JuicyLucy
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I was always jealous of people who can say that, lol
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Vaping as a smoking cessation fails most of the time. From my observations
- Thread starter The Cromwell
- Start date
I was always jealous of people who can say that, lol
Yep Lucy, no one size fits all in vaping as smoking cessation.
It worked for most of those on here, but the route was different.
It worked for most of those on here, but the route was different.
I had the same motivation.. I hatef to damn near take a shower just to hold my baby girl.. I quit a few weeks after she was born.
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When I started looking into vaping 2ish years ago there were so many options it was overwhelming, but now... JFC, where the hell would you start
There's a difference between people experimenting with vaping and those actually intending to quit.. You have to want to quit to quit..
I know I'm preaching to the choir here but vaping isn't a smoking cessation tool, it's a harm reduction tool so even if a person smokes a few less smokes a day they still benefit....
I however quit the morning I first started vaping....
I think one of the issues is the vast diversity of motivations for smoking or vaping. Everyone takes something a little different out of the experience and frequently it can be subtle enough that we aren't aware of it all.
Because of that, there is quite a bit of trial and error involved in finding something that can truly replace smoking. That might be a hassle that many just don't want to deal with.
I vaped on and off since it came to market, but it wasn't until I found subohm that I actually quit. I was never really a dual user, I just kept switching back and forth.
With cigarettes, all of these things are wrapped up in a single product. With vaping, the variables are massive and what works for some may be terrible for another. That makes giving advice difficult and even detrimental.
However, trying to change this might remove a lot of that customization. Its tricky..
As mentioned though, I think the one unifying factor is the desire and choice to actually quit smoking. If we were able to educate and motivate those willing to quit to actively explore all facets, I think the success rate would increase. The problem is that costs increase too..
Perhaps some kind of starter kit could be designed. Modern regulated mods can meet a vast majority of needs, but then it might also include a few different types of atomizers (mtl, tank, and dripper maybe) with both premade coilheads and rebuildable options. Perhaps the mod itself could even be configured to be a tube or box while retaining regulation and OLED display.
Then, perhaps include a dozen or so different types of coils that range from low ohm (~0.1) to well over 1 ohm, as well as a variety of wrap sizes (both ID and wrap count), and several different styles (single, twisted, parallel, clapton, alien, etc.).
The idea would be to include "one of everything" so that the customer can try everything the market has to offer with a single purchase. Some starter kits do something similar, but I think it could be significantly more extensive.
It wouldnt reduce tinkering, or be some silver bullet, but it could be something to build on when it comes to increasing cessation success rates. The hard part would be keeping cost competitive, but perhaps the kit could be comprised of something like FT atomizer clones bought in bulk.
Because of that, there is quite a bit of trial and error involved in finding something that can truly replace smoking. That might be a hassle that many just don't want to deal with.
I vaped on and off since it came to market, but it wasn't until I found subohm that I actually quit. I was never really a dual user, I just kept switching back and forth.
With cigarettes, all of these things are wrapped up in a single product. With vaping, the variables are massive and what works for some may be terrible for another. That makes giving advice difficult and even detrimental.
However, trying to change this might remove a lot of that customization. Its tricky..
As mentioned though, I think the one unifying factor is the desire and choice to actually quit smoking. If we were able to educate and motivate those willing to quit to actively explore all facets, I think the success rate would increase. The problem is that costs increase too..
Perhaps some kind of starter kit could be designed. Modern regulated mods can meet a vast majority of needs, but then it might also include a few different types of atomizers (mtl, tank, and dripper maybe) with both premade coilheads and rebuildable options. Perhaps the mod itself could even be configured to be a tube or box while retaining regulation and OLED display.
Then, perhaps include a dozen or so different types of coils that range from low ohm (~0.1) to well over 1 ohm, as well as a variety of wrap sizes (both ID and wrap count), and several different styles (single, twisted, parallel, clapton, alien, etc.).
