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KingPin!

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Success comes from the good assistance and tips were getting from everyone in this thread.
Completely agree with this you guys in this thread have really helped me ...thanks so much

nice work @KingPin!

its been a pretty exciting week here on 'post your builds', casual readers might start to think aliens are the easy ones with all the success floating around here lately...

:cheers:

Not yet for me still don't have a coil to show for my 6 hours or so effort so far ...aliens are not easy

Tried a staple coil today just to have a break from my failed attempts at aliens ...ok ribbon wire is so bloody fiddly to work with! anyway short of my story is I went to try a framed staple (6x 0.4mmx0.1mm kanthal cores, 2x 28g kanthal frames, 38g NI80 wrap) couldn't get the frames to sit right so dumped them, managed to wrap the cores perfect 1st time was so happy then I slapped them on the coil master jig and it went horribly wrong my lovely staple turned into a pile of useless :poop: how the heck do you wrap them?

As you can imagine the air was blue had just wasted the best part of an hour and half
 

mach1ne

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:gaah: i hate that. staple coils are pretty sensitive when it comes time to wrap them up. i seem to have the most success when i work within an inch or so of the jig itself. with most other coils i just hold the furthest end of the wire and wrap it around the jig. with staples i do something closer to pressing the wire onto the jig and rolling the jig onto the wire, if that makes any sense.
 

Carambrda

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I have an expensive Milwaukee that I was trying to use. It was the same damn way (with a concave chuck) ... I had to go get a cheap ass Black & Decker with the good chuck. This thing is working perfectly. She gets a little hot after a full out 36" run, but she'll get over it. She's supposed to get hot and sweaty... :devil:
Milwaukee M18 FPD-502X Fuel is what I use. It can go up to 2000 rpm.
cc52aa56a8189278486be0fa34469b5e-image.jpeg
 

PhantomOp

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Milwaukee M18 FPD-502X Fuel is what I use. It can go up to 2000 rpm.
cc52aa56a8189278486be0fa34469b5e-image.jpeg
Yea, those Milwaukee drills are kick ass for speed and torque. Kick those bad boys into second gear and you can rip your arm off when running hammer drill on a 2" lag.
 

mach1ne

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just more chores. had to rebuild the boreas tonight. 28ka1/38ss316 aliens .18ohms
Capture.PNG
Capture1.PNG

edit - i forgot to mention that i tried a technique from the video @b_d_builders posted a few pages ago for 'alien makers'. the guy didnt stretch his decore at all, he just found the right tension to hold it as he watched it wrap up and then held that until he was done. the alien maker thing he was using slid along with the wraps so he didnt have to stop and move it. i use a paperclip that i have to slide out of the way, so i made a few mistakes as a result of that stop/start. i got two good coils and two bad ones out of the stretch of wire i made. not sure if i am convinced to switch to this, but it really drove home the point that there is no such thing as under stretched decore. you can compensate for zero stretched decore with tension and still get aliens. i wonder if i could learn to choose between mohawks and aliens on the same wire just based on tension....an inch of this, an inch of that....voila :cheers:
 
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Dutch0hms

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just more chores. had to rebuild the boreas tonight. 28ka1/38ss316 aliens .18ohms
View attachment 76073
View attachment 76074

edit - i forgot to mention that i tried a technique from the video @b_d_builders posted a few pages ago for 'alien makers'. the guy didnt stretch his decore at all, he just found the right tension to hold it as he watched it wrap up and then held that until he was done. the alien maker thing he was using slid along with the wraps so he didnt have to stop and move it. i use a paperclip that i have to slide out of the way, so i made a few mistakes as a result of that stop/start. i got two good coils and two bad ones out of the stretch of wire i made. not sure if i am convinced to switch to this, but it really drove home the point that there is no such thing as under stretched decore. you can compensate for zero stretched decore with tension and still get aliens. i wonder if i could learn to choose between mohawks and aliens on the same wire just based on tension....an inch of this, an inch of that....voila :cheers:
Zero/Understretch is the way to go ;)
 

KingPin!

