Need to get better at making liquid

[Soundsystem00]

I have a lot of flavors by flavor west, flavor apprentice, and a few others. But mostly those two. My friend said that all the premium juice that I buy is a rip off, and that he can make the same thing.

I have literally never tasted a juice by him that even came CLOSE to premium! I have been able to get kind of warm by adding a ton of sweetner called "super sweet" but it clogs up the coils instantly.

How does #32 by beard last so long, and still remain so sweet without jamming the coils? And how does it remain thin?

I have tried adding a little extra PG but doesnt do much difference. I think there are other sweetners that I should use. But it isnt just that. It tastes harsh a lot of times. Is this because premium companies let the flavors steep before selling them? 3 days, or is it a month?

Sometimes I put the juice bottle in hot water for 20 mins to help it steep a little but I know it is not as good.

I just want to be better at making flavors so I can save money and contribute to the world.. And sometimes I just want to give up because I waist a lot of juice and coils while I am testing stuff and most of the time it taste like shit. Halp.

 

[Huckleberried]

Flavors can also be used as sweeteners, without gunking up your coils too quickly. Just depends on what kind of mixes you're going for. Have you looked through the recipes section here? You might find some mixes for flavors you already have, give them a whirl and see how others are using theirs.

 

[gopher_byrd]

First of all, welcome to VU @Soundsystem00!

Here's another trick, on http://e-liquid-recipes.com/ (ELR) add all the flavors you have to what they call your flavor stash. Then click on what can I make. That will pop up all the recipes you can make that are on ELR with your flavors.

If you want to create your own recipes you need to single flavor test all the flavors you have and take notes. It's a pain in the ass, but you can't create if you don't know how much of each flavor concentrate you need so you can taste it. On ELR, if you click on a flavor it will show the average and median usage for that flavor to give you a starting point.

@Smoky Blue has a great write up on how she single flavor tests here: http://flvfan.com/?s=testing She specializes in using Flavorah and other ultra concentrates, but the same concept can be applied to your FW and TFA flavors.

Have fun and enjoy! There are lots of folks here to help you on your journey down the rabbit/gopher hole!

 

[SteveS45]

Welcome @Soundsystem00 and I hope you enjoy your stay~!

To improve at DIY.................. Practice, practice, practice and experiment~! I always recommend making standalone flavors so you can perfect a single flavor and then experiment with mixing them together. Good Luck

 

[misswish]

And take lots of notes! No, you really won't remember all of percentages of all trials, all of the differences in taste, etc.

 

[SteveS45]

And take lots of notes! No, you really won't remember all of percentages of all trials, all of the differences in taste, etc.

Very good advice especially when tweaking~! When I make a recipe I start with it online and write notes or tweaks down on the printed copy which I mostly work off. Amazing how adding a few drops translates, or adding an extra ML by accident can be less than 1% or more that one. When something is just the way I want then I correct or edit the online file and print a copy for the recipe envelope.

 

[Just Frank]

I have a lot of flavors by flavor west, flavor apprentice, and a few others. But mostly those two. My friend said that all the premium juice that I buy is a rip off, and that he can make the same thing.

I have literally never tasted a juice by him that even came CLOSE to premium! I have been able to get kind of warm by adding a ton of sweetner called "super sweet" but it clogs up the coils instantly.

How does #32 by beard last so long, and still remain so sweet without jamming the coils? And how does it remain thin?

I have tried adding a little extra PG but doesnt do much difference. I think there are other sweetners that I should use. But it isnt just that. It tastes harsh a lot of times. Is this because premium companies let the flavors steep before selling them? 3 days, or is it a month?

Sometimes I put the juice bottle in hot water for 20 mins to help it steep a little but I know it is not as good.

I just want to be better at making flavors so I can save money and contribute to the world.. And sometimes I just want to give up because I waist a lot of juice and coils while I am testing stuff and most of the time it taste like shit. Halp.

