May 11, 2020

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Rooster Cogburn

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A bit over 100 years ago, with the "Temperance" movement that led to Prohibition.
Ah yes and that worked out so well. Carrie Nation going into bars with a hatchet smashing everything because she didn’t like it so no one else should. If only we would have banned the hatchet, prohibition may not have happened, the mafia wouldn’t have gained incredible profits and power, and the “reality” show Moonshiners wouldn’t have been made. I’ll take my Appalachian backwoods reality show based around the ginseng root, thank you very much. Or as I now call it “the seng” pronounced like tang with an S and the appropriate hillbilly twang.
 

Rossum

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Ah yes and that worked out so well. Carrie Nation going into bars with a hatchet smashing everything because she didn’t like it so no one else should. If only we would have banned the hatchet, prohibition may not have happened, the mafia wouldn’t have gained incredible profits and power, and the “reality” show Moonshiners wouldn’t have been made. I’ll take my Appalachian backwoods reality show based around the ginseng root, thank you very much. Or as I now call it “the seng” pronounced like tang with an S and the appropriate hillbilly twang.
Yep, banning stuff that people want has never worked out well.
 

KingPin!

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It's part because Brexshit is on the way so no-one really wants to listen to old England anymore, in fact they're this close to changing their name from United Kingdom to Divided Kingdom, we also have the TPD to worry about throughout all of European Union member states, in cohort with additional, more strict regulations being applied in some of member states (including where I live i.e. Belgium, a country no bigger than New York City alone so anti-social anti-humanitarian lobbyists typically rule on many fronts through populist politics that defy science-based logical sense), and, I heard a rumor saying you have to drown a child in a barrel of tar before you could become a member of the Royal College of Physicians so, basically, that's the whole story.
Just think we’ll finally get that divorce Caram...I submitted the papers today under “irreconcilable differences”...don’t worry you can keep TPD

Good luck propping it all up :vino:
 

Rhianne

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It's part because Brexshit is on the way so no-one really wants to listen to old England anymore, in fact they're this close to changing their name from United Kingdom to Divided Kingdom, we also have the TPD to worry about throughout all of European Union member states, in cohort with additional, more strict regulations being applied in some of member states (including where I live i.e. Belgium, a country no bigger than New York City alone so anti-social anti-humanitarian lobbyists typically rule on many fronts through populist politics that defy science-based logical sense), and, I heard a rumor saying you have to drown a child in a barrel of tar before you could become a member of the Royal College of Physicians so, basically, that's the whole story.

I read in the Guardian that the Labour Party is trying to stop old Boris from pushing through a no deal Brexit, but they left it a bit late in the day for that, imho.
I meant their health attitude towards vaping, not the TPD thing, which seems designed to annoy people and make them buy more teeny bottles. They know it’s saving lives and say it, unlike in the US where they trot out teen vaping epidemics to rile up the parents. Jmho.


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Rhianne

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Ah yes and that worked out so well. Carrie Nation going into bars with a hatchet smashing everything because she didn’t like it so no one else should. If only we would have banned the hatchet, prohibition may not have happened, the mafia wouldn’t have gained incredible profits and power, and the “reality” show Moonshiners wouldn’t have been made. I’ll take my Appalachian backwoods reality show based around the ginseng root, thank you very much. Or as I now call it “the seng” pronounced like tang with an S and the appropriate hillbilly twang.
I forgot about Carrie Nation, a grade A pain in the ass!
And the war on drugs turned out splendidly, too! :teehee:
They’re growing ginseng in the backwoods? Good for them.


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Rhianne

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Sorry, I think I missed this earlier. I would consider it freeze-ready it it comes to you in glass bottles. But very few vendors are willing to ship that way due to the risk of breakage in transit. Nic base doesn't freeze solid; it just thickens up some. You can certainly put it in the freezer in plastic bottles, but that's less than optimal. Stuff leeching out of the plastic is certainly a possibility, and in addition, all plastics ares somewhat permeable to oxygen, and oxygen is bad. So the right way to store nic for the long term is in your freezer, in glass bottles.


