CLOSED- Debate Invitation to ECF Troublemakers

[pcrdude]

My last word.

NO ONE LIKES INFORMERS !. They're are dirty filthy rat bastards.

The fact that the majority of members are American is no fault of mine.

But to complain about action which is taken in light of information given by informers is the work of a complete cretin. Who should really just go and complain someplace else. Such as this festering cesspit.

Place is like a fucking nut house. Just the way you like it.

One consolation is that your attitude reflected in your responses was exactly as i expected.

Hope you all continue to enjoy wiping your own shit all over the walls of the vaping underground.

Sincerely,
Michael.

There is some serious mental and emotional pathology evident in this post....

Michael, I encourage you to seek professional help. They have these cool white coats with funny sleeves....

 

[SteveS45]

There is some serious mental and emotional pathology evident in this post....

Michael, I encourage you to seek professional help. They have these cool white coats with funny sleeves....

You think?

 

[pcrdude]

Tut !. Maybe my last word.

More lunacy then. I'm getting rather tired of the dismissive comments. From those who are too weak and pathetic and are far too committed to decisions they've already made and have dug themselves into hole they are now very unlikely to get out of.

Indepth discussions have been taking place on ecf, One discussion i've only read and not really taken part in is solely based on a long term member who i might add is missed by all those who take part in that discussion. Since leaving solely blames the management for the way she has been treated and is disgusted. I personally couldn't give a fuck what you do lady. But there are plenty of ecf members who do. But obviously those who brought to light, certain things you may have said which they didn't like made it known to the management. If you are simply not interested in finding out who those individuals are then you can carry on convincing yourself otherwise. My only reason for even bringing this up in the very first place was to tell you that there are "PLENTY" of efc members who wish you'd come back.

But based on your dismissive comments, now, i couldn't give the slightest fuck !.

The only time you people respond to the topic is not to actually discuss it, but to ask stupid question as to why i'm here asking, where i'm from and a load of other stuff i'd expect to hear in a nut house. Other that that you have avoided the topic completely.

Was the topic i brought up really a subject which you folks see fit to attack me for ?. When all i did was relay information about concerns ecf members have to those who have left for reasons they simply made up.

If you'd like to carry on with painting the walls with your own shit then my only response, seeing as my intentions have been made perfectly clear, is that you folks are just a crowd of nutjobs. You belong in a place like this where making piss and shit cocktails and throwing it at the walls are fun.

Just try to remember i was just trying to be diplomatic, and that's all.

I would like to draw this to a close but i fear the crazies aren't mentally prepared for that. Also given the fact that have already destroyed any chance for a civil discussion about it. You can't throw shit at me for hours on end and then decide to start talking to me in a civil way about the reasons i came here in the first place and expect me to talk to you like everything is ok.

You people really are fucking crazy !. Thats not an insult, it's an observation.

And let me guess. You will respond with more off topic insults, just like you did from the start. Not that that bothers me, but for the simple fact that you choose to completely overlook the topic.

And not one of you have made any attemt to discuss the topic sensibly.
You're totally off the fucking reservation.
Think about how fucking crazy you are though can you. From the start i might add.

(WEIRDOS)

Bit late for you to start trying to talk about now don't you think.

So just go and royally fuck yourselves.

Thanks for your time.

Tut.



(What a waste of fucking time)

Ok, now I'm really worried. Please post your address so I can send the guys "strait" to you!!!

 

[haleysdadda]

You think?

@SteveS45 That's my theme song! Thanx for posting!

 

[SteveS45]

@SteveS45 That's my theme song! Thanx for posting!

No problem Buddy!

Thanks for all the likes.

 

[John Q Public]

I'm getting rather tired of the dismissive comments.
blah blah whatever blah.

tl;dr

 

[Whiskey]

My last word.

NO ONE LIKES INFORMERS !. They're are dirty filthy rat bastards.

The fact that the majority of members are American is no fault of mine.

But to complain about action which is taken in light of information given by informers is the work of a complete cretin. Who should really just go and complain someplace else. Such as this festering cesspit.

Place is like a fucking nut house. Just the way you like it.

One consolation is that your attitude reflected in your responses was exactly as i expected.

Hope you all continue to enjoy wiping your own shit all over the walls of the vaping underground.

Sincerely,
Michael.

Just because

 

[Whiskey]

Tut !. Maybe my last word.

More lunacy then. I'm getting rather tired of the dismissive comments. From those who are too weak and pathetic and are far too committed to decisions they've already made and have dug themselves into hole they are now very unlikely to get out of.

