HCIGAR VT133/VT167 Dual 18650 DNA200/250

["11"]

And here you go. Ecig replied...

They need the last four of your ssn, not the whole number, and they need that and a birthday that they cross reference with a data base to make sure you are who you say you are, we then need a copy of the DL sent to [email protected]. tts what the new FDA regulations require us to do

This &^%$# ridiculous. And unacceptable. If enough people just say no, companies can start filing lawsuits against the FDA (class action lawsuits) that the regs are causing undue hardship on their businesses. The more businesses that do that, the better for the lawsuit already filed that is arguing that very point (for different reasons) as one of the many reasons the reg's are unlawful. I am sorry our USA business would have to go this route and many will just fold when they lose enough business (though some people won't think twice about handing over personal info)... but I hope enough say no that this helps break the FDA regs.

 

["11"]

I am out myself. TGIF

I think it's Thursday, but Friday works for me. And I'm off as well... one thing is for sure. Vaping is not going anywhere. Just like prohibition didn't make alcohol go away. The FDA will lose in the end.

 

[Elites]

Well guys, this is as much fun as I can stand. I'm calling it a night. Take care everyone!

Good night and please Pray that Court take steps in favors of vaping community. May God bless vaping and May God bless America, Amen.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Well guys, this is as much fun as I can stand. I'm calling it a night. Take care everyone!

later dude

 

[Infinite1]

I think it's Thursday, but Friday works for me. And I'm off as well... one thing is for sure. Vaping is not going anywhere. Just like prohibition didn't make alcohol go away. The FDA will lose in the end.

There will def be a black market should it come to that. Funny, when I started vaping over 4 years ago, places like FastTech and Health cabin...it looks like whays old is new again on that front.

I agree, it is certainly nice to buy from an American company...this absolutely sucks. 11, what city are you in here in CA? And have you reached out to your rep yet?

I'm in Sacramento now via the Bay Area and have reached out to both reps. The one here in Sac has been responsive. We got to hit them at the State level to push our agenda and get them to bend to help us out with the FDA.

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

 

[SirRichardRear]

I'm also in CA but never order juice as I DIY. I wonder if the postman is called upon to check ID when delivering alcohol? Tobacco?? Prescription pills??? Nope! How ridiculous is this!

My friend ordered a case of like 50 bottles of wine off amazon, He didn't have to go through any of these steps. It makes no sense. Also in CA

All the FDA did, is kill American businesses and let china take over the market, which cost them tax money because we all know nobody pays any tax on stuff purchased out of the country.

 

[Deucesjack]

Exactly why we need someone that's going to go to Washington and knock the table over. These advocacy groups are all corrupt. Think about it logically for a second. The advocacy groups exist because of the problem with the FDA. Their livelihoods are dependent on that problem. Why would anyone in their right mind send them money to solve the problems that put food on their tables. That will never happen. They will never try for a total win. The advocacy groups will only try for temporary solutions that string out the the problem so they have a justification for their very existence.

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[BoostAddict]

Exactly why we need someone that's going to go to Washington and knock the table over. These advocacy groups are all corrupt. Think about it logically for a second. The advocacy groups exist because of the problem with the FDA. Their livelihoods are dependent on that problem. Why would anyone in their right mind send them money to solve the problems that put food on their tables. That will never happen. They will never try for a total win. The advocacy groups will only try for temporary solutions that string out the the problem so they have a justification for their very existence.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

Great point! It's a conspiracy theory, but make sense lol.

 

[Deucesjack]

Great point! It's a conspiracy theory, but make sense lol.

Not a conspiracy theory it's the way Washington works. The ultimate goal of the advocacy group is to pivot to a lobbyists group. That's the end goal for them. They don't want to solve the problem. They want to create enough of them so they still have work. Look at their results so far. They have as many wins as me and I'm not an advocate. They want the industry to blow up so they can come in and save a piece of it. That's why I lost a lot of respect for people in the industry preaching advocacy. It's a scam plain and simple. Hold on to your money and stock up. Don't get pulled into the bullshit.

