Calling all TC experts

[Mattp169]

well
here is what is making even less sense
so i finished a tank off with a stock ni200 coils

and before it got to NO LIQUID I got dry hits and a burnt taste
So refilled and its still got that left over dry hit/burnt taste.

The whole point of TC is to avoid that

so something is not right for me

 

[dre]

@dre

anything above 400 f tastes like hot crap in my mouth and someone burnt tasting. I know nothing is burning but it tastes horrible and almost burns my mouth above 400

I just tried playing with joules and temp
set it to 525 and kept raising joules
at low joules say 19 it tasted fine
but after 40 joules it tasted horrible

then i blew the brand new stock ni200 coil

All it says now is low res on that coil.

SO Im starting to think there is a connection issue somewhere

I swithced it to power mode and threw a standard vertical occ coil on and it fired fine

put a different ni 200 coil on and back to TC mode and its working now. But the coil I started on today is not working at all

I'm stumped. All I can think of is make sure the coil is tight in the base. Set the resistance while the coil is at room temperature + - buttons. Make sure its set for ni200/if your using kanger stock nickel coils. Even at 50j and 572° f your shouldn't have a burnt taste just very warm to hot vape.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[Mattp169]

well ive gone through at least 5 full tanks using the same nI200 COIL AND The ONLY COMPLAINT IS THAT maybe IT COULD DETECT A DRY A COIL A LITTLE BETTER, BUT i SUSPECT THAT IS A WICKING ISSUE WITH The STOCK COILS.

So Im stumped, I am assuming my coil building skills SUCK. I am waiting for rayon to arrive, should be here any day. Ill just have to experiment a little more with my coil building
@dre, @kwtony
Let me see if I got my steps correct

Wrap the coil around my screwdriver.
compress the coil together against the handle.
Install coil
set device to wattage mode and pulse very quickly so it just barely glows
squeeze with pliers/ tweezers
try to pulse it just to make sure the coil is glowing form the inside to the outside
if not pinch with tweezers/pliers
repeat till coil glows evenly form teh center out
then
allow to cool to room temp
wick
juice and vape.

Am I doing something wrong in my steps?

 

[dre]

Those steps are good for a titanium contact coil. If using ni200 just make a spaced coil and don't pulse. Just set the temp to 572 or 600 if its a DNA and burn off all the oil that's on the metal from handling it. Then wick and vape and be

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[dre]

Maybe you have a hot spot that's why you can't go over 400. Only use spaced coils for ni200

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[Mattp169]

@dre

Ok you got me confuzzled a bit

SPACE vs contact

I assume im doing space coils, since theses actually a little space between wraps.

I assume you mean contact means there is no space between wraps and one wrap touches the next

Ive never been able to achieve that.... Is there a trick?

And iM referring only to Titanium

I find the flavor form Ni200 muted in comparison

 

[TheVapingDevil]

@dre

Ok you got me confuzzled a bit

SPACE vs contact

I assume im doing space coils, since theses actually a little space between wraps.

I assume you mean contact means there is no space between wraps and one wrap touches the next

Ive never been able to achieve that.... Is there a trick?

And iM referring only to Titanium

I find the flavor form Ni200 muted in comparison

I too am having problems getting a contact coil out of TI wire. From what I have read and I have to try it out tonight when I get home, you pulse the TI wire (till its blue.. NOT white) then pinch the coil together with pliers. When the coil is hot and you pinch it, it should hold its new shape as it cools. Again, only what I read and I have to try it out when I get home tonight....

 

[Mattp169]

BLue you say?

never gotten it to glow blue only red/orange

 

[dre]

It doesn't glow blue. The wire becomes a purplish blue when cooled.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[dre]

I too am having problems getting a contact coil out of TI wire. From what I have read and I have to try it out tonight when I get home, you pulse the TI wire (till its blue.. NOT white) then pinch the coil together with pliers. When the coil is hot and you pinch it, it should hold its new shape as it cools. Again, only what I read and I have to try it out when I get home tonight....