No worries.


You can learn what you need to know as needed; there's no deadline for that. I had no damn clue about mixing when I ordered my first liter of nic. I can tell you the exact date I placed that order: December 31, 2013; two weeks after I quit smoking without actually intending to do so. Quite a few years earlier, I had given up on ever being able to quit, so vaping was miracle to me, and I wasn't ever going to let anyone take that miracle away.

It’s a miracle to me, too. And I fell into quitting really easily, too. It’s pretty amazing, still. (Just had my four month anniversary the end of last month. Yay!) I still wonder what’s going to happen to the people who aren’t up on Deeming regs, and will wake up to a ban or a whole lot of taxes on vape products. Being prepared now is crucial!

So I guess pouring VG into big glass bottles is in my future! Glug, glug. :giggle:

Glad you’re hanging out a bit here. Yes, I miss you. What can I say?


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Rhianne

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an obvious downside of importing nic here, is north to south hemisphere. If it is not hot here, it is there

@Rhianne rebuilding doesn't take much learning. I was vaping RDA on mechs within a month of starting vaping. And, if you can mix a beverage, you can mix eliquid
Australia is pretty huge, and yes crossing the hemispheres would take some time.
I’d want to go elsewhere for the non winter seasons there, though! Like Scotland or Iceland maybe?

I just experienced what regulated actually meant, when my mod was set to 40-ish watts and was firing on twenty something since the cell was running down. Really annoying!

Let’s hope I can mix, since the only bevvie I make now is coffee. But I make a good cup of Joe.

Have a good weekend.


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Rhianne

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I really think it will be hard to target soap makers. Maybe ecig related entities will be forced not to sell. IDK but really? PG/VG?
Those naughty crafty soap makers! If I don’t laugh, I might cry about living here, though.


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zaroba

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DIY is the answer.

PG and VG are used in a very wide range of products from cosmetics to food.
FDA could be a thorn in the side of vape shops using it, but they couldn't do much to the overall PG/VG market. They will have pharmaceutical companies, cosmetic companies, and food industries beating down their door. Any single one of them makes the vaping industry look like a kid with a lemonade stand. If the FDA messes with VG/PG availability then the vaping industry will become the least of their concerns.

Other DIY equipment is on similar grounds.
Flavor concentrations are used widely in the food industry (everything listing natural and/or artificial flavors in the ingredients), which is an almost 1 trillion dollar a year market, FDA would have a tough battle stopping the sale of flavor concentrates.
Kanthol is used in industrial applications and as heating elements in consumer appliances, another thing they can't really mess with.
Cotton is used for wicks, but that would be a silly thing to try and ban.
Nicotine is the only questionable thing, but that would effect pharmaceutical companies as well due to other smoking cessation devices.

The most the FDA could try to do about these items is to try and restrict sale to registered businesses, and in the US, starting and registering a business is actually incredibly easy *and* free. Anybody can do it to get around such a rule.
 

Grandpa

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Rossum said that Carolina Extraction was a good place. And I basically trust him! If we don’t have nic base for SHTF, we’ll be well and truly screwed. Just wait until it’s cooler weather to buy it.


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Carolina Extract is where I buy my nic. They have salt nic too now. I sent an inquiry about that awhile back and they never answered me but I see now they have it on their website. I have been buying all my nic from them since I started DIY and I have absolutely no complaints. Really good stuff, packed extremely well, and they ship it pretty fast. I recommend.
 

Rossum

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Nicotine is the only questionable thing, but that would effect pharmaceutical companies as well due to other smoking cessation devices.
The pharma companies who make NRTs don't buy their nicotine at "retail" a liter (or less) at a time like we do. The FDA could easily enough restrict the sale of nicotine to registered tobacco product and pharma manufacturers, thereby shutting off the (legal) flow to us DIYers without affecting the bigger players.

I agree with the rest of what you wrote. PG, VG, and flavors are much less of a concern. PG is sold by the gallon at every rural animal feed place, as well as Tractor Supply. VG can be had from lots of different places, including Walmart. A goodly number of the flavoring vendors that we buy with were in the flavorings business long before vaping was even a thing.
 

