismec DNA 200 (3-18650) verses Lavabox DNA 200 (1,300 mAh LiPo). Lavabox is smaller form factor and seems to last longer on the exact same atomizer. So, I conclude through personal use a 1,300 mAh 3S LiPo has the advantage over 3 2,500 mAh Samsung 25R5 18650s. Additionally the LiPo cell(s) has a higher constant current rating.
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Lipo cells Begin shinning at 2250 mAh and 2800 mAh......
Take a 2800mah 100c 3s....
2800÷1000=2.80 Now multiply by 100c= 28amps
This means you can fire that mod safely at 30amps..... and even more !!!!
And most pwm mods the amperage limit is 60amps....... Lipos help a pwm mod because the battery is pulsing at 12.6volts no matter what power you are using on the potentiometer...... That's why there is no lag, compared to most regulated mods..
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I saw one go off on a granite countertop.... It bounced against a TV, flew over a laptop, rolled 15 feet over a carpet and landed in a corner where she melted a hole through drywall......
The TV and laptop, the desk, a book shelve, where melted through like acid from an alien, you know that green alien acid...... Everythig that lipo touched it melted.....
The guy had almost $30,000 in damages......
Put it in a fire bag..... It's a simple precaution !!!!!!!!!
The fire bags are rated to wistand 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit...
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Your choice $20 or $30,000 and it's funny how people think ...
Aaaah that will not happen to me......
We have a rule in our residence, we do not charge anything when we are not home, or in our sleep..... Never !!!! Ever .......
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Mikhail Naumov
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Lipo's have a widely variable sizing, meaning they can be taken pretty much any place a manufacturer wants at a much cheaper price than lithium tubes with set diameters. Lithium polymer batteries also typically have a superior efficiency overall. They also have far less battery sag under heavy loads and they typically can take a substantially higher amperage load than any lithium ion cell on a mass-to-mass comparison.
Lipo's have less internal electron impedance, overall higher power efficiency and far less restrictions in manufacturing. Because of this, they are the current power house of the portable battery market. They may look big, but when you compare weights, lipo's are no heavier than most lithium ion cells, some are lighter. This is what matters in terms of performance comparison, not external diameters. A single lipo cell is going to be FAR lighter than most lithium ion batteries in most cases, yet it out performs it by a mile.
LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries are a nice alternative to LiPo's/LiCo's, but I prefer LiPo's/LiCo's to LiFePO4's, NiMH's and Li-Ion's.
Lipo's have less internal electron impedance, overall higher power efficiency and far less restrictions in manufacturing. Because of this, they are the current power house of the portable battery market. They may look big, but when you compare weights, lipo's are no heavier than most lithium ion cells, some are lighter. This is what matters in terms of performance comparison, not external diameters. A single lipo cell is going to be FAR lighter than most lithium ion batteries in most cases, yet it out performs it by a mile.
LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries are a nice alternative to LiPo's/LiCo's, but I prefer LiPo's/LiCo's to LiFePO4's, NiMH's and Li-Ion's.
I can definitely tell the difference in performance between a 3s Lipo and (4)18650 lithium ion cells..... a 950mah Lipo performs good in a squonker but after a couple of hours it's a donner.....
I started seeing a difference at 3s 1850mah..... At 2250mah 3s 100c it becomes a new ball game, the quick response due to pulling amperage makes a difference, but ohms law and coils make also a difference ....
I noticed today that using a .21 ohm coil I was able to use the entire power band on voltage potentiometer..... but that's pushing maybe 25 amps..... The lower you push the ohms the higher the amp pull.....
I couldn't imagine a 4s or a 6s at 18volts or more...... My god...
It's fun screwing around with the NLpwm it has good options, the power consumption for remaining battery voltage is hard to decipher, but I'm getting to know how the cells drop in voltage....can't wait to try the Big Al's.....
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That's another thing the battery sag..... There is none !!!!! ..... Hits the same until depletion........
That's a danger point..... If you deplete the cells to a significant low ... You damage the Lipo...........
