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series mech mods

Stedke

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Tbh I don't think I even have an rda that can do single coil at the moment :/ just thought of that

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mokeife

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In a standard 22mm RDA, I think 175w is generally pushing the limits. That's my experience, anyway. To go much higher than that, you need more space and more airflow to accommodate much more coil. 200w of power translates to more heat energy than most atties can tolerate. Size of the coil is really kind of irrelevant, here. In terms of pure heat energy (NOT temperature,) the implications are the same whether you have a small coil or a large one. Once that heat leaves the coil, it has to go somewhere. It needs a certain amount of air dispersing it and liquid to draw it away.

I think the basic idea behind high power is to increase the amount of surface area you can heat, which increases performance across the board. But this only works up to the point where your atty can control all of the heat energy required to drive the coil to the proper temperatures.

Now, 25mm+ is a different story. With those, I can see people legitimately surpassing 200w and having something very vapable. That's when the RX firmware update and para-series mods like the HOG v2 start making a lot more sense.
are you saying if i got a larger rda with more airflow i can hit much higher watts? if so why is that does it just alll come down to airflow?
 

SirRichardRear

AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube
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Something I need to try it sounds, I've honestly never built anything above a .5 before. So our thought process is reversed as I'm used to low ohm and your used to a little higher than me. I would love to figure out a nice build that's not as low with good flavor, warm and fast ramp up.

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The single build I described is about a .21 ohm build. Most of my builds are between .1 and .2 ohm. The highest I recently built was a .46 the lowest was a .09



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Stedke

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Holy crap .09, what are you able to vape that on? Parrallel mod?

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robot zombie

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are you saying if i got a larger rda with more airflow i can hit much higher watts? if so why is that does it just alll come down to airflow?
Well, it's really a combination of factors that airflow is tied to. Airflow is the number one regulator of temperature in an RDA. Try firing your atty with the barrel/top cap on and see how hot it immediately gets. Without that airflow, the coils overcome the wicking and the heat doesn't move. It just collects in the chamber and spreads to the base/barrel.

A larger chamber has more room for the heat to expand into. Think of a small heater in a small room. Now compare that to having that same heater in a bigger room. It just won't be able to heat the air in the larger room.

And alongside that, it can also draw in more cool air to mix with the hot air and somewhat curtail it. And when the air around the coils stays cooler, the coils stay cooler. So now, add fans to those rooms. Small fan for small room and big fan for big room. The small room is now cooler, but the big room is still coolest, meaning you now need an even bigger, higher-powered heater.

To understand how this all relates to wattage, you need to know the difference between temperature and heat energy. Heat energy is quite simply heat. While temperature is a measure of how much heat energy is moving though an object or space. A certain wattage pumped through a certain metal will always produce the same amount of heat energy, regardless of the size of the coil. Only the temperature varies with size.

So lets say you have two kanthal builds, one very small and one very large. You pump 200w into both of them. The temperature of the smaller one will be much higher because there is more heat energy per unit of mass, whereas that same energy is more spread-out in the large one. However, even though the temperature of the larger coil is lower, it still has the same amount of heat energy moving through it as the smaller one.

And all of that heat energy is going to dissipate in the same way, through the same space, with the same amount of cool air mixing with it. That same heat is going to transfer both through the base and into that air no matter what. The large coil will take longer to overheat, but if the airflow isn't sufficient in rate and volume, then it will happen as soon as that heat energy makes its way out of the coil. And thus, the feedback loop between the coil getting hotter, heating the air, and thus heating the coil faster begins.

And then you have to consider that the coil takes up space. If you have a bigger coil generating more heat, you are also cutting into the air in the chamber. You're spreading less air across a larger, no less hot surface. It's easy to see what happens next.

Of course, if you make a coil big enough, then it will disperse the heat energy at a rate where the airflow will be sufficient, but that point, it won't be vaporizing liquid. This is less about extremes and more about practical vaping conditions. Under practical vaping conditions, the airflow and space in a 22mm does limit the wattage you can work with in that the builds that work at that wattage are often too large and thus carry too much heat for the airflow to keep up with. It simply isn't possible for the airflow to cool things down at a rate close enough to that of the coil heating things up.

This is why I say power is sort of locked to your airflow and chamber space. The heat generated by the power is ultimately going to wind up at the mercy of those two factors. Somewhere, there is bound to be a hard, physical limit. You'll never, for instance, be able to comfortably run at 300w in your typical 22mm cloud RDA, even if you do a build that can handle the heat because the airflow can't handle the build. It's like putting a giant heater in a closet.
 
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mokeife

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Well, it's really a combination of factors that airflow is tied to. Airflow is the number one regulator of temperature in an RDA. Try firing your atty with the barrel/top cap on and see how hot it immediately gets. Without that airflow, the coils overcome the wicking and the heat doesn't move. It just collects in the chamber and spreads to the base/barrel.

A larger chamber has more room for the heat to expand into. Think of a small heater in a small room. Now compare that to having that same heater in a bigger room. It just won't be able to heat the air in the larger room.

