Why 90% of E-liquid on The Market Is a Rip-Off

[vapedick]

http://bgr.com/2014/10/07/apple-vs-samsung-earnings/

 

[Gratefulvapes]

I have been Vaping for an entire year now. Within that single year I have learned so much more about e-cigarettes and everything related than I would have ever expected. Within that year I went from a Mod Envy fan trying to quit smoking to a young, passionate entrepreneur of a rapidly growing E-liquid company and a one of a kind vaping enthusiast . I have always been a business-minded person, when I was in 6th grade I would buy blank skateboards off of ebay for $10 a piece, paint them and sell them to my friends at school. I even had a local sponsored skate team to represent the company. Of course, as the causality for most entrepreneurs unfolds, that business plan did not the capacity for longevity, neither did my next business, or the next one.
That is when I started vaping, as I became more and more interested in Vaping and E-cigarettes, I started doing more research as all vapers eventually do. A friend of mine who got me into Vaping was far ahead of me in know-how; we would talk frequently about juice, mods, whats new, whats good, etc. At the time I was a poor, unemployed, struggling freelance graphic designer and videographer. I was looking for something else to invest all the assets I had. At the same time, my friend and I had been having troubles really finding good juice that we liked. We tried MBV, Fanceejuice, Space Jam, Greenman, all the popular stuff at the time. So my friend starts looking up stuff about DIY, that leads to him looking at bulk prices of ingredients, and eventually doing all the math for how much a 30ml bottle would cost. I can't remember the exact number he came up with but it was around $1. When I heard that, the first thing I thought was "No way, that's just not possible." So I spent a few days searching the web, looking at wholesale vg/pg and other ingredients throwing numbers together and what do you know?
Currently, before wage expenses, spillage, and all the other small costs that go along with operating a laboratory and a general business, it COSTS US $1.09 in ingredients on average to manufacture a 30ml glass bottle (clear or amber) including childproof dropper caps! And that is without us even buying ingredients in the highest possible bulk quantities. When I found these numbers out, I was outraged. Not even just at the industry itself, but mainly at the Vaping community. I was angry that no one of importance in the Vaping community has ever brought this to the public's attention. Large California companies are ripping you people off and laughing as they drive away in their Mercedes.
I have become so passionate about this problem that it pushed me not only start my own company and sell juice at fair prices, but to also advocate for lower prices in the industry as it is just downright UNFAIR for the lower class. It is my personal opinion that the roots of Vaping is 100% cessation. Vaping has ALWAYS been about quiting smoking, and a large part of that is cost reduction. The Industry has not only been turned into a trend-based consumer whirlpool, but it has actually become MORE EXPENSIVE than smoking cigarettes. With more RDAs coming out and more higher powered regulated devices, low-ohm vaping is at an all time high in popularity. I go through about 60ml a week vaping at around 3-6mg/ml. I consider that to be pretty average but quite a lot compared to when I first started vaping. When I smoked cigarettes, it would take me about 2-3 days to finish a pack. I have plenty of customers and friends who say they can easily vape a 30ml or even a 60ml in a single day. Now consider this, when I smoked cigarettes, it would cost me $20 a week tops to buy cigarettes, that was granted that I had friends who let me bum some; if you are buying juice from a vape shop or California company, you are paying around $44 a week not including what it costs for accessories, cotton, wire, all of which are also all overpriced in pretty much any vape shop. The reason why I believe this is such an important injustice is that at least 50% of all the profit made from juice which apparently from my numbers can theoretically be as much as a 2000% return on investment is going straight into the pockets of these rich business owners who most of, from my personal experience, don't even vape or know that much about vaping. It is simply unjust to victimize people who are trying to quit a deadly addiction by picking up a revolutionary new technology and make money off of them simply because they have not put in hours of research. Now I understand that not all companies or business are at fault and that there are a lot of good people and influences in the vaping community, and this is just the tip of the iceberg, but one thing is for sure: There is already a large amount of corruption in the Vaping Community and I will be damned if I am going to sit idly by and watch it continue to grow without speaking out and taking action.