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ok so let me see if i understand the lipo vs 18650
1. lipos are lighter in weight
2. lipos can take up less room
3. lipos can provide more amperage and there fore be safer to use on lower builds
4. lipos are more efficient
if that is the case i sort of see why some would prefer a lipo battery
but is there any difference in the way the vape feels? I dont imagine there is but since I have never used one I feel I should at least ask the question
1. lipos are lighter in weight
2. lipos can take up less room
3. lipos can provide more amperage and there fore be safer to use on lower builds
4. lipos are more efficient
if that is the case i sort of see why some would prefer a lipo battery
but is there any difference in the way the vape feels? I dont imagine there is but since I have never used one I feel I should at least ask the question
Mikhail Naumov
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I mean, vapor is vapor. Power is power. Wattage is wattage. Obviously PWM is a different kind of vape and it differs there, but the main benefit of lipos is that I can take lipo mods up to 3,500W if I want, no 18650, 26650 or 20700 mod is going to even get close to that.
When a pwm pulses the power I can notice way thicker clouds..... I mean like running water thick coming out..... This mean flavor.... Try talking you can barely speak the clouds are so thick......
With a regulated mod is just a cloudy smoke feeling.... Not the running river.... feeling.... It's weird, but yes it's a different vape......
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It's because PWM is pulsing the full battery voltage cycle, it's not bucking the voltage down. So even at low power settings, up to 50-500W can be hitting the coil for split microsecond intervals. That's the biggest con of PWM, is that things like a 15W coil have the potential to be ROASTED by a full power spike.
With the Mlpwm I had (1) power spike where I got like a strong 200 watt hit......... But you notice it right away..... Yes..... Ha........
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NLPwm.... I pushed the button and felt a powerful kick.... Let go tried again and everything was good the next vape......
I didn't wake her up was the problem, I think it went into a stand by mode, or something and simply picked it up after sitting for an hour, and just pushed the button.....
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Mikhail Naumov
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I find Big Al's iPWM to be vastly superior to the NLPWM in terms of construction, pricing and overall performance. The NLPWM has a digital pot, the Big Al's uses an analog dial pot. Other than that, one is just WAY more expensive than the other. Big Al is also an electrical engineer with like 20+ years experience. The guy at Voltrove isn't.
The NLPWM seems to be aimed at modders with minimal experience / confidence and on top of that have little PWM knowledge / experience. It's super easy to wire up and mount AND super easy to use. The Big Al's iPWM is a bit more advanced. The iPWM has 8 wire ups with the pot attached, 10 without it. The NLPWM only has three on the board directly. The iPWM is also positive channel (VASTLY superior IMO) where-as the NLPWM I believe now is negative channel.
The NLPWM seems to be aimed at modders with minimal experience / confidence and on top of that have little PWM knowledge / experience. It's super easy to wire up and mount AND super easy to use. The Big Al's iPWM is a bit more advanced. The iPWM has 8 wire ups with the pot attached, 10 without it. The NLPWM only has three on the board directly. The iPWM is also positive channel (VASTLY superior IMO) where-as the NLPWM I believe now is negative channel.
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As much as I love Big Al (Frances/John) and his products, his volt meters.. I don't know. I've had two show up as flat out duds, and several more have the bottom most part of the LED on the meter just spontaneously go out. His boards are great, his volt meters.. kind of suck. Wish I would've known that earlier.
To any of my customers with a blue or red volt meter, should it ever fuck up, I will fix it for free OR send you a new meter as self-replacement is a simple snip, wire splice, solder, heat shrink job that takes five minutes. Up to the customer obviously. One is faster, one is a guaranteed fix.
Thank god my newest batch is from Brimstone 3D.
To any of my customers with a blue or red volt meter, should it ever fuck up, I will fix it for free OR send you a new meter as self-replacement is a simple snip, wire splice, solder, heat shrink job that takes five minutes. Up to the customer obviously. One is faster, one is a guaranteed fix.
Thank god my newest batch is from Brimstone 3D.
What type of meter do I have ????
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I was told the board is Voltrove and the mod PCB is Mark Mathis and Jeff Hankerat.......
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Mikhail Naumov
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The NLPWM board has a volt meter included on it, so I wouldn't worry. I'm not sure what kind of meter he uses, I just really dislike that he has it fully soldered onto the board which means I can't use the NLPWM with a 1590N1 with the volt meter slot already cut as it's horizontal and the NLPWM has it vertical. So with an NLPWM in an N1 I have to manually drill and file out the volt meter slot which takes way too much fucking time and isn't anywhere near as clean as the CNC factory job that has it pre-cut.
