Eleaf iStick ... compact 20w box mod

[aldenf]

Well I just repeated the loaded voltages tests with a fully charged battery with an Aspire that it reads as 2.2Ω.

Don't know what to tell yas. Again I have it set to voltage mode.

- 3v setting, meter reads 3.00V
- 3.5V meter reads 3.47V
- 4V meter reads 3.97V
- 5.5V meter reads 5.48V

The real question remains whether the iStick is firing Average Voltage (Vavg) or RMS Voltage (Vrms) current. Remember the PWM issues a few years ago with the VMax, etc? Some believe it uses Vavg rather than the more appropriate Vrms.

The short of it... Vavg creates significantly more dissipated power (watts) at the resistance load (coil) than pure DC current. Vrms is used to duplicate the wattage that Ohm's Law tells us we should have.

Ohm's Law: V²/R=W
A 2Ω coil hit with 3V should give us 4.5W (3²/2=4.5)
The formula used to determine Watts from Vavg output require two pieces of additional info: Peak Voltage (Vpk) and Duty Cycle Percentage (C%).
We know the peak voltage of the iStick is 5.5V. 3V requires a duty cycle of 55%.
The formula: (Vpk²/R) * C%
For our example: (5.5²/2) * .55 = 8.3 ---- 8.3W!
4.5W vs. 8.3W is a big difference.

This has not been confirmed.

I'm still waiting for my pre-ordered iStick to put on my scope.

Hope this helps some.

~Alden

 

[Whiskey]

I'm easy....I'm not disappointed

 

[Hermit]

The real question remains whether the iStick is firing Average Voltage (Vavg) or RMS Voltage (Vrms) current.

That is my suspicion too.

User 'gray' did post a 'scope screenshot. and the settings the device was at at the time. The significance of this info seemed to pass most posters by!

From that, it looks like the 3.6V setting results in a PWM duty cycle of approx. 65% with a PWM amplitude of about 5.8V.

That is clearly a Vavg calculation, which will be hot - the equivalent of 4.57 Vrms.

To get a Vrms output of 3.6V would mean a PWM duty cycle of about 38% - very different.

Since it seems to boost to 5.8V before reducing that with PWM, I made a graph...



IF the PWM amplitude reduces with battery voltge, it's easy to see why people found it to be capable of lowers wattages with lower battery voltages - in any case, it would not be able to go lower than about 4.2Vrms while the PWM amplitude is at 5.8V.

Some speculation in this post, but I really think gray's posts are enough to make out a smoking gun.

 

[UncleRJ]

 

[Hermit]

Oh booger, I've done for RJ

 

[UncleRJ]

Me, I prefer to be a plug and play vaper.

I build my coils at 1.7 ohms, I know that my batteries are up to snuff for the regulated mods I use, I am religious with charging my batteries safely and only charge them while I can keep my eyes on them and take them off of the charger as soon as they are done (the charger is on the table beside my comfy chair), and I use Quartz tanks so I don't have to worry about filling with a tank cracker by accident.

If all of the above conditions are met, I just sit back and enjoy my well earned vape.

What more could anyone want?

Except for more really neat gear that fits in with my philosophy

 

[aldenf]

Me, I prefer to be a plug and play vaper.

Until we know more about the iStick, I wouldn't recommend it to "plug-and-play" or newbie vapers.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong...

 

[UncleRJ]

Until we know more about the iStick, I wouldn't recommend it to "plug-and-play" or newbie vapers.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong...

I am cautious about recommending it myself with all the tales now circulating about it. Perhaps that is why I normally wait for a device to be in the marketplace for at least 6 months before I purchase. Enough time for info such as this to surface.

And any flaws to be fixed in the second or even third generation of the device in question.

 

[BrutusGM]

[QUOTE="
I have heard multiple reports of it running hot. It would make sense if its PWM, and sending 20W, then 6 watts, flipping back and forth to get you 13 watts total. Each time it sends max power, the juice burns, then goes back down.
[/QUOTE]

What if you are using it in voltage mode and not wattage mode? Does it burst up and down in volts to get a rounded volt amount?