Sincerely With Compassion For All Earthlings,
Ambrose Fino
Owner/Founder
Dreamy Vapor Company

As another business owner and e-liquid manufacture, I will say that the margins are no where near the levels this guy is talking about. Truth be told it is near impossible to make a profit with out selling something like 1500 bottles a month to make something like a 75% profit. That margin isn't insane. You have to factor rent, employees, more so if you have a b&m and a lab like we do. It gets expensive quick with all the stuff that you don't think about.

That being said huge companies like halo and good life, that have massive distribution networks make these 2000% profit margins. And now your starting to see the drop in peoples price.

As the industry expands and more people jump on the liquid wagon it makes less sales for everyone else. Until a company get big it is unfair to say that they are over charging you. We did a cost spread sheet and the results amazed me. It was always my assumption that we were making shit tons off this stuff, but that really isn't the case.

There are exceptions to what I'm saying, but as of now there really are not that many huge companies that meet this quota, to be considered ripping you off.

This industry is about ego, everyone wants to be big and the truth is most are struggling.

 

[Chainvapor]

Bottom Line is, people will charge what the market will bear. This is not about ripping people off, it is about simple economics. More profit means more R&D which means higher quality, better tasting juice (in most cases, not all cases). Also, I get so sick of people whining about high prices on juice. Cigarettes are up to over $50 a carton or higher in some states. If you vape modestly, $50 in juice can last you 2 weeks EASILY. If you drip on an RDA running 100 watts or higher all the time you are going to burn through a TON of juice. Just the way it is. Dr. Crimmy charges $30 for 120ml of juice. Is his juice the best tasting? Not to me, but I still get some now and then because it is not bad and it is cheap. I really like Nicoticket juice better than Dr. Crimmy, but it is more expensive. Now Nicoticket does run specials of 20%-40% off of a flavor weekly plus other specials here and there. So it does help soften the blow of Nicoticket's retail pricing. But I buy Nicoticket because I love the juice and I know the money is going to a great company with lots of R&D into awesome flavors. In conclusion, people will pay what they believe is reasonable for a product. If you think someone is ripping you off, quit buying their juice, but for god sakes quit belly aching about it. Enough is enough.

Happy Vaping Everyone!
CV

 

[Incredivapes.com]

When we started our online ejuice company, we didn't care what others charged. We knew the cost and knew that we could easily compete. After a lot of work and research, we started Incredivapes and our prices are the lowest around. We know that many people have a hard time financially. When discussing our pricing options, we know our juice was good enough to charge a premium price for it. There is not one flavor we offer that you can't taste. Taste was the reason I started DIY in the first place. I was tired of ordering 'high quality' ejuice only to spend the money and taste nothing. To me, that was so wrong. Our site was born to offer the Wal Mart style shopper an alternative. While we sell at incredibly low margins, we can still make a profit while offering the consumer the chance to get something very cheap. While we skimp on the price, we didn't skimp on the amount of flavor. You can offer at a much reduced price and still offer a quality product. We don't release a flavor that has not been tested and approved by at least 3 people. Once in a while they report they don't care for the taste, but they always report plenty of flavor. I am not trying to put anyone else out of business, nor will I criticize them for their prices. I use our price as a selling point, but I have no idea what they have invested and what their need to cover expenses may be. I certainly doubt anyone selling ejuice is riding around in their Mercedes from the profits, but if that is the case, good for them. No one has forced anyone else to purchase from them.

 

[VapingN252]

I know I'm seeing more and more companies drop their juice prices. I know you won't ever see ebay like prices ($20 for 120mL), but they are getting better. I gotta stop putting it off and start DIYing.

 

[4jay]

I only read the first page, and I can't tell if the OP is being serious, or trolling.

He goes on this HUGE rant, talking about how 90% of e-liquid vendors are rip offs because they sell their e-liquid for a certain price. THEN, he goes on to sell e-liquid for a SIMILAR price to many great vendors, yet he explains "why he has to sell it at $13 for 30ml". Kind of ironic, right? Insulting 90% of ALL e-liquid vendors , the plugging your OWN business, and pretending to do it out of the kindness of your heart.

