iStick 50w

[Dissonance]

That's what I'm doing until my trusted vendors get them in stock. I'm sure that they are already on order from China just waiting to arrive from their suppliers. They will most likely have the full kits. So it's plug and play right out of the box. The ego adapters are the best I have seen to date. I will let people know as soon as I get word that they are in stock. I suspect they will move like lightning.

 

[Zamazam]

That's what I'm doing until my trusted vendors get them in stock. I'm sure that they are already on order from China just waiting to arrive from their suppliers. They will most likely have the full kits. So it's plug and play right out of the box. The ego adapters are the best I have seen to date. I will let people know as soon as I get word that they are in stock. I suspect they will move like lightning.

I spoke to a buddy who takes pre-orders out of his vape storefront. He sold out his allotment of 100 units in 2 days, from walk in's only. This 50 Watt iStick is the medium wattage APV game changer, if it's any good and reasonably accurate.

 

[SteveZ]

These iSticks look really nice, especially the 50W. I'm looking for a pocket and wallet friendly companion to my Sigelei 100W+ in the 30-60 watt range and the 50W iStick seems to fit both cost and form factor. I am wondering about the fixed battery however. What are your options when the battery wears out eventually? If you are handy with a soldering iron is it possible to replace one of these batteries or do you just chuck it out like an old ego? That consideration has me leaning towards the ipv mini or a zna 50 watt though the zna is a little longer than I'd like.

Opinions here are always well though out so I was wondering what everyone thought about this?

 

[Zamazam]

I'm sure someone will disassemble it and post pics. At $50, if it lasts a year, it's worth it...

 

[rdsok]

I'm going to rag on Eleaf for just a moment... one thing that they've done and I don't like is not address the AVG output so it's showing RMS instead.... Another company has even had time to "clone" it a while back and has been selling them for a while now ( Smart 20 ) . I feel it should have been addressed by now and they've ignored it instead.

 

[richardrpsgt]

It looks like they have done something about AVG vs RMS in the 50 watt, not sure about the 30 watt though. Of course we won't know for sure until the units start arriving into capable hands.
As far as recharge cycles and batteries wear out, I'm sure it will last me until the next thing I must have comes along.

 

[Dissonance]

I spoke to a buddy who takes pre-orders out of his vape storefront. He sold out his allotment of 100 units in 2 days, from walk in's only. This 50 Watt iStick is the medium wattage APV game changer, if it's any good and reasonably accurate.

That has been my experience as well. The vendors I deal with have all sold out their stock when the 20 watt i Stick was introduced. I like to deal mainly online since you can get a better deal and save some money. My local B&M employ on average 6 employees and have to pay rent and property taxes, so dealing online there's less overhead and saves me time. When I visit my brick and mortars all of them raved about the i Stick and told me it was their best selling mod ever. They ended up placing larger back orders for more units to meet the high demand. I feel that the 30 and 50 watt will follow suit and now cover the needs of most vapors easily, three choices to select from and all priced as affordable as it gets. Like you mentioned, once the 50 watt is released in the next few weeks it will be end game. Most vapors will have all the power and portability in one package. Only thing I can imagine is that the next i Stick offer a 50 watt magnetic door and removable battery option to suit the needs of those who want a replaceable battery. I believe it will happen very soon as Eleaf is known to work quickly and be in tune with their global customer base. There really isn't much more that they can offer at this point, they had single handedly revolutionized the industry with their mods and tanks. All the moderate powered box devices coming out now are the result of the enormous global success of the i Stick 20w. It changed the game in its entirety putting Eleaf in a strong position of leadership in the industry, all of which they clearly deserve for all their hard work and innovation. All the competition we're seeing now with "lower priced mods" are the result of the i Stick being introduced at a very affordable price of $35-40. If it wasn't for that vital piece I can easily see the $50 mods coming out now being priced for much more. Everyone I know who owns it uses the i Stick as their go to mod while the rest collect dust in the dresser drawer. They reached the plateau with all that they aimed for IMHO. I can see the 20, 30 and 50 watt all selling out faster than any other mod out there since most people have no need to exceed the 50 watt threshold. It's going to be an exciting year for sure. I wish I had this technology available years ago when those crappy Blu's hit the market with their overpriced kits and expensive disposable cartridges that would last me half a day at best. The new i Sticks will be released within weeks so we'll all have a chance to experiment with all the substantial upgrades. Some will be more picky than others but that's to be expected with the human condition. Overall, I think they will meet and exceed user expectations.

