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Please share your steep tips or trick

Smoky Blue

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I do.. make it your final mix the first time.. that way everything is mixed at one time and it is a continual mixture..
any variation can be seen, as it wont blend quicker.. try it and see for yourself :)
 

Ld3441

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If you add PG/VG to your mix you will also dilute the flavor. If you are vaping lower mg now than you were and want to lower it, mix the same recipe in lower mg and combine them. Example: If you had 12mg and wanted 6mg then make the same amount of 0mg to add to the 12mg and you will have 6mg.
 

Hobby Kid

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If you add PG/VG to your mix you will also dilute the flavor. If you are vaping lower mg now than you were and want to lower it, mix the same recipe in lower mg and combine them. Example: If you had 12mg and wanted 6mg then make the same amount of 0mg to add to the 12mg and you will have 6mg.

Oh yes! I see what you mean. I'm wondering if I still have the concentrates. Else I'll do a cocktail. I left some transparent bottles in broad daylight for a few months (concentrates) and they began to evaporate. They're all in draws now or other places.
 

Sully

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One thing I like to do sometimes is mix the nic and flavorings with just a light amount of VG (no more than the volume of the flavorings themselves). I'll put the open bottle in the SC with heat and a fan blowing on it. Different flavors require different lengths of SC time but a couple hours is usually plenty. Once alcohols are evaporated and unwanted aromas released I mix the remaining VG/PG, shake and let sit for a while. My alcohol flavors used to take 2 weeks to steep/breathe, now I can mix and vape same day. I'm considered "transferring" all my alcohol based flavorings to VG. Mix VG and flavor equal parts, evaporate alcohol, store in fridge.
 

Passunca

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Ok gang... steeping is something I know well. Im the guy from ECF that nailed down the most used method for crock pot steeping. So rather than heading over to that other vaping forum and reading thru hundreds of pages and thousands of posts on testing using crock pots or UC's Ill keep it simple for you. Also adding some recent scientific tests to my info done by another member of that very forum.

First off those tests. They show that a HEATED UC and crock pot steeping will offer nearly indescernable results in the same amount of time. My advice is if you have a crock pot at home dont run out and buy an ultrasonic cleaner to steep juice. Its just not necessary. Im still waiting on more info regarding nicotine concentration loss when heating juice but it looks to be negligible, if at all, based on the temps we are using. So have at it. Ill update with more info if I find out that changes at all.

So my tried and true, tested for two years and counting method. Also done by many many others with stellar results.

1) Fill crock with hot water to below the level of the neck of your bottles.
2) Put crock on low heat setting to heat up. It should be at or near 150° F for steeping. This is your target temp and what you want to maintain for the duration of your steeping.
3) Mix your juice. I personally use glass boston round dropper bottles.
4) Cap it, hard shake it by hand till mixed thru.
5) Once mixed if you prefer to "off gas" any alc base flavoring or heavy aromas in your juice (liquor flavors or heavy floral scents for example) place it in the crock pot with the cap off for the first hour. Then cap for duration. If thats of no concern, cap it and put your juice in the crock.
6) Let it sit in that crock at 150° for a total of four hours. You can go longer but you will likely find it unnecessary.

This four hours will shave about 2 to 2.5 weeks off your steeping for ANY juice. All tobaccos included. Even the most stubborn of them. Shaking is absolutely unnecessary with this method. The heating causes the juice to mix and all on its own.

Yes, you can put it in the closet for weeks. On a window sill. In a hot car, or even in your bra and itll be just fine.... in time. A crock saves time, and effort. Plus this is a hell of alot easier than dropping bottles in reheated cups of water over, and over, and over again (how I started using my crock was because of that).

Ive been mixing juice over two years. Im a mostly VG guy too btw, 80% VG usually. Its the method I use and Ive used all the others as well. It is the best way to do it.

But, use any method you like and gives results you prefer. I just dont like waiting weeks on my tobacco flavors and I vape alot of them. I used to closet steep when I first started mixing, never again will I do so. Even if I know a juice needs four weeks for full maturity itll still go in the crock for four hours just to shave a couple weeks off it, and it works for that as well.