Just lightly pulse it until you see it glowing from the inside out evenly like a typical kanthal coil. Then let it cool to room temperature and set your resistance.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[Mattp169]

wait wait wait

Let me get this right

so basically push the fire button and release quickly over and over again until the coil has slightly changed to a purplish blue color?

 

[Mattp169]

nvm thats what I was doing
pulsing just enough to see it glow a few times and see its glowing form inside to outside


But to make these contact coils you speak of are you suppose to pinch the coil after pusling to get it to be a contact coil or is it all in how you wrap it?

 

[dre]

With titanium you kinda have to wrap it as a contact coil. Just wrap it as close as you can or use a coiling tool.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[Mattp169]

okie dokie i will try
TY for all your help

 

[Mattp169]

Hmm

I may be on to something

so I built a 4 ish wrap conatct Ti coil came out around .15

Tried pulsing it on the D2 but no luck cuz power mode wont fire that low of a reisstance

So I went to the web and found the specs for the D2 saying Joule mode has a range of .05 - .3

Now I would assume this is only referring to nickel... but can not find anything on Ti resistance range on this device. Most of my Ti coils have been around .25. But when firing they heat up to over .45 easily. I am wondering if my ti builds are just too high resistance and they heta up to the point where the device can not operate say over .5 or so.

Anyone know if there is a different range for Ti resistance or if the .05-.3 is for both Ti and Ni200 for the D2


The only other thing I can figure is how i screw the leads in to the deck. The wire is 26 gauge and winds up beeing wedge between the side of the screw head and the side of the deck. Maybe that is causing resisatance changes and screwing things up

I noticed while playing around when I put the Ni200 stock coil back on it said teh resistance for only .11 instead of closer to .15 like it should be. And it was just doing No liquid over and over. let the whole thing cool down for 2 minutes relocked resistance and its fine now. SO I am wondering if was the coil heats up and the wicking etc, Something is happening causing the resistance to change of the coil, screwing up the TC algorithm, thereby causing the No LIQUID message even though the wick is soaked

I am thinking this is where my issue with my own Ti coils is coming from, I will play around some more and see

 

[AmandaD]

You really have to let everything sit for at least 15 minutes after you've filled up before you lock the resistance! But those Ni200 coils aren't always totally accurate - mine don't always read .15!

 

[TheVapingDevil]

nvm thats what I was doing
pulsing just enough to see it glow a few times and see its glowing form inside to outside


But to make these contact coils you speak of are you suppose to pinch the coil after pusling to get it to be a contact coil or is it all in how you wrap it?

This may help so here is a pic of 2 contact coils I did tonight all ready for wicking

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 Dumbphone

 

[Mattp169]

yeah ok
im having issues making mine look that pretty but I get the idea
the 2 i have tried dont work right at all. NO liquid from the get go.

But I now know what the NO LIQUID IS REALLY ABOUT

You get NO LIQUID on this device when

Based on the locked in resistance the resistance hits the point where the algorithm says at this resistance you are above the set temp.

Now that should happen when you have a dry coil

But it can happen when the locked in resistance is wrong
or
if the coils resistance changes from something other then its actual temperature

I believe when I build my TI coils I am doing something to cause the second thing to happen. It could be I have hot spots, hot leads, the screws are not holding teh wire down right, I have the wire touching metal somewhere

So on that note...
Is e liquid conductive??? I ask because i think it may be something like the wick is contacting the RBA deck base and is wet and allowing electricity to flow improperly through the deck. I may be over thinking it. ANy one have thoughts on this concept?

 

[AmandaD]

Just for fun, take the temp down to about 300F and try using the nickel setting. The SX Mini has issues with the TI update, and only use it on the Ni setting.