 

[SusanP4]

here is a review of the 30w

 

[Dissonance]

These iSticks look really nice, especially the 50W. I'm looking for a pocket and wallet friendly companion to my Sigelei 100W+ in the 30-60 watt range and the 50W iStick seems to fit both cost and form factor. I am wondering about the fixed battery however. What are your options when the battery wears out eventually? If you are handy with a soldering iron is it possible to replace one of these batteries or do you just chuck it out like an old ego? That consideration has me leaning towards the ipv mini or a zna 50 watt though the zna is a little longer than I'd like.

Opinions here are always well though out so I was wondering what everyone thought about this?

It would depend on your personal electronic and soldering skills. I never really considered it because they are priced low and figure after a year you can simply purchase another if you wish. Let's take the 50 watt as an example. You spend $50 which amounts to $4 per (month) on RIO. So the return in essence translates to about 1/2 the price for a pack of cigarettes. $300 per month smoking habit vs $4 per month for your battery. Your savings are astronomical.

 

[Dissonance]

here is a review of the 30w

Thank you Susan

 

[WizsWorld]

Looking at getting the 50w & the Lemo Drop.
Kinda wanting to wait till after the pre-orders & the reviews hit.
Really wanting them & finding it hard not to go ahead & pull the trigger.

 

[Zamazam]

That has been my experience as well. The vendors I deal with have all sold out their stock when the 20 watt i Stick was introduced. I like to deal mainly online since you can get a better deal and save some money. My local B&M employ on average 6 employees and have to pay rent and property taxes, so dealing online there's less overhead and saves me time. When I visit my brick and mortars all of them raved about the i Stick and told me it was their best selling mod ever. They ended up placing larger back orders for more units to meet the high demand. I feel that the 30 and 50 watt will follow suit and now cover the needs of most vapors easily, three choices to select from and all priced as affordable as it gets. Like you mentioned, once the 50 watt is released in the next few weeks it will be end game. Most vapors will have all the power and portability in one package. Only thing I can imagine is that the next i Stick offer a 50 watt magnetic door and removable battery option to suit the needs of those who want a replaceable battery. I believe it will happen very soon as Eleaf is known to work quickly and be in tune with their global customer base. There really isn't much more that they can offer at this point, they had single handedly revolutionized the industry with their mods and tanks. All the moderate powered box devices coming out now are the result of the enormous global success of the i Stick 20w. It changed the game in its entirety putting Eleaf in a strong position of leadership in the industry, all of which they clearly deserve for all their hard work and innovation. All the competition we're seeing now with "lower priced mods" are the result of the i Stick being introduced at a very affordable price of $35-40. If it wasn't for that vital piece I can easily see the $50 mods coming out now being priced for much more. Everyone I know who owns it uses the i Stick as their go to mod while the rest collect dust in the dresser drawer. They reached the plateau with all that they aimed for IMHO. I can see the 20, 30 and 50 watt all selling out faster than any other mod out there since most people have no need to exceed the 50 watt threshold. It's going to be an exciting year for sure. I wish I had this technology available years ago when those crappy Blu's hit the market with their overpriced kits and expensive disposable cartridges that would last me half a day at best. The new i Sticks will be released within weeks so we'll all have a chance to experiment with all the substantial upgrades. Some will be more picky than others but that's to be expected with the human condition. Overall, I think they will meet and exceed user expectations.

Remember when the DNA20 came out? Mod builders and some larger companies began making mods for $170 up. Then the DNA30 came along and mod makers like Hana charged $250 upwards for their mods. Then Hana got their balls handed to them when 30 Watts in an Aluminum box came over from China. Rather than just copying and mass producing mods and attys, China is now making their own designs. Look at the Lemo, the Kanger Sub Tank, the Atlantis - China is in the game big time and pushing prices down, they are making their own RDA's that are quality products and are selling well despite all the elitists thumbing their noses at Chinese made attys. Most of the stuff elitists use is manufactured in China and either put together here from parts, or simply packaged and shipped from China to the US distributors of "Authentic's". The elitists would be floored if they figured out the truth about how stuff is made, assembled, and packaged with the made in America logo. My wife drives a Ford 500. It ain't a Ford, it's a Volvo frame, engine, drive train, and electronics!

