That was interesting. Thanks for the link. Although, when it opened up and I saw ecf - Welcome muth, I jumped back! It is getting near Halloween. Couldn't be scarier
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The Evolv DNA 40 Temperature Control chip do you think it was designed for e-juice or for Dry herb?
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BabyFartsMcGeezax
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Going to redo this later...posted a lot more on ecf..but going to do it properly=with another set of hands later..maybe..I might say fuck it, cuz my camera has a 320* Fahrenheit cut off..
Parallel 0.3 Ohm 28awg kanthal dual "parallel"/dual wire on IPV2@~41 Watts.
Saturated wicks...
Dry wicks burst into flames, and camera wasn't looking at them - when it took picture, and I put out the inferno.
No wicks
Edit-nvm.. I'll be back..just won't be how I want it..
Parallel 0.3 Ohm 28awg kanthal dual "parallel"/dual wire on IPV2@~41 Watts.
Saturated wicks...
Dry wicks burst into flames, and camera wasn't looking at them - when it took picture, and I put out the inferno.
No wicks
Edit-nvm.. I'll be back..just won't be how I want it..
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I didn't even think VG/PG vaporized at the temperatures in the first picture.Going to redo this later...posted a lot more on ecf..but going to do it properly=with another set of hands later..maybe..I might say fuck it, cuz my camera has a 320* Fahrenheit cut off..
Parallel 0.3 Ohm 28awg dual "parallel"/dual wire on IPV2@~41 Watts.
Saturated wicks...
Dry wicks burst into flames, and camera wasn't looking at them - when it took picture, and I put out the inferno.
No wicks
Edit-nvm.. I'll be back..just won't be how I want it..
BabyFartsMcGeezax
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Well, that was a quick job.. the one I just did is much better.. Had to play around with it for a minute.. been a few years..
Well, no intranet here..so can't export pictures from phone. I'll do something ghetto-fabulous..
These shots were with same build..after I did it, I realized I had ipv2 at 50 Watts...so I'm going to be taking my camera for repairs..video isn't functioning correctly..at all really.. the camera cooperated this time around...got all these shots on 2-3 consecutive burns.. The well had a minute amount of liquid, a little lag before first one, it was around 300 when I first fired it up..wick was starting to dry at 2nd picture..3rd picture was right before combustion..
So yeah... just wanted something more appropriate up.. after camera gets serviced, I'll go real in depth with it..video of full well, to burnt wicks..
Well, no intranet here..so can't export pictures from phone. I'll do something ghetto-fabulous..
These shots were with same build..after I did it, I realized I had ipv2 at 50 Watts...so I'm going to be taking my camera for repairs..video isn't functioning correctly..at all really.. the camera cooperated this time around...got all these shots on 2-3 consecutive burns.. The well had a minute amount of liquid, a little lag before first one, it was around 300 when I first fired it up..wick was starting to dry at 2nd picture..3rd picture was right before combustion..
So yeah... just wanted something more appropriate up.. after camera gets serviced, I'll go real in depth with it..video of full well, to burnt wicks..
Cool, I want a FLIR camera. Those are awesome. Now you have to do a whole mess of different ohms and wattages before you move on to different PG/VG percentages.Well, that was a quick job.. the one I just did is much better.. Had to play around with it for a minute.. been a few years..
Well, no intranet here..so can't export pictures from phone. I'll do something ghetto-fabulous..
These shots were with same build..after I did it, I realized I had ipv2 at 50 Watts...so I'm going to be taking my camera for repairs..video isn't functioning correctly..at all really.. the camera cooperated this time around...got all these shots on 2-3 consecutive burns.. The well had a minute amount of liquid, a little lag before first one, it was around 300 when I first fired it up..wick was starting to dry at 2nd picture..3rd picture was right before combustion..
So yeah... just wanted something more appropriate up.. after camera gets serviced, I'll go real in depth with it..video of full well, to burnt wicks..
BabyFartsMcGeezax
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Lol...I know. I realized that when I posted on ecf, "...same juice, same build." When I read that after typing it..I literally spoke out.. ".....shit........" Opened Pandora's box with this..