It's hard trying to create recipes right from the start. I suggest looking at established recipes that interest you. Make small batches of a few to see if you like them. If you do make larger batches. That way you have some good stuff to vape on while trying to do your own thing.

By small batches I mean 10 to 15ML. That way if you don't like it you're not stuck with 120ml or whatever. Ive seen people post, "I mixed a liter of this stuff and it's crap".

You really need to get to know your flavors before you just mix them all up. Try them solo and find out what different percentages of it taste like. It's not a quick process. You gotta be persistent.

I'm hearing good things about sugar daddy sweetener. But I dont use much sweeteners myself anymore. I mean they have their place but I dont just add it to everything. Sometimes I add one drop of Super Sweet into 15ml of a fruit flavor to see how it does.

I think "premium" is just a recipe that's been dialed in and most likely sweetened. By dialed in I mean they probably tried a hundred versions of their blend and found the best percentages to use. Also a lot of them use additives like FW Toner, TFA Smooth, or FA Wizard IMO. They blend everything together, cut harshness, and give the vape a thick feeling. That's just what I think.

 

[SteveS45]

"I mixed a liter of this stuff and it's crap".

I will never understand making that much of anything to be honest. I may mix up 2 or 3 60ML's of my Tobacco Blends but sometimes out of the blue I get tired of them in the middle of 120-180 Ml's and have 60 or more just aging.

 

[wildgypsy70]

So, yeah. All of the above.
1. Single flavor test. The most important thing you can do to help yourself.
2. Mix small to start
3. Look at other recipes and see what percentages other people are using.
4. Research. There are plenty of you tubers doing mixing videos. Noted, Mixlife, DIYorDIE, Fresh03, DIY Downunder, Mixin Vixens.....all mixing shows. Several of those mixers do mixing for commercial accounts. They have a wealth of knowledge.
5. VU also has a wealth of knowledge! Hit the Daily Mixing thread, recipes and tips threads for all the good stuff!

Commercial juice is jacked up with sweetener and high percentage flavors. They don’t use anything we can’t get a hold of. Just a mixer, recipes and flavors. Nothing different. Cloning is HARD. I’m trying to clone 3 or so juices right now and it’s all little bottles of trial and error and a ton of research. Don’t give up!

And welcome to VU!

 

[Soundsystem00]

Thank you guys. I really appreciate it. And thanks for the welcoming.

Should I get my squonk back online? Maybe that will save me a little time?

I have never tried single flavors. I pretty much mix everything with milk or vanilla custard. Small amounts.

The smallest bottles I have right now are 30ml but will work on getting more.

And that sweetener sounds insteresting I may ge that. So you think the premium juice boys use flavor west and flavor apprentice stuff?

And yes I have used e liquid recipes without much luck. Whenever I try to do a concentrate option, it ends up filling the whole thing with flavor and discloses the PG/VG so how do I reduce the amount without doing a bunch of math myself?

THANKS plz keep it rolling!

 

[SteveS45]

The smallest bottles I have right now are 30ml but will work on getting more.

You can still use a 30ML to make 15ML's....................

 

[88ArDeN88]

Thank you guys. I really appreciate it. And thanks for the welcoming.

Should I get my squonk back online? Maybe that will save me a little time?

I have never tried single flavors. I pretty much mix everything with milk or vanilla custard. Small amounts.

The smallest bottles I have right now are 30ml but will work on getting more.

And that sweetener sounds insteresting I may ge that. So you think the premium juice boys use flavor west and flavor apprentice stuff?

And yes I have used e liquid recipes without much luck. Whenever I try to do a concentrate option, it ends up filling the whole thing with flavor and discloses the PG/VG so how do I reduce the amount without doing a bunch of math myself?

THANKS plz keep it rolling!

