Vapers Sue Five Pawns for $5 Million

[stevegmu]

Yes, true. But...

In a pay-to-play system, are these guys going to be in the pockets of politicians? Are they contributing to and at the forefront of vaping advocacy efforts now? Are they leading the industry in setting standards and being a national voice for this industry? No. Vaping doesn't have that kind of cash to throw around, and doesn't have that kind of pull or influence. As big as this industry is, it's still small potatoes. That's the point I'm trying to ultimately make here.

NJOY and Big Tobacco defeated the proposals in California with lobbying and campaign contributions...

 

[ChrisL]

They should win this class action lawsuit; and be awarded 1 dollar. This was brought on by a chance for monetary gain, pure and simple.

 

[stevegmu]

They should win this class action lawsuit; and be awarded 1 dollar. This was brought on by a chance for monetary gain, pure and simple.

If you were deceived and lied to about ingesting a potentially dangerous product, wouldn't you want the company to face monetary penalties? Personally, I think they should be criminally charged...

 

[MikeSully]

If you were deceived and lied to about ingesting a potentially dangerous product, wouldn't you want the company to face monetary penalties? Personally, I think they should be criminally charged...

They ought to donate to advocacy and studies. $5m could go a long way for us vapers in that regard.

 

[stevegmu]

They ought to donate to advocacy and studies. $5m could go a long way for us vapers in that regard.

There are $ millions available from the government for studies; perhaps the 'advocacy' groups should apply for them...

 

[backdoc]

Steve, You would make a good Democrat

 

[stevegmu]

Steve, You would make a good Democrat

How so? It isn't my fault the 'advocacy' groups don't have the wherewithal to use the system for their 'cause...' The only way to punish companies which breach trust and possibly endanger their customers in through litigation. Most on here seem to hate Chantix and the company who sells it and would relish large judgements against them, but when Big Vapor is involved, the plaintiffs are just looking for a payday...

 

[backdoc]

Because you see government as the answer ..............

 

[stevegmu]

Because you see government as the answer ..............

They are a resource. The other side uses it quite successfully. One day the 'activists' will wake up and do the same...

 

[backdoc]

The "other side" is the Government Son

 

[stevegmu]

The "other side" is the Government Son

No, that anti smoking activists are- like Bill Goodshall. They just happen to be good at using government resources...

 

[backdoc]

Steve, you seem to have all the answers, ill leave the thread to you to enlighten those who come your way............

 

[stevegmu]

Steve, you seem to have all the answers, ill leave the thread to you to enlighten those who come your way............

I can't help it if some can't see the truth through the clouds...

 

[stevegmu]

View attachment 34179

Not quite sure what litigation has to do with government. I take it you don't have a meme for that, however...

 

[ej1024]

Lol
Here we go


VAPE ON

 

[Mattp169]

@stevegmu you posted about how people who used 5 pawns ingested something harmful or potentially harmful by vaping DA

There is n o real proof of DA causing any harm., in a few isolated cases DA was TTHOUGHT to be the cause.

So many of us decided to stop using that.

now im all for people who have receipts to show they bought 5P because it was DA free and want their money back now,, ok that should be awarded in a false advertising lawsuit But noone can prove they were actually HARMED by buying or vaping 5P e juice

And let us not forget anyone who vapes is taking a risk of harm since no proof exists that vaping is safe. SO regardless of DA the risk of harm exists separate from DA and even if harm was caused by vaping 5P juice one could not definitively say it was from the DA and not form something else say the actual other molecules found in flavors causing the harm.

Now
many things can be in something and be free of it by government standards
like rodent parts on chocolate or insect parts etc. 5P was playing that game feeling their DA content was low enough to be call DA free. And if you think the government wouldnt establish guidelines to say an ejuice has to contain no more then this much DA and you can call it DA free your kidding yourself. Now I dont claim to know what the government will or will not do. I just know some of whats possible. So in a government regulated industry, 5P juice as is could still eventually be labeled DA free

While I do not agree with 5P and how they did things, their way could be the future when the government has their say, and if it is ok then why should they pay for harm that cant be proved now.

you want a refund for juice you bought under a false claim. Prove you bought it and you should get your money back, Thats the most I feel anyone deserves.