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just more chores. had to rebuild the boreas tonight. 28ka1/38ss316 aliens .18ohms
View attachment 76073
View attachment 76074

edit - i forgot to mention that i tried a technique from the video @b_d_builders posted a few pages ago for 'alien makers'. the guy didnt stretch his decore at all, he just found the right tension to hold it as he watched it wrap up and then held that until he was done. the alien maker thing he was using slid along with the wraps so he didnt have to stop and move it. i use a paperclip that i have to slide out of the way, so i made a few mistakes as a result of that stop/start. i got two good coils and two bad ones out of the stretch of wire i made. not sure if i am convinced to switch to this, but it really drove home the point that there is no such thing as under stretched decore. you can compensate for zero stretched decore with tension and still get aliens. i wonder if i could learn to choose between mohawks and aliens on the same wire just based on tension....an inch of this, an inch of that....voila :cheers:
Oooooh differeny technique I'll have to watch it;)

Awesome aliens there what mine hopefully will look like with those gauges ..,I'm envious right now:D
 

scarecrowjenkins

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View attachment 76308 first attempt at the alien framed staple coil.. Not perfect but still pretty happy with it.
Made it using...
2x 26g kanthal
6..or 7..or 8x 0.5x0.1 ribbon kanthal
35g n80 alien wrap.

Not bad! Try using one size larger for your initial clapton, it should come together much easier for you


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ImposingGorilla

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Not bad! Try using one size larger for your initial clapton, it should come together much easier for you


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Ahhhh, that would make sense, I kept having to stretch the alien wire out a tiny bit at a time to get it to work. By the time I'd set the rest of it up though I figured I was too committed to stop. Cheers for the advice bud.
 

scarecrowjenkins

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Ahhhh, that would make sense, I kept having to stretch the alien wire out a tiny bit at a time to get it to work. By the time I'd set the rest of it up though I figured I was too committed to stop. Cheers for the advice bud.

No worries, i've been making a lot of these lately haha. For a 10 or 12 ply/28g i use 24g. 26 will work as well, but you get a much nicer wave with a larger initial clapton. I'm about to post a shot, so you can see what i mean. It's a trial and error process, but you wanna make sure that whatever you're stuffing inside the alien is the same width or a tiny bit smaller than 3x the original core wire.


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scarecrowjenkins

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36259fa2417668bba580249df5a55409.jpg

•Slightly used (3 days) Framed Staple Aliens in the Recoil RDA.
•10x.3mm/2x28g/38g
•I built these because i filmed a new video for Grimm Green's "What i've been vaping" jingle. I was gonna use a video montage of the building process so i never actually took any pre-fire photos, but i ended up just using a shot of vapor shooting outta the cap along with a sped up shot of some random vape gear and instruments on my porch.
•ANYWAYS i'm still getting to know this atty, and after a few days i love it. Its kinda nice to revisit the traditional 4 post style deck. I went with 24g for my initial clapton to get a nice harsh wave in the alien wraps. I used a 3mm inner diameter and had no problems at all fitting em in here. I have a feeling though that a 2.5 or 2.7mm would have been better for this atty for purposes of airflow. I guess i won't know until i try it out and compare the two. With that being said the flavor on this atty is outstanding. Currently waiting on my wire shipment, so a used shot is all i have for now haha.



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ImposingGorilla

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No worries, i've been making a lot of these lately haha. For a 10 or 12 ply/28g i use 24g. 26 will work as well, but you get a much nicer wave with a larger initial clapton. I'm about to post a shot, so you can see what i mean. It's a trial and error process, but you wanna make sure that whatever you're stuffing inside the alien is the same width or a tiny bit smaller than 3x the original core wire.


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Yea I tried the normal staple coil and I've failed horrifically every time. Tried the framed staple coil and it was soo much easier to wrap and looked perfect. Just checked out that shot of your alien framed staple.... Those waves are awesome! Gonna have to give it another shot over the next couple of days.
 