Carambrda

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I read in the Guardian that the Labour Party is trying to stop old Boris from pushing through a no deal Brexit, but they left it a bit late in the day for that, imho.
I meant their health attitude towards vaping, not the TPD thing, which seems designed to annoy people and make them buy more teeny bottles. They know it’s saving lives and say it, unlike in the US where they trot out teen vaping epidemics to rile up the parents. Jmho.


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Yes I know about their attitude towards vaping. The TPD was designed to essentially tax the living daylights out of lifesaving products so if more people die from smoking cigs and/or from taxation on poverty the gov't could save even more money as a result from the fact dead people can't get a pension and also it was designed because not enough empty plastic bottles were winding up everywhere for mosquitos to lay enough eggs in and spread enough viruses like Zika, West Nile, Chicungunya, and Dengue fast enough that would enable more people to die even much faster still so it all makes sense. I heard in the news last night Donald Trump's attempt to buy Greenland was a fail so he'll have to go find another place to grow strawberries I guess, but anyway for a bottle of good scotch we'll be happy to sell him England instead.
 

Rhianne

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Yes I know about their attitude towards vaping. The TPD was designed to essentially tax the living daylights out of lifesaving products so if more people die from smoking cigs and/or from taxation on poverty the gov't could save even more money as a result from the fact dead people can't get a pension and also it was designed because not enough empty plastic bottles were winding up everywhere for mosquitos to lay enough eggs in and spread enough viruses like Zika, West Nile, Chicungunya, and Dengue fast enough that would enable more people to die even much faster still so it all makes sense. I heard in the news last night Donald Trump's attempt to buy Greenland was a fail so he'll have to go find another place to grow strawberries I guess, but anyway for a bottle of good scotch we'll be happy to sell him England instead.
I like your view on matters! Unfortunately it is probably true!

You forgot to mention microplastics getting into water supplies, but if everyone is dead, it won’t matter.

I don’t keep up on news or politics here, but trying to buy a country seems like something he would do. What else do you do with all that money?
So Belgium will sell England for some good single malt?


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Rhianne

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Carolina Extract is where I buy my nic. They have salt nic too now. I sent an inquiry about that awhile back and they never answered me but I see now they have it on their website. I have been buying all my nic from them since I started DIY and I have absolutely no complaints. Really good stuff, packed extremely well, and they ship it pretty fast. I recommend.
Thanks, Grandpa. I’ll check them out when it’s slightly cooler. And when I empty out my teeny freezer.
Everyone’s been recommending them, and in a blind taste test at ECF, they came out first. Wouldn’t it be great if we could have commercials or ads like that? Even though it was the other forum..


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Carambrda

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I like your view on matters! Unfortunately it is probably true!

You forgot to mention microplastics getting into water supplies, but if everyone is dead, it won’t matter.
Not a problem to me. I don't vape water
I don’t keep up on news or politics here, but trying to buy a country seems like something he would do.
Well he certainly can't buy Belgium. Belgium's already occupied by USA corporations like google and farcebook, and his nukes are stored here.
What else do you do with all that money?
Idk. Legalize hemp and ban vaping?
So Belgium will sell England for some good single malt?
After we cut ourselves a good deal with Scotland, we might factually consider. Or maybe he just prefers the vodka, idk
 

Artemis

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I am only worried about buying coils. Closed systems/pods seem like the future of vaping. However, I like my simple mtl vape setup. I help out my brother and SIL with vaping. I suppose time will tell. I might have to order from China and take my chances in the future.
 

Rhianne

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Not a problem to me. I don't vape water

Well he certainly can't buy Belgium. Belgium's already occupied by USA corporations like google and farcebook, and his nukes are stored here.

Idk. Legalize hemp and ban vaping?

After we cut ourselves a good deal with Scotland, we might factually consider. Or maybe he just prefers the vodka, idk
Yep, hemp is legal and vaping has Deeming. Go figure.

So very American to store nukes and have giant corporations overseas.