As far as making 5P pay for their actions, I doubt it will happen, but I think they did loose a significant amount of sales over the debacle

 

[ChrisL]

it just seems to me 5 pawns is like Provape; a very polarizing company. Either you really really like their products, or they are the AntiChrist. Jealousy of Five Pawns success has a lot to do with this. Build up something great, then tear it down. We relish seeing the big guy being brought down, for any reason. Now granted, Five pawns screwed up big time, got caught, tried to cover it up, and now is paying the price. Hopefully, they will survive and change their business practices and bring ex smokers like us great flavors of high qulity e juice, and the rest the industry will take notice. This is a lose-lose situation for everyone. The antis and the FDA will use this lawsuit as proof the government and big tobacco/pharm are the only ones who can safely manufacture e juice, or it must be regulated out of existence.

 

[stevegmu]

@stevegmu you posted about how people who used 5 pawns ingested something harmful or potentially harmful by vaping DA

There is n o real proof of DA causing any harm., in a few isolated cases DA was TTHOUGHT to be the cause.

So many of us decided to stop using that.

now im all for people who have receipts to show they bought 5P because it was DA free and want their money back now,, ok that should be awarded in a false advertising lawsuit But noone can prove they were actually HARMED by buying or vaping 5P e juice

And let us not forget anyone who vapes is taking a risk of harm since no proof exists that vaping is safe. SO regardless of DA the risk of harm exists separate from DA and even if harm was caused by vaping 5P juice one could not definitively say it was from the DA and not form something else say the actual other molecules found in flavors causing the harm.

Now
many things can be in something and be free of it by government standards
like rodent parts on chocolate or insect parts etc. 5P was playing that game feeling their DA content was low enough to be call DA free. And if you think the government wouldnt establish guidelines to say an ejuice has to contain no more then this much DA and you can call it DA free your kidding yourself. Now I dont claim to know what the government will or will not do. I just know some of whats possible. So in a government regulated industry, 5P juice as is could still eventually be labeled DA free

While I do not agree with 5P and how they did things, their way could be the future when the government has their say, and if it is ok then why should they pay for harm that cant be proved now.

you want a refund for juice you bought under a false claim. Prove you bought it and you should get your money back, Thats the most I feel anyone deserves.

As far as making 5P pay for their actions, I doubt it will happen, but I think they did loose a significant amount of sales over the debacle

They lied concerning an ingredient which legitimate vendors do not use and test for, for a reason. No one knows how vaping diacetyl can affect someone, as there have been no long term studies on the subject, yet researchers in the field have cautioned against its use. Putting people at risk intentionally carries consequences. They should be put out of business. It is companies like them which are why regulations concerning testing and ingredients are needed...

 

[Mattp169]

They lied concerning an ingredient which legitimate vendors do not use and test for, for a reason. No one knows how vaping diacetyl can affect someone, as there have been no long term studies on the subject, yet researchers in the field have cautioned against its use. Putting people at risk intentionally carries consequences. They should be put out of business. It is companies like them which are why regulations concerning testing and ingredients are needed...

what are you talking about? plenty of places have and still use DA in their juice. you have decided tha if a place uses DA they are not legitimate. I really dont understand your use of the word in this situation

Granted many people are moving away from DA/AP as ingredients, some of that is by choice, some of it is because the flavor makers are reformulating. So even if a company that did have juice which contained AP and now that same flavor doesnt it may not be to any conscious decision they made to be legitimate in your definition. It could simply be because the flavor makers changed the formula of the flavors that company uses in their juice. SO a company becomes legitimate by your definition then by not doing anything themselves and may not even care or know about DA.

Now
I agree we put a lot of faith in any juice or flavor manufacturer to be putting the least harmful ingredients in the juice we vape. Theirs plenty of room for these manufacturers to put anything in the juice, its not like we are chemically analyzing every 30ml bottle we purchase.

SO there is a reason to be worried and concerned about what you vape.
2 things about that
#1
we assume that Pg and VG inhalation is relatively SAFE based on many studies and research and the use of it in other aersolized products over the years.
theres no difference in risk of nicotine inhalation between vaping and cigarettes and we an actually remove it from the equation if we choose or limit the amounts if we choose
however, i have never seen anyone claim that theres no risk to vaping flavorings. we know oil based ones are bad and now we are concerned with DA/AP in flavors

But nothing is proven......vaping seems to be and by the latest research should be much much healthier and safer then smoking
IT COULD STILL BE PROVEN TO BE HARMFUL IN THE FUTURE REGARDLESS OF DA/AP

#2
Government regulation does not mean anything will be safer. ONE WOULD HOPE that would be the end result, but that is not a given

NOW saying 5p lied.... thats subjective

given government regulations allow insect and rodent parts to be in are foods and not be reported in the ingredients proves the government will allow things in anything up to a certain amount.