Definitely all of the things that everyone has been telling you. I have vaped "premium***" juice for like 2 years and started DIY about 2 months ago now. The first recipes I made weren't great. I hopped on here and used the internet to do as much research as I possibly could and placed an order for what I found would be a really great starting place. FW and FA are great, but having a mix of CAP, FA, FW, TFA, FLV, OOO, HS, will definitely be beneficial. I find that the complexity that having different brands creates is really what I'm looking for in a juice. Certain companies do certain things really well, others, not so much. Premium juice gets their ingredients in the same spots us DIYers get them, they just have good mixers working for them. They got good by practice.

What has helped me is thinking about it like I think about creating a good meal. How do I want to balance it, what do I want the main note to be, how do I want the other flavors to accompany it? USE THIS SITE FOR INFO. I will say it again, USE THIS SITE FOR INFO. Ask questions, people will help. Buy a TON of 10ml bottles. You can get a ten pack for like 2.80 at wizard labs or BCF. Buy like 50. Create testers. I will create 3 versions of each recipe at once sometimes just to try and see which I like best.

To steep, I use a big ole thermos and fill it with hot water and let my juices steep in there overnight, then I let them sit out of there to cool for at least a day before I even try them. Once I try them if I think they need longer (most custards do) then I let them sit for about 3 days and sample again and repeat. I wouldn't go making big bottles until you know you really like what you've made. I see a lot of people suggesting to find recipes on ELR that you like and start by mixing them. It is good advice if you don't think that you will be great at coming up with your own stuff.

*** - (a note on premium juice) - premium juice is a terrible name for this stuff. it is only premium because they charge so much money for it. I think it should be called overpriced junk. most clones I have made of juices I liked, I have come to realize are 2-3 ingredients and a bunch of sweetener. all my originals are much better. ***

 

[wildgypsy70]

Thank you guys. I really appreciate it. And thanks for the welcoming.

Should I get my squonk back online? Maybe that will save me a little time?

I have never tried single flavors. I pretty much mix everything with milk or vanilla custard. Small amounts.

The smallest bottles I have right now are 30ml but will work on getting more.

And that sweetener sounds insteresting I may ge that. So you think the premium juice boys use flavor west and flavor apprentice stuff?

And yes I have used e liquid recipes without much luck. Whenever I try to do a concentrate option, it ends up filling the whole thing with flavor and discloses the PG/VG so how do I reduce the amount without doing a bunch of math myself?

THANKS plz keep it rolling!

The premium mixers definitely use FA, FW, Caps, tfa.....they have nothing we don’t have or can’t get our hands on. They’re just really good at mixing.

And @88ArDeN88 is right. Most premium juice is just a few flavors at high percentages with a lot of sweetener.

 

[Just Frank]

And that sweetener sounds insteresting I may ge that. So you think the premium juice boys use flavor west and flavor apprentice stuff?

And yes I have used e liquid recipes without much luck. Whenever I try to do a concentrate option, it ends up filling the whole thing with flavor and discloses the PG/VG so how do I reduce the amount without doing a bunch of math myself?

THANKS plz keep it rolling!

Yeah they use the same stuff we can get almost every time. Sometimes we can try a commercial juice and recognize a flavor they use because they're distinctive.

I've heard theories about commercial juice, "Premium" and vape shop lines. For instance, Ive read claims that some juice companies in California use Capella. The concentrates are made close to them and they get discounts buying in bulk. Ruthless supposedly is one of these companies. A lot of people think that B&Ms use a lot of FW. They're just theories tho, the big name brands don't disclose what they use to us. They use whatever company or companies they deal with.

 

[Soundsystem00]

I just spent $27 on z 60 ML..Of "premium"...It is because it smelled good. It is a vanilla birthday cake flavor. I guess the pretty logos, good smells, and "reputation" generally makes me trust them. But the sad truth is that I have been ripped off many times, and there are only 3-4 premium flavors that consistently satisfy me.

I am going to go back at it tomorrow and make two 30ml bottles of two of my favorite juices, flavor alone, like you guys said. Then when I figure out how they taste I will try with mixing them. So never mix more than 2-3 flavors? I have done more than that, especially when reading the e-liquid-recipes stuff.

