Guide to Mixing by Weight

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid - Guides, Tips & Tricks!' started by Botboy141, Oct 5, 2014.

  1. Botboy141

    Botboy141 Bronze Contributor

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    Whether you're looking to make your blends be more consistent, avoid clean up, avoid cross contamination, mix larger batch sizes, or are just trying to avoid the long term cost of buying syringes and other mixing instruments, well, this is written for you.

    Supplies
    There are very few supplies that are REQUIRED to mix by weight. They are:

    1.) Scale - Scales come in many different varieties and there are tons that would work for most people. There is one major thing you need to AVOID when looking for a scale. You need a scale that DOES NOT have an AUTO-SHUT OFF feature, or at least if it has one, it needs to be on a long delay. A lot of scales by default have a 10 or 15 second auto-shut off, this can mess you up very badly if your scale shuts off while you are trying to add ingredients to a mix. I recommend:
    American Weigh Scales LB-501 Digital Kitchen Scale

    2.) Pipettes - These are only needed if you have flavoring bottles that do NOT have dropper tops. You can find them on Amazon for ~$20 for a box of 500. This will last the average DiY'er a very very very long time.

    3.) Bottles - You will want some dropper bottles for adding PG/VG and Nicotine to your mixes. I'd recommend at least an 8oz bottle, however, if you mix smaller quantities for the most part, you can probably survive with 4oz bottles for PG and VG and a 1 oz for 100mg NIC. I use 4oz for nic and 8oz for PG/VG. You can find these on amazon for under $3 each, or go to a company like www.usplastic.com and get them much cheaper (but have to pay higher shipping).

    Calculator
    Not too much I need to say here other than give you some basic values. There's only one Calculator that I have used since I started DiY'ing and it works wonderfully for mixing by weight. Calculator Link.

    The basic values that you need to know for mixing by weight are below.

    Weight of PG: 1.038 grams per ml
    Weight of VG: 1.26 grams per ml
    Weight of Pure Nicotine: 1.01 grams per ml
    Weight of 100mg in PG: 1.0352 grams per ml
    Weight of 100mg in VG: 1.235 grams per ml

    If you have a mix of Nicotine that is not 100mg the calculation is fairly simple:

    48mg VG based nicotine solution. That's 4.8% nicotine in VG. Let's just pretend we have 100ml as it's easier than dealing with a lot of decimal points. The total weight of nicotine in this solution would be 1.01 x 4.8 = 4.848g. Add in the other 95.2ml of VG and you have 1.26 x 95.2 = 119.952g. Add the two together, and you get 124.8 grams in 100ml solution or 1.248 grams per ml. The same can be done for any nicotine base or solution if it isn't shipped to you with an MSDS or you no longer have it.

    When it comes to flavors, there are a couple of thoughts/theories surrounding mixing by weight when dealing with flavors. Many people enter the specific gravity as indicated on an MSDS for every flavor that they have. I feel this is a complete waste of time. After searching hundreds of MSDS sheets for flavors, all flavors fall into a range of .93g per ml to 1.07g per ml.

    In order to achieve personal consistency for your juices though, all that is relevant is that you use the SAME value, every time for any given flavor. I simply use a value of 1. This means that whether or not my flavors actually weigh 1 gram per ml, I always pretend they do. Percentages in any given recipe of mine will always be the exact same for me, however, if I am trying to recreate someone elses recipe, or they are mixing mine, there's a chance I'll be off a little bit (no more than 7% which is about the margin of error most people get when mixing by volume).

    Method
    The method is pretty subjective but I'll share what I do. It's fairly simple. Any scale you buy should come with a 'tare' button. This resets the scale to zero regardless of the weight on it. This is a button you use quite frequently.

    Basically, start off by setting your bottle on the scale, whatever it is you want to mix into. Sometimes for me this is finished bottles, other times when I'm making larger batches, it's 250ml Amber glass bottles.

    Now your bottle is on the scale, turn your scale on, this starts your scale @ 0.00g. If you turned it on first and set your bottle on after, no big deal, just press the 'tare' button. Now, The calculator I linked above, gives you the weights you need to add for your Nicotine, VG, PG, and each flavor. I always go in order so I don't miss anything or forget my place (I also have my bottles set up in the same orderly line in my mixing space just to make sure).

    For example: I'm making a 15ml batch of my Princess Cake (fruitier version recipe). I'm using 100mg VG nicotine, and am looking for an end result of 40/60 PG/VG.

    The calculator gives me these outputs.

