Post your builds

[CrazyChef v2.0]

I never assumed it was a hotter (or cooler) vape. I was told back when I first started to learn to build that SS ramped up quicker and I never really questioned it.

 

[Carambrda]

Okay, so I decided to do a test of N80 vs. SS316L for ramp up. We all seem to have differing opinions, with mine being that SS316L will ramp up faster.

So, I have 2 (almost) identical setups:

• Coils: 22g, 3.0mm ID, 10/11 wraps - one is SS316L, the other N80. Leads cut to identical length, and no further trimming before installation.
• RDAs: Vandy Vape Pulse 22
• Mods: Cartel Revenant 160 - one is the BLAQ, one is the SS version. Identical chipsets.

Coils/RDAs:

Mods:

Coils installed:

RDAs on Mods - N80 on the BLAQ, SS316L on the SS

The verdict:

Black and Watt became friends in real life, too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Black

 

[Carambrda]

My question is: why would both you and ray assume the ss Ramps faster and gives a hotter vapor? I have no experience vaping on or building with as.

It's because when they talk they produce too much fixed air.

My hypothesis: the ss is made of denser particles and where n80 may reach its melting point faster the ss is able to get hotter and retain the heat more efficiently than the n80.
Or maybe I'm off in left field



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Actually N80 has a higher density than SS (similar to how lead also has a higher density than iron) so your hypothesis is wrong. Joseph Black (see the wikipedia article I linked in my previous post) showed that "different substances have different specific heats".

 

[Carambrda]

They were pretty much identical ramp up times on the 2 Purges, even switched the atties on both just to make sure.

To be fair, it should also be noted the resistance of the coil build also affects the voltage sag of the battery on the mech. Mooch didn't provide pulsed current graphs for the Samsung 25R so we don't know how far below 4.2 volts the voltage sags with either coil build each time when you hit the fire button on the mech, but we do know on the mech the SS coil at .35 ohms is drawing noticeably more amps than the N80 coil at .47 ohms (Ohm's law) so as a result the SS coil is draining the battery faster, receiving higher watts as a result from that whilst at the same time also noticeably failing to translate higher watts to faster ramp up, but presumably still giving a warmer vape nevertheless (as well as causing different potential side effects for different people, like, a metallic taste vs not, and, in some reported cases, an allergic reaction vs not).

 

[raymo2u]

Actually so is he.

You basically confirmed everything I said but gave one exception...I stand corrected but the information given was still as true when I stated it.

Just to reiterate....and please dont take my words out of context, read it and read again if necessary, these are my opinions are yours may not be the same but Im not new to all of this and I mean what I say.

The arguments made for my regulated mod comment. I was stating that a regulated mod can make any and all coils give a similar vape, its just a matter of adjusting the power to your coil, at the same wattage you will see differences in the coil but its likely you will adjust the power so the new coil will behave similarly to the last coil. Mechanical mods make it so the coils themselves make all the difference, and the slightest change can be felt. This was my argument. Of course different regulated mods will behave differently from others. The power output will feel different than other brand boxes but changing a core wire or two doesnt make as much difference because in most cases you will adjust the power to make the vape fit your needs.

@Carambrda
I stated I was using Mechanical Mods and thats why SS would ramp hotter and faster (I made sure I stated that, twice). With the same build the SS will feel warmer. Try it yourself. Make a 4x28g/36g Alien, one out of SS and one out of N80. This is how most people build, they dont usually try to match resistance when making a build with a alternative material, they will build with the same sized wire and in that aspect the SS will always heat faster due to resistance being lower on a mech that has a strict outline for voltage output. Im not talking nonsensical bullshit. Im not going to get into the technical aspect because I dont have to to prove my point, anyone that simply tries this will afterwards agree.

26650s in general (ALL but one single cell) have higher internal resistance, and are no better than most 20a CD 18650s (albeit in capacity)

Calling a spade a spade will work 99.99/100 times but there will always be that one spade that goes above and beyond, that one spade is usually not the majority so its not included when speaking in generalized terms. If your going to pick words out of context then anything could be made to look "uninformed".