KingPin!

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just more chores. had to rebuild the boreas tonight. 28ka1/38ss316 aliens .18ohms
View attachment 76073
View attachment 76074

edit - i forgot to mention that i tried a technique from the video @b_d_builders posted a few pages ago for 'alien makers'. the guy didnt stretch his decore at all, he just found the right tension to hold it as he watched it wrap up and then held that until he was done. the alien maker thing he was using slid along with the wraps so he didnt have to stop and move it. i use a paperclip that i have to slide out of the way, so i made a few mistakes as a result of that stop/start. i got two good coils and two bad ones out of the stretch of wire i made. not sure if i am convinced to switch to this, but it really drove home the point that there is no such thing as under stretched decore. you can compensate for zero stretched decore with tension and still get aliens. i wonder if i could learn to choose between mohawks and aliens on the same wire just based on tension....an inch of this, an inch of that....voila :cheers:

Watched that vid that technique he used looks soooo much easier than what I've tried to date I want those alien makers! Can't find them in the uk though :( bet shipping costs a fortune have contacted them to find out lol
 

b_d_builders

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Watched that vid that technique he used looks soooo much easier than what I've tried to date I want those alien makers! Can't find them in the uk though :( bet shipping costs a fortune have contacted them to find out lol

Pretty sure there is a UK supplier try messaging him on IG or email him he is pretty responsive.


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mach1ne

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Watched that vid that technique he used looks soooo much easier than what I've tried to date I want those alien makers! Can't find them in the uk though :( bet shipping costs a fortune have contacted them to find out lol
not stretching the decore seems helpful. sometimes that thing ends up being 12 feet long and can be problematic (depending on your building area and pets and stuff). i only got 50% of the coils i was making though, when i normally dont make mistakes at all. i didnt have the alien makers, maybe thats why, but i dont see a point in buying them so i can get better than 50% success rate, if i can already get 100% 'the old way' that didnt require me buying anything.

-spool tamers work automatically and quite easily, until you leave them unattended (all it takes is one bad wrap on your spool of wire and the whole thing blows up). so if you have to sit there and watch it, or hold the spool on the right angle, you might as well sit there and do it manually

-clothes peg is the same situation as spool tamer in my experience. if you have to hold it or even watch it the whole time, just do it by hand

-Daedalus coil kit drill is quiet, but not quiet enough to replace my silent hand drill for late night building, and its barely faster than my hand drill and much slower than my real drill. it cant handle long wires either. i tried to do 18 inches of 28/38 decore for aliens and had to sit there moving the spool holder by hand to keep tension, and got some loose wraps as a result. can do better manually. the 'magic clapton tools' are nice, and are the only piece of this kit that i use, but they are barely better than paper clips/ribbon sliders/keyrings and other options most people have laying around the house already...

in my experience, all these jigs and helpers and stuff just stop you from learning how to do things and take control away from you.

/end.rant (im grumpy and tired lol)
 

Th3T

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Hey everyone, been checking out a lot of the great posts here and some fantastic builds! I'm working on the staple staggered fused but I can only get a few inches before the ribbon twists on the inside or my frames sort of shift out of place. I think it may be my prep from reading a few pages back, I have been making one long piece of staggered 28g using the button trick (thanks to coil mother fudger on youtube, works amazing) today I'm going to try 2 separate pieces. Its difficult to get the tension tight on the staggered frames. Ended up with enough to make a single coil with a few gaps but practice makes perfect! specs: 28g N80 frames, 4ply .4mm KA1, 36g N80. I find I'm much better at aliens than staggered builds but really want to open up the possible variations of staggered builds.staplestagfused.jpg
 