BabyFartsMcGeezax
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Lol..yeah. I tried. Kinda..I've dropped who I am in a few threads, but just in case I was one of those that influenced someone to hate ecf...
Pretty interesting pics BFM I look forward to when you get the camera out of the shop and go further with this.
What?? No way? Say it isn't so!
Preliminary report.
Protovape XPV DNA40
Topper: Magma Clone by Infinite
First Build: single coil 11 or 12 wraps using 30 gauge Ni200 with an ID of 3MM - .20 OHMS on my Meter. .22 OHMS on the device. Nice!
Wicking material: choices choices choices. /lol Lets go quick and dirty with 3MM Ekowool since I'm a little nervous about using wire I can barely see and need a beefy wick first. Wrap on a jig first. I did not preheat the coil to sqeeze the wraps. Matter of fact I forgot to wash the coil in my excitement. Then install the wick before I mount on the Magma clone. I wanted to make sure I did not distort the coil and this seemed a bit safer for my newb first try. Almost like starting over. HA! Wow that was easy. Lets squeeze the wraps together with my finger nail. Nice! /lol Coil with wick cut and installed in my Magma. Very very carefully tighten the post screws. Prime/fill and vape! Nice!
NO Nickel 200 wire taste! That was a concern of mine. I'm vaping Halo's Southern Classic 50/50 6MG and comparing it's taste to the same juice on my KF + Provari 2.5. Seems about the same. Tunning for taste via Tempature and currently set for 30 watts with 480F. Tons of vapor using the smallest air hole and a single coil. Removed the topper and installed again just for kicks. It did ask me if it's the same one or new one.
I found Narvana! LOL Kept vaping with my Magma waiting for death aka that harsh dry hit which makes me cough and caused me not to use my gaggle of drippers a great deal. Bingo! A non event. What does happen for me is the taste of the vape begins to fade as in it's no longer that bright yummy that Ive been vaping for over a year. It's a weak flavor. I also noticed my vapor production drops. No dry hits. Just fill/drip the beast. That's a game changer for me.
BTW, congrats to the Evolv Beta geeks and Evolv for a job well done!
Protovape XPV DNA40
Topper: Magma Clone by Infinite
First Build: single coil 11 or 12 wraps using 30 gauge Ni200 with an ID of 3MM - .20 OHMS on my Meter. .22 OHMS on the device. Nice!
Wicking material: choices choices choices. /lol Lets go quick and dirty with 3MM Ekowool since I'm a little nervous about using wire I can barely see and need a beefy wick first. Wrap on a jig first. I did not preheat the coil to sqeeze the wraps. Matter of fact I forgot to wash the coil in my excitement. Then install the wick before I mount on the Magma clone. I wanted to make sure I did not distort the coil and this seemed a bit safer for my newb first try. Almost like starting over. HA! Wow that was easy. Lets squeeze the wraps together with my finger nail. Nice! /lol Coil with wick cut and installed in my Magma. Very very carefully tighten the post screws. Prime/fill and vape! Nice!
NO Nickel 200 wire taste! That was a concern of mine. I'm vaping Halo's Southern Classic 50/50 6MG and comparing it's taste to the same juice on my KF + Provari 2.5. Seems about the same. Tunning for taste via Tempature and currently set for 30 watts with 480F. Tons of vapor using the smallest air hole and a single coil. Removed the topper and installed again just for kicks. It did ask me if it's the same one or new one.
I found Narvana! LOL Kept vaping with my Magma waiting for death aka that harsh dry hit which makes me cough and caused me not to use my gaggle of drippers a great deal. Bingo! A non event. What does happen for me is the taste of the vape begins to fade as in it's no longer that bright yummy that Ive been vaping for over a year. It's a weak flavor. I also noticed my vapor production drops. No dry hits. Just fill/drip the beast. That's a game changer for me.
BTW, congrats to the Evolv Beta geeks and Evolv for a job well done!
I don't believe you. You are going to have to send that to me to confirm.
@SeniorBoy: thank you for the feedback.
Out of curiosity, what do you set then? Watts or desired temperature?