And no, microwaving juice is a bad idea esp in plastic bottles. More so if the flavoring is a tank cracker containing triacetin, a plasticizer used in making flavorings. Use glass folks. Its better and lasts longer, looks nicer, and preserves juices better.

Have fun!

This!

And, if I didn't yet praised @buffaloguy work, testing and sharing, let me do it now.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. :)
 

Passunca

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Oh, and two things I forgot to mention:
30 min UC = 1 Week => Not true even with heated UC.
It's closer to 2H = 1 Week.

Microwaving juice is BAD! Doesn't matter if it's plastic or glass bottles. And there's a scientific explanation about it, something to do with sharp heat rise and possible formation of bad stuff that we don't want to vape. I'll try to find it and may post if finding.
 

RocketPuppy

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No matter what type of steeping is used, juices get darker because the nicotine is oxidizing. I think many people stay away from frothing because it increases the oxidation too greatly. Some find this to result in a harsh or bitter tasting nic. With that said, do what works.
 

Smoky Blue

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depends on how long and what method of "frothing" as well..
still.. what ever works, go for it.. it has been said, time is the best..:)
 

kelli

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ya know, there are those who say that any steeping is just pish posh.....it's a myth, doesn't work, a total waste of time. i vehemently disagree. but what do i know? i am just a vapid bitch.
 

RocketPuppy

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I don't recommend the microwave, but if you're going that route, make sure you're using glass bottles. I've heard that microwaving increases the molecular bonding, but I haven't tried it.

Also, make sure it's done in short bursts. 2 seconds at a time. 8 total seconds tops.
 

Cavediver

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Most of my recipes are shake-n-vape. For those few that are not, I'm gathering components to make a magnetic stirring plate.
No matter what type of steeping is used, juices get darker because the nicotine is oxidizing. I think many people stay away from frothing because it increases the oxidation too greatly. Some find this to result in a harsh or bitter tasting nic. With that said, do what works.

Last time I bought a liter of nic, I broke it down into 120ml bottles for freezing. I used a foodsaver vacuum sealer, a canning jar adapter, and a canning jar to de-gas the individual bottles. It's amazing how much air gets mixed in when you're stirring stuff, let alone shaking or mixing. I've yet to try this on bottles of stuff I'm going to vape, simply because it's gone too fast to matter to me.
 

buffaloguy

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ya know, there are those who say that any steeping is just pish posh.....it's a myth, doesn't work, a total waste of time. i vehemently disagree. but what do i know? i am just a vapid bitch.

I disagree also. In fact for those that say it pish posh there have been tests blind very controlled tests done (between closet, uc, and crock pot on ecf recently), chem analysis, and even spectrograph results Ive seen on reddit.

Ive been working the crockpot for over 2 years and Im thrilled with the results I get even with the most stubborn tobaccos like tfa black honey tobacco and things with tobacco absolute (just examples, there are plenty stubborn tobaccos!)

And thank you Passunca. I cant say Im the first to ever use a crock pot but as far as I know there was no real method so I worked on it a long time to nail it down.
 

UncleRJ

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I just got in a batch of three different E-Liquids and they all have a noxious undertone of a not nice flavor of the same type. Thinking alcohol. Overpowers the flavor that is intended.

I put all three bottles with with the top off in my handy toaster oven set very low for 30 minutes. Just warm to the touch. They are now in a cupboard with the top still off until tomorrow when I will give them another try.

I am hoping for the best!
 

Ld3441

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If juice has alcohol you can leave caps off for 24 hours. Then caps on and steep. Leaving the caps off for days is said to lose flavor but I have not done this myself.
 

Thunderball

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I DIY a lot, but I don't steep. When I mix a bottle, I close it and set it a cup of hot tap water for a couple of minutes. Not to steep, but to warm it enough that the liquid is very runny. Then I shake it well by hand, vape right then and there.