Generally I put about 4-5ml of flavor and 8 drops of super sweet. What do you guys use? And may I please have some links to articles on this site about creation? Thank you.

 

[wildgypsy70]

You can use more than 2-3 flavors.

My recipes run around 7-12%. Recipes can be any percentage you want!

Head over to the Recipes thread and the Daily Mixing thread to get ideas. There are many people that can help.

Also, go to Pinterest. So many pictures of yummy desserts.........

 

[Soundsystem00]

12%? How many ML is that roughly? Because I like putting 8ml of flavor in my mixes sometimes but I was told that it is too much and could ruin the mix.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I just spent $27 on z 60 ML..Of "premium"...It is because it smelled good. It is a vanilla birthday cake flavor. I guess the pretty logos, good smells, and "reputation" generally makes me trust them. But the sad truth is that I have been ripped off many times, and there are only 3-4 premium flavors that consistently satisfy me.

I am going to go back at it tomorrow and make two 30ml bottles of two of my favorite juices, flavor alone, like you guys said. Then when I figure out how they taste I will try with mixing them. So never mix more than 2-3 flavors? I have done more than that, especially when reading the e-liquid-recipes stuff.

Generally I put about 4-5ml of flavor and 8 drops of super sweet. What do you guys use? And may I please have some links to articles on this site about creation? Thank you.

e-Liquid Calculator

 

[Smoky Blue]

So you think the premium juice boys use flavor west and flavor apprentice stuff?

I have a few clients that only use all FLV, it really depends on the manufactured juice line, they are all different.

And yes I have used e liquid recipes without much luck. Whenever I try to do a concentrate option, it ends up filling the whole thing with flavor and discloses the PG/VG so how do I reduce the amount without doing a bunch of math myself?

THANKS plz keep it rolling!

I suggest head over to http://e-liquid-recipes.com and get an account if you do not have one already.
In settings, you can set it up the way you want.

There is a lot of info to help.. I would start here: http://e-liquid-recipes.com/guide


Def do solos.. starting as low as you can. Pick up a set of scales and a note book..
Write down what all you taste and when, and if you like or don't.
Add in things like this flavor will go with ____ or it wont go with ____
and repeat solo testing as the months go along.

 

[88ArDeN88]

12%? How many ML is that roughly? Because I like putting 8ml of flavor in my mixes sometimes but I was told that it is too much and could ruin the mix.

Yah 8ml of flavor is A LOT. That is about 27.5% flavor in the mix in a 30ml. I try to stay under 20% when I can. I have like one recipe that hits 21%, but it's really balanced and not overwhelming. 8ml of just one stand-alone flavor is crazy. I can link you to some of the stuff that helped me to start out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/5mf44k/making_a_catalog_of_concentrates_that_add/

https://vaping360.com/best-e-liquids/e-liquid-recipes-concentrates/

https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/532yyj/making_a_catalog_of_flavors_that_add_texture/

https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/2bimbr/matts_tfa_recommendations/

the second link on here has a pretty good list of stuff to order in your first DIY shipment. I wouldn't make 30ml flavor testers, I would get 10ml bottles and make maybe 3 testers of each flavor. one at 3% one at 5% and one at 8% or something like that, this is just an example. Really do some research. Trust me, me linking a bunch of sites to you is only going to give you my view on whats important. Dive into the DIY ejuice forums here and look for yourself. You can do it!

 

[Just Frank]

12%? How many ML is that roughly? Because I like putting 8ml of flavor in my mixes sometimes but I was told that it is too much and could ruin the mix.

We use percentages and like others have said, and e liquid calculators. They're easy to use once you get the hang of it. We use both percentages and calculators for good reasons. Convenience and accuracy for the most part.

Look at posted recipes. There's a list of flavors and percentages used. Go to a caculator and put the flavors and numbers in. It does all the math for you.

You have to research whatever flavors your using atleast a little bit. The flavors have an optimal range. Too little you don't taste it. Too much and you can get all sorts of weird stuff going on.