So lets say the government regulates ejuice, and says you can have this much DA/AP and call it DA/AP free. And those amounts are higher then what 5p had in their own reports or the cloud 9 reports? What then??????? Does everyone who called 5p liars apologize??? I doubt it

the only reason 5- is actually technically inaccurate in their statement is because THERE ARE NO REGULATIONS OR GUIDELINES

Regulations and guidelines only give a company a number or % to hide behind when someone calls them out. So wen you say we need regulations, you actually may be asking for something that would prove 5P statements of DA/AP free to be correct by regulation standards.

 

[stevegmu]

what are you talking about? plenty of places have and still use DA in their juice. you have decided tha if a place uses DA they are not legitimate. I really dont understand your use of the word in this situation

Granted many people are moving away from DA/AP as ingredients, some of that is by choice, some of it is because the flavor makers are reformulating. So even if a company that did have juice which contained AP and now that same flavor doesnt it may not be to any conscious decision they made to be legitimate in your definition. It could simply be because the flavor makers changed the formula of the flavors that company uses in their juice. SO a company becomes legitimate by your definition then by not doing anything themselves and may not even care or know about DA.

Now
I agree we put a lot of faith in any juice or flavor manufacturer to be putting the least harmful ingredients in the juice we vape. Theirs plenty of room for these manufacturers to put anything in the juice, its not like we are chemically analyzing every 30ml bottle we purchase.

SO there is a reason to be worried and concerned about what you vape.
2 things about that
#1
we assume that Pg and VG inhalation is relatively SAFE based on many studies and research and the use of it in other aersolized products over the years.
theres no difference in risk of nicotine inhalation between vaping and cigarettes and we an actually remove it from the equation if we choose or limit the amounts if we choose
however, i have never seen anyone claim that theres no risk to vaping flavorings. we know oil based ones are bad and now we are concerned with DA/AP in flavors

But nothing is proven......vaping seems to be and by the latest research should be much much healthier and safer then smoking
IT COULD STILL BE PROVEN TO BE HARMFUL IN THE FUTURE REGARDLESS OF DA/AP

#2
Government regulation does not mean anything will be safer. ONE WOULD HOPE that would be the end result, but that is not a given

NOW saying 5p lied.... thats subjective

given government regulations allow insect and rodent parts to be in are foods and not be reported in the ingredients proves the government will allow things in anything up to a certain amount.

So lets say the government regulates ejuice, and says you can have this much DA/AP and call it DA/AP free. And those amounts are higher then what 5p had in their own reports or the cloud 9 reports? What then??????? Does everyone who called 5p liars apologize??? I doubt it

the only reason 5- is actually technically inaccurate in their statement is because THERE ARE NO REGULATIONS OR GUIDELINES

Regulations and guidelines only give a company a number or % to hide behind when someone calls them out. So wen you say we need regulations, you actually may be asking for something that would prove 5P statements of DA/AP free to be correct by regulation standards.

The shady vendors who can't make e-liquid which tastes good without it still use it; not so much other vendors. Companies in the business for a quick buck before regulations put them out of business are who I am referring to. I don't see them as any more legitimate than Chinese 'clone' manufacturers...
I never understood the insect and rodent analogy. I guess it is a cop out for those against any regulation. I just can't imagine the mess the food and restaurant industry would be if there were no regulations, given there will always be companies who take shortcuts to increase profits, or use nefarious ingredients to get customers hooked on their products- like diacetyl or MSG...
I don't think any DA/AP will be allowed, short of trace amounts. NIOSH is against its use. It isn't needed and can be removed from flavorings. If one can not get a good vape without creamy custards, so be it.
Did you see the numbers their e-liquids tested at? Far, far above trace amounts...
In the end, this thread is about a company which operated without any regulation, morals or honesty and is being sued as a result. If vaping is to ever be seen as anything but a fringe hobby or alternative method for nicotine addicts to get their fix, companies like this need to go away and a $5 million judgement against them is a good start...