The idea would be to include "one of everything" so that the customer can try everything the market has to offer with a single purchase. Some starter kits do something similar, but I think it could be significantly more extensive.
It wouldnt reduce tinkering, or be some silver bullet, but it could be something to build on when it comes to increasing cessation success rates. The hard part would be keeping cost competitive, but perhaps the kit could be comprised of something like FT atomizer clones bought in bulk.
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AndriaD
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As you say, it's the hardest thing that some of us can ever do, or try to do.... and no, not everyone will succeed, and I think you're right, it's all about how much you want it -- do you want it enough to keep trying, to struggle, to keep trying new stuff to find just the right or easiest thing. I didn't find it *terribly* difficult the first time, but I was stupid enough to succumb to godawful temptation and start again, and getting free of it that 2nd time felt nearly impossible, until I just finally "jumped" -- and even then, if not for WTA, I probably wouldn't have made it.
AA is really the only effective way of getting and staying sober -- but a hell of a lot of folks either won't go, won't keep going, or just can't manage to stay sober even if they go every day -- but it's still the best and most-likely-to-succeed option. I think vaping is a bit like that.
Andria
I think it(vaping) only works for those that want to quit smoking. Those that try vaping because somebody asked them to but had no desire to quit smoking in mind, vaping won't help.
My wife did the same as yours and bought me a cigalike kit on the sly. I tried it and kept smoking. I didn't want to quit at the time. Two years later I decided to quit smoking. The first day was rough, as usual, and I remembered the cigalikes. I wasn't sure where I even left them. I found all the old stuff and started puffing. It was just enough to keep me from smoking.
Like you, most smokers I know that tried vaping went back to cigs. But, they really weren't trying very hard to quit the cigs in the first place.
I did the dual use thing for about four months. One night I lite one up smoked it and had the thought I should have just vaped. I haven't smoked since that night, it's been over eighteen months. I have helped two friends quit. My brother in law finally expressed some interest. I have a ego starter kit on the way for him. One of my best friends gave it a try when I first started vaping. He went back to smoking butt told me last week he is going to give vaping another try.
I see a lot of dual users at work. Of course there are a few at work including me that have not touched a cigarette in years. The main reason I see for people staying on cigarettes is A) Vaping is more complex (as was stated in the original post). B) People have been scared by all the misinformation so they are not sure if vaping is better for them. C) They are only using 3 or 6 nic and need a higher strength to get off the stinkies! . I have also noticed a bad trend - Almost all the new devices on the market are created and marketed for DIRECT LUNG HITS! This is a major problem because most people who smoke MOUTH TO LUNG hit. We really need to start pushing the MOUTH TO LUNG systems for people just starting to quit smoking and also offer them 12 to 18 nic. 6mg nicotine when Mouth To Lung hitting is like vaping air, almost zero throat hit. I used 24mg when I started vaping 7 years ago. Anywho, This is just my opinion of course and I could be full of shit, but it just seems like a lot of vape shops are pushing the super tanks with 3 or 6 mg juice at 50+ watts. We need to cater to the smokers needs first. They will get to the fun stuff later! LOL 
CV
CV
JuicyLucy
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I see a lot of dual users at work. Of course there are a few at work including me that have not touched a cigarette in years. The main reason I see for people staying on cigarettes is A) Vaping is more complex (as was stated in the original post). B) People have been scared by all the misinformation so they are not sure if vaping is better for them. C) They are only using 3 or 6 nic and need a higher strength to get off the stinkies! . I have also noticed a bad trend - Almost all the new devices on the market are created and marketed for DIRECT LUNG HITS! This is a major problem because most people who smoke MOUTH TO LUNG hit. We really need to start pushing the MOUTH TO LUNG systems for people just starting to quit smoking and also offer them 12 to 18 nic. 6mg nicotine when Mouth To Lung hitting is like vaping air, almost zero throat hit. I used 24mg when I started vaping 7 years ago. Anywho, This is just my opinion of course and I could be full of shit, but it just seems like a lot of vape shops are pushing the super tanks with 3 or 6 mg juice at 50+ watts. We need to cater to the smokers needs first. They will get to the fun stuff later! LOL