 

[Zamazam]

Looking at getting the 50w & the Lemo Drop.
Kinda wanting to wait till after the pre-orders & the reviews hit.
Really wanting them & finding it hard not to go ahead & pull the trigger.

Get the Lemo drop - It's a really good RTA. I'm vaping mine now, making it hard to see the screen though the fog...

 

[Dissonance]

I suppose the elitists will always have their say, not that it's really of any importance. Most everything comes out of China with the exception of the Provari and their products for the most part have been very good. When I had my Provari mini I was covered by Provape for a year and it could have been easily extended should I have needed it. Chinese manufacturers are doing a great job and keeping costs down they ARE the game now. I think once some people get past their ethnocentric attitudes it will all pan out. Chinese have been working hard and succeeding on all fronts. I could see a reasonable argument made with e-juice being higher quality in the U.S. and it's certainly been my experience but with mods, nearly everything is made in China and very good.

 

[Dissonance]

Looking at getting the 50w & the Lemo Drop.
Kinda wanting to wait till after the pre-orders & the reviews hit.
Really wanting them & finding it hard not to go ahead & pull the trigger.

Only a few weeks to go and you'll have access to the complete package. I'm getting the Subtank and both the 30 and 50 watt. The Lemo is good too.

 

[wally]

I'm going to rag on Eleaf for just a moment... one thing that they've done and I don't like is not address the AVG output so it's showing RMS instead.... Another company has even had time to "clone" it a while back and has been selling them for a while now ( Smart 20 ) . I feel it should have been addressed by now and they've ignored it instead.

I have two Isticks and I love the way they are and all my friends think as well, and they are the most popular e cig's out there so there must be a reason. Is there a law that they should be like the others because I have others and I like this better. It won't matter to me if they change the settings because as it is it works flawless for me. I'm going to buy the 30 watt and the 50 watt. There use to be differences between fords, chevy's and the rest this is what sets them apart. Most people like differences. I still have not seen a battery last as long as the one in the istick. I know you said it would run longer if it were made like the others but if this was true why don't the other batterys last as long. I have four similar mods and tried a lot of different batt none come close. I could care less about the rms and means if they work as well as mine do and everyone I know that has them says the same because they work very well. As far as the 30 and 50watt they listened to the public and I think they are the best looking mods on the market not to mention h ow well built and rock solid they are very few can brag about that. IM almost sure they will probably have glitches when the come out but maybe not because the istick was there testing mod.

 

[KillaB3E]

Only a few weeks to go and you'll have access to the complete package. I'm getting the Subtank and both the 30 and 50 watt. The Lemo is good too.

My Sub Tank is in transit, with extra coils. New e-juices are also in transit from Israel and Cali. The only thing left now is something to power the Sub Tank, with those wonderful e-juices (I hope - never tried Yaeliq) the iStick 50W. Can't wait, wish I could get it right now!

 

[Dissonance]

My Sub Tank is in transit, with extra coils. New e-juices are also in transit from Israel and Cali. The only thing left now is something to power the Sub Tank, with those wonderful e-juices (I hope - never tried Yaeliq) the iStick 50W. Can't wait, wish I could get it right now!

That's awesome to hear. Will let you know as soon as my trusted vendors get the i Sticks in stock, already in route from China. They are likely going to be ordering a lot of units so as not to have to deal with pre-orders and running out. It's a very popular device so they learned to stock up from their experience with the 20 watt. Usually, for juice I prefer to stick with domestic suppliers but on rare occasion will venture abroad. These vendors have very good juices and there's more. Let me know what you think of Yaeliq

www.virginvapor.com and www.aliceinvapeland.com and www.evape.us

 

[rdsok]

I have two Isticks and I love the way they are and all my friends think as well, and they are the most popular e cig's out there so there must be a reason. Is there a law that they should be like the others because I have others and I like this better. It won't matter to me if they change the settings because as it is it works flawless for me. I'm going to buy the 30 watt and the 50 watt. There use to be differences between fords, chevy's and the rest this is what sets them apart. Most people like differences. I still have not seen a battery last as long as the one in the istick. I know you said it would run longer if it were made like the others but if this was true why don't the other batterys last as long. I have four similar mods and tried a lot of different batt none come close. I could care less about the rms and means if they work as well as mine do and everyone I know that has them says the same because they work very well. As far as the 30 and 50watt they listened to the public and I think they are the best looking mods on the market not to mention h ow well built and rock solid they are very few can brag about that. IM almost sure they will probably have glitches when the come out but maybe not because the istick was there testing mod.