 

[backdoc]

Sorry, can't help myself......... Steve , you are like a broken record ( American phrase for someone continuing to say the same thing)

 

[z man]

O,things are so much clearer from up where they perch....Z

 

[stevegmu]

Sorry, can't help myself......... Steve , you are like a broken record ( American phrase for someone continuing to say the same thing)

Perhaps you shouldn't follow me around reading my posts...

 

[backdoc]

Yes , that's right , I'll leave you to spread the good word of the FDA and government intervention , goodnight

 

[stevegmu]

Yes , that's right , I'll leave you to spread the good word of the FDA and government intervention , goodnight

You may be surprised to find out that in a free society some have the ability to think for themselves and draw conclusions on their own, rather than be mindless followers, thinking only of 'protecting' their own addiction or hobby...

 

[Mattp169]

@stevegmu , i'll have to disagree with you ASSUMPTION that anyone who uses DA/AP in their juices is shady.
1.it is not 100% accepted that having DA/AP in your juice is bad
2.a manufacturer may not even be informed enough to know that many people fell da/ap is bad
3.a manufacturer may believe they are using flavors that are da/ap free but the flavor manufacturer did not disclose this information
4. a manufacturer may believe they are not using da/ap and is using incorrect information
5. even those who believe da/ap may not be good, some believe it would still be ok to use it in in moderation and still want juice that has it in it, therefore a manufacturer is filling a want in the market.

I will also have to disagree that your assumption that government intervention will improve the quality of ingredients in ejuice. there is no evidence to support that. It is only 1 possible outcome of government interference in the market

 

[stevegmu]

@stevegmu , i'll have to disagree with you ASSUMPTION that anyone who uses DA/AP in their juices is shady.
1.it is not 100% accepted that having DA/AP in your juice is bad
2.a manufacturer may not even be informed enough to know that many people fell da/ap is bad
3.a manufacturer may believe they are using flavors that are da/ap free but the flavor manufacturer did not disclose this information
4. a manufacturer may believe they are not using da/ap and is using incorrect information
5. even those who believe da/ap may not be good, some believe it would still be ok to use it in in moderation and still want juice that has it in it, therefore a manufacturer is filling a want in the market.

I will also have to disagree that your assumption that government intervention will improve the quality of ingredients in ejuice. there is no evidence to support that. It is only 1 possible outcome of government interference in the market

The companies I consider legitimate test...
Would the food industry be safer if all regulations were lifted?

 

[Mattp169]

The companies I consider legitimate test...
Would the food industry be safer if all regulations were lifted?

one could argue both ways on that
what about GMOs are they really safe?
Assuming you need government for the best outcome also assumes that people will do wrong more often then do good and also assumes government will always do the best thing.

one must realize, the world has changed. social media has revolutionized the way many receive information. it is much harder now for any company to do wrong regardless of government intervention. one could argue, that government intervention is now the reason some companies can do bad,

 

[stevegmu]

one could argue both ways on that
what about GMOs are they really safe?
Assuming you need government for the best outcome also assumes that people will do wrong more often then do good and also assumes government will always do the best thing.

one must realize, the world has changed. social media has revolutionized the way many receive information. it is much harder now for any company to do wrong regardless of government intervention. one could argue, that government intervention is now the reason some companies can do bad,

No idea about GMOs. I'm all about natural foods, so avoid them, however...
Regulations are there as a last resort when companies like Five Pawns exist and when business owners seek to increase profits by cutting corners...
Waiting until after many die or get sick to do anything is what countries like China do...

 

[martinelias]

The companies I consider legitimate test...
Would the food industry be safer if all regulations were lifted?

Now a days usda, agriculture, fda, etc. is more about keeping private business out and keeping food giants in and less on actual food safety.
You'd be surprised what is legal in food industry in United States and what information is allowed to be withheld.
They're even passing laws in some states where it's illegal to go in slaughterhouses undercover to film what goes on behind closed doors.
Government doesn't control for our wellbeing it controls to keep big man with pockets full having government intervene with vaping business is the worst that could happen to us.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

[stevegmu]

If these things go on under regulation, I can't imagine what would go on without any...

 

[Time]

The lawsuit, originating in California, reads like an anti-vaping campaign with all the pseudo-science.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/289626827/Five-Pawns-Class-Action-Lawsuit

34.
According to a subsequent study by the CDC, nearly 1.8 million middle and high school students tried e-cigarettes in 2011 and 2012, including approximately 160,000 students who had never used conventional cigarettes.