CV
I agree with with you are saying
I see a lot of dual users at work. Of course there are a few at work including me that have not touched a cigarette in years. The main reason I see for people staying on cigarettes is A) Vaping is more complex (as was stated in the original post). B) People have been scared by all the misinformation so they are not sure if vaping is better for them. C) They are only using 3 or 6 nic and need a higher strength to get off the stinkies! . I have also noticed a bad trend - Almost all the new devices on the market are created and marketed for DIRECT LUNG HITS! This is a major problem because most people who smoke MOUTH TO LUNG hit. We really need to start pushing the MOUTH TO LUNG systems for people just starting to quit smoking and also offer them 12 to 18 nic. 6mg nicotine when Mouth To Lung hitting is like vaping air, almost zero throat hit. I used 24mg when I started vaping 7 years ago. Anywho, This is just my opinion of course and I could be full of shit, but it just seems like a lot of vape shops are pushing the super tanks with 3 or 6 mg juice at 50+ watts. We need to cater to the smokers needs first. They will get to the fun stuff later! LOL
CV
I think its difficult to make such generalizations. High nic MTL was what everyone kept telling me would be the best to use to quit. Had I continued to listen, I'd still be smoking today!
I think the trick really is in providing some type of starter kit that covers all the bases, insteading of a one-size-fits-all approach.
Personally, I would have quit years earlier if I wasn't under the impression that low ohm, low nic was for "advanced" vapers that had already quit smoking.
AndriaD
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I see a lot of dual users at work. Of course there are a few at work including me that have not touched a cigarette in years. The main reason I see for people staying on cigarettes is A) Vaping is more complex (as was stated in the original post). B) People have been scared by all the misinformation so they are not sure if vaping is better for them. C) They are only using 3 or 6 nic and need a higher strength to get off the stinkies! . I have also noticed a bad trend - Almost all the new devices on the market are created and marketed for DIRECT LUNG HITS! This is a major problem because most people who smoke MOUTH TO LUNG hit. We really need to start pushing the MOUTH TO LUNG systems for people just starting to quit smoking and also offer them 12 to 18 nic. 6mg nicotine when Mouth To Lung hitting is like vaping air, almost zero throat hit. I used 24mg when I started vaping 7 years ago. Anywho, This is just my opinion of course and I could be full of shit, but it just seems like a lot of vape shops are pushing the super tanks with 3 or 6 mg juice at 50+ watts. We need to cater to the smokers needs first. They will get to the fun stuff later! LOL
CV
This is why I've used FA Flash since just a few weeks after I started vaping -- I had to start at 6mg, because anything higher made me nauseous, but I always want good TH. I was up to 10mg at one point, but still used Flash. Now that I'm at less than 4mg, I use even more. I've never been able to direct-lung hit, it just doesn't work if you have asthma; for the same reason, I can't use mega-wattage either -- 10w is just fine -- but I still gotta have TH.
But I sure wish to hell that RDA makers would get the hell off the tornado/hurricane attys. I want the great flavor an RDA offers, but I want it with a very tight draw. I never huffed my cigarettes, and I don't plan to start huffing my vape.
Andria
It took me forever it seems to switch completely. It was really a matter of 1. Banning smoking inside both the car and the house and 2. Finding the right flavor/setting/setup.
Once I hit around 33 watts with a subohm tank and Cuttwood Sugar Drizzle I was golden. Haven't smoked since. Last Christmas, in fact.
Now I have several I carry everywhere and several backups for the backups and one backup backup backup just in case. Never going back to the smokes. I feel better now than I have felt in years. Pisses me off so much that the FDA wants to take it away from ppl.