I understand that the iStick works well... and all of that. It doesn't change the fact that the numbers it shows it is set at are not equivalent to other mods... no matter how you want to gloss that over... they are not accepted correct values and no amount of "liking" the mod will change the facts. If you don't like the technical details or want to ignore them... but it doesn't change the truth

 

[Robert B]

Most of the stuff elitists use is manufactured in China and either put together here from parts, or simply packaged and shipped from China to the US distributors of "Authentic's". The elitists would be floored if they figured out the truth about how stuff is made, assembled, and packaged with the made in America logo. My wife drives a Ford 500. It ain't a Ford, it's a Volvo frame, engine, drive train, and electronics!

Didn't want to say anything, but can't help myself. Look what is sitting next to the back door of Epic Design Studios (smpl mods). A shipping container from China.

 

[Dissonance]

One of the many glowing reviews of the Eleaf i Stick. This is the 20 watt (prior to the vast upgrades) of the soon to be released 30 and 50 watt. I think now would be a good time to for people to think about getting a 30 watt instead of the 20watt due to all the positive upgrades and price point of only $40, which is the same as the 20 watt. That's only for people who don't think they will need over 30 watts. The rest will get the complete deal with the 50 watt. I'm getting both.

http://spinfuel.com/eleaf-istick-review/

 

[Zamazam]

I'd imagine the 20 watt model will be $17-$20 if you can find them when the 30's and 50's hit the streets...

 

[Dissonance]

I'm thinking that might happen as well although not sure how low they will go on the 20 watt. There will still be a good market for them. Although the 30 and 50 watt i Sticks will certainly move the masses towards more options depending on the atomizers they use and whether there will be more of a shift towards the sub ohm genre. If they go for only $20 that would be an absolute steal in my book. That's about equivalent to a 650 or 900 mAh spinner battery.The choice would be a no brainer. In fact, there wouldn't be a product on the market that could even come close to competing at that price for 20 watts of power, OLED, small form factor and 2200 milliamp battery. So yeah, time will tell, but it may very well happen.

 

[Dissonance]

Or they will eventually become nostalgia on Ebay selling for astronomical prices to collectors in 2025

 

[ej1024]

Im skipping the 30 watts and the 50 watts due to battery alone..
Sent from my
LUMIA 1520

 

[Dissonance]

Wow 2200 and 4400 milliamp is not enough battery power? That's 2-4 days on a single charge. It's more battery power than anything I have ever used.

 

[Dissonance]

Eleaf will release the i Sticks and the new MELO tank on 1/29th which means that domestic vendors should have them arrive from China hopefully by mid February. I can wait. Good things always take time so no hurry.

 

[KillaB3E]

First iStick 50 watt review that I've seen:

Ki||@

 

[Dissonance]

 

[WiSilverVape]

Now how did I not see the temp protection tell me they added that later lol. So are we dealing with an evolve chip

Not even...if you let your fingers do the walking online, you find out it shuts down for 5 secs if the device reaches 70 degrees celcius (158 degrees farenheit). Unless they have a magical way of measuring the temp of your atty, I take that as if the istick gets hot. Either way, definitely not the same animal by any stretch of the imagination. Mr. Dissonance is so in love with this company, he doesn't take the time to get or report the details. I'll wait to see what actually comes out.

 

[wally]

Not even...if you let your fingers do the walking online, you find out it shuts down for 5 secs if the device reaches 70 degrees celcius (158 degrees farenheit). Unless they have a magical way of measuring the temp of your atty, I take that as if the istick gets hot. Either way, definitely not the same animal by any stretch of the imagination. Mr. Dissonance is so in love with this company, he doesn't take the time to get or report the details. I'll wait to see what actually comes out.

There are others out with temp protection no biggie other than it could save your life.

 

[Joshua Iles]

First iStick 50 watt review that I've seen:

Ki||@

That dude is nuts, although very mild compared to rip and our professional from china. Seems they didn't really fix the button rattle, but if it fires like it's supposed to that's just cosmetic anyway IMHO.