 

[TheVapingDevil]

My first three coils sucked and wouldn't work. Finally I made one installed it, put device in power mode. The at 20 watts,started firing it watching for hot spots. Squeezed and fired. Kept this up until the coil glowed evenly. Changed device back to temp mode. Let it sit for 15 minutes then locked in resistance. The coils were a nice blueish color. Wicked it and since no issues. You may just have some bad hot spots that is rendering all these problems. Maybe someone has,other ideas :/

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 Dumbphone

 

[Mattp169]

ok

SO i built a 2.5mm diameter Ti coil contact or at least as best as i could
pulsed it in power mode over and over and squeezed the coil over and over til it was touching and was tight everywhere.

It never turned blue -started to look white to me? NO clue what i am doing wrong cuz i could see a definite blue on the out side if vapingdevils coils in that pic.

Let it cool wick=ed it and right away NO LIQUID

SO tried AmadaD's suggestion switched to Ni200 mode lowered the temp to below 300 since i was only at 330 to start with
And same results NO LIQUID right away.

Switched back to Ti mode and BOOM its firing perfectly.

Only thing is it tastes horrible. and actually making me cough. Im going to try and get through half a tank or so and see if the bad taste passes and teh coil and cotton just need broke in.

 

[TheVapingDevil]

This may seem like crazy question but did happen to me once. I forgot to lock in resistance and got the no liquid warning. After it's wicked you have to let it sit to come back to full room temp. Both the atty and mod. Then lock the resistance. Once I did that it fired.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 Dumbphone

 

[Mattp169]

i am trying to let it all cool down.

Its definitely a resistance issue

could be my impatience with letting it all cool down
could be my build
could be the mod is buggy.
not sure

Im experimenting. Ill get it. Just looking for ideas as to what i need to experiment with to get things figured out

 

[AmandaD]

Did you set resistance exactly like this?
a) fill tank
b) let sit for at least 15 minutes (more if the tank is hot)
c) THEN set resistance - and leave it alone (don't reset it again later).

 

[Mattp169]

all except the 15 minutes

here is whats is happening

if i let it sit 5 minutes

and hit the + and - button it says resistance is .200
if i try to fire that it says NO LIQUID

So after i fire I hold down + and _ and watch the resistance drop form like .28 to .225 and stop then fire it works perfect.
I also rewicked cuz the whole thing was just to hot even at 300 degrees. the subtank was getting hot to the touch even. teh wick was brown afte ronly 5 or 6 pulls. New wick and it tastes better

 

[Mattp169]

yup
let it cool down another 5 minutes
and hit the fire button the resistance immediately read .20 and right to NO LIQUID

 

[AmandaD]

yup
let it cool down another 5 minutes
and hit the fire button the resistance immediately read .20 and right to NO LIQUID

I'm not sure how you set the resistance on the D2 - but not just by pressing the fire button. You have to actually lock it in first. You have to turn up the temp high enough - if it's too low you can get the 'no liquid' error. Are you using the Ti setting? If so what temp are you setting it at?

 

[dre]

300°c or f. There is a huge difference between the two

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[Mattp169]

ok
you lock reisstance by presing + and - together
im using F not C

I can not stand teh taste of Ni or Ti above 375 its too hot and nasty

the Ni200 stock coils form kanger seem to work fine
its the rba deck using Ti thats giving me all teh issues
Yes I am using Ti mode for that

I just let the whole thing sit for like 45 minutes
and this .2 ohm coil now read .191 and locked that it and No Liquid

My temp is 326F

I can use the Ni200 stock kanger coils this low for 5 or more tanks with no issues
I had one ti coil built a few days ago that lasted about a day and ahalf at temps between 300 and 400 F with no issues
then it just staopped working kept giving me the NO LIQUID

SO the coil when everything is room temp reads on teh device .191
i dont have an ohm meter
but according to steam engine
a 5 wrap 26 gauge Ti coil should be about .21
thats what I made
if I lock that resistance in it says NO LIQUID
if I fire it the resistance jumps -naturally
so i hit the + and - buttons down and the resistance slowly drops back down fi I lock in a resistance of about .225 it works but if i let it cool down for more then 5 minutes it goes right back to NO liquid
if i let it tick down below .225 it says NO liquid

 

[AmandaD]

I get no liquid on my SX mini if I run it that low. It needs to go up to aroud 500 for me. Try it - it's not hot, because the coil is a higher resistance than Ni200.