I mix small batches and generally use them within a day or two. Occasionally one sits longer. The only flavors that taste much different to me after "steeping" are some tobaccos and spice flavors. Spices like cinnamon tend to change strength as they age - some stronger, some weaker. Tobaccos seem to get mellower (but I don't mix many tobaccos, so that might just the ones I've used). The nic base you use can also play a role. The lower the nicotine strength and the 'cleaner' that nicotine is, the less time it takes for flavor changes to occur. Steeping a really spicy recipe in peppery-tasting nic can take weeks to get to its final flavor, in my experience.

Agree with this 100%.

If the recipie is right and you use high quality Nic (no peppery taste, no smelly nic) it doesent need steeping. If it needs to sit for weeks, I change the recipie. I do heat my juice up in a fondue pot for an hour or so just to get the molecules banging around so it will mix well.
 

buffaloguy

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Ok is this true or false please? Does ejuice lose flavour strength by Steeping in the dark, with the lid off, for a week?

It is true and you will over oxidize your juice. The enemy of nicotine is air. Its fine to off gas your mix if its got a strong alcohol, chemical, or floral smell to it but after 24 hours if thats not in check it likely wont be. Those that say it works leaving caps off longer.... no. What they are experiencing is overall loss of quality in their juice, flavor weakening, nic degradation, and any water evaporating out of it as well which will thicken it and increase dryness in mucous membranes while vaping. All fine if you drink alot of water tho. They just dont know their juice is.worse than it could be.

Yeah, they will say Im wrong. Ive tested it tho. Ive never had an experience where after off gasing for 24 hours with the caps off that leaving them off longer worked to increase quality or improve the juice.

As I may have said before, when using a crock pot or heated UC, fondue pots work too.... if you are off gasing leave caps off the first hour, then cap them for the duration of the heat steep. Its never failed me yet ridding those chemical or alcohol overtones and will hell tame floral scents. I used to hate tpa english tobacco cause to me it was very rose/flowery scented fresh mixed. Now I like it after it steeps.
 
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It is true and you will over oxidize your juice. The enemy of nicotine is air. Its fine to off gas your mix if its got a strong alcohol, chemical, or floral smell to it but after 24 hours if thats not in check it likely wont be. Those that say it works leaving caps off longer.... no. What they are experiencing is overall loss of quality in their juice, flavor weakening, nic degradation, and any water evaporating out of it as well which will thicken it and increase dryness in mucous membranes while vaping. All fine if you drink alot of water tho. They just dont know their juice is.worse than it could be.

Yeah, they will say Im wrong. Ive tested it tho. Ive never had an experience where after off gasing for 24 hours with the caps off that leaving them off longer worked to increase quality or improve the juice.

As I may have said before, when using a crock pot or heated UC, fondue pots work too.... if you are off gasing leave caps off the first hour, then cap them for the duration of the heat steep. Its never failed me yet ridding those chemical or alcohol overtones and will hell tame floral scents. I used to hate tpa english tobacco cause to me it was very rose/flowery scented fresh mixed. Now I like it after it steeps.
Excellent! thanks for those pearls. I had my suspicions when my fruit flavours simply got worse after steeping like that. Cheers
 

flowerpots

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I have to counterpoint on some things mentioned, in my own newbie to DIY experience (and not newbie with pre-made vendor juices):

In my experience, heavy alcohol content in a mix can sometimes benefit from off-cap steeping for more than 24 hours. Does the flavor diminish? Probably to a degree. But, if you are not using heat and only the time method of steeping, then it's your only option, really. I have had single flavor test flavor batches that would not shake off the floral or chemical note, even with cap off, even with 1-2 weeks of steeping. Those may or may not benefit from heat steeping.

That said, I haven't tried heat steeping with cap-off yet. And I know some of you have done extensive steeping research, and I'm not minimizing or even arguing with those results.

Tobacco mixes can sometimes get better the longer it steeps, or with UC/heat combined (My UC heats the water, so it does both at the same time). Without UC/heat, I have had tobaccos take months to shine. Not all of them, but a few.