Indepth discussions have been taking place on ecf, One discussion i've only read and not really taken part in is solely based on a long term member who i might add is missed by all those who take part in that discussion. Since leaving solely blames the management for the way she has been treated and is disgusted. I personally couldn't give a fuck what you do lady. But there are plenty of ecf members who do. But obviously those who brought to light, certain things you may have said which they didn't like made it known to the management. If you are simply not interested in finding out who those individuals are then you can carry on convincing yourself otherwise. My only reason for even bringing this up in the very first place was to tell you that there are "PLENTY" of efc members who wish you'd come back.

But based on your dismissive comments, now, i couldn't give the slightest fuck !.

The only time you people respond to the topic is not to actually discuss it, but to ask stupid question as to why i'm here asking, where i'm from and a load of other stuff i'd expect to hear in a nut house. Other that that you have avoided the topic completely.

Was the topic i brought up really a subject which you folks see fit to attack me for ?. When all i did was relay information about concerns ecf members have to those who have left for reasons they simply made up.

If you'd like to carry on with painting the walls with your own shit then my only response, seeing as my intentions have been made perfectly clear, is that you folks are just a crowd of nutjobs. You belong in a place like this where making piss and shit cocktails and throwing it at the walls are fun.

Just try to remember i was just trying to be diplomatic, and that's all.

I would like to draw this to a close but i fear the crazies aren't mentally prepared for that. Also given the fact that have already destroyed any chance for a civil discussion about it. You can't throw shit at me for hours on end and then decide to start talking to me in a civil way about the reasons i came here in the first place and expect me to talk to you like everything is ok.

You people really are fucking crazy !. Thats not an insult, it's an observation.

And let me guess. You will respond with more off topic insults, just like you did from the start. Not that that bothers me, but for the simple fact that you choose to completely overlook the topic.

And not one of you have made any attemt to discuss the topic sensibly.
You're totally off the fucking reservation.
Think about how fucking crazy you are though can you. From the start i might add.

(WEIRDOS)

Bit late for you to start trying to talk about now don't you think.

So just go and royally fuck yourselves.

Thanks for your time.

Tut.



(What a waste of fucking time)

Just because

 

[haleysdadda]

No problem Buddy!

Thanks for all the likes.

Thank you also!

 

[SteveS45]

Thank you also!

I'll join and we can dance on Retarded1's face! I was gonna say a hole in the dirt but someone might get offended...........

 

[haleysdadda]

I'll join and we can dance on Retarded1's face! I was gonna say a hole in the dirt but someone might get offended...........

But I am not caring about offending anyone Newton Crosby! LOL!

 

[chopdoc]

Tut !. Maybe my last word.

More lunacy then. I'm getting rather tired of the dismissive comments. From those who are too weak and pathetic and are far too committed to decisions they've already made and have dug themselves into hole they are now very unlikely to get out of.

Indepth discussions have been taking place on ecf, One discussion i've only read and not really taken part in is solely based on a long term member who i might add is missed by all those who take part in that discussion. Since leaving solely blames the management for the way she has been treated and is disgusted. I personally couldn't give a fuck what you do lady. But there are plenty of ecf members who do. But obviously those who brought to light, certain things you may have said which they didn't like made it known to the management. If you are simply not interested in finding out who those individuals are then you can carry on convincing yourself otherwise. My only reason for even bringing this up in the very first place was to tell you that there are "PLENTY" of efc members who wish you'd come back.

But based on your dismissive comments, now, i couldn't give the slightest fuck !.

The only time you people respond to the topic is not to actually discuss it, but to ask stupid question as to why i'm here asking, where i'm from and a load of other stuff i'd expect to hear in a nut house. Other that that you have avoided the topic completely.

Was the topic i brought up really a subject which you folks see fit to attack me for ?. When all i did was relay information about concerns ecf members have to those who have left for reasons they simply made up.

If you'd like to carry on with painting the walls with your own shit then my only response, seeing as my intentions have been made perfectly clear, is that you folks are just a crowd of nutjobs. You belong in a place like this where making piss and shit cocktails and throwing it at the walls are fun.

Just try to remember i was just trying to be diplomatic, and that's all.

I would like to draw this to a close but i fear the crazies aren't mentally prepared for that. Also given the fact that have already destroyed any chance for a civil discussion about it. You can't throw shit at me for hours on end and then decide to start talking to me in a civil way about the reasons i came here in the first place and expect me to talk to you like everything is ok.