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[sandduner8]

Not a conspiracy theory it's the way Washington works. The ultimate goal of the advocacy group is to pivot to a lobbyists group. That's the end goal for them. They don't want to solve the problem. They want to create enough of them so they still have work. Look at their results so far. They have as many wins as me and I'm not an advocate. They want the industry to blow up so they can come in and save a piece of it. That's why I lost a lot of respect for people in the industry preaching advocacy. It's a scam plain and simple. Hold on to your money and stock up. Don't get pulled into the bullshit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

This does make total sense . There is no money in a good permanent fix . Cures for illness etc etc


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[Infinite1]

My friend ordered a case of like 50 bottles of wine off amazon, He didn't have to go through any of these steps. It makes no sense. Also in CA

All the FDA did, is kill American businesses and let china take over the market, which cost them tax money because we all know nobody pays any tax on stuff purchased out of the country.

Well to be fair, we don't pay tax out of state from where ya live...but yes overall a death blow to American vendors.

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

 

[Infinite1]

Not a conspiracy theory it's the way Washington works. The ultimate goal of the advocacy group is to pivot to a lobbyists group. That's the end goal for them. They don't want to solve the problem. They want to create enough of them so they still have work. Look at their results so far. They have as many wins as me and I'm not an advocate. They want the industry to blow up so they can come in and save a piece of it. That's why I lost a lot of respect for people in the industry preaching advocacy. It's a scam plain and simple. Hold on to your money and stock up. Don't get pulled into the bullshit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

Which advocacy groups are ya referring to?

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

 

[MagicJosh]

The guy I'm talking about looks like a fat Golem. lmfao

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

Heathen Vapes! NIce fella! I won one of his giveaways back in the days when he started!

 

[Deucesjack]

Which advocacy groups are ya referring to?

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

All of them.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk

 

[Infinite1]

All of them.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk

Hmm, like which one that you can think of then? Not trolling but that is mighty wide blanket without an actual call out. Since we are all in this together, could be helpful to share a name so others could do research...just saying.

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

 

[Wingsfan0310]

Sorry to break up the lunatic for president talk with something actually about Vaping. Tracking shows my Blood Red Lavabox DNA75 has been delivered. I'm anxious to get home to check it out.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

 

[SirRichardRear]

Well to be fair, we don't pay tax out of state from where ya live...but yes overall a death blow to American vendors.

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

True, but businesses still have to pay their taxes. Payroll taxes, business license, create jobs which in turn those employees pay income tax as well as the business itself paying income tax.The government makes money on any open business in the USA

 

[Deucesjack]

Hmm, like which one that you can think of then? Not trolling but that is mighty wide blanket without an actual call out. Since we are all in this together, could be helpful to share a name so others could do research...just saying.

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

Pick one, I dont care which one you pick. They're all the same, created for the same reason and goal. The only slim chance we have is that one of the companies that actually profits from this industry actually wins a lawsuit. I'm talking about mod companies, juice comapnies, etc. That or the ballot box. Advocacy is not the answer because their motivation is not altruistic or even driven by money. Their motivation is to have an on going problem. What have these so called advocacy groups done? Have they won one fight yet? Where's the transparency? How much money have they raised? What are they doing with the money? Any ads? Commercials? I haven't seen any. I see juice companis donating proceeds, I see cloud comps for advocacy. Where's the money and results? Show me something. The only other chance this industry has to vote for representatives that are for less government innvolment. Trust me when I tell advocacy will not be the hero everyone wants them to be but they will profit from this. That is a certainty.

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[Infinite1]

True, but businesses still have to pay their taxes. Payroll taxes, business license, create jobs which in turn those employees pay income tax as well as the business itself paying income tax.The government makes money on any open business in the USA

Yup, as I said- a death blow to American vendors.

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

 

[Deucesjack]

Sorry to break up the lunatic for president talk with something actually about Vaping. Tracking shows my Blood Red Lavabox DNA75 has been delivered. I'm anxious to get home to check it out.

I know what you mean I could never vote for Hillary either. Lmao. Make sure you post some pics of that Lava box.

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[Infinite1]

I know what you mean I could never vote Hillary either. Lmao. Make sure you post some pics of that Lava box.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

Yeah Jack on that note...I think it's about time that you spread this ignorance elsewhere bud. Seriously. "I am no advocate" yet you seem to have nothing short of "divine wisdom" of what we ALL should do? Seriously? This is a joke right? Why are you trolling today man?