I do disagree that with clean nicotine, everything is vapeable right after mixing. Because it's not just the nicotine in question, it's the flavors themselves and distributing evenly throughout the bottle, as well as needing time to come to fruition. And I don't understand how people vary on this point. Except I guess it's the same as people liking steeped mixes at different times steeped, or people liking fresh spaghetti sauce, or leftover. Even my fruit mixes benefit from steeping. Not a long time, but a day to a week. The flavors just settle (to my palate).

What I am doing now that I have such clean nicotine though (thank you VT) is noticing I can vape a lower % of it, and also use lower %'s in a recipe. Some things are hype in vaping, but VT nic is NOT.

To lesson the chance of my nic oxidizing, I don't add it until my mix is done steeping to the point I feel it's ready.

______

P.S. Don't gong me...it's only a newbie's perspective.
 
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Ld3441

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Some good points @flowerpots.

Perhaps those that don't do any steeping don't vape tobaccos or the flavors that do require steeping. I think the clean nic does help the process. I mixed 3 tobaccos last weekend and they got 4 hours in the UC and have been sitting a week. 2 of the 3 should be ready but the third will take longer. How much longer I'm not sure yet but will give it another week before I sample it. It is not good until it has steeped but when it is ready it is some good stuff.

I mixed 6 samples tonight and will have them tested tomorrow. These don't require steeping but as you said will be better tomorrow.

I'd like to stress to anyone new at DIY, if you don't like a mix then shelf it. Try it again in a few weeks to a month and you might be surprised at the difference. This doesn't happen with them all though unfortunately. I have one tobacco that was not good at even one month steeping but at 2 months was awesome. I discovered this by accident when clearing out old mixes I didn't like. Doesn't hurt to give it one more try before you trash it.
 

buffaloguy

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I should have probably made a bigger point out of something flowerpots mentioned. Heat steeping is just a means to an end, and is somewhat based on preference. I came to the 4 hours timeframe because that is where I felt juice matured to the age of about 2 to 2.5 weeks.

Now that being said, that is where I prefer my juices to age to before I begin to vape most of them. There is a progression of change/maturity in a juice (talking primarialy tobaccos here) that happens beyond even heat steeping. If you feel 4 hours doesnt get you there, then go longer, and it will get you closer. For every 1 hour at 150° you can add about 4-5 days of normal steep time on average. OR, optionally let it sit in the cabinet for a bit.

Alot of what we do is based on taste preferences. How we get there is up to each vaper.
 

flowerpots

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Well said, buffaloguy :)
 

LadyBren

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I have a rice sock that I use. Just put some rice in a panty hose, tie the end up and
microwave (the first time) for about 1min. and then about 30 seconds after
that for glass bottles, plastic bottles do less heating time.
I re-do, two or three times. I just put the bottle in the middle of the sock, fold it up
and use a big rubber band to hold it together, then just sit it aside to let cool, shacking
once in awhile before cooling. It's so easy.
 

Lefty

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do you have a link that i can buy the cheap UV ? thanks before

I've been using the $30 model from Harbor Freight with good success. The timer is 3 mins but I just stretch a decent size rubber band around the lid so that it lines up with the button and slide a changeable screwdriver tip (or whatever you have handy) in between to hold it down. I run it about 45 min or so per run to avoid too much heat in the juice. I'll run complex flavors like tobacco for 3-4 hrs total time. I use glass bottles to avoid dampening the waves. For larger batches I use larger diameter bottles so that the juice level stays below the water line. I've done 240ml at once using a couple of empty Schweppes 10oz tonic water bottles.
You can fit them both in the unit nicely and keep the juice level below the water line. 45 min runs definitely exceed the design parameters but the unit has held up well for 4 or 5 months now. YMMV.
 