I don't think I've ever read a post on this forum yet, besides his, that claims to do something out of the kindness of his heart, for the entire vape community, and yet at the same time, insulting such a HUGE portion of the community.

He also insults our intelligence by insinuating that we are too stupid , or lacking basic math skills to know how inexpensive DIY is.

Do some e-liquid vendors over-charge? absolutely. However, there are HUNDREDS of great e-liquid vendors, charging right around 50cents per 1mL, or cheaper, that make fantastic juice. For him to own a business, plug it, and then pull some arbitrary number , like 90% of all e-liquid vendors are rip offs out of his butt is insulting to ALL of us.

Sorry bud, I would never order from you.

 

[Whiskey]

Steps in.....looks around....notices date of 2nd to last post.......steps back out again

 

[Adam Paseman]

I don't get it. There are plenty of places that sell ejuice at a lot lower than $21 per 30/ml, shit, lower than The prices at YOUR shop. I just got 360 ml for a price of 3.37 per 30ml, so am I to assume YOUR ripping is off too?

Jesus, you have a graphic design background? Many of these companies put in a lot of effort in design-5 pawns one of them. Having a background in art myself I appreciate this aspect. Also, while the juice I just bought is not bad-it's not as good as a lot of the "premium" juice that ive bought-but i expect that.

Theres also a shit ton of competition. Your in business I guess-can't you understand theres a price set to your product that represents how much your (total) costs are, how much you project to sell, and room for an actual profit. Top this off with many ejuice companies sell to shops-who then have to sell and make money on it. So-they aren't selling at $21 per bottle but prob around $15-which is then marked up to $21, and if you want to continue a relationship with your dealerbase then you can't sell it direct to public on your website for that $15 because then nobody will stock your product.

Anyways, i feel your off base eith your statements and feel it was merely an attempt to market yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MyMagicMist]

If you called someone that has little money "lower class" in my presence.....I would feed you my fist. I am a Franciscan and a street minister and a pacifist...this means you really fucked me off with that comment.

Did not realize that of you. Interesting to note.

 

[MyMagicMist]

If you vape modestly, $50 in juice can last you 2 weeks EASILY.

I vape modestly & 240 ml of juice can last me 4 months, I was buying that from Mt. Baker Vapor for around $40.00. Looked at that as roughly $10.00 per month. I see your point though one can buy juice enough to last, at affordable costs.

Recently, I have been desiring to cut costs further. I may buy some base from ECX for about $12.00 for 250 ml bottles of unflavored. If I want flavors, can pick up flavors from grocery, or use herbs, veggies, fruits. It is not much to dry stuff and pulverize it for mixing with water or PG as a solution to add flavor. I may vape unflavored if I'm not too concerned, which I'm not.

Either way for me works out. I don't mind roughly $10.00 per month for a flavor & quality juice. Heck, why not support businesses I, well, do business with? If I don't do my bit as a consumer the business goes out of business. Then, I have to find another flavor or two, find reasonable pricing, good service, good shipping. It is a hassle as a consumer to lose a good vendor, ergo, sure it's good to pay a little more to help the vendor.

Understand though, I do have budget constraints myself. This is why I watch the vendors. I try to buy juice within a price range of $0.30 - $0.50 per ml from vendors. If it is a specialty juice, I may stretch and spend $0.65 per ml but that is only as a treat for myself if/when I can do it. Expect me to go more out of this range per ml of juice, sorry I'm lost. I think the range I set is fair. I have found quite a few vendors running juice sells in this range, too. apparently they think it's fair as well.

 

[VinceV1]

1) Producers take risks, have to invest, have to struggle with competition
2) The market will adjust to the right price
3) Most of cies sell very ordinary eliquids, and this is where some will loose their business not having enough taste and or creativity to keep themselves over the water.

 

[briansnapp]

I spend 23 dollars a month on vaping, after my initial up front cost of 65 bucks (which included a 30ml bottle .. My local shop charges 8 bucks for a 15ml bottle.. I buy 2 of those a month plus 2 coils for my tank.. I'm spending roughly 60% less than I did smoking cigarettes.. I'd say it's a win