Regulated Mod Amp Draw Calculator

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Hey guys, I was looking through some threads and I noticed that the calculator we recently added to our site would be helpful in answering a bunch of the posts about what battery to get. I thought I'd post it up if you need a quick simple calculator that gives the amp rating needed for your regulated mod. I know there are other resources like steam engine but they're hard to use and more complicated than they need to be, which is why we made this calculator. Here's the link (maybe this should be stickied?).

Regulated Mod Amps Calculator

Hopefully it helps some people. Let me know if you have any input on it.

 

[Khassy]

Very cool and very easy to use, thanks!

 

[Angrygod50]

Nice..simple..thanks it's a much needed app.

 

[IMFire3605]

I like, a little on the conservative side in its calculations but it works =)

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

I like, a little on the conservative side in its calculations but it works =)

Thanks for the feedback. Can you explain what you mean by conservative? I know the mod efficiency is conservative but we leave it up to the user to be able to make the number more realistic. Is there something else conservative about it?

 

[IMFire3605]

It appears the battery voltage is lower than I prefer to use, I use 3.2v per battery, appears the calculator is using 2.8 to 3.0v per battery. It is fine if you take into account the Alien 220w low cut off is 2.8v per battery. Being on the conservative side using that variable as default is a good thing in my book. Shows a new user though your mod may say it can do XXX amount of watts, the reality safety wise is a fully diferent story.


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[Jon@LiionWholesale]

It appears the battery voltage is lower than I prefer to use, I use 3.2v per battery, appears the calculator is using 2.8 to 3.0v per battery. It is fine if you take into account the Alien 220w low cut off is 2.8v per battery. Being on the conservative side using that variable as default is a good thing in my book. Shows a new user though your mod may say it can do XXX amount of watts, the reality safety wise is a fully diferent story.

Good point, yes we use 3.0V. Everything was done with being conservative in mind. Thanks!

 

[SirRichardRear]

It appears the battery voltage is lower than I prefer to use, I use 3.2v per battery, appears the calculator is using 2.8 to 3.0v per battery. It is fine if you take into account the Alien 220w low cut off is 2.8v per battery. Being on the conservative side using that variable as default is a good thing in my book. Shows a new user though your mod may say it can do XXX amount of watts, the reality safety wise is a fully diferent story.


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this^ i like the idea and appreciate it as I'm sure many will find it usefull.

Good point, yes we use 3.0V. Everything was done with being conservative in mind. Thanks!

I do have a few comments on it though
1) i don't like using the number of batteries thing, because with parallel you don't want to use the full % due to an unbalanced load. it's great for series though
2) i agree the 3.0 is too conservative. the thing is when these regulated mods have batteries charged low (like say 3.5 or less) the output gets way lower. I highly doubt any dual battery mod will put out 150 watts when the input voltage drops to below 7 total. I know with the G class since i tested it on lower batts 6.9-7.2 input voltage and max output dropped from 200 to 170 and that mod has a boost circuit (which also takes away amp drain from batts) most have a buck only so using nominal is fine or even 3.4 if you wanted some extra headroom.
3) efficiency is nice to factor but a few things on it. it's not a set number. It fluctuates based on amp draw. plus most mods don't list theirs. I'd honestly just leave it out as an option and just factor in the 90% power factor automatically if you wanted extra head room

 

[conanthewarrior]

this^ i like the idea and appreciate it as I'm sure many will find it usefull.



I do have a few comments on it though
1) i don't like using the number of batteries thing, because with parallel you don't want to use the full % due to an unbalanced load. it's great for series though
2) i agree the 3.0 is too conservative. the thing is when these regulated mods have batteries charged low (like say 3.5 or less) the output gets way lower. I highly doubt any dual battery mod will put out 150 watts when the input voltage drops to below 7 total. I know with the G class since i tested it on lower batts 6.9-7.2 input voltage and max output dropped from 200 to 170 and that mod has a boost circuit (which also takes away amp drain from batts) most have a buck only so using nominal is fine or even 3.4 if you wanted some extra headroom.
3) efficiency is nice to factor but a few things on it. it's not a set number. It fluctuates based on amp draw. plus most mods don't list theirs. I'd honestly just leave it out as an option and just factor in the 90% power factor automatically if you wanted extra head room

I do see where you are coming from with the number of batteries, with most multi cell regulated mods running in series I don't think it is the worst thing though. An option for parallel or series would be nice though for people using regulated mods that use parallel setups- I realise the Series-parallel wiring is becoming popular with the quad battery mods.

I think erring on the side of caution is a good thing in this case however- similar to how with a mech mod we never actually get 4.2V or the max amp load hitting our atomiser, but it is still best to calculate at 4.2V for safety.
Same way for regulated mods, better to be on the safer side of things and calculate at the minimum voltage than potential danger areas.

Efficiency does lead to a lot of confusion, and like you say isn't a set number. I always use 90% myself but realise this isn't set in stone, I just like to know I have left some room there.

 

[nightshard]

Nice idea and execution but:
- Your calculations seem to be a bit off
- What a shame I get a 3000 mAh Efest (20A) as a viable option for 25A+ range.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! It's very much appreciated.

I do have a few comments on it though
1) i don't like using the number of batteries thing, because with parallel you don't want to use the full % due to an unbalanced load. it's great for series though
2) i agree the 3.0 is too conservative. the thing is when these regulated mods have batteries charged low (like say 3.5 or less) the output gets way lower. I highly doubt any dual battery mod will put out 150 watts when the input voltage drops to below 7 total. I know with the G class since i tested it on lower batts 6.9-7.2 input voltage and max output dropped from 200 to 170 and that mod has a boost circuit (which also takes away amp drain from batts) most have a buck only so using nominal is fine or even 3.4 if you wanted some extra headroom.
3) efficiency is nice to factor but a few things on it. it's not a set number. It fluctuates based on amp draw. plus most mods don't list theirs. I'd honestly just leave it out as an option and just factor in the 90% power factor automatically if you wanted extra head room

I do see where you are coming from with the number of batteries, with most multi cell regulated mods running in series I don't think it is the worst thing though. An option for parallel or series would be nice though for people using regulated mods that use parallel setups- I realise the Series-parallel wiring is becoming popular with the quad battery mods.