Th3T

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Is there a way to do this without those alien makers? has anyone tried it? --- I was thinking of f*cking up today and trying it. :D
A key ring is what I use for aliens, but you can also you use a hair clip, bobby pin, or some ribbon wire to stabilize your cores. Only thing is they don't move with your wrap like those alien makers do which means you have to pause and move your brace down which can be troublesome. Also I stretch the decore but I usually understretch it and just add more tension when needed. Saw a vid of a ''no stretch alien though''
 

PhantomOp

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A key ring is what I use for aliens, but you can also you use a hair clip, bobby pin, or some ribbon wire to stabilize your cores. Only thing is they don't move with your wrap like those alien makers do which means you have to pause and move your brace down which can be troublesome.
Yea, I used the keyring trick on the coils pictured up a bit (my very first two Alien builds). It worked out "ok" ... having to stop and start for the keyring borked up the coil every damn time.
 

whiteowl84

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You don't need an alien tool thing. It just needs to be set up right. I've been doing it with out anything to hold the cores flat since I realized they wouldn't do anything for me if there was slack in the outer cores.
The less you stretch the more tension it takes to fuse. More tension means more twist. Most people tend to stretch less as they step up in the gauges.


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PhantomOp

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You don't need an alien tool thing. It just needs to be set up right. I've been doing it with out anything to hold the cores flat since I realized they wouldn't do anything for me if there was slack in the outer cores.
The less you stretch the more tension it takes to fuse. More tension means more twist. Most people tend to stretch less as they step up in the gauges.


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I rewatched M.Terk's video last night and was planning on doing the setup and everything his way. My last two builds were "near" his setup, I just missed a few steps of it. And this time I'm not going to be sitting in my cloth chair. That bitch is getting moved out of the way... damn snagging of the wire.
 

KingPin!

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Yea, I used the keyring trick on the coils pictured up a bit (my very first two Alien builds). It worked out "ok" ... having to stop and start for the keyring borked up the coil every damn time.

And it's for this exact reason I was interested in the slidy alien maker things just means I can keep going ...and whilst I'm learning it's one less thing to worry about... if something makes it easier why wouldn't I want to try it?

Being they don't have them in the UK and shipping costs to much doesn't matter now anyway might try Sugru and mould something myself
 

USMCotaku

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And it's for this exact reason I was interested in the slidy alien maker things just means I can keep going ...and whilst I'm learning it's one less thing to worry about... if something makes it easier why wouldn't I want to try it?

Being they don't have them in the UK and shipping costs to much doesn't matter now anyway might try Sugru and mould something myself
looks like it wouldn't be too hard to make some yourself. Get some large beads, put them in a vice, and drill out the hole to the dimensions of your core wires...presto, cheap and easy alien maker
 

KingPin!

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looks like it wouldn't be too hard to make some yourself. Get some large beads, put them in a vice, and drill out the hole to the dimensions of your core wires...presto, cheap and easy alien maker

another thing I might try instead are crimps don't know if anyone has tried these before? ... I use them for my trace wires when predator fishing work a treat and cheap as chips

So at the drill end line the core wires up and crimp with one of these) gives the drill something to bite onto as well)

Easy-font-b-Catch-b-font-100pcs-White-Oval-Aluminum-Fishing-Tube-Fishing-Wire-Pipe-Crimp.jpg


Up the other end could use one of these terminal crimps and attach straight onto the swivel

RNBL-1-25-3-5-wire-cable.jpg_350x350.jpg


Might not need anything in the middle as all 3 wires will have equal tension?

Obviously would have to find the right ones for what I'm trying to do at the time staple or alien ...do you guys think this would be a good idea?
 