Out of curiosity, what do you set then? Watts or desired temperature?
The short answer is fiddle and tweak with both settings
A longer simple answer: First, Using Ni200 and the features of the DNA40 is an entirely new way of thinking. This is not my first rodeo however I don't wish to infer that I'm an expert. This is only day 2 for me and sure I did a lot of research before I got my device but their is still a learning curve. Weather this is justified for you or anyone else remains to be seen. Certainly, for those of us emersed in the culture of I've got to fiddle and build, chase the vape, chase the clouds, expand our collection, etc it's fun. Definitions:
Watts aka power aka Heat controls Vapor production, Volume of same, and for some lung hits
Temperature (Requires Ni200) produces and controls taste of the vape and controls and eliminates via the boards Temperature Control burned/charred wicks, dry hits and burned juice taste. Applies to all vapors and all devices which use a DNA40 mod and Ni200 in their delivry device. Obviously drippers like my Magma and others are the primary benefactor of Temperature Control.
Disclosure: I primarily chase flavor and a reasonable amount of "clouds" is fine with me. Sure, on occasion I might build a dual coil, crank up the watts on my other device and see if I can fill my living room with clounds. /lol
I'm hopeful that "redemption" for Dr. Joe Bitch and Nitro Fuck is not far away. /lol / no offence intended.
A great series of interviews would include both cloud chasers and flavor chasers. It will certainly be very challenging but I remain hopeful and we could certainly learn a great deal from either "camp"
Yes. Max temp is 600 degrees and you can also turn off TC while using Ni200. Max Power is 40 watts. See this link. Below the Phil and Brandon vid is a detailed post with pics by Mike who was one of the beta testers. He is a straight shooter and far more knowledgeable than I am. Covers just about all the features.
http://www.vaportalk.com/forum/topic/24538-dna-40-temperature-control/
http://www.vaportalk.com/forum/topic/24538-dna-40-temperature-control/
BabyFartsMcGeezax
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And notice in my 2nd-set of pictures..the second picture is when the wicks were half dry....this will be the temperature when you start getting harsh dry hits- willing to bet all across the board, until you get into low wattage vaping.
When get video working correctly, it will be a much better analysis of joules related to watts.
..this will be the temperature when you start getting harsh dry hits- willing to bet all across the board, until you get into low wattage vaping.When get video working correctly, it will be a much better analysis of joules related to watts.
Midniteoyl
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Yep.. set the wattage you want, then set temp to when your wick or juice might start getting 'burned'.. You'll run at the wattage you set unless it starts to go over the temp setting, then it will back down. If you notice this, then you either need to 1) increase airflow to keep the coil cooler, or 2) increase the flow of juice to the coil, or 3) figure out a different wattage setting 'cause what you want isnt working
Another cool feature of the temp control is even if you like, say only 15w, the board will use higher wattage at the start of the vape until the temp setting is reached then back down to your wattage.. A 'ramp up' feature to get the coil hotter faster..
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What's the resistance, edit-delete-corrected..long story, of a 0.1 Ohm ni-200 coil at the peak heat (vaporizing liquid -not burning)?
Too much math for the end of the day for this guy...would take me a while to be certain of an answer regardless.. Use whatever wattage you desire.
Too much math for the end of the day for this guy...would take me a while to be certain of an answer regardless.. Use whatever wattage you desire.
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Ha ha, you're in trouble. This is off subject but I'm speaking to a UK Co. about building an affordable, lab tray shaker or wrist shaker for my juice. I'm getting tired of picking up my bottles every day and shaking all of them. Do you think I'm a lunatic?
Neat guys, thanks for the info. I'd rather get it here than watching yet another endless Busardo video.