I just thought I'd blown it up.... It started blinking at 9.8v and showing bat. And it shut itself down.......
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That is probably the low voltage cutoff keeping you from draining it too low. 9.3-9.8V is usually the cutoff area for a 3S.
Why On earth would anyone splice when its better to desolder one and solder in the new? (OK, I admit it... I'm an electronic engineer that worked as a tech for five years)
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I'm an electrical engineer with a sub specialty in portable power systems (I spent most of my career working directly for OEM LiPo companies as a design and quality engineer.). Splicing wires with a VERY low amperage draw is no better/worse than soldering it directly to the source. Not to mention more time consuming and the board would have to be taken off its mount in the pot bezel.
So, that's why on Earth someone would do it. Makes no difference in performance, as you could literally use 40G wires for the switch and meter connections on these boards as they pull around 0.25-0.5A on average. Now for the load wires and the battery wires, FUCK no you should not splice them together. Ever. Period.
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Still the same amount of connections, you're just soldering two wires together and heat shrinking them. It's now just one solid wire with a piece of heat shrink on it. Don't see how that degrades anything, most modders splice wires on smaller connections as once you mount things like a switch or a pot in the box, it can become hard to solder them INSIDE an enclosure. So wires sticking out from them you can use to splice the connections makes it MUCH easier.
You can solder the 510 negative and positive ring and pin outside the box. You can solder the board outside the box. You can solder the volt meter outside of the box BEFORE the board is mounted. You can NOT solder the switch or pot up outside of the box and then mount them, so having wires coming off that extend to the outside of the enclosure that you can splice together makes it much easier. Also soldering parts up inside the box typically leads to shit joints and potential heat transfer damage due to limited space hindering your quality of work. I use a bezel mount for pots that has the pot inserted from the front and a switch has a mounting nut on it like a 510, so I have now started to splice those connections as it makes the joints on the switch and pot themselves MUCH cleaner and it makes finishing the box up in the end WAY easier too.
What works on paper doesn't always work in practice, especially in modding. Also some volt meters have the wires leading up INSIDE the meter, meaning it's impossible to desolder the wires from the meter, meaning you would have to knock the ENTIRE board out of place and rewire the meter entirely. I see no point in doing this when you can simply splice the new volt meter wires to the old board volt meter wires, heat shrink them and move on.
You can solder the 510 negative and positive ring and pin outside the box. You can solder the board outside the box. You can solder the volt meter outside of the box BEFORE the board is mounted. You can NOT solder the switch or pot up outside of the box and then mount them, so having wires coming off that extend to the outside of the enclosure that you can splice together makes it much easier. Also soldering parts up inside the box typically leads to shit joints and potential heat transfer damage due to limited space hindering your quality of work. I use a bezel mount for pots that has the pot inserted from the front and a switch has a mounting nut on it like a 510, so I have now started to splice those connections as it makes the joints on the switch and pot themselves MUCH cleaner and it makes finishing the box up in the end WAY easier too.
What works on paper doesn't always work in practice, especially in modding. Also some volt meters have the wires leading up INSIDE the meter, meaning it's impossible to desolder the wires from the meter, meaning you would have to knock the ENTIRE board out of place and rewire the meter entirely. I see no point in doing this when you can simply splice the new volt meter wires to the old board volt meter wires, heat shrink them and move on.
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Mikhail Naumov
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I agree with not splicing for load wires. That's a bad call in my eyes, as anything with a load over 5A traveling through it needs to be a secure and constant connection.
However, for .25-1A loads on 22-40AWG wires, splicing is fairly harmless and actually tends to make things easier in the end. I hate having to solder shit up INSIDE the box as it always leads to a sloppy job or something getting melted. So having about two inches of twisted together (helixed) wire pre-soldered to the switch/pot/whatever that sticks OUT of the enclosure allows you to solder it up properly outside of the box using gator clips and such to keep them steady.
I hate soldering without my parts secured or without a lot of space. Shit never ends well man.
But like I said, for the most part I agree, avoid splicing. But for minimal amperage connections that flow through tiny ass wires, it's harmless.