AmandaD

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I've been using the $30 model from Harbor Freight with good success. The timer is 3 mins but I just stretch a decent size rubber band around the lid so that it lines up with the button and slide a changeable screwdriver tip (or whatever you have handy) in between to hold it down. I run it about 45 min or so per run to avoid too much heat in the juice. I'll run complex flavors like tobacco for 3-4 hrs total time. I use glass bottles to avoid dampening the waves. For larger batches I use larger diameter bottles so that the juice level stays below the water line. I've done 240ml at once using a couple of empty Schweppes 10oz tonic water bottles.
You can fit them both in the unit nicely and keep the juice level below the water line. 45 min runs definitely exceed the design parameters but the unit has held up well for 4 or 5 months now. YMMV.

Why didn't I think of using those bottles? I have loads of them - terrific idea, thanks!
 

550HPWRX

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I personally have had great results using the ultrasonic cleaner.I purchsed from harbor freight I run 4 5 min cycles checking the water temp after each cycle the water gets warmer with each cycle.And I don't have the heat setting on. I never let the temp go above 100 deg it will ruin the juices from my experience.
 

M5amhan

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thanks for that write up @buffaloguy .. doing a crock pot batch right now, first time using a different method than closet steeping. opened the lid on the crock a second ago and a blast of fruity citrus smacked me in the face lol think its working
 

550HPWRX

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thanks for that write up @buffaloguy .. doing a crock pot batch right now, first time using a different method than closet steeping. opened the lid on the crock a second ago and a blast of fruity citrus smacked me in the face lol think its working
How much juice are you making in the crock pot?
 

M5amhan

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100ml the fruity citrus is just one of the flavors, stronger than the others. i think my low setting is hotter than 150 degrees though so i took it out after an hour and half and they are breathing now for the next hour
 

HowlinWolf

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Maybe I'm lucky in that the flavors I use are good to go right off the bat...and on the other hand I only make 5-6 different mixes or conbobalations of flavors (yeah I made that word up) so I'm never in a panic mode for juice right now. I have bottles and bottles and bottles of juice that have been ageing upwards of 4-6 months.
 

550HPWRX

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100ml the fruity citrus is just one of the flavors, stronger than the others. i think my low setting is hotter than 150 degrees though so i took it out after an hour and half and they are breathing now for the next hour
150 deg is too hot!
I go no more than 100 deg more like 90 deg how long were you steeping it at that150 deg temp? You can use a candy thermometer to keep a eye on the temp.
What was your VG PG ratio?
Did you stir it durning the process?
Let me know if it jells up on you or gets unusually thick?
I have another way of steeping using s frothy mixer for small sample batches to test that takes about 3 days for fruity flavors a bit longer for tobacco flavors.but it helps me gage the flavor much quicker than it would if you closet steep .
Then if its good then a I make a large batch
 

AmandaD

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150 deg is too hot!
I go no more than 100 deg more like 90 deg how long were you steeping it at that150 deg temp? You can use a candy thermometer to keep a eye on the temp.
What was your VG PG ratio?
Did you stir it durning the process?
Let me know if it jells up on you or gets unusually thick?
I have another way of steeping using s frothy mixer for small sample batches to test that takes about 3 days for fruity flavors a bit longer for tobacco flavors.but it helps me gage the flavor much quicker than it would if you closet steep .
Then if its good then a I make a large batch

150 degrees is not too hot. Several of us on ECF did a controlled test, and the nic level was measured before and after - no degradation. So, in fact, it was determined that 150 degrees was the optimum temperature for fast steeping!
 

550HPWRX

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I hope you did not burn your juice.
Let me know how it turned out when you start to vape it.
 

550HPWRX

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The three natural causes of nicotine degradation are( Heat ) (Air) and (ultraviolet light.) My personal experience with 90 deg to 100deg heat steeping had been ideal.
I hsve never had any problems at that temp.
 

M5amhan

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like i said im pretty sure my crock low temp was way too hot and it cant go any lower than that so i only left it in there for like an hour.. all my juice is max vg and it seemed very thin when i pulled them out but now back to normal. how would i even know if i burned my juice? never heard of that but i can say that my citrus flavor (mentholated) is not steeped at all lol maybe needs some time to finish naturally.. about to try the tobacco now
 

AmandaD

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You're not going to 'burn' your juice at 150 degrees! Many of us do it all the time without any ill effects LOL I get my crockpot to stay at 150 degrees by keeping it on low with the lid slightly popped.
 