This isnt a battle of who's more informed or who's clueless, we are sharing information and most of the time I dont have time to expel every aspect of a generalized area. 26650 cells suck...They are overweight, large, and dont have anymore go than its smaller counterpart. Its 20700 brother is smaller, has almost as much capacity, has lower internal resistance and most have a decent amp output. Using the one single 26650 with decent specs does not mean they all function the same way. So if you must have 26650 be sure its the Ijoy. Of course there are good and bad cells in every size, you should always do your research to find one that suits your needs, for those of you who havent looked over Mooch's results I would advise to do so before buying another cell.

As said Im not here to argue, Im just trying to help. The condescending dickish remarks are for the birds.

 

[Fudgey Finger]

@raymo2u I am still confused about what you are saying about coils. If they vape the same with adjustments to the wattage, then there is no point to build anything more than a single core plain coil. I think I have to be misunderstanding something about that because there is no way a fused Clapton can come close to achieving the flavor of most of my staple varieties. Unless that's all in my head and I just need to adjust the wattage to get a fused Clapton to perform the same as an SSFC.

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[EndDetour]

If you look up that kidney puncher private label rated it at 20A continuous but only tested it at 30A output and it didn't fail once. You very well may be objectively correct that it's outdated tech, but I'm gonna use that outdated tech til it dies like a vcr that's played Debbie does Dallas one too many times. I am curious about ramp time on my stingray x 18650 vs the boss. Said it would be here Monday...and those fuckers lied to me. THEY LIED!!!!


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[Fudgey Finger]

The SS wrap just transfers the heat (energy) away from the cores faster than the N80 wrap does, thereby causing the cores to heat up slower when compared to using the N80 wrap. It means slower heating of the juice that's trapped between the cores and wrap. But you're also forgetting that heat energy is not the same thing as temperature. Look up the "specific heat" (also referred to as "specific heat capacity") for both metal types. If we can assume that both the thickness and the length of the wrap wire are the same, then logically the volume must be the same, but the mass and the density are not. Therefore, we have to convert "specific heat" to "volumetric heat capacity". Volumetric heat capacity equals specific heat multiplied by density. So, because the SS wrap requires more heat energy from the cores before it reaches the same temperate as the N80 wrap, the SS wrap takes longer to reach that same temperature. Finally, because the heat energy that's coming from the cores can only enter the wrap via the wrap's surface, the lower thermal conductivity of N80 causes the N80 wrap's surface to heat up even faster still, i.e., the N80 transfers the heat away from its own surface slower.

Now, because the N80 wrap causes BOTH its own surface AND that of the cores to rise in temperature faster compared to using the SS wrap, the juice starts to evaporate from these surfaces faster compared to using the SS wrap.

Thanks for that. So the ss does transfer heat faster though, right? The n80 wrap will heat quicker because of its specific heat capacity, but on the other side of the coin the ss will cool off quicker when heated to the same temperature. Is that statement correct?

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[raymo2u]

@raymo2u I am still confused about what you are saying about coils. If they vape the same with adjustments to the wattage, then there is no point to build anything more than a single core plain coil. I think I have to be misunderstanding something about that because there is no way a fused Clapton can come close to achieving the flavor of most of my staple varieties. Unless that's all in my head and I just need to adjust the wattage to get a fused Clapton to perform the same as an SSFC.

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You are correct, a single wire coil with 5 wraps versus a SSFC with 5 wraps you will see a difference through multiple variables like RDA chamber space taken up from coils surface area, wicking, wattage and resistance. But you could add 10 wraps to that single coil to give it a similar span in surface area and pump enough wattage into it so that the vape is very similar to the SSFC. Flavor is subjective, perception also varies but doing a blind test, the felt changes are negligible (again with the power adjusted so they heat up relatively similar)...My point was a Regulated mod can make most coils vape similarly in comparison to a mech where every change in a coil is noticeable....this is why building was a thing...because people using tube mods wanted a better vape and used different wires to control the vape.