    [​IMG]

    I start by adding 0.556 grams of nicotine to my bottle, I round this to 0.56 as your scale likely only reads to the hundredth (at least mine does, thousandth readings on a scale will cost you ~20x the price of the scale). Then press 'tare'.

    Next I add my PG (4.476g) rounded to 4.48g. Then press 'tare'. Then VG 10.773 grams rounded to 10.77. Then press 'tare'. Then add your flavors pressing tare after each one. Before you know it, you've mixed your first bottle and have no mess to clean up.

    Congratulations, you just mixed your first batch of juice by weight.

    Any questions, shoot away.
     
  2. VapingJunkie

    VapingJunkie Down with the Clown Silver Contributor

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    Brilliant post! You're one of the few people on this site who uses the same juice calculator as me. I love the inventory feature in that one, but wish it had a minimize button. I didn't do a whole lot of volume mixing before I decided it was too inefficient and painstaking to continue. I already had a scale (don't ask why ;)) so all I had to do was configure my program, and get some smaller bottles to make things super-easy. Now I can go from a recipe concept in my head, through the program into a saved recipe with repeatable numbers, to make a bottle of steeping juice in less than ten minutes. Twenty to sixty minutes in various steep stages, and now I've got something deliciously vapable! Thanks for the guide, I hope it gets to the eyes of every interested aspiring DIY vaper!
     
  3. junquedujour

    junquedujour Member For 3 Years

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    thanks much for posting this Botboy141. i am still on the fence about going this route, but am saving this info to a file for if/when the time comes that i make the jump. :)
     
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  4. Grumpy

    Grumpy New Member

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    Botboy141 post is right on the money. I've been doing it the exact same way for several months with excellent results. I started with a AWS100 scale i got off ebay for $9.00 but always had to mix small amounts due to the cut off time.
    I recently bought an IBalance 201 with wall adapter and battery backup off Amazon for $82.00, No cut off time, no rushing to add various flavors.
    This is the only way to d.i.y.
     
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  5. Laughmore

    Laughmore Bronze Contributor

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    Just curious if anyone can verify the recommended scale is sensitive enough to register single drops - I've had a $15 AWS "acPro-200" pocket scale for a while that often misses drops. Not sure if my shiz is broken, too cheap to get the job done in the first place, or both.

    The time and hassle of rinsing syringes during a mix, along with shuffling through a drawer for ingredients (for another thread), is sometimes the reason I put off mixing... so over it. Big box of pipettes is a good idea once I have a reliable scale.
     
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  6. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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  7. Laughmore

    Laughmore Bronze Contributor

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    Thanks @Huckleberried and I finally got the motivation to get over that first 5 minute learning curve with the calculator. Found and imported from ejuiemeup a base mix I made from 2011, added stuff to the inventory automatically - saved me a lot of questions! I've been using "eLiquid Recipe Manager Lite" for Android since eJuice-Me-Up more than a year ago. This thing shreds those in so many ways and I need to move from syringes.

    200ish inventory entries ahead of me (i swear i just did this on my phone) lol I guess it's inevitable. Remind me to buy vodka and rum (base enhancers, really) before inventory day comes.
    <.<
    >.>
    XD
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2015
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  8. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    Nice post Batboy. The only thing to keep in mind is that for mixing small quantities, a scale that measures to 0.01 grams in necessary. The one posted only goes to 0.1 grams which wouldn't work for mixing with highly concentrated flavors or anything smaller than 30ml.

    If anyone is unsure because of cost, there are many scales under $20 that do not have auto shut off and weigh to 0.01 accuracy.

    Thank you for taking the time to put this together.
     
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  9. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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  10. NGAHaze

    NGAHaze Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Does anyone have the weight of distilled water, PGA and vodka per ml?

    I thin my VG slightly with these sometimes and wanted to compensate for that difference in my mixes when mixing by weight.

    Yes I can weigh it myself of course but just thought I'd ask so I could verify with my results. :)
     
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  11. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    DW is 1g/1ml
    I'm pretty sure Vodka and PGA is the same.
     
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  12. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    To find any weight, just look for its density.
     
  13. Laughmore

    Laughmore Bronze Contributor

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    pure alcohol is juuuust under 0.8g/ml. Which brings me to my next point - (pure) alcohol and PG vary by weight by >20%!

    (i typed this before realizing I missed the paragraph in the OP on flavor weight... oops. Point still stands even though a workaround is in the OP)

    I noticed my new mixes by weight taste off, and I was adding with a syringe to check against my usual method. One flavor (Cinnamon Coffee Cake by Cap) was off by a bunch, looked it up, and found it is mostly alcohol. No problem, adjusted in the calc. Started looking up more flavors to make sure it wasn't the only one I missed...