Once the lowest resistance is set you have to leave it alone and then mess around with the temp to get it right. You can't reset the resistance higher than it's meant to be or it messes up the calibration!

 

[Mattp169]

500 degrees is pure hell and tastes horrible and is way to hot - i have no idea how you use those temps
at 500 all i get is a smoke flavor, hurts my throat makes me cough and there is no flavor form the juice.

 

[AmandaD]

What I was trying to explain is that if you get dry coil, turning up the temp usually solves the issue. Mine at 500 are NOT hot! Just try setting the temp at its lowest setting and then turning it up just until the dry coil message goes away - maybe it'll just be 400F, but that's the solution that has worked for me. (And once the lowest resistance setting is read do not reset it again).

 

[dre]

Anything below 470 is anaemic IMO I like a full warm dense vape which is around 480-550 depending on rda/rta

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[AmandaD]

Can you post a pic if your build? I'm wondering if you have enough wick in there!

 

[Mattp169]

so i have done some experimenting on and off today

Been using my old istick with my occ kanthal coils on a subtank

in the mean time i would not use the d2 or ti coil at all
and just check resistance on it with locking it in on the devie
and this coil is now reading .189. and if i play with temp now
its WEIRD

Yes at higher temps like AmadaD said you dont get the NO LIQUID but what was weird was suddenly WHILE IN TI MODE the TI coil at 450 tasted like it did before at say 350 and the nickel tastes like in NICKEL MODE at 350.

Anywho This is just all screwy.

Maybe my device is getting hotter then it is suppose to I need to do some testing there.

Just so I dont have to search

Anyone know off the top of their head what temp setting dry cotton burns at?

in the meantime

I built a new Ti coil
ill post pics

I did about 3mm diameter 6 wrapsish says on the D2 it was .267. I pulsed it at 10 watts and pinched it about 20 times

I still see NO BLUE.

Does this coil look right so far?

Ill wick it up and post more pics

 

[dre]

I see a slight purple blue in the middle coil i say that look ok. Also its 410°f absolutely dry cotton. Starts to char but your mod will stop it way before that even at 550° so dont go by that

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

 

[Mattp169]

ok here we go with the wicking

Im posting this stuff, maybe someone will see wtf I am doing wrong

 

[Mattp169]

ok
o this has been sitting cooling off for over 15 minutes.
I put some juice in
set it to Ti mode
locked the resistance one more time to be sure .263
set temp to 350 F 50 J

HIt the fire button
it fired for 1 second then went right to NO LIQUID

Set temp to 450F 50J
and pressed fire button it fired for about 3 seconds then NO LIQUID

Set temp to 550 F 50J
fired for 10 seconds with no issue, but I know I will hate the taste of it

Set temp back 350f AND NOW CHANGED TO 10J
Now it fires for about 3 seconds then NO LIQUID

Set it to 15J at 350F
Fires for 3 Seconds and then NO LIQUID

SO for shits and giggles
Left it at 350F and set it to 15 J AND CHANGED TO NI200 mode
It works fine
and tastes like any Ti build I got to work at 350F

Tried it at 500F and it tastes horrible and burnt but NOT HOT which is wierd
Maybe its cuz I am only at 15J

back to 350F 15J and TI MODE
And it fires for a second then NO LIQUID

SO something is very off and I am clueless

 

[AmandaD]

You have to let it sit for 15 minutes WITH the juice in it and THEN lock it!

Also, I don't wick like that. I cut my wicks very short so that they are just touching the deck. I juice them and push them close to the side away from the juice holes. After I put the ring on I double check and push the wicks away from the juice holes again.

I suspect your wicking might be causing an issue as well!

 

[Mattp169]

Okie dokie

What difference does adding the juice in after wicking have on resistance?

