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What’s Really Going On in China? COPIED from v4p3r.com
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Midniteoyl
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Um... no
tombaker
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You realize that guy has more Youtube views regulary on a single Vaping video, than every Mod Envy show ever posted, all combined and added together?
Midniteoyl
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Thats mostly 'cause of his other channel and what he discusses that is not vape related.
V4P3R.com is an independent site that is not affiliated in any way with Vapor Joe's, Vaping Underground, or VU Live. The linked video are Joe's opinions...opinions that reflect others that have been shared around the vaping community here, on Reddit, and in online vaping-related chat.
I was responding to the various posts about Joe's rants V4P3R, I'll try to be more clear in the future so it's easier to comprehend.
upstate
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After spending time reading through this post. I got the feeling that most people on here are mature adults. Business is business. It doesn't matter if you're selling cars,clothes or vaping gear. We (vapors) should not expect to be treated any different from other consumers. Anyone that thinks otherwise is delusional. Get a grip on reality and don't waste time worrying about shit you have no control over. They're not out to get us, only our money. If you like the product do your research. Buy or don't buy.
tombaker
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Maybe the confusion is that you have been vaping for under 60 days, have a website that says "the web's premier vaping emag", and you are questioning the integrity of a couple of the most respected vape reviewers, and parroting VaporJoe without any critical thought.
When you say "The linked video are Joe's opinions"
1. It is wrong grammar.
2. One has to wonder if you were not totally parroting Joe on your comments, how or why you would need to clarify, that his words are his own.
Coming from someone who has spent most of the last two weeks in this thread posting tinfoil hattery, I will take your appraisal under due consideration.
I think you're confused. Hell, now I'm confused. This whole fucking thread is confusing. Where's the 'unwatch thread' button....... There it is. See ya.
Celtic Fog
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No, it's "wrong".
tombaker
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1. This thread was started on Sunday, its not even 1 week old, and you cite nothing specific.
2. Posted you are a new Vaper on November 30.
3. You are running a website saying it's "the web's premier vaping emag"
4. You are questioning the integrity of a couple of the most respected vape reviewers.
Did I get something wrong? I think if you write a blog you should take some about of feedback. Perhaps your "secrets" blog entry's speculation, is wrong.
Celtic Fog
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Just let it go @V4P3R eMAG , you will find that tombaker is more trouble than its worth. He loves to log in and talk down to people more than he actually contributes to anything.
Weren't you just chastising him about grammar a post or two ago?
Yeah, I don't GAF what you got to say either. The vape mag is well written, and contain good articles. The reviewers in question are about as "respected" a discarded tissue.
Have a smile and a Coke and STFU.
1. I said nothing about this thread's age. I said YOU have spent most of the last two weeks here in this thread. Reading comprehension level 3rd grade = locked.
2. The current price of hogs is 76.65. I can make pointless statements, too.
3. I can also pat my head and rub my belly at the same time. Cool, eh?
4. I am questioning the motives of two vape reviewers. Their level of integrity is subjective, a point well illustrated in this thread.
Ye who lives in glass grammar houses should not cast stones, @tombaker. You also butchered an Oxford comma.
I welcome all feedback, however pointless trolling by keyboard warriors is not welcome. You've already had your ears slapped back in the past few comments, so I see no need to beat a dead horse. You disagree with my article, we all get it. Move on. If you don't like my blog, don't read it.
Hey ,I respect all these opinions ( and get some laughs ) ,but why not wait until they have a chance to speak . The only thing I found strange ,and maybe I am mistaken , but all I heard was " we are going to China " but no mention of who is picking up the tab . That should have been said from the start to avoid some of this stuff . Just my opinion .
tombaker
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That you are, and it shows a real lack of understanding of what is going on. You have been vaping for about 60 days, and you are already professing on your Vaping E-Mag. I am not reading you wrong, and when you keep doing these insults, as if I can not read it reflects the confidence of the merits of what you wrote.
We shall see in today and in the days ahead, the reports out from the trip. Your article and speculation are way out in front. I think you will need to post retractions and/or say you are wrong. We shall see.
tombaker
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I agree with you Jack. But I do think its safe to assume that their bill was picked up by the companies that wanted them there for the SEVIA conference, and to look at their factories.