 

[Midniteoyl]

Yes.. thats the way PWM works - it modulates a pulse's width to avg out to a desired voltage.

 

[Tripster]

Looks like I will wait for the iStick V2...that Vapors Shark though (not rDNA)!

 

[Hermit]

I have heard multiple reports of it running hot. It would make sense if its PWM, and sending 20W, then 6 watts, flipping back and forth to get you 13 watts total. Each time it sends max power, the juice burns, then goes back down.

What if you are using it in voltage mode and not wattage mode? Does it burst up and down in volts to get a rounded volt amount?

Yes.. thats the way PWM works - it modulates a pulse's width to avg out to a desired voltage.

There's two different things, and the second is by far the greater flaw...

1. PWM is switching a fixed voltage on and off quickly to get the effect of a lower voltage. There's some debate on how this affects the vape compared to using a steady voltage output ('rattlesnake' effect etc).

2. The calculation of what % of time is on vs off can be done as a voltage average or a power average (aka RMS voltage). The power average is what needs to be used for vaping; there's no debate on that. Using the voltage average will put more power into the coil(s) - see the graph I posted earlier of 'what you set' vs 'what you get'.

 

[aldenf]

Phil put the iStick in his Queue yesterday...

http://www.tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/2014/10/02/new-in-the-queue-10214-the-istick/

 

[richardrpsgt]

I got mine in the mail today from avidvaper.com. Im running my mini nautilus on it with the 1.8 coil. Set at 8 watts the vape feels like my itazte vv set at 11 watts. I haven't pushed it over 9 watts yet but it is pleasantly warm at that setting.
Do you think as the battery drains I will have to increase the set power to maintain the same feel?
I'm absolutely thrilled with this little marvel. The numbers aren't important to me,the vape is and its wonderful.
All I need to do now is figure out how to drill out the mini naut to increase airflow.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[Tripster]

Damn it, I found a vendor who actually has them in-stock...Resistance is Futile...MUST resit...DO IT...HELP, explain to me why I shouldn't press "Checkout".

 

[AquaJoe]

I got mine in the mail today from avidvaper.com. Im running my mini nautilus on it with the 1.8 coil. Set at 8 watts the vape feels like my itazte vv set at 11 watts. I haven't pushed it over 9 watts yet but it is pleasantly warm at that setting.
Do you think as the battery drains I will have to increase the set power to maintain the same feel?
I'm absolutely thrilled with this little marvel. The numbers aren't important to me,the vape is and its wonderful.
All I need to do now is figure out how to drill out the mini naut to increase airflow.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

No I have not noticed a need to increase the voltage as the battery dies. The vape seems to be the same regardless of the battery level.

Even though this device runs hot, I still love it. If they change this to Vrms and a spring loaded 510 this device would be prefect!!

 

[kelli]

the place i ordered my i-sticks from on ebay had their listing removed, so now i can't even track my order. hopefully they are in my PO box today. i hate ebay.....the self appointed vape police.

 

[UncleRJ]

the place i ordered my i-sticks from on ebay had their listing removed, so now i can't even track my order. hopefully they are in my PO box today. i hate ebay.....the self appointed vape police.

Hopefully eBay has a reccord of the transaction if something goes south on your order. And then you have PayPal protection?

 

[Sparks]

There's two different things, and the second is by far the greater flaw...

1. PWM is switching a fixed voltage on and off quickly to get the effect of a lower voltage. There's some debate on how this affects the vape compared to using a steady voltage output ('rattlesnake' effect etc).

2. The calculation of what % of time is on vs off can be done as a voltage average or a power average (aka RMS voltage). The power average is what needs to be used for vaping; there's no debate on that. Using the voltage average will put more power into the coil(s) - see the graph I posted earlier of 'what you set' vs 'what you get'.