I like the idea behind the DNA40 very much. I'll have to get me a mod that sports this board when the prices come down - or when the Chinese clone the feature, more likely
I like the idea behind the DNA40 very much. I'll have to get me a mod that sports this board when the prices come down - or when the Chinese clone the feature, more likely
The short answer is fiddle and tweak with both settings
A longer simple answer: First, Using Ni200 and the features of the DNA40 is an entirely new way of thinking. This is not my first rodeo however I don't wish to infer that I'm an expert. This is only day 2 for me and sure I did a lot of research before I got my device but their is still a learning curve. Weather this is justified for you or anyone else remains to be seen. Certainly, for those of us emersed in the culture of I've got to fiddle and build, chase the vape, chase the clouds, expand our collection, etc it's fun. Definitions:
Watts aka power aka Heat controls Vapor production, Volume of same, and for some lung hits
Temperature (Requires Ni200) produces and controls taste of the vape and controls and eliminates via the boards Temperature Control burned/charred wicks, dry hits and burned juice taste. Applies to all vapors and all devices which use a DNA40 mod and Ni200 in their delivry device. Obviously drippers like my Magma and others are the primary benefactor of Temperature Control.
Disclosure: I primarily chase flavor and a reasonable amount of "clouds" is fine with me. Sure, on occasion I might build a dual coil, crank up the watts on my other device and see if I can fill my living room with clounds. /lol
I'm hopeful that "redemption" for Dr. Joe Bitch and Nitro Fuck is not far away. /lol / no offence intended.
A great series of interviews would include both cloud chasers and flavor chasers. It will certainly be very challenging but I remain hopeful and we could certainly learn a great deal from either "camp"
What wattage/temp do you use (still 30W/480F) and do you see uses for changing the wattage while in temperature mode? Would higher than 40W be useful in future boards? How does wire thickness and resistance effect the quality of vape in temperature control mode? I heard the Ni200 is soft and springy are you able to get tight coils? Do you heat and squeeze the coils in wattage mode before turning on temperature control? Have you tried any other wicking materials yet? Is it more awesomer?
Well then do not buy it DUH
Inhale dust or particles? At what specific temperature? Do you have links to back that up, or are you just making a wild guess?
BabyFartsMcGeezax
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Nickel compounds...yep..pure nickel.lol.
SMOKIE
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Just Google it!
What you never had a dry hit!How does dust form while wet?
Just what I thought, a wild guess, lol!
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Ha Ha just Google nickle and you will find out all about this metal.
With the DNA 40 you don't get dry hits. Geez, try doing a little research!
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So your saying without juice or dry it will not fire?
I already have, thus I know I won't inhaling any dust or particles from the wire.
Why don't you voice this concern with Evolv? I would be interested to know why they would choose to risk their reputation on what you think is a dangerous product.
Obviously you don't have a clue how the Evolv DNA 40 works. Have fun making a fool out of yourself.
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Here we go @RyGon making up shit! You just said it was Dangerous! No where did I ever say that.
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Fool of myself, lol Nickel go ahead suck on it, have fun.
I'm sorry, I thought it was a reasonable inference from your posts on the subject but either way I would still love to hear what Evolv has to say about it. Do you object to my my question?
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We asked Brandon to come on Mod Envy to explain his reason for making this temperature control chip, but no response, I loved all his past products which I still own,
...and so you think that they would not answer a question about the nickel wire? That seems quite different to me than coming on your show.
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Not with a temp controlled DNA40..
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Correct!
I'll vape on it, I'll leave sucking to you.
Found this post by Breaktru on his modders forum, an exchange on Nickel between him and Brandon from Evolv:
Some people have asked about the concerns of using pure nickel wire for coils. Here is what Brandon of Evolv has posted in the Facebook beta group:
OK so John and I have been seeing quite a few emails concerned with the Nickel wire used with the DNA 40. We decided to write a response that I think may be interesting to all of you. Feelfree to steal from it any or all parts to drive away the hypothetical Nickel boggeyman
Original email:
Hi, Off the back of your announcement today of the new DNA 40 board and it's ability to control the temperature of a nickel coil, there has been much concern on vaping forums about the use of nickel wire as a coil. Here is an exert of some of the comments: "Bad, bad idea. Look up the toxicology of nickel and ask if you want to heat that and inhale the result. I won't. " "Nickel is relatively chemically unreactive to some things, but not to others. It reacts very rapidly with carbon monoxide. And nickel carbonyl is really evil crap. And heating any organic flavour is going to resul in some carbon monoxide production. " "So in your opinion using nickel or nichrome as heating wire for vaping is dangerous? I don't know enough about it to judge if you're right or wrong. I hope you're wrong because I think this about to be the next big thing in vaping. This technology is going to start popping up in mass market devices very soon and some premade atties are going to come with nickel rather than nichrome. " Are you able to allay any of these concerns over using nickel wire? Is there a specific type or grade of nickel we use? Does nickel wire pose any more harm than Kanthal A1? Kind regards
Our response:
We agree Nickel Carbonyl is truly evil crap. Fortunately, there isn't any here.