550HPWRX

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Cooking anything too hot ruin it .
Its like over cooking food or boiling all of the nutrients out of vegetables
Low and slow is the key
Or try a hand held froth mixer and put juice in a small drinking glass and mix it until it clouds up then set it aside with a napkin on top of the glass do this twice a day if possible for a few days and see if you like those results.
 

AmandaD

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Have you tried the 4-hour crockpot method? It's awfully nice not to have to wait if you're impatient LOL Leaving a juice in a nonairtight container for several days is more likely to degrade the nic;)
 

550HPWRX

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I have not tried the crock pot method.

But the froth method I use I mix pg vg and flavoring .
And add nic a day or two later.and give it one more mix ..And that's it.
No matter what you do it will taste better with time....
 

550HPWRX

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@ Amanda D
How do you do the crock pot methed exactly?
I may try it if I can find a crock pot with a temp setting of 100 deg or less.
 

AmandaD

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Fill it up with water to the level of your juice, pop the tightly closed (preferably glass) bottle in there. I put mine on warm and crack the lid - this keeps my temperature pretty much around 150 degrees. Four hours works for juices that need it (many don't imo) - but tobaccos at least that. If it's a tobacco I tend to leave it alone for another 24 hours after it's come out. Oh, and a couple of times during that steeping I take it out, shake it, and pop the cap (be sure to put it back on before it goes back in the water). Occasionally I've left a tobacco all night, and it's been great. You can start it with heated water so it heats to the right temperature faster. For fruits/creams I may pop it in for an hour, and let it cool before vaping. Just depends how you like your juice! I rarely use over 6% flavoring and 6mg nic, so mine may not need as long as some with much higher flavoring/nic levels. It is important that you steep it with the nic in, since this affects the final flavor. I did find that with some TFA flavorings I needed to leave it alone for a couple of days after that for the flavors to settle down, but with Flavor Art I don't find this.
 

550HPWRX

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Thanks Amanda
This sounds interesting I will give it a try.
 

buffaloguy

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The three natural causes of nicotine degradation are( Heat ) (Air) and (ultraviolet light.) My personal experience with 90 deg to 100deg heat steeping had been ideal.
I hsve never had any problems at that temp.

I put directions earlier in this thread.

And you wont have problems at that temp, but it is indeed too low for optimal heat/speed steeping. I spent over six months and tons of samples before I even released my findings on ecf, when common thinking was.that 120-125°F was the max temp that should be used because the nic would lose potency. Its just NOT so. Nicotine concentration alone is stable in my tests past 200°F in fact.

For further confirmation, controlled and tested samples were done by ecf member MikePietro on ecf with UC, crockpot, and control samples. Temp was controlled via a suis vide(sp) controller at 150 for 4 hours. Nic levels were tested before and after for all samples as well. Tests indicated that 150 was optimal, no nic concentration loss has been noted. No loss of flavor intensity noted. Blind samples were sent to many forum members for blind taste testing and UC and crock pot results were nearly identical and both were far and away better than "closet" steeped control samples.

100°F will help, but it is not ideal. Frothing using a mixer and exposing it to lots of oxygen will do more to degrade your juice than any other method I can think of. Air is the biggest enemy of nicotine and will add a stanky funk to it real fast as well as reduce its nic content depending on how agressive you are. Breathing a juice is sometimes necessary, as stated before, frothing it is imo a big mistake.
 
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Huckleberried

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I'm in agreement with the temps at 150. I also did a nic test and there was no effect of the strength of the nicotine. My crock pot got as high at 170 one time. I tested that, and it also had no ill effect on nic strength. Or flavor.
 

550HPWRX

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Does that crock temp work well with any PG /VG ratio?
Do you set the juice bottles directly on the bottom of the crock pot bowl?
Or do you have a basket under them so they don't touch bottom of the crock pot Bowl?
 

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