Carambrda

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Hey everyone, been checking out a lot of the great posts here and some fantastic builds! I'm working on the staple staggered fused but I can only get a few inches before the ribbon twists on the inside or my frames sort of shift out of place. I think it may be my prep from reading a few pages back, I have been making one long piece of staggered 28g using the button trick (thanks to coil mother fudger on youtube, works amazing) today I'm going to try 2 separate pieces. Its difficult to get the tension tight on the staggered frames. Ended up with enough to make a single coil with a few gaps but practice makes perfect! specs: 28g N80 frames, 4ply .4mm KA1, 36g N80. I find I'm much better at aliens than staggered builds but really want to open up the possible variations of staggered builds.View attachment 76593
You can do a single long spaced clapton, but then cut it in half (as opposed to just folding it around at your swivel). In the vid the little piece of wire that's tied to the button is on the drill side of the lead. A simple variation is to attach the top part of the little piece of wire on the swivel side of the lead (instead of on the drill side) so only the bottom part of it will be on the drill side. That's exactly how I did it. Also, you can easily prevent gaps by making sure the lead stays angled very slightly towards the drill, and I know doing that takes a little extra effort, but with the spool dangling underneath the table you can actually just let the edge of the table do most of the work for you. So that's also exactly how I did it. As for the ribbon twisting or the frames shifting out of place, use magnifying spectacles so you'll notice everything on time. (This is what Ohmboy Josh also recommended here.) To get the ribbon and frames back into place, I used two small pieces of masking tape (one on each side, but without them sticking against eachother so they were still easy to gently remove). It's all just a matter of time and patience. Put the drill in reverse to undo errors. Do it 250 times if that's what it takes to get it perfect. I love these coils so much I'm not even sure I want to try aliens again. Fraliens... maybe. Maybe not. :p
 

Th3T

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You can do a single long spaced clapton, but then cut it in half (as opposed to just folding it around at your swivel). In the vid the little piece of wire that's tied to the button is on the drill side of the lead. A simple variation is to attach the top part of the little piece of wire on the swivel side of the lead (instead of on the drill side) so only the bottom part of it will be on the drill side. That's exactly how I did it. Also, you can easily prevent gaps by making sure the lead stays angled very slightly towards the drill, and I know doing that takes a little extra effort, but with the spool dangling underneath the table you can actually just let the edge of the table do most of the work for you. So that's also exactly how I did it. As for the ribbon twisting or the frames shifting out of place, use magnifying spectacles so you'll notice everything on time. (This is what Ohmboy Josh also recommended here.) To get the ribbon and frames back into place, I used two small pieces of masking tape (one on each side, but without them sticking against eachother so they were still easy to gently remove). It's all just a matter of time and patience. Put the drill in reverse to undo errors. Do it 250 times if that's what it takes to get it perfect. I love these coils so much I'm not even sure I want to try aliens again. Fraliens... maybe. Maybe not. :p
Thanks for the tips, I'm all setup to do my staggered claptons now. Don't have access to spectacles atm but I saw that vid and am definitely interested in getting some. Using some reading glasses today heh better than nothing. Will try the masking tape thing and see how it goes, I was trying to use more ribbon wrapped around it but if I wrapped it too tight it would squish the ribbon out and too loose and it doesn't help at all. Fraliens are great I recommend trying them at least once I'm using a 28g framed 6ply .4 with 40g in my goon and its amazing, but then I haven't tried the SSFC yet so I cant say which is better or if there will be much difference.
 

KingPin!

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IMG_0928.JPG Well had another go today all freehand ... 3x28g core, 38g wrap finally enough to make a coil! Mounted on the oumier white bone mini. Came out at 0.28 ohm

well happy now just need to make enough for dual coils!
 

mach1ne

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Is there a way to do this without those alien makers? has anyone tried it?
the problem is core twist. the alien makers, ribbon sliders etc all prevent that. if you make shorter pieces of alien (one coil at a time) and use smaller wrap that stretches easier(like @whiteowl84 said) you might be able to zero-stretch your decore and not have to use anything to stabilize your cores/get in the way of your wraps.