Once I hit around 33 watts with a subohm tank and Cuttwood Sugar Drizzle I was golden. Haven't smoked since. Last Christmas, in fact.
Now I have several I carry everywhere and several backups for the backups and one backup backup backup just in case. Never going back to the smokes. I feel better now than I have felt in years. Pisses me off so much that the FDA wants to take it away from ppl.
Doesn't sound any worse than any other smoking cessation method.
I know of only one 100% effective method of quitting smoking..... A funeral....
I stick with my 10% chance.... I know all the others I have tried were 100% failures, including cigalike vaping.
Been 2 years and 7 months since I smoked my last cigarette. Not bad when you consider my original vape was purchased for uses OTHER than stopping Cigarette Smoking.
I see a lot of dual users at work. Of course there are a few at work including me that have not touched a cigarette in years. The main reason I see for people staying on cigarettes is A) Vaping is more complex (as was stated in the original post). B) People have been scared by all the misinformation so they are not sure if vaping is better for them. C) They are only using 3 or 6 nic and need a higher strength to get off the stinkies! . I have also noticed a bad trend - Almost all the new devices on the market are created and marketed for DIRECT LUNG HITS! This is a major problem because most people who smoke MOUTH TO LUNG hit. We really need to start pushing the MOUTH TO LUNG systems for people just starting to quit smoking and also offer them 12 to 18 nic. 6mg nicotine when Mouth To Lung hitting is like vaping air, almost zero throat hit. I used 24mg when I started vaping 7 years ago. Anywho, This is just my opinion of course and I could be full of shit, but it just seems like a lot of vape shops are pushing the super tanks with 3 or 6 mg juice at 50+ watts. We need to cater to the smokers needs first. They will get to the fun stuff later! LOL
CV
yeah this is true we used to attract hard core smokers trying to kick now we are attracting dumb kids who want to blow huge clouds and see vaping as an accesory to their fashion statement........the MTL type of gear is not discussed anymore and the new vapers dismiss it because it doesn't blow clouds .you can imagine some 55 year old dude with a 35 year smoking habit thinking.....damn I would look stupid enough carrying around one of those mods, but I'd look like a total idiot at my age spewing out fumes like a volcano. it is why you don't see alot of middle aged people at vape conventions......don't get me wrong some of the young guys vaping are real sharp kids and interesting people to hang with,but then you you have the twits blowing captian crunch jellyfish in peoples faces.
You are right about the shops they shill all the sub-ohm stuff and sell the idea to newbies that the best vape is huge clouds....because the sell more juice that way.....they promote vaping huge quanties of low level nic that way you consume more juice to get your fix and they make more money also the big cloud thing sort of makes a total newb look like they know shit all about vaping...you look like an experinced vaper blowing huge clouds compared to the guy blowing 17 watts on a coil he built himself....most people that work in vape shops don't know very much about MTL vaping because most of them never did much of it, and so they can't really offer somebody new to vaping much choice.when recommending gear.
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If someone made a tank that came with.....
Two different Coil types. (one for high pg another for vg)
Two different RBA heads (one for high pg another for vg)
Two different air control rings (one for lung/mtl)
Two different drip tips, one wide bore one small bore
Something like that could work, maybe start out on the MTL, if that doesn't work you don't need to upgrade to go to sub-ohm just swap the parts... or even if you need to stealth vape you could switch it up.. it would be much more than a starter kit it would be more of a find your way kit...
Now that all sounds quite complicated for a beginner....
People are different and react differently, but vaping is fun to use while other methods are not and vaping actually emulates smoking while other methods do not.
Rather have an atty that is good for what it's designed for, rather then an atty designed to cover all bases but end up covering none.
AndriaD
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Problem is that any one atomizer, whether tank or RDA, really can't be great for both MtL or DtL -- there's just too much difference in airflow requirements. I always thought a Kayfun was too airy, though I got used to it, more or less -- when I heard people saying it was too tight, I couldn't figure out what in the HELL they were talking about. I've had people tell me this or that RDA could be tightened down for good MtL vaping... and it just wasn't so. For newbies though, it really should be a tight draw, because very, VERY few people huff their cigarettes; they only do that with that other substance, or after they start vaping for some reason.