Just got back and wow Hermit you've done a great job since my first mention of thinking it was running hot, looks confirmed for sure, this is falsely advertised and I for one am not happy, being I vape exclusively at around 3.8v UP to 4.2v but then only with 2.0ohm coils and high VG, so 90% of my vape is messed up with this Istick, so you've really done a great job there sir and I thank you but now what?? Return them?? It's a cool device just the wrong chip set, like the DNA20 same issue if I recall. Could have vaped straight off a 2200maH battery for less than what this cost. Sent a message to Pbusardo to see if he'll test this also, great job pal

 

[Sparks]

Damn it, I found a vendor who actually has them in-stock...Resistance is Futile...MUST resit...DO IT...HELP, explain to me why I shouldn't press "Checkout".

Have you gone to Avid vaper last I saw was they had some up posted and they told me they had more in stock and their price is honest..

 

[Tripster]

Have you gone to Avid vaper last I saw was they had some up posted and they told me they had more in stock and their price is honest..

Sold out but I think I am goin to wait till V2...who knows, I miight buy one cause I do need a secondary mod...been rockin one mod since 6/6/2013.

 

[Sparks]

There's two different things, and the second is by far the greater flaw...

1. PWM is switching a fixed voltage on and off quickly to get the effect of a lower voltage. There's some debate on how this affects the vape compared to using a steady voltage output ('rattlesnake' effect etc).

2. The calculation of what % of time is on vs off can be done as a voltage average or a power average (aka RMS voltage). The power average is what needs to be used for vaping; there's no debate on that. Using the voltage average will put more power into the coil(s) - see the graph I posted earlier of 'what you set' vs 'what you get'.

I bought two of these and I'm starting to fell my neck heating up, this is messed up, variable voltage??? Ya when it gets down to 3.6v?? So only charge it half way? Wow hum, good job..!!

 

[Tripster]

Found another vendor with the Full Kit and reasonable price but @Hermit and others are makin it difficult to purchase one.

 

[Sparks]

Sold out but I think I am goin to wait till V2...who knows, I miight buy one cause I do need a secondary mod...been rockin one mod since 6/6/2013.

If you use 2.0 coils and higher it'll work fine, thicker juice, for me it's the false advertising of variable volt and it's not on all levels it appears.
I had mentioned way back that I thought it was hot and Hermit took that to the next level, very cool of him and has for me confirmed my thoughts, I vape at 3.8v mostly so it was real noticeable almost immediately and when I turned it down to 3.0v no diff... I think smart to wait for Eleaf to wise up and get a different chip set, great form factor but smooched the pooch with the variable part

 

[Tripster]

If you use 2.0 coils and higher it'll work fine, thicker juice, for me it's the false advertising of variable volt and it's not on all levels it appears.
I had mentioned way back that I thought it was hot and Hermit took that to the next level, very cool of him and has for me confirmed my thoughts, I vape at 3.8v mostly so it was real noticeable almost immediately and when I turned it down to 3.0v no diff... I think smart to wait for Eleaf to wise up and get a different chip set, great form factor but smooched the pooch with the variable part

I strictly use 1.6ohm Aspire BVC's and 50/50 & 100% VG.

 

[Sparks]

All I have done with this Istick is leave it on 3.0v and just know it's going to be hot and vape my higher ohm coils and thicker juice and use my other devices for what I usually vape, with that said for me this thing is pretty sorry, what a let down, always something I guess, THE MVP lives to see another year... LOL

 

[Sparks]

I strictly use 1.6ohm Aspire BVC's and 50/50 & 100% VG.

Me to exactly, and it will be hot, that's my setup exactly

 

[Tripster]

All I have done with this Istick is leave it on 3.0v and just know it's going to be hot and vape my higher ohm coils and thicker juice and use my other devices for what I usually vape, with that said for me this thing is pretty sorry, what a let down, always something I guess, THE MVP lives to see another year... LOL

GAAH! I have dreamed about a mod like this and there is a hiccup with the chip...GAAH!

 

[moecat]

Mine just arrived.

Tiny compared to the Hana clone!


Another pic with the Nautilus. The tank hangs over the edge a little ... like I give a rat's ass


Note: mine does NOT vape hotter than expected. Perhaps just a luck of the draw. In my opinion, definitely an MVP killer.

 

[Tripster]

Mine just arrived.