6

The study also found that the number of U.S. middle and high school student e-smokers doubled between 2011 and 2012.

 

[MD_Boater]

Five Pawns and others are just a product of an industry with no regulation. There are many more like them...

Based on the comments in here, the industry IS regulated.

Independent consumer testing discovered the problem, and customers stopped purchasing the product.

To me, it looks like the vaping industry is being regulated perfectly. No government involvement needed. We got this. Thanks anyway.

 

[stevegmu]

Based on the comments in here, the industry IS regulated.

Independent consumer testing discovered the problem, and customers stopped purchasing the product.

To me, it looks like the vaping industry is being regulated perfectly. No government involvement needed. We got this. Thanks anyway.

Most vapers aren't on vaping forums, so would have no idea about the controversy. Vaping should be safe for all, not just for hobbyists on forums...

 

[Whiskey]

yea right says.....

Agent for Nonconforming Truth and common Sense...

 

[Time]

Most vapers aren't on vaping forums, so would have no idea about the controversy. Vaping should be safe for all, not just for hobbyists on forums...

Who died from vaping, forum or no forum?

 

[stevegmu]

Who died from vaping, forum or no forum?

I didn't die nor have any adverse affects from smoking 20 years. Does that mean smoking cigarettes is safe?
There are no studies concerning long term inhalation of DA/AP. Dr. F and NIOSH have said they should be avoided. I trust their judgement over the makers and sellers of questionable e-liquids...I don't care if some want to vape huge quantities of diacetyl. It's up to them. Those who don't know better shouldn't be exposed to it without warning, however...

 

[Time]

I didn't die nor have any adverse affects from smoking 20 years. Does that mean smoking cigarettes is safe?
There are no studies concerning long term inhalation of DA/AP. Dr. F and NIOSH have said they should be avoided. I trust their judgement over the makers and sellers of questionable e-liquids...

I can name several people that died from smoking. That you didn't die is moot. Who you trust is moot. Your opinion on who and what is safe is moot.

Now, let's get back to who died from vaping?

 

[stevegmu]

I can name several people that died from smoking. That you didn't die is moot. Who you trust is moot. Your opinion on who and what is safe is moot.

Now, let's get back to who died from vaping?

E cigs haven't been around long enough to know; just as not many die from smoking related illnesses after just a few years. Death isn't the end all. There are far worse things than death, such as not being able to breathe unassisted for the last 20 years of one's life...
If experts in the field say not to vape diacetyl, I trust them more than 'forum experts'...

 

[Time]

E cigs haven't been around long enough to know; just as not many die from smoking related illnesses after just a few years.

Exactly. So your claims of safety concerns for non forum members are premature.

 

[stevegmu]

Exactly. So your claims of safety concerns for non forum members are premature.

Not so much. No need to wait until vapers come down with popcorn lung or COPD en masse. It is an ingredient which good vendors don't need to use and which ordinary vapers should not be exposed to unknowingly...

 

[Time]

Not so much. No need to wait until vapers come down with popcorn lung or COPD en masse. It is an ingredient which good vendors don't need to use and which ordinary vapers should not be exposed to unknowingly...

The same could be said for all flavor ingredients. In the end, you have nothing but a guess to go by. Nobody dead or even diseased for that matter yet. Like I said, premature. Using your argument, you shouldn't vape at all. That's the only safe alternative.

Everybody knows, or should, that vaping carries risk and they do it anyway. Claiming they wouldn't if they knew about one ingredient that has yet to cause disease or death in a single case of smoking or vaping is ridiculous.

 

[stevegmu]

The same could be said for all flavor ingredients. In the end, you have nothing but a guess to go by. Nobody dead or even diseased for that matter yet. Like I said, premature. Using your argument, you shouldn't vape at all. That's the only safe alternative.

Everybody knows, or should, that vaping carries risk and they do it anyway. Claiming they wouldn't if they knew about one ingredient that has yet to cause disease or death in a single case of smoking or vaping is ridiculous.

Non flavored probably is the safest, but no other ingredient has raised flags like DA/AP has...
I suppose it can be left up to the media or government to raise the awareness concerning DA/AP. I would have thought vendors would have tested and disclosed, but that clearly is not the case in this fly by night money grab...

 

[Time]

Non flavored probably is the safest, but no other ingredient has raised flags like DA/AP has...
I suppose it can be left up to the media or government to raise the awareness concerning DA/AP. I would have thought vendors would have tested and disclosed, but that clearly is not the case in this fly by night money grab...