When building for a mech you can control exactly how a coil will heat up, wick, cool down, you can even do this to every wrap with a hybrid coil. With a regulated mod, unless set at 3.8V-4V the vape can be suited to fit your needs by simply pushing buttons. This isnt a bad thing, it makes just about every coil useful.

 

[Fudgey Finger]

You are correct, a single wire coil with 5 wraps versus a SSFC with 5 wraps you will see a difference through multiple variables like RDA chamber space taken up from coils surface area, wicking, wattage and resistance. But you could add 10 wraps to that single coil to give it a similar span in surface area and pump enough wattage into it so that the vape is very similar to the SSFC. Flavor is subjective, perception also varies but doing a blind test, the felt changes are negligible (again with the power adjusted so they heat up relatively similar)...My point was a Regulated mod can make most coils vape similarly in comparison to a mech where every change in a coil is noticeable....this is why building was a thing...because people using tube mods wanted a better vape and used different wires to control the vape.

When building for a mech you can control exactly how a coil will heat up, wick, cool down, you can even do this to every wrap with a hybrid coil. With a regulated mod, unless set at 3.8V-4V the vape can be suited to fit your needs by simply pushing buttons. This isnt a bad thing, it makes just about every coil useful.

This is really discouraging to hear. Why am I spending all of this time working on my coil building game if the end result is the same as if I just add wraps to a single wire. I thought I was getting better vapes from some of the coils I've been building, but I guess I just needed to add more wraps with a single strand and I can get the same experience.

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[KarmicRage]

Don't be too discouraged as I think that's a little too simplified. I personally think it's down to how the coil wicks too. A straight wire build may give a similar vape to more complex coils but not all of them. For instances an alien build or a staggered fused Clapton will draw more juice into the coil and in my opinion give a better mouthful of vapour. I haven't done an amazing amount of playing around and certainly not upto the standards of Raymo and whiteowl but I do believe aliens and staggered fused claptons works better than straight wire of any type.

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[Jriley]

This is really discouraging to hear. Why am I spending all of this time working on my coil building game if the end result is the same as if I just add wraps to a single wire. I thought I was getting better vapes from some of the coils I've been building, but I guess I just needed to add more wraps with a single strand and I can get the same experience.

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Haha ... Your doing it for the wrong reason first of all. If you think I spend 100+ a month on wire alone because "I can't find a good vape" you got this all fuckedddd up.
Let's answer your question, because it's your vape and your perception thats why your doing it.
if all you use is regulated mods then make you some aliens and be happy... If you want to explore and see how far you can go then DO IT FOR YOU, we all do this because it's addicting.... Started with swivels and fused claptons then you said "well I could try this next...." , and once you start your homies push you to go further.

What is it your trying to accomplish man, crazy builds? Or back to fused claptons because that's good enough? Who the fuck here does that in life...
Best wishes to you

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[raymo2u]

No one here uses straight wire and I do agree that more complex wires have different attributes to make a better experience, you can manipulate the coils wicking properties and more by changing what they are wrapped with.
You shouldnt be into building in search of a better experience or all is lost, its a experience in itself, the work is fun and the small accomplishments make your day and not to mention the community on the building side is some of the best people Ive ever talked to.

Aliens, Multicore Aliens, Alien Framed staples and Alien Staggs are what I would consider the peak of flavor and IMO you wont find much better BUT that shouldnt stop you from your build journey...It should put you up to find something better, prove me wrong and you will gain a ton of helpful learning while doing it. Building is a outlet for creativity and imagination, thats a good enough reason to continue to do it.

 

[KarmicRage]

I used to use straight wire as my first rebuilds were of the old kanger bottom coils. That's how I got into rebuilding, started off with twisted wire and claptons and went from there. I agree it is a journey in and of itself, same with diy juice making, not doing that to replicate recipes I've tried but to find something that absolutely works for me. Operative words are for me, everyone's opinions and advice will be slightly different but they all intend for you to find what's best for you.