You people really are fucking crazy !. Thats not an insult, it's an observation.

And let me guess. You will respond with more off topic insults, just like you did from the start. Not that that bothers me, but for the simple fact that you choose to completely overlook the topic.

And not one of you have made any attemt to discuss the topic sensibly.
You're totally off the fucking reservation.
Think about how fucking crazy you are though can you. From the start i might add.

(WEIRDOS)

Bit late for you to start trying to talk about now don't you think.

So just go and royally fuck yourselves.

Thanks for your time.

Tut.



(What a waste of fucking time)

Everything you posted has been an utter waste of everyone’s time. You want to operate on the premise that it isnt the moderators fault on ECF, it is the whiners fault. Are you some kind of special stupid or what?
Let me explain this to you as simply as I can. I will even type slow so you can keep up. It doesnt matter one iota how many complain or whine about another. It is the moderators responsibility to look at a person post and in an adult fashion determine if it was within the rules or not. The moderators are not suppose to make shit up as they go, as they have done with both Andria and Roxy, and many others All the crap you have spewed supporting your position is just that, crap.
You think everyone here treated you like an absolute douchebag, well what did you expect when you come here thinking your going to set everyone straight with your flawed logic and insults. You got what you deserved troll. There is no defending the out of control moderation on ECF and blaming it on the complainers does not justify what has happened one bit.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[haleysdadda]

In case you guys didn't know @Taser is Sj's special little chode! From the precieved ire that Sj had you'd think this guy would be better than this! Must be a Brit Pussy against Brit Pussy thing! Welcome to VU your chodiness!

 

[ej1024]

EAT SHIT @Taser


VAPE IT

 

[SteveS45]

In case you guys didn't know @Taser is Sj's special little chode! From the precieved ire that Sj had you'd think this guy would be better than this! Must be a Brit Pussy against Brit Pussy thing! Welcome to VU your chodiness!

Why disrespect pussy? LMAO

 

[haleysdadda]

@Taser couldn't find you a good sign so I found you a good song!

P.S. thought all y'all might think this is appropriate!

 

[AndriaD]

All I have to say about ECF is, if people there want to talk to me, they know where to find me, and quite a few have done so. If the MANAGEMENT there wants me to come back, then all they have to do is fire retarded1, and then I MIGHT consider it. Or I might not, because classless is a real joyless humorless personality-less fuck too. Robin, eh, I can take her or leave her, but I have really enjoyed the lack of her since I've been here. The only mod there with an actual personality and actual brain is SonicDSL.

What whining crybaby tattletales think or say about me, I COULDN'T GIVE ONE SHIT LESS. I learned not to be upset about the opinions of stupid people a LONG time ago.

And to the mods and admin here, I say THANK YOU FOR A TERRIFIC SITE!!! And to the users and members here, I say the same thing, and to the other ECF refugees I say a very special GFY! They know what I mean.

And to the brainless troll, i say /ignore!

Andria

 

[ej1024]

GFY TASER


VAPE IT

 

[SteveS45]

Robin is not all bad as I found out recently but like that old saying about her time of the month I think she has only one good day.........

 

[Vesuvius]

Everything you posted has been an utter waste of everyone’s time. You want to operate on the premise that it isnt the moderators fault on ECF, it is the whiners fault. Are you some kind of special stupid or what?
Let me explain this to you as simply as I can. I will even type slow so you can keep up. It doesnt matter one iota how many complain or whine about another. It is the moderators responsibility to look at a person post and in an adult fashion determine if it was within the rules or not. The moderators are not suppose to make shit up as they go, as they have done with both Andria and Roxy, and many others All the crap you have spewed supporting your position is just that, crap.
You think everyone here treated you like an absolute douchebag, well what did you expect when you come here thinking your going to set everyone straight with your flawed logic and insults. You got what you deserved troll. There is no defending the out of control moderation on ECF and blaming it on the complainers does not justify what has happened one bit.

That would be like blaming the Jews for Hitler

 

[snake94115]

Tut !. Maybe my last word.

More lunacy then. I'm getting rather tired of the dismissive comments. From those who are too weak and pathetic and are far too committed to decisions they've already made and have dug themselves into hole they are now very unlikely to get out of.