 

[Joshua Iles]

Wow 2200 and 4400 milliamp is not enough battery power? That's 2-4 days on a single charge. It's more battery power than anything I have ever used.

On the 2200 I get like 3 days when I'm working, 2 when I'm off (can't use it at work), & that's chain vaping a lot & no backup at the moment. Anyone saying the battery life is bad is on bath salts.

 

[KillaB3E]

That dude is nuts, although very mild compared to rip and our professional from china. Seems they didn't really fix the button rattle, but if it fires like it's supposed to that's just cosmetic anyway IMHO.

the guy is pretty wild, but he's entertaining to watch.

 

[wally]

Never noticed a button rattle until I shook the shit out of it lol

 

[aballer]

will a lemo drop fit flush on the istick 50w? thnx in advance

 

[Zamazam]

will a lemo drop fit flush on the istick 50w? thnx in advance

Yes. 22mm.

 

[wally]

will a lemo drop fit flush on the istick 50w? thnx in advance

lol

 

[Dissonance]

Not even...if you let your fingers do the walking online, you find out it shuts down for 5 secs if the device reaches 70 degrees celcius (158 degrees farenheit). Unless they have a magical way of measuring the temp of your atty, I take that as if the istick gets hot. Either way, definitely not the same animal by any stretch of the imagination. Mr. Dissonance is so in love with this company, he doesn't take the time to get or report the details. I'll wait to see what actually comes out.

Apparently you didn't bother to read my posting as everything was covered. I always strive to give the most thorough and accurate information based on what is provided by the manufacturer. I devote much of my personal time in helping others to meet that objective with excellence. Scroll up and read post 42, 65 and 66. Everything was covered including temperature alarm function, screen indicator and protection from overheating. I had also posted a picture showing the visual display in real time.Thank you.

 

[Dissonance]

On the 2200 I get like 3 days when I'm working, 2 when I'm off (can't use it at work), & that's chain vaping a lot & no backup at the moment. Anyone saying the battery life is bad is on bath salts.

I was quite shocked as well. No company can ever please everyone much like the nature of the human condition. Some will like you and some won't, life goes on. Eleaf will continue to meet and exceed the needs of most vapors and that's all that matters in the end. They know they have excellent products and their high sales volume are a testament to the fact. They worked hard to earn their success on the global stage. If 2200 and 4400 milliamp is not enough battery power then people have lost touch with reality and/or have extremely unrealistic expectations.

 

[Dissonance]

Wanted to let you guys know if you're interested in the 30 watt i stick you can get them now at www.evape.us for only $34 which is an excellent deal and in stock. If you check and they are sold out don't worry they usually restock quickly. This mod is going to be a very big seller all over the world. Enjoy and best wishes with your new toy.

 

[Lefty]

I suspect he was choosing to pass on built in non-replacable batteries, not based on capacity. It's a deal killer for some people.

 

[Dissonance]

I don't think so. Why would he come on the i Stick thread and say something like that? If he wasn't interested in the built in batteries he would have avoided the thread altogether since it wouldn't be relevant. I understand and agree that it will not serve the needs of those who want replaceable batteries but then those people wouldn't have no business or interest on this thread. Based on the tone of his comments he wasn't satisfied with the the battery capacity. Which I and others thought was very bizarre. But to each their own. Life is full of colorful people that's for sure.

 

[Mazam]

I understand that the iStick works well... and all of that. It doesn't change the fact that the numbers it shows it is set at are not equivalent to other mods... no matter how you want to gloss that over... they are not accepted correct values and no amount of "liking" the mod will change the facts. If you don't like the technical details or want to ignore them... but it doesn't change the truth

The point wasn't a matter of not liking or ignoring technical details...it was an acknowledgment on just how insignificant that nit picking played out to be in their enjoyment of the device. I mean nobody i know that bought an Istick ended up sitting around thinking to themselves "jesus, i'm having to set this istick's wattage at 9.5w instead of the 11w i run it for the the same vape on my twice as expensive alternative box. F this, after watching PB's video i can't even use this pos anymore". In fact, most of the flaming i did see was coming out of people who didn't even own the device to begin with, while essentially just repeating the same stuff the other guy who didn't own the device either was complaining about before them.

Heck, most people wouldn't know or care anyway. The fact it was inexpensive, worked great, and spared them the "so what type of charger/batteries do i have to buy on top of this in my startup cost?" hassle made it pure win for the masses that did own it. I expect the 30/50w to be no different.