However, for .25-1A loads on 22-40AWG wires, splicing is fairly harmless and actually tends to make things easier in the end. I hate having to solder shit up INSIDE the box as it always leads to a sloppy job or something getting melted. So having about two inches of twisted together (helixed) wire pre-soldered to the switch/pot/whatever that sticks OUT of the enclosure allows you to solder it up properly outside of the box using gator clips and such to keep them steady.
I hate soldering without my parts secured or without a lot of space. Shit never ends well man.
But like I said, for the most part I agree, avoid splicing. But for minimal amperage connections that flow through tiny ass wires, it's harmless.
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GOD fucking DAMN it you know the feel. You get that small cloud of smoke and that horrible smell, only to look down and see something shiny peeking out from a cloud of crusty black nastiness. Sometimes it's so bad it poses a genuine short risk. Then you gotta go desolder the wires and solder on new ones.
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Really depends on the splice. Every house is wired with wire nuts to 20 amp breakers. I splice 300+ amp cables with Polaris connectors. You just have to make sure the splice can handle the load.
In the case of a mod though it's much better to just replace the tiny wire. It's not like a house where it's a hassle to do so
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When you have parts glued and mounted in, removal often can cause damage to the parts which then warrant replacement. Especially things like 3D printed parts. Obviously for switches and pots this isn't the case, but as I said, splicing allows you to solder them up outside of the mod, where-as soldering inside the enclosure is generally a bad idea and poses burn risks.
Not harmful at all, no splice really is. I just don't recommend people splice load wires together because if it's not a damned good splice job (full solder flow and joining between the strands, creating a pretty much solid, flowing surface nearly identical to the original wire) it can negatively impact the circuit in multiple ways. Not everyone can do this or even wants to, so I just recommend people not splice load wires. Switch/meter/pot wires carry such a small load it doesn't matter, as you can use like 42AWG wire for a switch as long as it's not the primary path of electron flow (no fuse).
Unless you aesthetically just dislike heat shrink and the way it looks, there's no impact on the mod or anything at all from proper splices that are then covered properly.
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Similar smell to when you put the batteries wrong in a series or parallel mod.....
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As far as wiring up homes, I can't do it. Every time I end up instructing people who I paid $50 from my group of friends to wire that shit because there's so much bullshit involved just to GET TO the actual wiring. So good on you if you can tolerate that madness, it always fucks with me. I end up walking away cursing with insulation crumbs in my eyes or some shit.
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Lmao it's a dick pain. Hence the reason is rather wire nutt then running a new line.
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Just added more stuff to my sale thread should anyone want to go look.
Your too benighted.....
Simply continue using 18650 cells.......
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Do you have the wiring diagram for the Lipo version without pot? How does the pot get wired in?? I just received all my parts,starting to assemble now.
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Two Categories.......
The best performance and mostly used are DNA 200 DNA 167 DNA 250 MLPWM and pwm hexohm and they are all Lipos..... except the hexohm(2)18650 but soon to be a Lipo...
And second category
..... Junk .....
DNA 250 Wismec dna250 Maxo Crappo
Boxer DNA 250 is ok..... But in its own category for a $300 complete plastic mod.....
I wish they were all 2250mah Lipos
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The best performance and mostly used are DNA 200 DNA 167 DNA 250 MLPWM and pwm hexohm and they are all Lipos..... except the hexohm(2)18650 but soon to be a Lipo...
And second category
..... Junk .....
DNA 250 Wismec dna250 Maxo Crappo
Boxer DNA 250 is ok..... But in its own category for a $300 complete plastic mod.....
I wish they were all 2250mah Lipos
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SirRichardRear
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Nice mods manTwo Categories.......
The best performance and mostly used are DNA 200 DNA 167 DNA 250 MLPWM and pwm hexohm and they are all Lipos..... except the hexohm(2)18650 but soon to be a Lipo...
And second category
..... Junk .....
DNA 250 Wismec dna250 Maxo Crappo
Boxer DNA 250 is ok..... But in its own category for a $300 complete plastic mod.....
I wish they were all 2250mah Lipos
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Don't shoot the messenger.
Mikhail Naumov
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I tried to make a PWM explanation video but hated it and decided to redo it later, Scutt.