Because I will say The 2 or 3 Ti coils I had working would always mess up after refilling the tank, so I think you are on to something, But I dont understand why

 

[AmandaD]

Okie dokie

What difference does adding the juice in after wicking have on resistance?

Because I will say The 2 or 3 Ti coils I had working would always mess up after refilling the tank, so I think you are on to something, But I dont understand why

I added to my post above about wicking - check that out.

It's important to set resistance after everything is put together, fllled, and ready to go AND has sat for a while. When you refill you don't have to set the resistance again. The only time you have to do that is the first time you put a new tank on (or if you change tanks).

 

[Mattp169]

alright figured it out

First a big thank you to all who have contributed to this thread to try and help me
second another big thank you to aaron from @maddcatt vapors who took some time out of his schedule today and lunch ordering to help me figure this out

Apparently there is some issue with both my kanger subtank minis. what that issue is I am clueless

with the subtanks both my own Ti coils and the prebuilt knager Ni200 coils were usually firing way to high. SO when I would set them at 400F they were actually acting the way they should at 572F 50J

How do I know this
well aaron had sold me ages ago a maganus tank thats been sitting in my drawer for months unused.

I put that on the d2 today in power mode and fell in love with the flavor so I called @maddcatt vapors and found they had prebuilt ni200 coils for it in stock.

SO I went down and aaron told me that this coil in a maganus at 572F 50J should taste warm and be flavorful. And it was. If i set this coil much below 400F the vapor and flavor take a serious drop and eventually I get no liquid within a few seconds. So after talking with aaron I realized that my kanger sunbtanks were not behaving anything like this maganus in TC. 572F on either my own Ti build or a kanger stock Ni200 coil are about 10 times hotter then the maganus. So now I know the issue is with the coils in the subtank. Now I have a place of reference on how TC should act. Now what alot of you have been saying makes alot more sense.
Aaron also told me of his own experiences building TC coils and how finiky they can be. His experiences matched up with alot of my own issues.

So I am not insane, There is just some serious issues going on with my subtanks when it comes to TC. But now that I have a point of reference I can try some new builds and some new Stock Ni200 coils and see what happens and maybe figure out how to get my kanger subtanks to work with TC

So once again thank you to all who have contributed
and
Thanks again to aaron from @maddcatt vapors

 

[AmandaD]

So glad you got it sorted out! Yes, the subtanks can be very picky. Often when I build my tc coils my USA Ohmmeter won't even register them until they've been fired. Which makes me think there's something weird about the subtank bases.

 

[Mattp169]

yes there is something wierd with subtanks in relation to TC builds and reading the ohms correctly.

SO what tanks can anyone suggest other then the subtank that will allow me to have prebuilt NI200 coils with great flavor and an rba section

I know I can get the rba deck for the maganus, and Im thinking of using that as an option

Ive heard great things about the billow v2 but would rather not go that route YET, until I am comfortable building my own coils.

I would prefer something I can get coils for and has an rba section and is reliable and flavorful.

The maganus is just so powerful for me. Its killing my chest to take draws on it. I may have to cut my 6mg juices down to 3mg to see if that is all it is or what

Ive also seen the triton, but I do not think they make prebuilt Ni200 coils for it

And the smok TFV4 looks like an option but the NI200 coils and Ti coils are not available YET, and may never be

 

[AmandaD]

Definitely cut your nic level! I had to go from 6 to 3 in the subtanks. I also have the Delta II and the Atlantis 2 with RBA bases as an option, but quite frankly I prefer the flavor of the subtanks. I really do like my Billow V2 of course, but wicking can be a pita! I do use 4 subtanks with TI builds, so they can work well, but as you've discovered they can be finickey.

 

[TheVapingDevil]

As Amanda Stated the Billows V2 is a great tank. The wicking can be a PITA at first but that not what you are looking for initially. I just ordered today the T-VCT tank and RBA section. It has its own NI200 coils or you can use Kanthal if you like. It has a nice little RBA section for it as well but that has to be purchased separate. I plan to use the NI200 coils that come with it while I perfect my TI building skills with the RBA section. Of course my Billows will still get a good workout each day as I like to have several flavors loaded up to keep the vapors tongue issue down haha
good luck in your search as there are several good options avail

 

[Mattp169]

I am going to give the subtank rda with TI a few more shots.