Please leave your politics elsewhere. This is not my thread, but I'm highly invested in it... Misinformation and fear mongering is soo not OK. How in good faith can you say that crap about "advocacy" yet feel so entitled to "preach" wisdom Boogeyman activism of get a "bunker, stock up...complain" but do absolutely nothing of substance?

Yes, as you might gather...I am not digging the pessimistic attitude about actually doing something besides complaining and "stocking up". No one that actually cares about the state things have any time for that.

TLR...please leave your "facts" without substance out.



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[BoostAddict]

Sorry to break up the lunatic for president talk with something actually about Vaping. Tracking shows my Blood Red Lavabox DNA75 has been delivered. I'm anxious to get home to check it out.

Congrats! I am looking out my window now waiting

 

[MercuryVaper]

 

[BoostAddict]

 

[Deucesjack]

Yeah Jack on that note...I think it's about time that you spread this ignorance elsewhere bud. Seriously. "I am no advocate" yet you seem to have nothing short of "divine wisdom" of what we ALL should do? Seriously? This is a joke right? Why are you trolling today man?

Please leave your politics elsewhere. This is not my thread, but I'm highly invested in it... Misinformation and fear mongering is soo not OK. How in good faith can you say that crap about "advocacy" yet feel so entitled to "preach" wisdom Boogeyman activism of get a "bunker, stock up...complain" but do absolutely nothing of substance?

Yes, as you might gather...I am not digging the pessimistic attitude about actually doing something besides complaining and "stocking up". No one that actually cares about the state things have any time for that.

TLR...please leave your "facts" without substance out.



Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

Hold on a second. I'm not the guy that brought this thread off topic. This thread went off the rails many posts before mine and many other times in it's lengthy history. Maybe you need to scroll back and take a look. Just because my opinions don't coincide with yours all of the sudden I'm a troll? Let's get something straight, I don't give a fuck if you dig what I'm saying or if you're offended by it. You don't like it hit the ignore button. Just like everyone else here I'm entitled to my opinion about the FDA and advocacy. Who the fuck are you? This threads been off topic a million times and I never once seen you bitch about it until someone expressed a political view that differs from yours. It's a Vt133 thread right? I've seen conversations about Aromamizers, Boreas, Dna75's, music, sports, our children, cars, motorcycles, etc, etc. Never once did you bitch or complain about that. Now all of sudden the thread is off topic and you have a problem. Give me a break dude.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

 

[f1r3b1rd]

can everyone hug and make up?
this thread started as something about a particular device and naturally evolved into a social thread among friends.
- or so I think....
we may not all agree on all things; but, that is the spice of life.
so long as we respect each other.

 

[Deucesjack]

can everyone hug and make up?
this thread started as something about a particular device and naturally evolved into a social thread among friends.
- or so I think....
we may not all agree on all things; but, that is the spice of life.
so long as we respect each other.

Hey man I'm good. I didn't go after anyone in particular until they came after me. I'm willing to let bygones be bygones.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

 

[Infinite1]

Hold on a second. I'm not the guy that brought this thread off topic. This thread went off the rails many posts before mine and many other times in it's lengthy history. Maybe you need to scroll back and take a look. Just because my opinions don't coincide with yours all of the sudden I'm a troll? Let's get something straight, I don't give fuck if you dig what I'm saying or if you're offended by it. You don't like it hit the ignore button. Just like everyone else here I'm entitled to my opinion about the FDA and advocacy. Who the fuck are you? This threads been off topic a million times and I never once seen you bitch about it until someone expressed a political view that differs from yours. It's a Vt133 thread right? I've seen conversations about Aromamizers, Boreas, Dna75's, music, sports, our children, cars, mototrcycetc, etc. Never once did you bitch or complain about that. Now all of sudden the thread is off topic and you have a problem. Give me a break dude.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

Off topic? As if. We have long ago decided that this was a one stop shop for many things. What has however been great was "differing" views with substance. When you keep throwing out things void of facts, presented as concrete is where I challenge you to offer up substance. Simple. I've never felt inclined to call anyone out, since people here usually at least offer the best support for their opinions...you offered none...yet continued to spew.

So, seriously if you offer a strong "opinion" be prepared to be challenged for support otherwise it's pointless to anyone concerned with actual facts.

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

 

[Infinite1]

can everyone hug and make up?
this thread started as something about a particular device and naturally evolved into a social thread among friends.
- or so I think....
we may not all agree on all things; but, that is the spice of life.
so long as we respect each other.