Tiny compared to the Hana clone!
View attachment 6776

Another pic with the Nautilus. The tank hangs over the edge a little ... like I give a rat's ass
View attachment 6777

Note: mine does NOT vape hotter than expected. Perhaps just a luck of the draw. In my opinion, definitely an MVP killer.

I'm going to wing it and place my order...not nice!

 

[Lefty]

I canceled my pre-order the other day. I think I'll wait till the dust settles. I find it more concerning that some seem to vape hot while others don't than if they all did. I intended to give one as a gift and maybe keep one to play with but I'd hate to give one that might be problematical. Maybe V2 will have it sorted out and I agree a spring loaded or adjustable 510 would be nice.

 

[Tripster]

 

[Hermit]

Note: mine does NOT vape hotter than expected. Perhaps just a luck of the draw. In my opinion, definitely an MVP killer.

At what setting though?

 

[Hermit]

{iLeaf video}

I note he doesn't mention RMS even once

 

[Lefty]

Good to hear. Hopefully Busardo's tests will agree.

 

[Tripster]

I placed my order for The Full Kit...

 

[kelli]

Hopefully eBay has a reccord of the transaction if something goes south on your order. And then you have PayPal protection?

hope so, but as you probably know, paypal is owned by ebay. so............

 

[Hermit]

Good to hear. Hopefully Busardo's tests will agree.

It doesn't settle it for me yet... but at the same time, I hope I'm wrong

 

[kelli]

lots of buzz kill on this thread about my new toys that i haven't even received yet. makes me all sad and stuff.

 

[Lefty]

It doesn't settle it for me yet... but at the same time, I hope I'm wrong

Me either. That's why I'm waiting on a little more in depth testing from Phil. I doubt that everyone who thinks theirs is firing hot is imagining it. May be a quality control thing IDK.

 

[Hermit]

lots of buzz kill on this thread about my new toys that i haven't even received yet. makes me all sad and stuff.

Would you like me to put some buzz back in your toys?

 

[Whiskey]

Kelli I am alternating vaping on my two since I got them I haven't picked up anything else and I have some of the top mods out there, none of the confusing things (for me) posted have bothered me , for myself I don't look at alot of the technical olm,voltage wattage things I just adjust it to where it suits me and I will tell you, it works better than my MVP did and a slew of my other mods, I stacked bats to get better power and this little guys gives me as much as I need. Hope that helped.

 

[kelli]

Kelli I am alternating vaping on my two since I got them I haven't picked up anything else and I have some of the top mods out there, none of the confusing things (for me) posted have bothered me , for myself I don't look at alot of the technical olm,voltage wattage things I just adjust it to where it suits me and I will tell you, it works better than my MVP did and a slew of my other mods, I stacked bats to get better power and this little guys gives me as much as I need. Hope that helped.

it did, thanks. i am vapid when it comes to all that electrical jargon, i just want it to taste good. you are a comfort.

 

[Tripster]

Kelli I am alternating vaping on my two since I got them I haven't picked up anything else and I have some of the top mods out there, none of the confusing things (for me) posted have bothered me , for myself I don't look at alot of the technical olm,voltage wattage things I just adjust it to where it suits me and I will tell you, it works better than my MVP did and a slew of my other mods, I stacked bats to get better power and this little guys gives me as much as I need. Hope that helped.

You manipulated me into pressing Checkout!

 

[kelli]

Would you like me to put some buzz back in your toys?

oh please....hook me up....can't wait.

 

[Tripster]

oh please....hook me up....can't wait.

 

[Hermit]

You manipulated me into pressing Checkout!

Mine got shipped as I was debating canceling, but I'd pretty much decided not to anyway. While they might not be the all-purpose device I wanted, they'll still be useful.

 

[Whiskey]

You manipulated me into pressing Checkout!

Want some ice cream????

 

[kelli]

Mine got shipped as I was debating canceling, but I'd pretty much decided not to anyway. While they might not be the all-purpose device I wanted, they'll still be useful.

may you get the buzz you seek, dear

 

[Tripster]

Want some ice cream????

I'm lactose intolerant but yes please and thank you!