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[MrMeowgi]

This is really discouraging to hear. Why am I spending all of this time working on my coil building game if the end result is the same as if I just add wraps to a single wire. I thought I was getting better vapes from some of the coils I've been building, but I guess I just needed to add more wraps with a single strand and I can get the same experience.

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Maybe instead of single strand just run parallel. But I can't get a fused clap down so that may be why I stick with parallel and premades

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[EndDetour]

Maybe instead of single strand just run parallel. But I can't get a fused clap down so that may be why I stick with parallel and premades

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Keep trying. Have patience and you'll get it. It's a matter of finding your own rhythm and pace. Forge your own path. What wire are you using(gauge and material)? And what problems are you having?


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[MrMeowgi]

Keep trying. Have patience and you'll get it. It's a matter of finding your own rhythm and pace. Forge your own path. What wire are you using(gauge and material)? And what problems are you having?


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I've got kanthal 28 the ss 24,26,28,30..I think the main problem I'm having is figuring out what to do the the spool of outer wire while I'm wrapping. It wants to spool out. I need some wire tamer's or figure something out. Also when I'm wrapping I feel like I need to move my feed hand more than I am but it'll run good for 30 wraps or so then I move or fidget or wire blows out. Lol it's always something. I'm plenty happy with at least the twisted and parallel I can build but would be nice to not buy premade FC.

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[Carambrda]

Thanks for that. So the ss does transfer heat faster though, right? The n80 wrap will heat quicker because of its specific heat capacity, but on the other side of the coin the ss will cool off quicker when heated to the same temperature. Is that statement correct?

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Yes, SS has a higher thermal conductivity so it transfers heat faster. It means the SS wrap picks up heat from the surface of the cores faster. It also means the cores heat up slower as a result from that. And it also means the surface of the SS wrap heats up slower, as the SS wrap also conducts heat away from its own surface faster. The end result is that both the cores and the SS wrap's surface heat up slower, and, in addition, the higher volumetric heat capacity of the SS wrap is only slowing it down even further still. Finally, no, SS does not cool off quicker when heated to the same temperature, but rather, N80 does. Remember heat is not to be confused with temperature. If the temperature is the same, then more heat is contained in SS.

 

[CrazyChef v2.0]

I figured out why the Sherman V3 clone had an off taste to it...
I've never had a set of coils gunk up this quickly before.

 

[EndDetour]

I've got kanthal 28 the ss 24,26,28,30..I think the main problem I'm having is figuring out what to do the the spool of outer wire while I'm wrapping. It wants to spool out. I need some wire tamer's or figure something out. Also when I'm wrapping I feel like I need to move my feed hand more than I am but it'll run good for 30 wraps or so then I move or fidget or wire blows out. Lol it's always something. I'm plenty happy with at least the twisted and parallel I can build but would be nice to not buy premade FC.

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I've never used wire tamers so I couldn't speak on that. I have to assume you're using the 30g for the wrap. If you were to use a finer wire like 36g or thinner, the wrapping process I've found is much easier. The wire will fold over much easier. I have done fc with 30g before and a piece of advice...take it slower. Keep the wraps tight and every 12-20 wraps use a pair of pliers to gently press the wrap against both wires. This will keep it tighter(maybe slide the wraps against each other at the same time) and help prevent the cores from turning over on themselves. Do you have any swivels?


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[Fudgey Finger]

Yes, SS has a higher thermal conductivity so it transfers heat faster. It means the SS wrap picks up heat from the surface of the cores faster. It also means the cores heat up slower as a result from that. And it also means the surface of the SS wrap heats up slower, as the SS wrap also conducts heat away from its own surface faster. The end result is that both the cores and the SS wrap's surface heat up slower, and, in addition, the higher volumetric heat capacity of the SS wrap is only slowing it down even further still. Finally, no, SS does not cool off quicker when heated to the same temperature, but rather, N80 does. Remember heat is not to be confused with temperature. If the temperature is the same, then more heat is contained in SS.