I agree that this all among friends. As friends we also have the responsibility to call out or AKA seek understanding "facts" from our friends.

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

 

[Deucesjack]

Off topic? As if. We have long ago decided that this was a one stop shop for many things. What has however been great was "differing" views with substance. When you keep throwing out things void of facts, presented as concrete is where I challenge you to offer up substance. Simple. I've never felt inclined to call anyone out, since people here usually at least offer the best support for their opinions...you offered none...yet continued to spew.

So, seriously if you offer a strong "opinion" be prepared to be challenged for support otherwise it's pointless to anyone concerned with actual facts.

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

Ok you up for the challenge? I said advocacy groups have no success. Show me their success. I said they have no transparency. Show me their transparency. I said I want to know how much they have raised and what they're doing with the money. Show me where the money is and what they're doing with it. Go ahead go get those FACTS then we can have a discussion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

 

[SirRichardRear]

I know what you mean I could never vote for Hillary either. Lmao. Make sure you post some pics of that Lava box.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

IDK both are idiots. at this point i would vote for whichever one said they would support vaping lol

 

[Infinite1]

Ok you up for the challenge? I said advocacy groups have no success. Show me their success. I said they have no transparency. Show me their transparency. I said I want to know how much they have raised and what they're doing with the money. Show me where the money is and what they're doing with it. Go ahead go get those FACTS then we can have a discussion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

Indeed, here's a "success" story here in CA that took the involvement of advocacy groups and local business owners. I was a part of this;

http://vaping360.com/california-assembly-committee-kills-bill-restrict-tobacco-sales/

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[f1r3b1rd]

I agree that this all among friends. As friends we also have the responsibility to call out or AKA seek understanding "facts" from our friends.

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

on that note.... I stil haven't seen any progress from these advocacy groups outside of asking for donations and for us to send in letters to congress people- oh and making a webpage with social media.

in the two years that they were supposed to hire a lobbyist... has anyone heard from this lobbyist?
I'm just sayin, I would love to see a tack sheet in what they have been given and what they spent the money on.

 

[sandduner8]

Sorry to break up the lunatic for president talk with something actually about Vaping. Tracking shows my Blood Red Lavabox DNA75 has been delivered. I'm anxious to get home to check it out.

So Steve you pulled the trigger on a 75 watt . Do think it will be enough ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Off topic? As if. We have long ago decided that this was a one stop shop for many things. What has however been great was "differing" views with substance. When you keep throwing out things void of facts, presented as concrete is where I challenge you to offer up substance. Simple. I've never felt inclined to call anyone out, since people here usually at least offer the best support for their opinions...you offered none...yet continued to spew.

So, seriously if you offer a strong "opinion" be prepared to be challenged for support otherwise it's pointless to anyone concerned with actual facts.

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

did you read the article? there is not one mention of what any vapor advocacy groups have done..... there is this though

Why did convenience store owners succeed where vapor businesses have failed? Probably because they have been active meeting their legislators and creating relationships with them. Elected officials do pay attention to small businesses in their districts; they are very sensitive to the needs of the entrepreneurs who provide jobs and improve the economic well-being. Wouldn’t it be nice if vaping businesses had this kind of clout?

reads more like vapors being advised to form a group, or the group getting advice on how to advocate.

or was there another article you intended to link?

 

[Deucesjack]

Indeed, here's a "success" story here in CA that took the involvement of advocacy groups and local business owners. I was a part of this;

http://vaping360.com/california-assembly-committee-kills-bill-restrict-tobacco-sales/

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

Lmfao, first of all this discussion is about the FDA. That's Federal Drug Administration, that means our discussion is about laws on a federal level. Did you even read the article? If you did then you have to see the article actually proves my point. Not once in the article did it say advocacy groups were responsible for their limited success. It said it was trade and business organizations. In fact the article goes out of its way to point out that over 200 businesses showed up and that is what got the legislators attention. If you scroll back to one of my posts you'll see I make that exact point. Still waiting though for how much money was raised and where it all is.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

 

[Infinite1]

did you read the article? there is not one mention of what any vapor advocacy groups have done..... there is this though

Why did convenience store owners succeed where vapor businesses have failed? Probably because they have been active meeting their legislators and creating relationships with them. Elected officials do pay attention to small businesses in their districts; they are very sensitive to the needs of the entrepreneurs who provide jobs and improve the economic well-being. Wouldn’t it be nice if vaping businesses had this kind of clout?

reads more like vapors being advised to form a group, or the group getting advice on how to advocate.

or was there another article you intended to link?