And alongside that, it can also draw in more cool air to mix with the hot air and somewhat curtail it. And when the air around the coils stays cooler, the coils stay cooler. So now, add fans to those rooms. Small fan for small room and big fan for big room. The small room is now cooler, but the big room is still coolest, meaning you now need an even bigger, higher-powered heater.

To understand how this all relates to wattage, you need to know the difference between temperature and heat energy. Heat energy is quite simply heat. While temperature is a measure of how much heat energy is moving though an object or space. A certain wattage pumped through a certain metal will always produce the same amount of heat energy, regardless of the size of the coil. Only the temperature varies with size.

So lets say you have two kanthal builds, one very small and one very large. You pump 200w into both of them. The temperature of the smaller one will be much higher because there is more heat energy per unit of volume, whereas that same energy is more spread-out in the large one. However, even though the temperature of the larger coil is lower, it still has the same amount of heat energy moving through it as the smaller one.

And all of that heat energy is going to dissipate in the same way, through the same space, with the same amount of cool air mixing with it. That same heat is going to transfer both through the base and into that air no matter what. The large coil will take longer to overheat, but if the airflow isn't sufficient in rate and volume, then it will happen as soon as that heat energy makes its way out of the coil. And thus, the feedback loop between the coil getting hotter, heating the air, and thus heating the coil faster begins.

And then you have to consider that the coil takes up space. If you have a bigger coil generating more heat, you are also cutting into the air in the chamber. You're spreading less air across a larger, no less hot surface. It's easy to see what happens next.

Of course, if you make a coil big enough, then it will disperse the heat energy at a rate where the airflow will be sufficient, but that point, it won't be vaporizing liquid. This is less about extremes and more about practical vaping conditions. Under practical vaping conditions, the airflow and space in a 22mm does limit the wattage you can work with in that the builds that work at that wattage are often too large and thus carry too much heat for the airflow to keep up with. It simply isn't possible for the airflow to cool things down at a rate close enough to that of the coil heating things up.

This is why I say power is sort of locked to your airflow and chamber space. The heat generated by the power is ultimately going to wind up at the mercy of those two factors. Somewhere, there is bound to be a hard, physical limit. You'll never, for instance, be able to comfortably run at 300w in your typical 22mm cloud RDA, even if you do a build that can handle the heat because the airflow can't handle the build. It's like putting a giant heater in a closet.
Thank you for that! i didnt know airflow had that much effect
 

SirRichardRear

AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube
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Holy crap .09, what are you able to vape that on? Parrallel mod?

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A regulated 171 watt box mod. Hohm wrecker g2. It's a dual 3 wire twist kenthal, nife, and ss430 blend

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Stedke

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Thone are some beautiful coils you've made!! Talk about a tight fit!!
 

Stedke

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A regulated 171 watt box mod. Hohm wrecker g2. It's a dual 3 wire twist kenthal, nife, and ss430 blend

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I didn't know they made a regulated device that went down that low. Very cool! Have to check that out.
 

MannyScoot

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Thone are some beautiful coils you've made!! Talk about a tight fit!!
That's the deck of the 30mm Modfather rta..... Its 19.5mm.... I can probably get 1 more wrap..... Thanks for the compliment.... Here is a smaller version on a 3mm bit (6) wrap in the Boreas rta......
IMAG1974_1.jpg

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Stedke

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I hope that one day I can build as beautiful as you! I can see you love your velocity style decks, I just got my first velocity style deck in an rda and absolutely love it. Don't think I'll get much of anything else now. I bet that build on your boreas has good flavor and good Cloud production!
 

SirRichardRear

AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube
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I didn't know they made a regulated device that went down that low. Very cool! Have to check that out.
It fires down to a .007 resistance



That's a .16 ohm build. 100 watts 450f temp control just amazing flavor

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SirRichardRear

AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube
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That's the deck of the 30mm Modfather rta..... Its 19.5mm.... I can probably get 1 more wrap..... Thanks for the compliment.... Here is a smaller version on a 3mm bit (6) wrap in the Boreas rta......
View attachment 62726

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That's an awesome job wicking. Looks perfect

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MannyScoot

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Member For 4 Years
That's an awesome job wicking. Looks perfect

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Thanks bro...... The modfather loves a thick wick..... Lots of Cotton..... I even drop cotton in the middle of the deck to make sure it's all completely covered....
IMAG1962_1.jpg

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SirRichardRear

AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube
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Thanks bro...... The modfather loves a thick wick..... Lots of Cotton..... I even drop cotton in the middle of the deck to make sure it's all completely covered....
View attachment 62727

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Well it looks awesome. So many people ignore the importance of good wicking

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MannyScoot

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Member For 4 Years
You wick good also..... Taking the time and trying different lengths and thickness and not playing too much with the cotton...... Some people have no idea that touching the cotton with oily hands with ejuice on your fingers will change the flavor and how the cotton wicks.... Smashing, not fluffing, and mainly waiting..... If you wick a tank haven't you noticed that it really starts tasting good after a couple of days ? That's how long it takes cotton sometimes to get properly saturated..... Days......