Much like when they show up to various vape meets, and are listed as the invited guest of the Vape meets.....I expect the Vape Meet to pick up the entire tab, and hopeful a bit more than expenses, as they have to be away from their families at those travel events.
vaperature
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Good God the amount of hero worship in this community is amazing. Phil and Dimitri are grown men and can defend themselves. They don't need a horde of fanboys bashing anyone who raises an eyebrow.
Midniteoyl
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Hero worship hell.. Just the amount of bullshit. All around.
vaperature
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Well the way I see it is that you can't wear two hats at the same time. Either you are a "promoter" or you are a "critic". Being a promoter is objective but being a critic is subjective. If you try to wear both hats at the same time, then when you give an unfavorable review, people are going to protest "why are you bashing vaping--you're suppose to be a promoter"; and when you go as a promoter and schmooze with the very people who are making the products, people are going to protest "why are you making friends--how can you now give an honest review of their products?" In any tight knit community it's easy to wear both hats, almost impossible not to. You don't want to be friendless in your little community so you schmooze with people and then you end up having to review their products and yes, I guarantee you, your reviews are going to be self-censored to a point unless you want to lose your friends. We all hang out in the vaping community and it seems like the whole world but in truth it has been a very tight knit community. Pull anyone off the street and ask him/her about vaping and chances are he/she won't even know what you're talking about. But as the community grows, you have to decide which hat you want to wear. You can't wear both without there being a conflict of interest. Now I respect Phil, he's helped me out a lot and I've actually had an email conversation with him in which I told him that, but, yes, when he is seen with his arm wrapped around the very person making the products that he's reviewing as a critic, it does raise some eyebrows. Because when he gives a thumbs up or a thumbs down he can help make or break a product, and we, as fans, would like to feel confident that his opinion isn't influenced by his chances of getting invited back to China next year. Maybe it's time he decided which hat he wants to wear. Is he a promoter? Or is he a critic?
Tonight on #smokefreeradio “China Recap” with @pbusardo Vapes, Street Food and Clones! Show starts 9:00pm EST http://****/FU7Ncf40[url]http://vapersplace.com/d3[/URL] #ecigs
I know nothing of this phil-in-china subject, but that quote is just beautiful, man.
Midniteoyl
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I dunno.. Every Chinese product he has reviewed, he has found many faults with, and said so.. Even 2 thumbs down.. Yet those same people seem to have thought enough of his reviews that they still invited him over..
vaperature
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Would it make sense for you to invite the people who are ALREADY giving you good reviews? What would that accomplish? They're ALREADY on your side. No, you'd invite the ones that aren't giving you good press in hopes of changing their minds.
Midniteoyl
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It whether the integrity of the person being swooned can withstand it.. So the integrity of Phil and Dimitri are whats in question.. I get it.
Lobbyists are always trying to change the minds of others. In consumerism its called 'advertising'
vaperature
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There is no man on the face of this earth who has unlimited integrity. Just look at all the presidents who get elected with great integrity who come out of it four or eight years lately completely corrupted. Once you open Pandora's box, it's open. There are certain ways critics are expected to behave in order to maintain that integrity. Partying with and accepting gifts from the people you are reviewing is a major no-no. I don't blame Phil. He started a YouTube channel and probably never dreamed it would take off the way it did. But now he's here. People have their eye on him whether he likes it or not. He needs to be conscious of that and behave like a critic behaves. Either that, or drop the critic hat completely and be a promoter exclusively concentrating on things he feels comfortable promoting without even mentioning the stuff he would give a thumbs down toIt whether the integrity of the person being swooned can withstand it.. So the integrity of Phil and Dimitri are whats in question.. I get it.
Lobbyists are always trying to change the minds of others. In consumerism its called 'advertising'
From the #smokefree podcast:
1. Phil and Dimitri have been wooed for a trip to China since the Vegas vape convention in July 2014.
2. Innokin footed most of the bill, including a business class flight and hotel...with Kanger and Aspire "chipping in".
3. Brandon (Evolv) and Trent (Hana) were there for "business" and didn't spend a lot of time with Phil and Dimitri.
4. On Monday, they spent most of the day at Innokin.
Honestly guys, that's all I could listen to. I kept falling asleep. All the bromance and fawning all over Innokin made for a boring podcast. If they ever get around to talking about the rest of their trip, maybe someone else will post it here.