Here is my question on that
I seem to have issues getting the leads under the screw and tightening the screws. If i tighten it down so the head is holding down the wire the coil is loose, if i tighten the screws more then the wire gets pushed to the side and is pinned between the deck and the side of the screw. Would different screws work better? Or should I be wrapping the leads around the screw ?

Oh and i switched form 24mg to 6mg when i switched to my subtank
Not sure if the feeling in my chest on the maganus is
1. nickel wire
2. too much vape period and I will adjust
or
3. too much nic with this much vape

pretty sure its not the nickel wire cuz the kanthal coils on the maganus give me pretty much the same feeling

I think I may just put some pure vg in the tank after it runs out and see how that feels for a few hits to discover if its nic level or just need to get used to the amount of vape the same way I did when I first switched from an iclear 30s to a subtank

 

[AmandaD]

I am going to give the subtank rda with TI a few more shots.

Here is my question on that
I seem to have issues getting the leads under the screw and tightening the screws. If i tighten it down so the head is holding down the wire the coil is loose, if i tighten the screws more then the wire gets pushed to the side and is pinned between the deck and the side of the screw. Would different screws work better? Or should I be wrapping the leads around the screw ?

Oh and i switched form 24mg to 6mg when i switched to my subtank
Not sure if the feeling in my chest on the maganus is
1. nickel wire
2. too much vape period and I will adjust
or
3. too much nic with this much vape

pretty sure its not the nickel wire cuz the kanthal coils on the maganus give me pretty much the same feeling

I think I may just put some pure vg in the tank after it runs out and see how that feels for a few hits to discover if its nic level or just need to get used to the amount of vape the same way I did when I first switched from an iclear 30s to a subtank

Matt, I use 26 gauge Ti and generally do wrap it at at least half way around the screw. If you keep the mandrel in it while your mounting, and keep the coil low (you can pull it up a bit later) you can wrap the wire around halfway. This makes the best connection for me. You can't do it without keeping the original wrapping tool in the coil (or something the same size), because it pulls the coil. I just wrapped a contact coil, 5 wraps on the 2.5 coilmaster, and it comes to 0.26 after sitting in a filled tank for sometime before putting on my box. This one is working really well on my Sigelei 75w at 350F and 25 watts (remember this is Ti on a Ni setting).

 

[Mattp169]

ok I am going to try on my next build to wrap the leads around the screw, I am thinking that is my main issue with my building skills on the subtank rda.

Because i discovered that the one prebuiilt NI200 coil i was using registered at .15 at first. And was firing way to hot. Now its registering at .11ish and its acting more like the maganus . SO I definitely thinking there is some connection issues going on with my subtank bases, both of them which is causing the device to read the resistance incorrectly. yet kanthal coils seem to read properly. or at least tehy seem to since i just play with watts to make them act teh way i want. But the watts I use on the d2 for kanthal are lower then I would on the same coil on an istick

 

[AmandaD]

ok I am going to try on my next build to wrap the leads around the screw, I am thinking that is my main issue with my building skills on the subtank rda.

Because i discovered that the one prebuiilt NI200 coil i was using registered at .15 at first. And was firing way to hot. Now its registering at .11ish and its acting more like the maganus . SO I definitely thinking there is some connection issues going on with my subtank bases, both of them which is causing the device to read the resistance incorrectly. yet kanthal coils seem to read properly. or at least tehy seem to since i just play with watts to make them act teh way i want. But the watts I use on the d2 for kanthal are lower then I would on the same coil on an istick

Weird, because those Ni200 coils are rated at 0.15 no? I do pop all my subtank parts into the UC every now and then to make sure there's no crud in places I can't see to mess with my settings! And, I agree, on my Istick TC I have to crank the heat all the way up to get the same vape I get on a much lower setting on another box!