The version without the pot is simple. Attach the LEFT circled hole to the wiper closest to the '0' marker on the pot, and the RIGHT circled hole to the center wiper. Cut the '100' wiper off entirely. It makes it look like it wants you to wire the left 0 and right 100 wipers to it, but the one that LOOKS like it goes to the 100 wiper is meant to go to the center wiper with the pot not attached. This is with the board's main side FACING YOU, keep in mind.
The version without the pot is simple. Attach the LEFT circled hole to the wiper closest to the '0' marker on the pot, and the RIGHT circled hole to the center wiper. Cut the '100' wiper off entirely. It makes it look like it wants you to wire the left 0 and right 100 wipers to it, but the one that LOOKS like it goes to the 100 wiper is meant to go to the center wiper with the pot not attached. This is with the board's main side FACING YOU, keep in mind.
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So today was fun.
First I had a Corn Snake (which my genius ass thought was a poisonous Cottonmoth) get IN MY FACE as I walked into my room to get some boxers out of the dresser. I notice.. some picture frames on the floor. Wonder what happened? I pick them up to put them back, sit one of my old dog down, go to sit another one do-.. OH FUCK. I was literally face to face with what knocked the frames off, a VERY LARGE, six foot long Corn Snake. Just flicking his tongue at me.
He was adorable, I will say. I would've picked him up and got him out with my bare hands had I known it wasn't poisonous, but sadly he ended up retreating under some furniture and I had to call the cops to remove it.
I had an ENTIRE, NEW TUBE of Epoxy harden fully in the container for no obvious reason. Happened five minutes after opening it, barely got to use ANY of it. At least I got the magnets in.
Then I sat down for SIX FUCKING HOURS, soldering iPWM after iPWM, slowly realizing the horrifying reality that I got a batch of duds. This is the second time in two months, if it happens a third time I'm probably gonna switch my flagship board over to the NLPWM or the BA Silent PWM. I love the iPWM and when you get good ones they work great but, two dud batches in 40 days. Jesus..
I just got it all cleaned up, then my desk fan fails abruptly.
WHY
First I had a Corn Snake (which my genius ass thought was a poisonous Cottonmoth) get IN MY FACE as I walked into my room to get some boxers out of the dresser. I notice.. some picture frames on the floor. Wonder what happened? I pick them up to put them back, sit one of my old dog down, go to sit another one do-.. OH FUCK. I was literally face to face with what knocked the frames off, a VERY LARGE, six foot long Corn Snake. Just flicking his tongue at me.
He was adorable, I will say. I would've picked him up and got him out with my bare hands had I known it wasn't poisonous, but sadly he ended up retreating under some furniture and I had to call the cops to remove it.
I had an ENTIRE, NEW TUBE of Epoxy harden fully in the container for no obvious reason. Happened five minutes after opening it, barely got to use ANY of it. At least I got the magnets in.
Then I sat down for SIX FUCKING HOURS, soldering iPWM after iPWM, slowly realizing the horrifying reality that I got a batch of duds. This is the second time in two months, if it happens a third time I'm probably gonna switch my flagship board over to the NLPWM or the BA Silent PWM. I love the iPWM and when you get good ones they work great but, two dud batches in 40 days. Jesus..
I just got it all cleaned up, then my desk fan fails abruptly.
WHY
Mikhail Naumov
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Solid iPWM (Not side mounted lipo ver) wire up idea:
Take epoxy, dab on top of PFET fuse on board, then mount it behind or beside the firing switch.
That way you can still see the LED's, the board is safe and maximum space is saved for cleanless and room.
I usually use the versions with pots mounted on, but those are LiPo boards. The regular iPWM works with LiPo's just the same, it just lacks the 5S and 6S input ability and has a slightly lower (but not dangerous) voltage cut off. It's also all that's been in stock for like a month as his LiPo iPWM's sold out within ten minutes of restocking.
So if anyone gets an iPWM and wants to know a good place to put it if they're not mounting a battery sled, that's a solid way. Just epoxy the PFET on the board to the part of the box you want to mount it in.
I normally (as I use the pre-pot'd versions) just epoxy around the mounted pot and shove it into a bezel, which is also held in with epoxy. So it's a bezel, the box and a fair bit of epoxy holding it all there, which is a VERY strong seal overall.