1. Phil and Dimitri have been wooed for a trip to China since the Vegas vape convention in July 2014.
2. Innokin footed most of the bill, including a business class flight and hotel...with Kanger and Aspire "chipping in".
3. Brandon (Evolv) and Trent (Hana) were there for "business" and didn't spend a lot of time with Phil and Dimitri.
4. On Monday, they spent most of the day at Innokin.
Honestly guys, that's all I could listen to. I kept falling asleep. All the bromance and fawning all over Innokin made for a boring podcast. If they ever get around to talking about the rest of their trip, maybe someone else will post it here.
Midniteoyl
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You listened more than I did .. zzzzzzzz
vaperature
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Yeah, except in any other industry, the reviewer would be sent on the dime of the publication or media outlet he works for, not on the dime of the corporation whose products he's reviewing. Try to understand the conflict of interest in that. Just imagine you have something you want reviewed, a piece of art, a book, a movie, whatever. So you not only invite the critic to review it, but you pay his air fair to come review it, you pay for his hotel room, you treat him to luxurious fancy dinners, you even hang out with him to do photo ops. Does that sound right to you?
Midniteoyl
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Even critics get swooned.. Happens all the time in every business. Doesnt mean 'somethings going on'..
vaperature
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Yes it DOES mean something's going on. Any critic working for any major media outlet who was photographed being wined and dined by the person he's suppose to be reviewing would have his employment terminated, pronto.
Just like the ref stepping off the Cowboy's party bus, right?
Naw, it doesn't affect the integrity of the refs at all!
It's important that it gets exposed. You know?
vaperature
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That's actually a pretty good analogy.
That's called conflict of interest among other things..
Midniteoyl
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Um... little different? Its not like Phil controls your destiny.. Now if he was a judge I had to have preside over my case and he was seen choking down the prosecutor's dick, then ya, that would concern me. As said, that would be a 'conflict of interest'...
vaperature
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So do you really think now that he's been wined and dined by Innokin and treated to what had to have been an extremely exotic vacation for him, during which he was treated like a king, that there's any chance in hell he's giving the MVP3 a shitty review? Come on, be honest about it. Also, do you think if someone from Innokin would have taken him aside and said, "I hear your daughter is starting up a charity. I just want to help out. Here's a check for ten grand" do you think he would take it with a big thank you, or would he say, "No, as the person assigned by the public with the task of giving your products an honest review, I cannot morally accept this gesture." I'm just sayin'.
Update:
Got my 2nd wind on the podcast. They're now joking that even the Chinese were making fun of the Phil/Dimitri bromance. Putting up signs, and one company (sorry I missed the name...e-gate maybe?) gave them a Phil
Dimitri box mod to take home.
Got my 2nd wind on the podcast. They're now joking that even the Chinese were making fun of the Phil/Dimitri bromance. Putting up signs, and one company (sorry I missed the name...e-gate maybe?) gave them a Phil
Dimitri box mod to take home.
vaperature
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That's the point. He doesn't work for any media outlet. I give him credit for starting up a youtube channel and becoming a celebrity but that's all he is really. As far as I know, he doesn't have any journalistic background (I could be wrong, correct me if so), and he's under no threat of losing his self-appointed job, which makes him all the more vulnerable to be influenced. Let's face it, he's who he is because he was one of the first to do what he's doing. I think he's great at it. I've learned a lot from him. But now that the industry is growing he's either going to have to develop some professional standards or I suspect someone more professional will step in and take his seat on the pedestal.What publication or media outlet does he work for? How much money has anyone spent to watch any of his reviews? Was he supposed to decline the trip?
I feel like Towlie. I have no idea what's going on.
Midniteoyl
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Exactly! He does NOT have some kind of control over my life.. He's not being paid by someone to critique.. or even be a watch dog... he doesnt work for the government... he's not elected.. he does not make any law, or determine my quilt in trespassing them.. he cannot, legally, detain me.. he doesnt determine if I work.. Nothing. No control. He is a nobody working for no one. If there is no control, there is no conflict.What publication or media outlet does he work for? How much money has anyone spent to watch any of his reviews? Was he supposed to decline the trip?
I feel like Towlie. I have no idea what's going on.