Scotland is the home of great weather and great single malt!
I can see Trump as a vodka drinker. Not that I’m against vodka, it just mixes well with the supposed Putin intervention in the Donald’s election.


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Just Frank

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How will I know if it’s the freezer ready nic? If I buy it in plastic, it can’t be frozen? Or the plastic leaches like most plastics do anyway?
I didn’t mean to come down on you so hard, since I like you and you’re only the messenger about what’s coming down.
I was thinking about it last night, and I still can’t believe the FDA might actually try to stop millions of people from vaping. I’d rather pay tax, as draconian as that may be, to have access to what I need/want to vape. NYC and State tax doubled the price of smokes, but we paid it. It was harsh, but they had people by the balls.
It may sound selfish or childish, but at this point I’ve only got 9 months to learn rebuilding, mixing, as well as stocking up on enough nic for like fifty years!! Kind of a very daunting task.
But if it plays out that we can get Chinese gear and coils, then the only thing to do is get nic and some concentrates. Although RBAs would be very nice, too. (Sorry for thinking aloud. )

Thanks, VU folks need to be hip to all this. :cheers: and :hug: for taking the time to write this. <—winner! :teehee:


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Nine months to learn mixing and building isn't impossible. I did it myself with a lot of help from folks here. That's not to say that you won't continue to learn, but you can learn enough to manage quite well in a month or two. There's a lot of help available.

The biggest drawback for me, and it would be for a lot of people, is the money it takes to get started and then to try to stockpile at the same time.

I need nicotine. That's one thing I have not stocked up on. I hope bases will continue to be available.

Everyone just remember that mechs generally don't fail like regulated mods do. Just sayin. You could do worse than to buy a dozen VV Pulse BF kits for cheap. Might not be pretty, but they vape, and they are as reliable as a brick.
 

Rhianne

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Nine months to learn mixing and building isn't impossible. I did it myself with a lot of help from folks here. That's not to say that you won't continue to learn, but you can learn enough to manage quite well in a month or two. There's a lot of help available.

The biggest drawback for me, and it would be for a lot of people, is the money it takes to get started and then to try to stockpile at the same time.

I need nicotine. That's one thing I have not stocked up on. I hope bases will continue to be available.

Everyone just remember that mechs generally don't fail like regulated mods do. Just sayin. You could do worse than to buy a dozen VV Pulse BF kits for cheap. Might not be pretty, but they vape, and they are as reliable as a brick.
Nic base will be the first thing that I stock up on too. I’m not going to let the FDA force me to quit nicotine, because they want tax money from cigs. Saving up for a stash will be difficult for lots of people. The economy in the US is harsh now.
My first mod in 2013 was VV. I loved that thing. But back then $125 for the kit and like $30 for 30mls seemed really high. I bought an Aspire VV stick when I started vaping again 6 months ago. I hardly use it since the battery is not great. I’ll look at the Pulse, I know a lot of people here use them.
I think VG from soap DIY places should be available, along with PG.


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Artemis

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Labor day sales might be interesting. I'm still waiting on a decent nic sale. I'm also looking for some cheap box mods and or cheap sticks (like a steampunk stick).
 

DogMan

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Labor day sales might be interesting. I'm still waiting on a decent nic sale. I'm also looking for some cheap box mods and or cheap sticks (like a steampunk stick).
Hiliq do free shipping every thanksgiving. Others have their big sales then too
 

Rhianne

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Labor day sales might be interesting. I'm still waiting on a decent nic sale. I'm also looking for some cheap box mods and or cheap sticks (like a steampunk stick).
I saw that on sale at Sourcemore. They also have the punk box mod one on sale. Have you tried either?
Hope your hubby is doing well. :wave:


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hellcatrydr

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Does anybody think China gives a poop about US deeming regs??
At a minimum, I think we'll still have access to hardware sent from Chinese companies.

Also IMO, don't sweat the nicotine thing.
I've lived near and bought from Nic River since the owner used to answer the phone.
They just moved into a huge new building, I've been there. They are clearly growing at a ridiculous pace.
The owner tells me that 'nicotine's not going anywhere'.