Just be careful with these. Don't use some $10, unregulated iron to solder them up as if it gets too hot it becomes wicked easy to desolder fuses or other important components from the board when working with them. Buy a variable soldering iron, and keep it JUST hot enough to properly melt your solder. You can buy a decent SMD Rework station with an air gun and a halfway decent iron included, variable dials, extra tips and all for like $45. Don't go for the tricked out versions, they have way more parts that can fail. The simpler the better.
I to this day use a $30 SMD 900 series station I got on Ebay. It's just for an iron, but it has a variable dial with a 50W range (more than enough for modding, 30W is enough for modding, 25W is probably enough hell.) and very little to go wrong as there is no LED screen or anything. It came with five extra tips, a damned good iron, a pretty good soldering iron holder with a sponge AND brass for cleaning built in. I also believe it came with like two feet of 50/50 solder and a whole fucking roll of solder wick. So if you know which ones to buy, you can get a killer setup for not a lot of money. Just check the reviews and avoid the super tricked out looking stations that look like $500 setups that only cost $50.
Then get a couple of decent step drill bits, a good drill, some Brimstone drill templates, some flux, a lot of wire and a ton of solder. You're ready to make mods.
If you're unsure of taking the gamble on a cheaper setup (SMD has a lot of good setups and a lot of shit ones, you just have to know which ones to buy) and don't need a ton of extra shit, you can get a tried and true, DAMNED good Weller 40W soldering station for around $40 or so. It has a variable dial with a 40W range, a VERY good iron with a decent tip, a good iron stand and a sponge well. You'll have to buy extra tips as time goes on, but I have one of these I used to use before I went to my SMD and it to this day works perfectly. I know people who have Weller stations from the 80's that still work like a dream. Those fucking products LAST.
Take epoxy, dab on top of PFET fuse on board, then mount it behind or beside the firing switch.
That way you can still see the LED's, the board is safe and maximum space is saved for cleanless and room.
I usually use the versions with pots mounted on, but those are LiPo boards. The regular iPWM works with LiPo's just the same, it just lacks the 5S and 6S input ability and has a slightly lower (but not dangerous) voltage cut off. It's also all that's been in stock for like a month as his LiPo iPWM's sold out within ten minutes of restocking.
So if anyone gets an iPWM and wants to know a good place to put it if they're not mounting a battery sled, that's a solid way. Just epoxy the PFET on the board to the part of the box you want to mount it in.
I normally (as I use the pre-pot'd versions) just epoxy around the mounted pot and shove it into a bezel, which is also held in with epoxy. So it's a bezel, the box and a fair bit of epoxy holding it all there, which is a VERY strong seal overall.
Just be careful with these. Don't use some $10, unregulated iron to solder them up as if it gets too hot it becomes wicked easy to desolder fuses or other important components from the board when working with them. Buy a variable soldering iron, and keep it JUST hot enough to properly melt your solder. You can buy a decent SMD Rework station with an air gun and a halfway decent iron included, variable dials, extra tips and all for like $45. Don't go for the tricked out versions, they have way more parts that can fail. The simpler the better.
I to this day use a $30 SMD 900 series station I got on Ebay. It's just for an iron, but it has a variable dial with a 50W range (more than enough for modding, 30W is enough for modding, 25W is probably enough hell.) and very little to go wrong as there is no LED screen or anything. It came with five extra tips, a damned good iron, a pretty good soldering iron holder with a sponge AND brass for cleaning built in. I also believe it came with like two feet of 50/50 solder and a whole fucking roll of solder wick. So if you know which ones to buy, you can get a killer setup for not a lot of money. Just check the reviews and avoid the super tricked out looking stations that look like $500 setups that only cost $50.
Then get a couple of decent step drill bits, a good drill, some Brimstone drill templates, some flux, a lot of wire and a ton of solder. You're ready to make mods.
If you're unsure of taking the gamble on a cheaper setup (SMD has a lot of good setups and a lot of shit ones, you just have to know which ones to buy) and don't need a ton of extra shit, you can get a tried and true, DAMNED good Weller 40W soldering station for around $40 or so. It has a variable dial with a 40W range, a VERY good iron with a decent tip, a good iron stand and a sponge well. You'll have to buy extra tips as time goes on, but I have one of these I used to use before I went to my SMD and it to this day works perfectly. I know people who have Weller stations from the 80's that still work like a dream. Those fucking products LAST.