Point 1: We aren't generating carbon monoxide. The whole point of temperature protection is to, well, protect from elevated temperatures. Heating doesn't generate carbon monoxide. You have to be getting combustion or pyrolysis. And you have to be combusting in a fuel-rich (less oxygen that stoichiometric) environment. Like a cigarette. We never get anywhere near combustion temperature, and even if we did (say, one turned the temperature limit up to 2000 degrees) the environment in an atomizer is oxygen rich, not fuel rich. So you would get carbon dioxide, not monoxide. To get pyrolytic decomposition of the fluid into carbon monoxide and hydrogen, we would want a coil temperature of about 1500F and you'd need to have it sealed off from air completely.
Point 2: If this was a problem, we would have already seen it. The Mond process you describe (nickel ore to nickel carbonyl to nickel metal) is how one refines nickel from ore. The commercial coils are already 80% nickel and run at higher temperatures when they dry out. If we were getting nickel carbonyl production, that would refine the nickel out and we would end up with a porous wire with only 20% chromium left. That's not what happens.
Point 3: Given that all the real research, vapor analysis and long term studies that have been done to this point have been done with commercial cigalikes, all of which use nichrome coils (80% nickel and not at all protected from overheating) if there was a substance as toxic as nickel carbonyl in the vapor, the anti-ecig forces would be screaming that from every rooftop. Nobody has found any, even in devices that aren't temperature controlled. One study did find some metallic nickel and metallic chromium from pitting in the vapor steam, so they were obviously looking for metallic compounds.
I'm attaching the Goniewicz research paper which is one often cited by those on both sides of the e-cigarette safety debate. The study looked at products using nichrome heating coils. And yes, they measured nickel. The study also looked for carbon monoxide in the vapor stream and found none. Zero. The following excerpt is from the study:
"The amounts of toxic metals and aldehydes in e-cigarettes are trace amounts and are comparable with amounts contained in an examined therapeutic product."
Dr. Michael Siegel said of the Goniewicz paper:
"The most important finding in this study (that the authors failed to acknowledge) was that all of the trace levels of metals they found in e-cigarette aerosol were within permissible exposure limits for FDA approved inhalable drugs and devices (e.g. nicotine inhaler, asthma inhalers) per Pharmacopeial Convention."
Basically it boils down to anything a Nickel 200 coil would do, a nichrome coil would already be doing (and worse due to higher temperatures) and nichrome coils are the only ones that have been studied in any meaningful detail by the real scientists, labs and MDs.
What Kanthal is or is not doing, we cannot say as we haven't really studied it.
What is a problem with the commercially available nickel 200 wire is they use a particularly nasty tasting oil in the drawing process. So if you roll a new coil without degreasing the wire first, you initially get a nasty taste from that oil. A good washing with acetone or simple green, followed by rinsing in water, solves that problem. But that is something to point out if people are reporting weird chemical tastes when they first try it.