Ok thanks. I didn't realise there was a difference between heat and temperature.
I guess I've got some googling to do.

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[MrMeowgi]

I've never used wire tamers so I couldn't speak on that. I have to assume you're using the 30g for the wrap. If you were to use a finer wire like 36g or thinner, the wrapping process I've found is much easier. The wire will fold over much easier. I have done fc with 30g before and a piece of advice...take it slower. Keep the wraps tight and every 12-20 wraps use a pair of pliers to gently press the wrap against both wires. This will keep it tighter(maybe slide the wraps against each other at the same time) and help prevent the cores from turning over on themselves. Do you have any swivels?


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Oh yeah I got everything needed from what I see in other posts.thinner wire would be best like you said. Just have to buy some

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[KingPin!]

I figured out why the Sherman V3 clone had an off taste to it...
I've never had a set of coils gunk up this quickly before.

LoL damn that’s nasty!

 

[Jriley]

I've got kanthal 28 the ss 24,26,28,30..I think the main problem I'm having is figuring out what to do the the spool of outer wire while I'm wrapping. It wants to spool out. I need some wire tamer's or figure something out. Also when I'm wrapping I feel like I need to move my feed hand more than I am but it'll run good for 30 wraps or so then I move or fidget or wire blows out. Lol it's always something. I'm plenty happy with at least the twisted and parallel I can build but would be nice to not buy premade FC.

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Your trying to make fused claptons with a 30G wrap?

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[Carambrda]

Ok thanks. I didn't realise there was a difference between heat and temperature.
I guess I've got some googling to do.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_heat_capacity

 

[EndDetour]

Oh yeah I got everything needed from what I see in other posts.thinner wire would be best like you said. Just have to buy some

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eBay Brody. I got 1000' of 36g n80 for les than $10 and all my 100' spools for less than $5 but you can do it with 30g if you have the patience


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[MrMeowgi]

Your trying to make fused claptons with a 30G wrap?

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It was a 4 pack of wire. I figure I'd see what I could do and failed.

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[Jriley]

It was a 4 pack of wire. I figure I'd see what I could do and failed.

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Not really failing bro that's just way to heavy of a wrap wire.... Hell I use 30G for frames and minute ago tried 32G for frames. Get ya a huge roll (1K + feet) of 36G then even with non ball bearing swivels you won't fuck up fused claptons buddy.

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[Jriley]

Recent thingy
30G SS frames
40G SS stagger
3ply .3R SS (x2)
40G SS skip fuse
2ply .3R kanthal (x2)
1 corrugated .3R SS
40G kanthal D final fuse

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[MrMeowgi]

Not really failing bro that's just way to heavy of a wrap wire.... Hell I use 30G for frames and minute ago tried 32G for frames. Get ya a huge roll (1K + feet) of 36G then even with non ball bearing swivels you won't fuck up fused claptons buddy.

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Thanks I appreciate the help.

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[EndDetour]

Recent thingy
30G SS frames
40G SS stagger
3ply .3R SS (x2)
40G SS skip fuse
2ply .3R kanthal (x2)
1 corrugated .3R SS
40G kanthal D final fuse

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I want to see how that colors out. Im not much for that aspect of the aesthetics but that combo would be pretty interesting. Beautiful build. I don't have the jig or pliers for corrugated builds but I'm seriously considering getting one after the holidays


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[EndDetour]

Update... 3.9 I.D.
1.8 ohm
28g Ka frames staggered with 36g n80
Frames half fused with 3x .5x.1 n80 ribbon
6x40g n80 +2x36g n80 cable core
Final fuse with 36g n80
Moderately slow ramp with 26650 but very decent flavor, warm but not a hot vape on a mech. Excellent vape production.
I think I'm gonna be switching it out promptly.