 

[Soundsystem00]

Thank you guys!! Oh yeah, I have another question.

Do the flavors get stale over time? I have a lot of them sitting on a shelf and they have been there for quite some time. The location they are at, is room temp for the most part, but at night I turn off the central heating and/or AC and its a little under or above room temp. Not by much. But does this affect the flavor? A lot of these flavors do not taste very good.

 

[Smoky Blue]

Thank you guys!! Oh yeah, I have another question.

Do the flavors get stale over time? I have a lot of them sitting on a shelf and they have been there for quite some time. The location they are at, is room temp for the most part, but at night I turn off the central heating and/or AC and its a little under or above room temp. Not by much. But does this affect the flavor? A lot of these flavors do not taste very good.

If not kept in a semi dark room, flavors will "age" just like ejuice.

If they do not taste good to you, why do you still have them? |
Just wondering

 

[Just Frank]

Do the flavors get stale over time?

Yeah. Some go bad faster than others. I have some that over a year old and taste fine. I keep them in the dark and in a cool place. It's a good practice to keep all of your supplies away from UV light and heat....I've read. I didn't want to find out the hard way, so that's what I've always done.

If they taste bad and are over a couple of years old, you might want to get some new concentrates. Get the SMALL bottles (10-15ML) if you do. Until you know what you like, it's not a good idea to get big bottles of anything.

 

[SteveS45]

keep all of your supplies away from UV light and heat....

In the past, most light-induced changes in food were caused by sunlight. ... Fluorescent lights give off light when ultraviolet rays (resulting from the passage of .... temperature is not properly controlled, it can cause food to deteriorate and spoil.

 

[kross8]

I have a lot of flavors by flavor west, flavor apprentice, and a few others. But mostly those two. My friend said that all the premium juice that I buy is a rip off, and that he can make the same thing.

I have literally never tasted a juice by him that even came CLOSE to premium! I have been able to get kind of warm by adding a ton of sweetner called "super sweet" but it clogs up the coils instantly.

How does #32 by beard last so long, and still remain so sweet without jamming the coils? And how does it remain thin?

I have tried adding a little extra PG but doesnt do much difference. I think there are other sweetners that I should use. But it isnt just that. It tastes harsh a lot of times. Is this because premium companies let the flavors steep before selling them? 3 days, or is it a month?

Sometimes I put the juice bottle in hot water for 20 mins to help it steep a little but I know it is not as good.

I just want to be better at making flavors so I can save money and contribute to the world.. And sometimes I just want to give up because I waist a lot of juice and coils while I am testing stuff and most of the time it taste like shit. Halp.

find a profile,,, candy, creamy, bakery, ,whatever,,,,, then go find a well liked recipe ~~~in my case it was bakery so I went with diyordie's Funfetti recipe,, I picked out 2main ingredients and started building from there,,, often I notice ratios some use 1% +2%+3% or whatever it allows for the flavors to layer. I don't use any sweeteners,, which is good because I vape 30+/-mls a day and change my wicks &coils on Sunday's

 

[Soundsystem00]

Cool!! This may be the problem! That the flavors have been stored too long. My friend gave me a lot of his flavors to experiment with. He kept them in a an area of the building that was not exposed to direct sunlight. But at night he turned off the AC/heater so.. It would get cold back there in the winter and hot in the summer. Think that may have spoiled them? I know some of the flavors are a year or two old..

This may be a breakthrough. Where is a good website that I can go and order some flavors? I have some recipes that I want to try out! Any recommendations?

Thanks again to everyone for all of the helpful responses.

 

[wllmc]

Thank you guys. I really appreciate it. And thanks for the welcoming.


I have never tried single flavors. I pretty much mix everything with milk or vanilla custard. Small amounts.

https://www.bullcityflavors.com/game-over-custard-by-mama-js-discounted-full-recipe/

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/mama-js-game-over-custard-the-official-thread-by-wllmc.321945/