Indepth discussions have been taking place on ecf, One discussion i've only read and not really taken part in is solely based on a long term member who i might add is missed by all those who take part in that discussion. Since leaving solely blames the management for the way she has been treated and is disgusted. I personally couldn't give a fuck what you do lady. But there are plenty of ecf members who do. But obviously those who brought to light, certain things you may have said which they didn't like made it known to the management. If you are simply not interested in finding out who those individuals are then you can carry on convincing yourself otherwise. My only reason for even bringing this up in the very first place was to tell you that there are "PLENTY" of efc members who wish you'd come back.

But based on your dismissive comments, now, i couldn't give the slightest fuck !.

The only time you people respond to the topic is not to actually discuss it, but to ask stupid question as to why i'm here asking, where i'm from and a load of other stuff i'd expect to hear in a nut house. Other that that you have avoided the topic completely.

Was the topic i brought up really a subject which you folks see fit to attack me for ?. When all i did was relay information about concerns ecf members have to those who have left for reasons they simply made up.

If you'd like to carry on with painting the walls with your own shit then my only response, seeing as my intentions have been made perfectly clear, is that you folks are just a crowd of nutjobs. You belong in a place like this where making piss and shit cocktails and throwing it at the walls are fun.

Just try to remember i was just trying to be diplomatic, and that's all.

I would like to draw this to a close but i fear the crazies aren't mentally prepared for that. Also given the fact that have already destroyed any chance for a civil discussion about it. You can't throw shit at me for hours on end and then decide to start talking to me in a civil way about the reasons i came here in the first place and expect me to talk to you like everything is ok.

You people really are fucking crazy !. Thats not an insult, it's an observation.

And let me guess. You will respond with more off topic insults, just like you did from the start. Not that that bothers me, but for the simple fact that you choose to completely overlook the topic.

And not one of you have made any attemt to discuss the topic sensibly.
You're totally off the fucking reservation.
Think about how fucking crazy you are though can you. From the start i might add.

(WEIRDOS)

Bit late for you to start trying to talk about now don't you think.

So just go and royally fuck yourselves.

Thanks for your time.

Tut.



(What a waste of fucking time)

Listen closely Mr. Noballs the only person here digging a hole here is you.You fucking eunuch.Now go away.Oh and you're still a fucking lying douche-nozzle and twat-puddle.

 

[snake94115]

Just because

!!!OMG!!!
I so love you right now...Thanks hun.

 

[snake94115]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is such a cool song...Thanks.

 

[snake94115]

@Taser couldn't find you a good sign so I found you a good song!

P.S. thought all y'all might think this is appropriate!

OH THAT REMINDS ME THERE'S THIS 1 TOO.

In my opinion he ain't worth the effort to actually hate

 

[snake94115]

That would be like blaming the Jews for Hitler

Ouch

 

[haleysdadda]

OH THAT REMINDS ME THERE'S THIS 1 TOO.

In my opinion he ain't worth the effort to actually hate

I don't actually hate anyone! And I tend to forget about the ones I really don't like! Just really enjoying poking this troll to see what response I can get out of him!

 

[snake94115]

Just really enjoying poking this troll to see what response I can get out of him!

Ditto

 

[Pipug]

Holy Schmoly......I'm new here and was browsing through the threads. I can really feel the love here....

 

[AndriaD]

Holy Schmoly......I'm new here and was browsing through the threads. I can really feel the love here....

Oh yeah... quite a few seem to love these trolls for their pure entertainment value.

Andria

 

[Untamed Rose]

It appears that UntamedRose did a drive-by. I know of an issue that is dear to her heart, that ruffled her feathers....

Is atheism a logical position? In science, it is impossible to prove a negative, so to have a firm belief that there is no God seems to violate science as we know it.

Pascal's wager notwithstanding....



Rose? Your retort?????

Darling... in science yes it is impossible to prove a negative...BC one can only show actual results, things that Actually Happen. And so far there is no god factor to anything its all Poofed gone ....we got it or at least we have a decent idea of it all.... You're asking the question backward. You're the one leaping logical bounds here... I cant disprove god anymore that your a 6"11 faceless women who lives in my house and is stealing my internet!
I'm waiting for you to prove god.

 

[snake94115]

Darling... in science yes it is impossible to prove a negative...BC one can only show actual results, things that Actually Happen. And so far there is no god factor to anything its all Poofed gone ....we got it or at least we have a decent idea of it all.... You're asking the question backward. You're the one leaping logical bounds here... I cant disprove god anymore that your a 6"11 faceless women who lives in my house and is stealing my internet!
I'm waiting for you to prove god.

I'd like to drive a big rig through the massive whole in your logic.

 

[AndriaD]

I'd like to drive a big rig through the massive whole in your logic.