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Stedke

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Hmmm, I honestly think I have a ways to go yet before I get my wicking down to an art. You guys have any tips? Sorry if I don't respond back tonight, super late here and have work in the am.
 

SirRichardRear

AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube
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You wick good also..... Taking the time and trying different lengths and thickness and not playing too much with the cotton...... Some people have no idea that touching the cotton with oily hands with ejuice on your fingers will change the flavor and how the cotton wicks.... Smashing, not fluffing, and mainly waiting..... If you wick a tank haven't you noticed that it really starts tasting good after a couple of days ? That's how long it takes cotton sometimes to get properly saturated..... Days......

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Yup. Wicking is probably the hardest part to get down on building. If your temp control doesn't dry the cotton out completely with no bad tatse, you did something wrong for sure.

Also one day I'm gonna get that modfather. I think you convinced me lol. That and the lost vape 167 mods are on my short list right now

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MannyScoot

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Member For 4 Years
Yup. Wicking is probably the hardest part to get down on building. If your temp control doesn't dry the cotton out completely with no bad tatse, you did something wrong for sure.

Also one day I'm gonna get that modfather. I think you convinced me lol. That and the lost vape 167 mods are on my short list right now

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These (2) are my favs....
IMAG1880_1.jpgIMAG1936_1.jpg

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MannyScoot

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Member For 4 Years
Not sure if yall figured this out but my guess is because of voltage sag on the mech where as regulated doesn't show the sag.
Get this battery..... On a mechanical mod when you push the button, you will shit.........
VRK%2018650%20battery%2003_1.jpg

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MannyScoot

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Hmmm, I honestly think I have a ways to go yet before I get my wicking down to an art. You guys have any tips? Sorry if I don't respond back tonight, super late here and have work in the am.
Just read what we just shared on this thread.....
That's all it takes......love and passion and time....... I can spend an hour putting coils and wicking the deck....... Preheating and torching coils, tightening coils, heating and re-thightning the grub screws...... It's time consuming but I know for a week a longer I'm alright and Vaping good.....

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Stedke

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Thanks guys!!

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mokeife

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You wick good also..... Taking the time and trying different lengths and thickness and not playing too much with the cotton...... Some people have no idea that touching the cotton with oily hands with ejuice on your fingers will change the flavor and how the cotton wicks.... Smashing, not fluffing, and mainly waiting..... If you wick a tank haven't you noticed that it really starts tasting good after a couple of days ? That's how long it takes cotton sometimes to get properly saturated..... Days......

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i wear rubber gloves when i build oily hands can make your build taste soo bad!
 

MannyScoot

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Unless it's tested and blessed by Mooch I won't touch it

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I like the color on the wrap.......Sexy and American colors.....

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MannyScoot

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Actually Mooch did test it, looks to be a rewapped LG HG2.

I'd rather get the LG than a rewapped 2nd or in some cases 3rd.

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Mooch tested the 3500mah model this new one is the 3000mah model and ecig bench test results are over 30amps.....

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martnargh

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2x28ss/40ss 3mm 10 wrap dual coil i get around .35 ohm.

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MannyScoot

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Member For 4 Years
Actually Mooch did test it, looks to be a rewapped LG HG2.

I'd rather get the LG than a rewapped 2nd or in some cases 3rd.

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Dang I got fucked again..... Well they were like $7.50..... Thanks god I only got six......

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r055co

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Mooch tested the 3500mah model this new one is the 3000mah model and ecig bench test results are over 30amps.....

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No 18650, especially 3000 mAh is over 30a. They're just rewrapping 2nd and 3rd batteries from the big 4, exaggerating their ratings and selling them, usually more than the real deal.
So no good i take it?
My next batch of batteries are going to be Sony VTC5a's, IMR Batteries have them in stock. Great balance of performance and mAh. 25a and 2500 mAh

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SirRichardRear

AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube
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No 18650, especially 3000 mAh is over 30a. They're just rewrapping 2nd and 3rd batteries from the big 4, exaggerating their ratings and selling them, usually more than the real deal.

My next batch of batteries are going to be Sony VTC5a's, IMR Batteries have them in stock. Great balance of performance and mAh. 25a and 2500 mAh

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I'm good with the LG HG2 and Samsung 30Q
If i needed more amps I also have some LG HB6 or the samsung 25R which is pretty much the same as the VCT5

I'm just weary with sony batteries since technically nobody is supposed to be selling them anymore and sony doesn't even make anymore.
 

r055co

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I'm good with the LG HG2 and Samsung 30Q
If i needed more amps I also have some LG HB6 or the samsung 25R which is pretty much the same as the VCT5

I'm just weary with sony batteries since technically nobody is supposed to be selling them anymore and sony doesn't even make anymore.
Sony is still putting out batteries, they don't sell to consumers. I source my batteries from Liion Wholesale or IMR Batteries. They work with and support Mooch.

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