Nope, this is the article I intended as it is the only "published" article that I am aware of about the effort. I personally worked alongside with my local BM to be present. SB1400 was not acted on alone by businesses. The article does however point to the fact that the same in-fighting that just occurred here because we all frustrated, is preventing us from having even greater success.

Just so it's clear, I am in no way saying that "advocacy" is perfect...is there really a such thing with anything?? All I am saying, before people become super neg on advocacy and the power of numbers, there are actually examples of how numbers of people can affect change...that's all. Never have I argued that advocacy is all we need

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[f1r3b1rd]

Nope, this is the article I intended as it is the only "published" article that I am aware of about the effort. I personally worked alongside with my local BM to be present. SB1400 was not acted on alone by businesses. The article does however point to the fact that the same in-fighting that just occurred here because we all frustrated, is preventing us from having even greater success.

Just so it's clear, I am in no way saying that "advocacy" is perfect...is there really a such thing with anything?? All I am saying, before people become super neg on advocacy and the power of numbers, there are actually examples of how numbers of people can affect change...that's all. Never have I argued that advocacy is all we need

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

well.. in the almost 3 years now that I have been vaping... I stand by my previous statement on "advocacy"
- its not being negative, its being realistic. I have seen ZERO progress from them but I have seen a lot of my checks cashed.
watch this video if you haven't already... he pretty much nails it spot on, from my point of view.

on that note.... I stil haven't seen any progress from these advocacy groups outside of asking for donations and for us to send in letters to congress people- oh and making a webpage with social media.

in the two years that they were supposed to hire a lobbyist... has anyone heard from this lobbyist?
I'm just sayin, I would love to see a tack sheet in what they have been given and what they spent the money on.

 

[Infinite1]

Lmfao, first of all this discussion is about the FDA. That's Federal Drug Administration, that means our discussion is about laws on a federal level. Did you even read the article? If you did then you have to see the article actually proves my point. Not once in the article did it say advocacy groups were responsible for their limited success. It said it was trade and business organizations. In fact the article goes out of its way to point out that over 200 businesses showed up and that is what got the legislators attention. If you scroll back to one of my posts you'll see I make that exact point. Still waiting though for how much money was raised and where it all is.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk

Answered your questions about the article below your post... See how great it is to have actual talking points "facts" to discuss versus something you just feel? Just saying...

Politics are are far more involved than just Federal. There are State and Federal laws. Typically Federal laws governing the States. States have the ability to influence Fed. It all works together. Thats why I am pushing for folks to at least get active locally because the Fed Regs will of course have to be handles a bit differently. Nothing is Black/white. If it were that simple......

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

 

[BoostAddict]

We're all screwed, end of story! Back to vaping topics PLEASE Steve where is that purdy Lavabox!

 

[f1r3b1rd]

 

[Infinite1]

We're all screwed, end of story! Back to vaping topics PLEASE

Boost...I'll take that, there are no shortage of forums dedicated to regs, and how the groups can work more efficiently!



Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

 

[f1r3b1rd]

or work at all

 

[Infinite1]

Limitless Plus....it's official, I'm an iJoy atomizer guy hear on out!

I got my LP from Steve yesterday and it is better than the V1 in many ways but oddly enough, both versions that I have provide something.

Here she is on my Therion

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[Deucesjack]

Answered your questions about the article below your post... See how great it is to have actual talking points "facts" to discuss versus something you just feel? Just saying...

Politics are are far more involved than just Federal. There are State and Federal laws. Typically Federal laws governing the States. States have the ability to influence Fed. It all works together. Thats why I am pushing for folks to at least get active locally because the Fed Regs will of course have to be handles a bit differently. Nothing is Black/white. If it were that simple......