Andria
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I'm down to 1.5mg nicotine
I'm almost done with VAPING.. It can be effective if user wants to and plans to quit...
VAPE ON
Even if I got down to 0mg -- which I won't, I need the nic to protect me from old age dementia! -- I STILL wouldn't be done with vaping, because it's the only thing that keeps me from smoking. Now that I'm off WTA, it has NOTHING to do with chemicals, everything to do with behavior.
Andria
What ur saying is
You will smoke cigarettes if I take away ur VAPE away for a day???
VAPE ON
JuicyLucy
My name is Lucy and I am a squonkaholic
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What ur saying is
You will smoke cigarettes if I take away ur VAPE away for a day???
VAPE ON
I'd get meaner than any cold-blooded heartless nurse thought of being
JuicyLucy
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You too??
If I take your VAPE a way for a day?? Will you smoke a cigarette?
VAPE ON
I'd certainly think about it
Can't say what I would actually do in a theoretical situation of someone taking my vape away and I wasn't locked up or incapacitated
AndriaD
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What ur saying is
You will smoke cigarettes if I take away ur VAPE away for a day???
VAPE ON
For a day? Possibly not... but I'd sure make your life not worth living, for doing it.
More than 1 day? Then yes, probably so.Andria
AndriaD
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Did you ever try not to VAPE?
VAPE ON
The last time I went 3-4 days without vaping, I went back to smoking, and it took a whole month to pry those bastards back out of my flesh.
Andria
Wow
VAPING is an effective smoking cessation tool
But it didn't really make you quit stinkies correct?
VAPE ON
JuicyLucy
My name is Lucy and I am a squonkaholic
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Did you ever try not to VAPE?
VAPE ON
A few times for brief periods of time and I get agitated quickly so haven't bothered in awhile.
Not a fan of optional suffering - there is plenty to be had that can't be avoided
AndriaD
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Wow
VAPING is an effective smoking cessation tool
But it didn't really make you quit stinkies correct?
VAPE ON
MAKE me? No, *I* made me. But vaping (plus WTA, the 2nd time.. couldn't have done it without that) gave me THE WAY to do it. Without vaping, I never could have. I had completely given up on trying to quit after 4 utter failures; when I started vaping just 'cuz I wanted to stay in the house and not on the front porch, I realized I had finally found the way to do it.
Andria
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I go for maybe an hour-ish, when we're doing the "big grocery shop"... and the whole time I'm in the checkout line, I'm thinking HURRY THE FUCK UP SO I CAN GET OUTSIDE AND VAPE! If I have to go for longer than an hour, I find a restroom; 85% PG means I can stealth vape if necessary.
Andria
Is it safe to say that you will never quit VAPING?
VAPING made you not smoke cigarettes but it didn't really 100% kick the bad habit correct?
VAPE ON
JuicyLucy
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Longest I've gone since I quit smoking was nine hours when I flew to Hawaii
Thought I was going to die or kill somebody by the time we found the out-of-the-way smoking section at the Honolulu airport.
Thought I was going to die or kill somebody by the time we found the out-of-the-way smoking section at the Honolulu airport.
AndriaD
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Is it safe to say that you will never quit VAPING?
VAPING made you not smoke cigarettes but it didn't really 100% kick the bad habit correct?
VAPE ON
That probably is safe to say. Because it's really not the chemicals, which can be weaned off; it's the behavior, and changing behavior is harder than ANY chemical dependency -- ask a compulsive overeater or gambler or wife-beater.