DA/AP has only raised flags from those guilty conscience folks that couldn't quit smoking so they switched to vaping and in their fear that their new found vice to replace the old vice might also carry risk of it's own they find a witch behind every tree. First it was "cheap chinese juice", now it's DA/AP, brass fittings, the type of wicking all the way up to getting ebola from eliquid. None of which has any basis to an actual case of vaping harm. Except vaping oil based liquid. That's not a good idea. It's just good old fashioned fear mongering.

DA/AP is just one of a long list of unproven fears from exsmokers that found a new guilty pleasure and must satisfy to themselves they are doing something to keep themselves safe(er).

 

[stevegmu]

DA/AP has only raised flags from those guilty conscience folks that couldn't quit smoking so they switched to vaping and in their fear that their new found vice to replace the old vice might also carry risk of it's own they find a witch behind every tree. First it was "cheap chinese juice", now it's DA/AP, brass fittings, the type of wicking all the way up to getting ebola from eliquid. None of which has any basis to an actual case of vaping harm. Except vaping oil based liquid. That's not a good idea. It's just good old fashioned fear mongering.

Really? It was the good vendors- like Johnson Creek and Halo, which realized early on it was a potentially dangerous ingredient, so made great e-liquids without it. Those who couldn't- like Five Pawns, used it and deceived the public... Dr. F is all about promoting safer vaping, not relieving his guilty conscience. Those in favor of non disclosure seem to be the ones with issues, perhaps due to desperation...

 

[Time]

Really? It was the good vendors- like Johnson Creek and Halo, which realized early on it was a potentially dangerous ingredient, so made great e-liquids without it. Those who couldn't- like Five Pawns, used it and deceived the public... Dr. F is all about promoting safer vaping, not relieving his guilty conscience. Those in favor of non disclosure seem to be the ones with issues, perhaps due to desperation...

LOL. They made eliquid without it because they could sell it to guilt ridden ex smokers that didn't even know they'd been smoking the stuff for years.

Dr. F is a cardiologist. That is all he is. He has done no studies on vaping and DA/AP.

Nobody said any thing about non disclosure. Your claim is that vaping should be safe for all. I'm simply saying that there is no proof that vaping is safer without DA/AP.

 

[stevegmu]

LOL. They made eliquid without it because they could sell it to guilt ridden ex smokers that didn't even know they'd been smoking the stuff for years.

Dr. F is a cardiologist. That is all he is. He has done no studies on vaping and DA/AP.

Nobody said any thing about non disclosure. Your claim is that vaping should be safe for all. I'm simply saying that there is no proof that vaping is safer without DA/AP.

You may have no respect for Dr. F or his research, but I'm pretty sure the experts at NIOSH who have raised concerns over DA/AP know a bit more about the dangers than those on forums or e-liquid manufacturers who use said ingredients. By all means, continue to vape it...
Yes, testing and full disclosure of a substance which may be deadly would make vaping safer for all...

 

[Hottvapz]

Here is my thing. I was going to die smoking 2 packs a day. I couldn't run or do anything that I use to enjoy doing anymore. I can now run 5 miles a day and feel overall better. If the juice I am vaping contains these things I don't care. I knew there were risks when I started. There is no viable proof either way. My overall current health is by far better. So I don't care. If I get sick when I'm old at least I enjoyed my younger years.

 

[MC5]

I plan on living and vaping for another 20 years or so, and as a result keep my eye on various flavorings and their risks over the long term. Maybe I've started to take better care of myself now that I've gotten off the smokes. That's my choice but I don't think I have a right to dictate anybody else's choice.

In any case, that's not what this lawsuit is about. It's about Five Pawns making false claims about ingredients after their own testing showed them the truth. I don't like being lied to and their dishonesty is what put them in this spot.

 

[stevegmu]

I plan on living and vaping for another 20 years or so, and as a result keep my eye on various flavorings and their risks over the long term. Maybe I've started to take better care of myself now that I've gotten off the smokes. That's my choice but I don't think I have a right to dictate anybody else's choice.

In any case, that's not what this lawsuit is about. It's about Five Pawns making false claims about ingredients after their own testing showed them the truth. I don't like being lied to and their dishonesty is what put them in this spot.

Yeah. Some of us quit smoking to live healthier, not carry on willy nilly...