It still sucks though. I can't help but feel that something will happen to save us from this chit.
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Rossum

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Does anybody think China gives a poop about US deeming regs??
Given that they don't care about the ret of the world's intellectual property laws, I would say the answer to this question is, "No" unless it begins to affect their business.

At a minimum, I think we'll still have access to hardware sent from Chinese companies.
I agree. If you order it, and you have the ability to pay for it, they will ship it. But what are the odds a given package will make it through? How much effort will the Customs Service put into enforcement at the behest of the FDA? And will the FDA be able to convince payment processors to blacklist certain Chinese vendors?

Also IMO, don't sweat the nicotine thing.
I've lived near and bought from Nic River since the owner used to answer the phone.
They just moved into a huge new building, I've been there. They are clearly growing at a ridiculous pace.
The owner tells me that 'nicotine's not going anywhere'.
I'm glad he's an optimist. So was George Custer. The reality is, he doesn't know, and everyone in that business in the USA can easily be told, "You may only ship nic base to FDA registered tobacco products manufacturers." Now my guess was that they would leave the DIY crowd alone, at least until a substantial "informal market" in e-liquid developed and the media made a big stink about it. But the current hysteria over people being hospitalized with lung problems "due to vaping" seems like the perfect setup for this.

I can't help but feel that something will happen to save us from this chit.
I sure hope so, but I think it would be imprudent to count on it.
 

Jinx'd

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Given that they don't care about the ret of the world's intellectual property laws, I would say the answer to this question is, "No" unless it begins to affect their business.


I agree. If you order it, and you have the ability to pay for it, they will ship it. But what are the odds a given package will make it through? How much effort will the Customs Service put into enforcement at the behest of the FDA? And will the FDA be able to convince payment processors to blacklist certain Chinese vendors?


I'm glad he's an optimist. So was George Custer. The reality is, he doesn't know, and everyone in that business in the USA can easily be told, "You may only ship nic base to FDA registered tobacco products manufacturers." Now my guess was that they would leave the DIY crowd alone, at least until a substantial "informal market" in e-liquid developed and the media made a big stink about it. But the current hysteria over people being hospitalized with lung problems "due to vaping" seems like the perfect setup for this.


I sure hope so, but I think it would be imprudent to count on it.
this ^
 

DogMan

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"laser pointers" are banned here, after some airport silliness

lots of them get through customs unchecked though
 

bobnat

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Having vaped and DIY for 2.5 years in a country where it was all banned (it's been legal for the past 5 months) all I can say is that people still figure out how to get things done. Given the size and complexity of the US economy, I'm sure people will figure it out if things go far south.
 

Rhianne

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Given that they don't care about the ret of the world's intellectual property laws, I would say the answer to this question is, "No" unless it begins to affect their business.


I agree. If you order it, and you have the ability to pay for it, they will ship it. But what are the odds a given package will make it through? How much effort will the Customs Service put into enforcement at the behest of the FDA? And will the FDA be able to convince payment processors to blacklist certain Chinese vendors?


I'm glad he's an optimist. So was George Custer. The reality is, he doesn't know, and everyone in that business in the USA can easily be told, "You may only ship nic base to FDA registered tobacco products manufacturers." Now my guess was that they would leave the DIY crowd alone, at least until a substantial "informal market" in e-liquid developed and the media made a big stink about it. But the current hysteria over people being hospitalized with lung problems "due to vaping" seems like the perfect setup for this.


I sure hope so, but I think it would be imprudent to count on it.
It certainly is a perfect setup. They have the ability to test whatever those kids were “vaping”, but they’re seemingly ignoring that aspect of this situation.
I’ve never vaped anything other than nic. And I don’t appreciate being lumped in with kids trying to get high with black market dreck.
No one other than vapers seem to see the hypocrisy in all of this.


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Synphul

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Does anybody think China gives a poop about US deeming regs??
At a minimum, I think we'll still have access to hardware sent from Chinese companies.