I was thinking of f*cking up today and trying it.
this is a great way to think :cheers:

having to stop and start for the keyring borked up the coil every damn time.
i find that if i stretch my decore out all the way, i have a much easier time starting/stopping to move my paperclip. i can do that without error every time now. i can stop and walk away from an alien build and come back later and still not fuck up the restart if my core is stretched. when i tried with no stretch, i fucked up almost every time i stopped. i guess if i spent the same amount of time learning this, as i did learning that, i might be equally as good...but for me right now, i prefer to stretch and be able to just glide it on with no tension and full tilt on the drill.

if something makes it easier why wouldn't I want to try it?
true. my rant above was because a lot of these things introduce new problems to overcome with the help they give. if im going to overcome a problem at all, i want to overcome the root problem (need more practice), not a problem introduced by a potential solution (jig works ok, but fails sometimes and needs monitoring). the alien makers definitely look like they are better than paper clips and ribbon sliders, but its possible that by the time they come in the mail, youll have enough practice not to need them any more...as evidenced by the above post where you make a perfect coil on your second (that i know of) attempt :cheers: nicely done
 

KingPin!

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View attachment 76625

Stapled Helix Staple? Dunno what to call it really, but the Flavor on it is killer! Specs are 30/36g Twisted Claptons, 8 ply .4/36g Staple and 36g Helix .14 ohms. Alot of 36g was used on this LOL :p

Lovely build matey that last wrap to the left bet you were like you WILL fit you bstd lol

Got to try that one at some point hehe
 

KingPin!

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the problem is core twist. the alien makers, ribbon sliders etc all prevent that. if you make shorter pieces of alien (one coil at a time) and use smaller wrap that stretches easier(like @whiteowl84 said) you might be able to zero-stretch your decore and not have to use anything to stabilize your cores/get in the way of your wraps.


this is a great way to think :cheers:


i find that if i stretch my decore out all the way, i have a much easier time starting/stopping to move my paperclip. i can do that without error every time now. i can stop and walk away from an alien build and come back later and still not fuck up the restart if my core is stretched. when i tried with no stretch, i fucked up almost every time i stopped. i guess if i spent the same amount of time learning this, as i did learning that, i might be equally as good...but for me right now, i prefer to stretch and be able to just glide it on with no tension and full tilt on the drill.


true. my rant above was because a lot of these things introduce new problems to overcome with the help they give. if im going to overcome a problem at all, i want to overcome the root problem (need more practice), not a problem introduced by a potential solution (jig works ok, but fails sometimes and needs monitoring). the alien makers definitely look like they are better than paper clips and ribbon sliders, but its possible that by the time they come in the mail, youll have enough practice not to need them any more...as evidenced by the above post where you make a perfect coil on your second (that i know of) attempt :cheers: nicely done

Yeah I know matey no offense taken at all I know it's best to learn the trade the proper way...i instinctively always try to see if there is an easier way that's all...I may give these other things a shot just to try them out if it makes my building easier jobs a gooden

By the way lovely flavour from the alien very smooth see what the fuss is about now
 

mach1ne

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Yeah I know matey no offense taken at all I know it's best to learn the trade the proper way...i instinctively always try to see if there is an easier way that's all...I may give these other things a shot just to try them out if it makes my building easier jobs a gooden

By the way lovely flavour from the alien very smooth see what the fuss is about now
yeah man i am that way too. i just bought the daedalus kit, i have tried making and buying almost everything...just sharing my experiences that out of all of it, the only thing i use other than swivels and a drill are the 'magic clapton tools' that came with daedalus, i have only used them twice, and they are barely any better than a paper clip lol

the only thing i have seen that i havnt bought yet that i know is a good investment is the swvl or spinLT. i tried to order a spinLT and they dont ship to canada, and i dont have instagram to get in touch with the swvl guy...also those chuckie clamps look great, or the hand vise that goes in the drill chuck. been thinking about trying to make or purchase something like those next.


edit - they do ship to canada now^
 
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Guess12

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Holy hell! Most of you guys are crazy good at building! Coils are getting to be like little art pieces!
I get to the point of almost ripping my hair out on just plain ol' claptons lol
Would love to purchase a couple coils if anyone is interested in making them for me! I do have a few questions, so if that's something you'd like to help me out with shoot me a PM!
 

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