    After about a third of what I looked up on manufacturer websites having some blend of liquids of varying densities at undisclosed ratios, I'm pretty skeptical. Are the densities of flavors disclosed by manufacturers? Specific gravity is omitted from the MSDS I could find.

    I thought my fucking scale was broken. lol imma noob. A master list would be AWESOME, in the meantime I could just make my own density measurements, question is if I trust my scale enough to honor the figures after it gets replaced eventually. Calibration weights are sounding interesting now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
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  14. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    If vodka is 80 proof, then wouldn't the rest be water? 60%? This isn't my forte.
     
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  15. Laughmore

    Laughmore Bronze Contributor

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    200 proof is 100% (.8g/ml). Cut 1:1 with water (100 proof) should be the average of the two: 0.9g/ml. That's as far as I'm going to go, brain already hurts. 0.92mg/ml for 80 proof? In practice the alcohol content can decrease over time/evap so aim high with the density I guess.

    I'm loving the idea of a community release of the calc with all the densities pre-input to a master flavor inventory. Maybe I'm overthinking this. I really just want to taste the same formula when I follow a recipe so I can talk about it knowing we're vaping the same thing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
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  16. krwynn

    krwynn New Member

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    Distilled water: 1.03
    .9% Sodium Chloride USP (NaCl): 1.0046

    The ones I know for sure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
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  17. NGAHaze

    NGAHaze Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Thanks @RocketPuppy, @Laughmore and @krwynn, much appreciated!

    I'm a little surprised that Saline is less than distilled water however, I wonder why that is?
     
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  18. Laughmore

    Laughmore Bronze Contributor

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    My question is why is distilled h2o not 1g? @kywynn

    Or special cases where a saline solution is less dense than distilled h2o?
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
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  19. NGAHaze

    NGAHaze Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I wasn't sure if there was a standard for the h2o that comprised the basis for the SG formula so initially I thought that perhaps dw might actually be less; didn't expect it to be more however.
     
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  20. Laughmore

    Laughmore Bronze Contributor

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    I thought the weight of a ml of water was part of the basis of the metric system lol

    edit: misread
     
  21. VapingBiker

    VapingBiker New Member

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    Love this calculator. The only issue I am currently having is that my PG % is off compared to the other calculators. I see the differences are in my flavoring. anyway to fix this?
     
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  22. Botboy141

    Botboy141 Bronze Contributor

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    Not sure exactly what you mean by off but if your flavors are PG based, you need to make sure you input them as PG based when you add them.
     
  23. VapingBiker

    VapingBiker New Member

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    Never mind, just figured it out
     
  24. VapingBiker

    VapingBiker New Member

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    It does not give me that option. It just asks for PG and VG percentages
     
  25. KGuardian

    KGuardian Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    The version of Recipe Calculator that I'm using (5.0.0.7) does have a minimize button. Drop down the 'Tools' menu and you'll find the option at the bottom of the list.
     
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  26. Manimal3497

    Manimal3497 Manimalizer Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Very informative post TYVM. Had a few questions as I am also wanting to start mixing by weight. I have 100mg nic but it is in a 50/50 base what would the weight of it be? would it be same as listed in OP? I suck at math so figure better to ask then beat myself up trying to over think it. :)
     
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  27. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    The best way to get an accurate measurement would be to measure out 1ml in a bottle and weigh it. Put an empty bottle on the scale, press "tare", then add 1ml for the weight of the nic base.
     
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  28. Manimal3497

    Manimal3497 Manimalizer Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    lol that was to easy see i was over thinking it :) TY Huckleberried that is what I shall do :)
     
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  29. McPuff

    McPuff Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    does this calculator share all of your store recipes with the public
     
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  30. Mert1975

    Mert1975 Member For 2 Years

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    I believe you can make your recipes private.

    Sent from my Venue 8 3830 using Tapatalk
     
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  31. Kay_Fun!

    Kay_Fun! Mad Scientist VU Donator Member For 2 Years

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    It defaults to keep your recipes private. You may change the recipe to public if you want to share it. Love this site!
     
  32. McPuff

    McPuff Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    cool. i plan on using it tonight! nice to have a program that tells you grams right off the get go.
     