I think erring on the side of caution is a good thing in this case however- similar to how with a mech mod we never actually get 4.2V or the max amp load hitting our atomiser, but it is still best to calculate at 4.2V for safety.
Same way for regulated mods, better to be on the safer side of things and calculate at the minimum voltage than potential danger areas.

Efficiency does lead to a lot of confusion, and like you say isn't a set number. I always use 90% myself but realise this isn't set in stone, I just like to know I have left some room there.

Thanks @SirRichardRear and @conanthewarrior. I'm wondering what you would suggest instead? It's a struggle keeping it simple for the target audience, while still making it calculate perfectly.

1) The thinking is most regulated mods are in series, and even in parallel theoretically the max is the same thing although some more safety factor should be implemented. We get some safety factor from using the 3.0 voltage so that takes care of this, in my mind.

Are there parallel regulated mods with less than 4 batteries out there? If not, maybe we could add some additional safety factor for 4 and above batteries to take into account it might be series/parallel.

2) What number do you think we should use instead of 3.0V cutoff?

3) I figure efficiency is nice because you can play with it if you're an advanced user, or it auto-fills the 90% for the novice user. I like it, do you guys disagree?

Nice idea and execution but:
- Your calculations seem to be a bit off
- What a shame I get a 3000 mAh Efest (20A) as a viable option for 25A+ range.

Yeah believe me I don't like that Efest battery ratings are taken to be equivalent to LG/Samsung/etc ratings. From a legal standpoint it's very weird trying to recommend actual amp ranges for batteries, instead of saying what the manufacturer one is. This is something we're working on, some way to communicate that some batteries really have different ratings than the manufacturer quotes. But that's more complicated legally, right now we just wanted to get something out there that works even if it takes the manufacturer ratings as gospel. Luckily we don't carry anything that has a really ridiculous rating.

As for the calculations being off, I don't think they are. What makes you say they're off? Can you give an example?

 

[SirRichardRear]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! It's very much appreciated.




Thanks @SirRichardRear and @conanthewarrior. I'm wondering what you would suggest instead? It's a struggle keeping it simple for the target audience, while still making it calculate perfectly.

1) The thinking is most regulated mods are in series, and even in parallel theoretically the max is the same thing although some more safety factor should be implemented. We get some safety factor from using the 3.0 voltage so that takes care of this, in my mind.

Are there parallel regulated mods with less than 4 batteries out there? If not, maybe we could add some additional safety factor for 4 and above batteries to take into account it might be series/parallel.

2) What number do you think we should use instead of 3.0V cutoff?

3) I figure efficiency is nice because you can play with it if you're an advanced user, or it auto-fills the 90% for the novice user. I like it, do you guys disagree?

1) I'm thinking nominal is fine, that's all i use personally. Even moochs ratings have safety overhead. But if you wanted to keep it safe i'd say 3.4 is a good number.

the only parallel regulated dual mod i can think of is a therion DNA75 one.

2) i'd use 3.7 but if you wanted headroom 3.4. Most mods cut off at 3.1-3.4 anyway

3) 90% is fine

Yeah believe me I don't like that Efest battery ratings are taken to be equivalent to LG/Samsung/etc ratings. From a legal standpoint it's very weird trying to recommend actual amp ranges for batteries, instead of saying what the manufacturer one is. This is something we're working on, some way to communicate that some batteries really have different ratings than the manufacturer quotes. But that's more complicated legally, right now we just wanted to get something out there that works even if it takes the manufacturer ratings as gospel. Luckily we don't carry anything that has a really ridiculous rating.

As for the calculations being off, I don't think they are. What makes you say they're off? Can you give an example?

same goes for tires. Outside of the speed rating, the rest of the ratings are per manufacturer. the tread grade and temp grade is per manufactirer so an AA/A from goodyear isn't the same as an AA/A from some crap brand tire like wildstar

 

[conanthewarrior]

@Jon@LiionWholesale , the majority of multi cell regulated mods are in series like you say. The mods that can run on either one or two 18650's, such as the Istick 100 are in parallel, as well as the DNA75's that use two 18650's.

To be on the safe side which you are trying, 3V is not bad, as amp load is highest at cutoff voltage, although is quite low. A lot of mods cut off at around 3.1-3.2V per cell, although some as low as 2.8V. (EDIT: Actually, the DNA75 is set with a cut off of 2.75V, this is the lowest I can think of though).
@SirRichardRear mentioned 3.7V which I think would give more of an average though, as cutoff is exactly that, when the mod will cutoff and display a low battery message or not fire. Most of the time the batteries will be at a higher voltage than this.

I do think using cutoff is good though for maximum safety, similar to how you calculate a single 18650 mech at 4.2V. Even though this isn't what you will get in reality it is advised to be used as this is where amp load is highest. At cutoff amp load will be highest in a regulated mod so I think that is OK but it depends how much headroom you want to leave for users.

I calculate with 90% myself, unless I know the mod is less efficient than this, so seems good too.

Your calculations don't actually seem to be off, just checked for 75W with a single 18650 at 90% efficiency on your calculator and got 27.78A. Doing my own calculations for the exact same at a 3V cutoff gave me 27.77777A so it must round up to the nearest place. Nothing wrong there in my eyes