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10

Bro, I like you and I think your a good guy. What I say next I say with all due respect. Wtf are you looking at? Are you even reading the same thread I am. First you accuse me of being a troll. Most people here that know me know that simply isn't true. Then you accuse me of bringing the thread off topic which I clearly pointed out has been done on many more occasions without a peep from you. Then you say I have no facts behind my argument. I challenge you bring the so called facts to the table and you manage to find some obscure article from the Sacramento Bee that actually proves my point. Then you accuse me of politicizing the discussion when that clearly has been done by you. You're the one that got your panties twisted and all offended not me. You called me out I never called you out until then. You still have yet to provide a federal advocacy win, funds raised, and where the money went. Just be honest with everyone here and admit you have no facts to back up the claims you have made.

 

[BoostAddict]

Here is my Red Lavabox. In the f...ing mailman truck

 

[Wingsfan0310]

So Steve you pulled the trigger on a 75 watt . Do think it will be enough ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm going to try and steer this thread back to vaping. I'm not sure if it's being derailed on purpose or what.

I just got home and the Blood Red Lavabox was waiting. It's one beautiful piece of gear. Very small and lightweight. It just feels like a quality piece to me. I haven't had a chance to grab a picture or even hook it up to Escribe. I just put my Supreme on it with Dual Clapton SS316L 28, 36 coils, .41 ohms, 7 wraps, 2.5mm. I'm just using the preset 316 setting and it's vaping like a dream.

I think it will be plenty of power for me, especially with my normal 28ga SS316 dual coils that ohm out to around .31 ohms. I usually vape those at 30 watts with 50 preheat, 5 punch, for 1 second.

The only problem I see with this is that the finish is so Damn Nice that I'm going to be nervous to take it out. I'll put up some pics later.

PS Look it's one thing to say the FDA regs suck. It's something we all agree on. To start talking who we should vote for in this thread is Bullshit. That's not something we all agree on. It will derail what until now I consider a great thread. If you want to campaign for a certain candidate do it in the appropriate place. That isn't here!

Cheers,
Steve

 

[f1r3b1rd]

I'm going to try and steer this thread back to vaping. I'm not sure if it's being derailed on purpose or what.

I just got home and the Blood Red Lavabox was waiting. It's one beautiful piece of gear. Very small and lightweight. It just feels like a quality piece to me. I haven't had a chance to grab a picture or even hook it up to Escribe. I just put my Supreme on it with Dual Clapton SS316L 28, 36 coils, .41 ohms, 7 wraps, 2.5mm. I'm just using the preset 316 setting and it's vaping like a dream.

I think it will be plenty of power for me, especially with my normal 28ga SS316 dual coils that ohm out to around .31 ohms. I usually vape those at 30 watts with 50 preheat, 5 punch, for 1 second.

The only problem I see with this is that the finish is son Damn Nice that I'm going to be nervous to take it out. I'll put up some pics later.

PS Look it's one thing to say the FDA regs suck. It's something we all agree on. To start talking who we should vote for in this thread is Bullshit. That's not something we all agree on. It will derail what until now I consider a great thread. If you want to campaign for a certain candidate do it in the appropriate place. That isn't here!

Cheers,
Steve

il drop the reg argument, but I never did see a voting argument... more of simply stating that these advocacy groups are not actually advocating.

quite frankly I don't care who the next president is- I dislike them both equally

 

[Infinite1]

Bro, I like you and I think your a good guy. What I say next I say with all due respect. Wtf are you looking at? Are you even reading the same thread I am. First you accuse me of being a troll. Most people here that know me know that simply isn't true. Then you accuse me of bringing the thread off topic which I clearly pointed out has been done on many more occasions without a peep from you. Then you say I have no facts behind my argument. I challenge you bring the so called facts to the table and you manage to find some obscure article from the Sacramento Bee that actually proves my point. Then you accuse me of politicizing the discussion when that clearly has been done by you. You're the one that got your panties twisted and all offended not me. You called me out I never called you out until then. You still have yet to provide a federal advocacy win, funds raised, and where the money went. Just be honest with everyone here and admit you have no facts to back up the claims you have made.

Fact, never accused you of bringing the thread off topic. I accused you of spreading misinformation and "bunker" theories.

Fact, don't wear panties

I too believe that you mean well. As I explained earlier and what even basic Government classes teach Fed/State government works in tandem.
What I was pointing is that although there are overarching Federal laws, our collective States can get stuff done for us as well...is that a serious question?

Let's do what Boost has suggested and what I suggested in my call out to ya...let's take it to PM. Happy to continue the debate with ya

Sent from a random device, most likely a LG V10