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[BaronVonEyePoke]

Just put these in my aromamizer plus...dual clapton 26g with 32g wrap ran parallel with 24g nichrome. I'm really loving this set up in the aromamizer. This is the first time I have ever made a coil like this and it's great the staged heating with the nichrome really makes a difference in ramp up and flavor

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[KarmicRage]

Been a while since I've uploaded anything :/ too busy to sit down and spin some wire. Here's some wire I had sitting around previously made. For the life of me I can't remember the tiger wire specs but the staple is 14 ply FeCrAl/38g ss316l. Ohms out at .25 and wrapped around a 5mm bit. Need to get my space sorted and get back on that drill

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[KarmicRage]

Achieved that clarity with my phone and a lens off of these fuckers. Worked quite well I think and a damn sight cheaper than an upgraded camera

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[Fudgey Finger]

Achieved that clarity with my phone and a lens off of these fuckers. Worked quite well I think and a damn sight cheaper than an upgraded camera

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Wtf are those and where do I get them?

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[KarmicRage]

I think they're just called magnifying glasses. I bought mine on ebay for about 7 quid so maybe 10 dollars over that side of the pond. Can't use them for seeing what you're doing when wrapping wire but one of the lenses over the phone lens seems to work a beast. 1st pic was 15x magnification and the 2nd lens was 25x magnification.

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[EndDetour]

28g KA frames
38g KD staggered
40g n80 x16 cable core
40g n80 x2 twisted fused

Started with 4mm I.d... too cool for me. So I reduced it down to a 3mm id. Much better for sure but I'm thinking about reducing a wrap to warm it up a bit more. I've been so used to series where it's a fast hot straight to lung puff, it's taking a lil time to get used to it. This coil does have excellent flavor and just warm enough to be satisfying, not to mention it's a fucking fog machine.


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[Jriley]

28g KA frames
38g KD staggered
40g n80 x16 cable core
40g n80 x2 twisted fused

Started with 4mm I.d... too cool for me. So I reduced it down to a 3mm id. Much better for sure but I'm thinking about reducing a wrap to warm it up a bit more. I've been so used to series where it's a fast hot straight to lung puff, it's taking a lil time to get used to it. This coil does have excellent flavor and just warm enough to be satisfying, not to mention it's a fucking fog machine.


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Use SS and put some .07 shit in that bitch and hold on.
I didn't tell you tho

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[EndDetour]

Use SS and put some .07 shit in that bitch and hold on.
I didn't tell you tho

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I don't have ss but I'll be investing in some after Christmas


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[Jriley]

I don't have ss but I'll be investing in some after Christmas


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Yaaaa, big ass roll of 28G and lifetime supply of 40G

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[Fudgey Finger]

@EndDetour what's so great about these cable cores I keep seeing you use? Never even heard of them before you started posting in here again.

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[Locomotion]

 

[Locomotion]

View attachment 97905

I finally got it right not perfect but accomplished

 

[EndDetour]

@EndDetour what's so great about these cable cores I keep seeing you use? Never even heard of them before you started posting in here again.

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From my experience they offer excellent wicking properties for a core. More grooves more flavor. And there's endless variations of cable. Loose, tight, large small, staged, etc, etc.


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[CrazyChef v2.0]

View attachment 97905

Looks pretty good from here!

 

[Locomotion]

Looks pretty good from here!

Thanks it took me a couple of weeks to get the spacing claptons right.

 

[CrazyChef v2.0]

Try the weighted loop method for your spaced Claptons. For me, it's the easiest to be successful with.

 

[Zohmbiebuilds]

Been really loving these 28g 4 stand ss316l Hive wire builds.

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[mach1ne]

@EndDetour what's so great about these cable cores I keep seeing you use? Never even heard of them before you started posting in here again.

From my experience they offer excellent wicking properties for a core. More grooves more flavor. And there's endless variations of cable. Loose, tight, large small, staged, etc, etc.

they also light up at different rates than the rest of your cores, and kind of act like staged heating. you can really fine tune performance and resistance of your builds through all the possible variations of material and the gauge and number of strands you use.


lots of good work over the last few pages everyone