  33. Yooperdad

    Yooperdad Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Thanks for the very complete post Botboy. Well done. I use the same calculator and can't imagine using any other. I also 2nd your comments about flavors in dropper top bottles. Over time I got rid of all flavor bottles, moving the contents to dropper top bottles and no longer buy flavors from companies that send in glass flat tops. No fuss and no mess.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  34. juicy76

    juicy76 Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I have yet to use this however...... As many flavors as you want to add is great job in my book...... Your post? Very extremely well done man. Sad to say after talking last year. I lost track of your treads after breaking 3 phones. I feel I have come a long way because of those willing to help. With that said I stayed up for 6 extra hours reading all your posts as well as getting diy ideas.... Thank you again man.....
     
  35. toleary1988

    toleary1988 New Member

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  36. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I can't say it's ever shut off on me. I set up all my flavors before I mix to save the time.
     
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  37. toleary1988

    toleary1988 New Member

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    Yea i set my flavors up as well
     
  38. Foggz

    Foggz Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    well if you 'tare' between flavors shouldn't matter if it does shut off... on the bright side.. I had just timed that scale for someone and think it's like 3 mins so def plenty of time.
     
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  39. toleary1988

    toleary1988 New Member

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    Ok yea if its 3 mins thats more than enough time... i got it because im starting to make 420ml+ batches and i was wondering if it would Be ok to mix in pint size mason jars? Like are the jars too heavy by themselves or when they are full.... i know im gonna tear the scale after i put the glass on and all i just dont wanna damage the scale... ive used digital scales before but inly for "dry goods" lol
     
  40. NGAHaze

    NGAHaze Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    That scale has a 500 gram limit so yeah, you might be pushing it with that heavy glass. I'd definitely weigh the glass first and if it's over 100g, you probably should look for something else to use if you are going to try and mix up 420ml batches. You can roughly estimate that your liquid measure is going to be at *least* 420g, more if you are mixing @ Max VG so you don't have a lot of wiggle room. You might have to go with two batches at time rather than just one.
     
  41. toleary1988

    toleary1988 New Member

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    The 2 batch doesnt seem unreasonabl. .. if i have to i guess thats what ill have to do​
     
  42. vengar.mv

    vengar.mv Member For 2 Years

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    I haven't started diying yet....totally new...but been trying read as much as I can....wondering if my thinking is on track.....

    I remember reading a thread where HIC was talking about making falvor concentrates.....would the same premise apply for a large batch like that listed above, and a scale that may not hold the entire mix?

    Could one mix the flavoring for the large batch seperately....in one container....then weigh the pg/vg/nic in the final container. Then, finally mix the two solutions together in the final container? Or would that "throw off" the final product??

    Again, just wondering if my thinking is in line with possible viable solutions.

    Thanks!


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I497 using Tapatalk
     
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  43. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I make a nice base and flavor bases, no issues with that and measuring by weight.

    @toleary1988, if you got the same scale that I linked to, its pretty small.
     
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  44. Oggy

    Oggy Silver Contributor

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    @vengar.mv As long as the measurements are the same, it will not make a difference. The total of your ingredients are ending up mixed together so it would be a good way to do larger batches.
     
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  45. NGAHaze

    NGAHaze Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Sure, you could do it that way and actually, that might even be easier. It shouldn't throw off the final product at all. It would result in one extra mixing container to clean but heck, that's no biggie. You also couldn't weigh the final product which is something that I tend to do just as a precaution but again, that isn't really a big deal.

    Yes, your thinking is totally in line! :)
     
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  46. vengar.mv

    vengar.mv Member For 2 Years

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    Thanks @NGAHaze!

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  47. vengar.mv

    vengar.mv Member For 2 Years

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    Thanks @Oggy!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I497 using Tapatalk
     
  48. NGAHaze

    NGAHaze Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Happy to help!

    Btw, welcome to the DIY club, I think you'll have a blast, not to mention, have great tasting juice that YOU control what goes into it. :)

    I think you are smart to do your research first too, something I wish I had done more of back when I first started. :eek: At least I can laugh about it now! :)
     
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  49. toleary1988

    toleary1988 New Member

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    Yea the exact same one except it comes with calibration weights
     
  50. Fenris4024

    Fenris4024 New Member

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    just ordered in the scale that @Huckleberried and @AmandaD linked, along with some pyrex beakers (50, 100 and 200ml) and some squeeze bottles for my VG and (rarely used these days) PG... mixing by weight should STUPIDLY simplify things for me, since I'm mixing for myself and a few friends now. If only I can get them all at the same nicotine/mls now....

    Thank you for the excellent write up and how to @Botboy141 :)
     

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