Thanks,
Brandon
Evolv, LLC
Some people have asked about the concerns of using pure nickel wire for coils. Here is what Brandon of Evolv has posted in the Facebook beta group:
OK so John and I have been seeing quite a few emails concerned with the Nickel wire used with the DNA 40. We decided to write a response that I think may be interesting to all of you. Feelfree to steal from it any or all parts to drive away the hypothetical Nickel boggeyman
Original email:
Hi, Off the back of your announcement today of the new DNA 40 board and it's ability to control the temperature of a nickel coil, there has been much concern on vaping forums about the use of nickel wire as a coil. Here is an exert of some of the comments: "Bad, bad idea. Look up the toxicology of nickel and ask if you want to heat that and inhale the result. I won't. " "Nickel is relatively chemically unreactive to some things, but not to others. It reacts very rapidly with carbon monoxide. And nickel carbonyl is really evil crap. And heating any organic flavour is going to resul in some carbon monoxide production. " "So in your opinion using nickel or nichrome as heating wire for vaping is dangerous? I don't know enough about it to judge if you're right or wrong. I hope you're wrong because I think this about to be the next big thing in vaping. This technology is going to start popping up in mass market devices very soon and some premade atties are going to come with nickel rather than nichrome. " Are you able to allay any of these concerns over using nickel wire? Is there a specific type or grade of nickel we use? Does nickel wire pose any more harm than Kanthal A1? Kind regards
Our response:
We agree Nickel Carbonyl is truly evil crap. Fortunately, there isn't any here.
Point 1: We aren't generating carbon monoxide. The whole point of temperature protection is to, well, protect from elevated temperatures. Heating doesn't generate carbon monoxide. You have to be getting combustion or pyrolysis. And you have to be combusting in a fuel-rich (less oxygen that stoichiometric) environment. Like a cigarette. We never get anywhere near combustion temperature, and even if we did (say, one turned the temperature limit up to 2000 degrees) the environment in an atomizer is oxygen rich, not fuel rich. So you would get carbon dioxide, not monoxide. To get pyrolytic decomposition of the fluid into carbon monoxide and hydrogen, we would want a coil temperature of about 1500F and you'd need to have it sealed off from air completely.
Point 2: If this was a problem, we would have already seen it. The Mond process you describe (nickel ore to nickel carbonyl to nickel metal) is how one refines nickel from ore. The commercial coils are already 80% nickel and run at higher temperatures when they dry out. If we were getting nickel carbonyl production, that would refine the nickel out and we would end up with a porous wire with only 20% chromium left. That's not what happens.
Point 3: Given that all the real research, vapor analysis and long term studies that have been done to this point have been done with commercial cigalikes, all of which use nichrome coils (80% nickel and not at all protected from overheating) if there was a substance as toxic as nickel carbonyl in the vapor, the anti-ecig forces would be screaming that from every rooftop. Nobody has found any, even in devices that aren't temperature controlled. One study did find some metallic nickel and metallic chromium from pitting in the vapor steam, so they were obviously looking for metallic compounds.
I'm attaching the Goniewicz research paper which is one often cited by those on both sides of the e-cigarette safety debate. The study looked at products using nichrome heating coils. And yes, they measured nickel. The study also looked for carbon monoxide in the vapor stream and found none. Zero. The following excerpt is from the study:
"The amounts of toxic metals and aldehydes in e-cigarettes are trace amounts and are comparable with amounts contained in an examined therapeutic product."
Dr. Michael Siegel said of the Goniewicz paper:
"The most important finding in this study (that the authors failed to acknowledge) was that all of the trace levels of metals they found in e-cigarette aerosol were within permissible exposure limits for FDA approved inhalable drugs and devices (e.g. nicotine inhaler, asthma inhalers) per Pharmacopeial Convention."
Basically it boils down to anything a Nickel 200 coil would do, a nichrome coil would already be doing (and worse due to higher temperatures) and nichrome coils are the only ones that have been studied in any meaningful detail by the real scientists, labs and MDs.
What Kanthal is or is not doing, we cannot say as we haven't really studied it.
What is a problem with the commercially available nickel 200 wire is they use a particularly nasty tasting oil in the drawing process. So if you roll a new coil without degreasing the wire first, you initially get a nasty taste from that oil. A good washing with acetone or simple green, followed by rinsing in water, solves that problem. But that is something to point out if people are reporting weird chemical tastes when they first try it.
Thanks,
Brandon
Evolv, LLC
Sweet! That's that.
BabyFartsMcGeezax
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Lol...I dunno...Sweet! That's that.
The internet has a plethora of information about using nickel in food production and in vacuums, of all sorts- since it does NOT gas..
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