It's FAR easier to quit a thing when you have an adequate substitute for it.Vaping didn't MAKE me do anything. Vaping gives me a substitute for something I was doing that would surely have killed me a lot faster than if I didn't do it. Without that substitute, I'd go back to the deadly thing, no question about it. But the 2nd time, the chemicals were a key factor since I was recuperating from a godawful intestinal sepsis -- the surgeon said that appendix was in *tatters*, so it had already ruptured; if they'd waited even one more hour to do the surgery, I'd probably have had peritonitis. As it was, I had to take MASSIVE antibiotics, and was ungodly sick for almost a week after the surgery. My body needed those OTHER alkaloids, to help with the serious inflammation, and get my digestion back on track.
Andria
VAPING AS A SUBSTITUTE IS FAIR CONCLUSION..That probably is safe to say. Because it's really not the chemicals, which can be weaned off; it's the behavior, and changing behavior is harder than ANY chemical dependency -- ask a compulsive overeater or gambler or wife-beater.
Vaping didn't MAKE me do anything. Vaping gives me a substitute for something I was doing that would surely have killed me a lot faster than if I didn't do it. Without that substitute, I'd go back to the deadly thing, no question about it. But the 2nd time, the chemicals were a key factor since I was recuperating from a godawful intestinal sepsis -- the surgeon said that appendix was in *tatters*, so it had already ruptured; if they'd waited even one more hour to do the surgery, I'd probably have had peritonitis. As it was, I had to take MASSIVE antibiotics, and was ungodly sick for almost a week after the surgery. My body needed those OTHER alkaloids, to help with the serious inflammation, and get my digestion back on track.
Andria
geez...
VAPE ON
I'd like to think that if I had to stop vaping for some reason, that I wouldn't go back to smoking, but I can't be sure.
At least for the moment, I have no intention to stop vaping.
At least for the moment, I have no intention to stop vaping.
Not really, have it assembled as a MTL beginner
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I agree, it's hard to know. But even after 2 yrs without a cigarette, there are still sometimes those little whispers, "cigarette?" Since I can vape, they never get any louder, and vaping makes them go away. But if I couldn't vape, I'm pretty sure the whispers would soon become shouts, and would ultimately turn into full-body assaults. And I just can't and won't make myself that miserable, for any reason. So I'll keep vaping, and the FDA can kiss my ass.
Andria
And anyone that tried to stop smoking in the past knows that it only takes one.
So as an aside to this I just went to my local vape shop. I live in a town of 30,000 people in rural oklahoma and we are blessed with friendly and knowledgeable vape staff. I saw 8 people come and go, all using regulated mods on big tanks. The staff were selling juice as well as servicing the rigs. Without the support of the shop owner and employees I'm not sure most of them would be able to stick with it. I think to make vaping a true substitute it needs to be simpler than it currently is for sub ohm vaping. Something like a refillable ego cartridge but for sub ohming. A nonregulated battery that can do both 1 ohm plus for small cartos and attys but can also hit the low resistance high power stuff while keeping safety in mind. Skmething like the ijust2 setup. Just plug and play with easy upgrades along the way
AndriaD
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Unregulated mods suit VERY few people -- you can't do anything with them except just one thing; to make them vape any differently, you need a different kind of coil.
Andria
yeah, and so...you can get whatever vape you want by building the coil that gives you the type of vape you want....in close to 4 years now I only vaped on a regulated mod for about 5 months when I was starting out.the rest has been on mech mods...I can't say as I can see any advantage to regulated mods other than a consistent vape.and I can see more downsides...chip to burn out,can't fix them easily,much more fragile....
You know... I like nicotine... Now I can enjoy it without getting cancer and heart disease I really see no point in stopping...Is it safe to say that you will never quit VAPING?
VAPING made you not smoke cigarettes but it didn't really 100% kick the bad habit correct?
VAPE ON
it's not that big of a threat to your health about the same as caffine.....an I'm not turning mormon any time soon.though my goal is to quit vaping as well nothing belongs in your lungs but air.Nicotine is not good for us either...you know that right?!
VAPE ON