Also IMO, don't sweat the nicotine thing.
I've lived near and bought from Nic River since the owner used to answer the phone.
They just moved into a huge new building, I've been there. They are clearly growing at a ridiculous pace.
The owner tells me that 'nicotine's not going anywhere'.

It still sucks though. I can't help but feel that something will happen to save us from this chit.
.




.
At a min, still have access to hardware sent from Chinese companies. So basically like 97.5% of the vape market will remain unchanged? lmao. Just pointing out the obvious that not much is made in the US when it comes to vaping. That's like what, 2 or 3 mech companies and maybe 1 or 2 atties?
 

Rhianne

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At a min, still have access to hardware sent from Chinese companies. So basically like 97.5% of the vape market will remain unchanged? lmao. Just pointing out the obvious that not much is made in the US when it comes to vaping. That's like what, 2 or 3 mech companies and maybe 1 or 2 atties?
There’s not much of anything that isn’t made in China now. If we buy it directly from them, we just won’t be going through online stores or B&M shops.
It still sucks, though. All for kids who don’t really need protecting from the vape epidemic!
Hopefully American mod companies will stay afloat in a SHTF scenario.


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jwill

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How will I know if it’s the freezer ready nic? If I buy it in plastic, it can’t be frozen? Or the plastic leaches like most plastics do anyway?
I didn’t mean to come down on you so hard, since I like you and you’re only the messenger about what’s coming down.
I was thinking about it last night, and I still can’t believe the FDA might actually try to stop millions of people from vaping. I’d rather pay tax, as draconian as that may be, to have access to what I need/want to vape. NYC and State tax doubled the price of smokes, but we paid it. It was harsh, but they had people by the balls.
It may sound selfish or childish, but at this point I’ve only got 9 months to learn rebuilding, mixing, as well as stocking up on enough nic for like fifty years!! Kind of a very daunting task.
But if it plays out that we can get Chinese gear and coils, then the only thing to do is get nic and some concentrates. Although RBAs would be very nice, too. (Sorry for thinking aloud. )

Thanks, VU folks need to be hip to all this. :cheers: and :hug: for taking the time to write this. <—winner! :teehee:


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Oh, you will pay, regardless. The people making these decisions for us are going to punish us all first to the point that you want to beg for the right. Then they look like good guys when they let us have it back with ridiculous strings attached and high taxes.

Learn everything you can and start stocking up. Winter is coming.
 

Rhianne

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Oh, you will pay, regardless. The people making these decisions for us are going to punish us all first to the point that you want to beg for the right. Then they look like good guys when they let us have it back with ridiculous strings attached and high taxes.

Learn everything you can and start stocking up. Winter is coming.
Winter in every senses of the word. I’m glad for this forum because networking may become crucial to us as vapers.
There’s so much stuff I’ve got to learn that it’s overwhelming! Building, mixing, possibly unregulated mods, battery safety, etc.

The fact that we may be “allowed” to continue vaping and buying gear because of taxation is pretty fucked up! This whole thing with these kids getting sick was very well timed for the gov’s interests in squashing vaping, too.


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Rhianne

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Our Governor in NY is trying to push through a ban now because of the “threat to young people” from vaping. I’d think that smoking is a lot more threatening to them.


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obijuan77

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Our Governor in NY is trying to push through a ban now because of the “threat to young people” from vaping. I’d think that smoking is a lot more threatening to them.


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I literally just saw this on a promo for the news at 10. Gonna have to watch and see this shit. Just when I thought I couldn't possibly hate someone this much, and he does this :finger:
 

Rhianne

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I literally just saw this on a promo for the news at 10. Gonna have to watch and see this shit. Just when I thought I couldn't possibly hate someone this much, and he does this :finger:
It really makes me not like living here! So much for this being a cool, open minded city. I’m really hating him now!


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SteveS45

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It really makes me not like living here! So much for this being a cool, open minded city. I’m really hating him now!
Fight it with your voice and ADVOCACY~! Emails will on occasion get an actual response which you can tell you :Legislators how you feel and support. It make a difference not matter what you read.
 

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