Even as somebody who's all about the replaceable battery factor, i'm still tempted to get one for an out and about piece at that price point. At least if the new ones hold up as good as my 20w did in the all important "oops, i dropped it again" factoring department before i passed that one along to my mother. Even if they don't i guess it's still better then dropping my Sigelei 100w+ though

 

[inspects]

I bought two of the 30W iSticks a couple days ago....they had the 50W available for preorder only at $47.95

 

[Hermit]

The point wasn't a matter of not liking or ignoring technical details...it was an acknowledgment on just how insignificant that nit picking played out to be in their enjoyment of the device. I mean nobody i know that bought an Istick ended up sitting around thinking to themselves "jesus, i'm having to set this istick's wattage at 9.5w instead of the 11w i run it for the the same vape on my twice as expensive alternative box. F this, after watching PB's video i can't even use this pos anymore". In fact, most of the flaming i did see was coming out of people who didn't even own the device to begin with, while essentially just repeating the same stuff the other guy who didn't own the device either was complaining about before them.

Yes, well...

Never mind that PB bumped it up his testing list because people were already complaining of it running hot and burning their juice.

Never mind that knowing the technical details meant some didn't buy an istick who would have otherwise. They can flame it if they want.

Never mind that the error is usually much more than just 9.5 vs 11 W.

It's impossible to say how many people gave up on their isticks (or didn't buy) because of it, but you can be sure that it's "some". Just as it's "some" that are fine with "just turning it down a bit". The point is, we simply don't know much about those statistics.

I'm still using the two I bought. But I'm also still a complainer (mine are forced to sit at the lowest setting normally). I would have bought a couple more if they didn't have the flaw.

Will I buy a 30W or 50W? I don't know. Maybe the 30W. I note that these later models go down to 2.0V output, so even with incorrect non-RMS calcs could be capable of lower powers than the 20W model.

 

[Joshua Iles]

I personally knew about the rather inaccurate output before I got mine, didn't deter me from making my decision. I can understand how some people would be turned off by something that isn't 100% accurate. I also however can't see why people who own the istick didn't figure out early on that 11 w on an istick is not the same as on an MVP. Me personally I just turn it up or down to preference. If it's burning wouldn't u just want to turn it down? I know the istick isn't all that accurate, but it works for me tho. I've seen some devices where the buttons fall off or have funky screen outputs or even completely just stop working for no real reason. I however have not seen anyone say anything remotely related to a complete failure with the istick. Sure the numbers are off, but I've seen a high fail rate on much more costly devices. Maybe its still too soon to see if they'll still hold up.

 

[wally]

You know what I cain't figure is I for several years now been building my protank coils at 2 ohm and with my other mods vaping at 4 volts or 8 watts anything over that I could get a burnt taste. Now usung the istick 20 for weeks I have been using the same coils at the same volts or watts with the same results.! Except I can actually go higher watts on the itstick without any burning taste. So explain that Mr. Hermit. the three devices used was the svd, Innokin itaste vv, and vamo. A frind of mine that copy's what I do said the very same thing to me. And note this IS on a full charge. After discovering this a friend at work lowered his watts because he herd that he was told he should. I asked him to up his wattage where he normally vaped his older devices and he did. Well guess what he had the same results as we did. Now I don't know if we three have isticks that have a rms means change or all this talk is just that but I do know no difference here.

 

[Joshua Iles]

Hehe. Mine does run a little hot I think, but I aint no profeshuna.

 

[wally]

Hehe. Mine does run a little hot I think, but I aint no profeshuna.

Yes I could see complaining about something if it was a piece of crap but this istick is a very nice device which was to improve the egos and other similar devices it was not made to go up against expensive models. Now the new 30 and 50 watt have made all improvements plus additional improvements and are very nice units especially for the price. Now if the did nothing with the rms and means none of us care because it works better than the rest. like I said there is no written law how they have to be made this is what sets the standards for future. You cant go by what engineers have set in stone if we did we would never have any improvements just as all the famous inventers how many times they told them it could not be done or this is the way we do it lol. If we had listened to people like this we would be living in the stone age. And I am right. Just look at some of the crap that came out of other countries I had one mod like to blow my hand off because of the flaws so if you want to attack something attack something like that believe me there are plenty.