That one strikes me as one of those that, who cares what other people think? It has to be decided for oneself, and other peoples' opinions are neither helpful nor welcome.

Andria

 

[USMCotaku]

All I have to say about ECF is, if people there want to talk to me, they know where to find me, and quite a few have done so. If the MANAGEMENT there wants me to come back, then all they have to do is fire retarded1, and then I MIGHT consider it. Or I might not, because classless is a real joyless humorless personality-less fuck too. Robin, eh, I can take her or leave her, but I have really enjoyed the lack of her since I've been here. The only mod there with an actual personality and actual brain is SonicDSL.

What whining crybaby tattletales think or say about me, I COULDN'T GIVE ONE SHIT LESS. I learned not to be upset about the opinions of stupid people a LONG time ago.

And to the mods and admin here, I say THANK YOU FOR A TERRIFIC SITE!!! And to the users and members here, I say the same thing, and to the other ECF refugees I say a very special GFY! They know what I mean.

And to the brainless troll, i say /ignore!

Andria

Hey there Andria...long time no see.

 

[AndriaD]

Hey there Andria...long time no see.

Hey USMC!



How's thangs! Great to see you over here on the SANE forum!

Andria

 

[USMCotaku]

Hey USMC!

View attachment 48542

How's thangs! Great to see you over here on the SANE forum!

Andria

I stop by every now and then.....
<---notice the join date
....but, I have too many friends there to abandon ECF completely...it's about the people, not the place. If they ever decide to come over here, well then I would be here a lot more

Never did find out what sent you this way, but was saddened to hear you had problems and left.

So, has your tootle puffing self tried out the Pico mod yet?

 

[AndriaD]

I stop by every now and then.....
<---notice the join date
....but, I have too many friends there to abandon ECF completely...it's about the people, not the place. If they ever decide to come over here, well then I would be here a lot more

Never did find out what sent you this way, but was saddened to hear you had problems and left.

So, has your tootle puffing self tried out the Pico mod yet?

I don't care for really small mods; they're just too small for my hands -- my kbox mini got broken when I dropped it, so I replaced it with a 2nd iPV Mini, in black -- it's a much better size for my hands.

As for what sent me from ECF, the whole massacree is detailed in this post, if you care to read the details: http://vapingunderground.com/thread...ll-welcome-though.217267/page-29#post-1042166

Andria

 

[haleysdadda]

That one strikes me as one of those that, who cares what other people think? It has to be decided for oneself, and other peoples' opinions are neither helpful nor welcome.

Andria

Huh? you guys lost me with religion & science!

 

[USMCotaku]

I don't care for really small mods; they're just too small for my hands -- my kbox mini got broken when I dropped it, so I replaced it with a 2nd iPV Mini, in black -- it's a much better size for my hands.

As for what sent me from ECF, the whole massacree is detailed in this post, if you care to read the details: http://vapingunderground.com/thread...ll-welcome-though.217267/page-29#post-1042166

Andria

I hated the TC on it...but one of the easiest mods to hold and fire I have ever tried was the Target. The tank it comes with...meh (though I personally like the coils for the tank...just use them in OTHER tanks).

And how DARE you use the word herbs in a post? don't you know better?

 

[pcrdude]

Darling... in science yes it is impossible to prove a negative...BC one can only show actual results, things that Actually Happen. And so far there is no god factor to anything its all Poofed gone ....we got it or at least we have a decent idea of it all.... You're asking the question backward. You're the one leaping logical bounds here... I cant disprove god anymore that your a 6"11 faceless women who lives in my house and is stealing my internet!
I'm waiting for you to prove god.

But YOU have it backwards with your false dichotomy. It's about a teakettle orbiting the sun. Look it up.

 

[AndriaD]

I hated the TC on it...but one of the easiest mods to hold and fire I have ever tried was the Target. The tank it comes with...meh (though I personally like the coils for the tank...just use them in OTHER tanks).

And how DARE you use the word herbs in a post? don't you know better?

What I NOW know better is to ever post again on that forum, while he (and also classless) are moderators there. I don't expect they'll ever get fired, so I guess I'm permanently gone. The others never gave me much trouble; got a few rule reminders from Robin, but at least she HAS a personality and sense of humor, which is a great deal more than can be said for the other 2.

Andria

 

[Untamed Rose]

Worked in the 1800s not now... if a tea pot was orbiting the sun we do have the technology to potentially find it..very slim but is possible.

Besides from Russell... “I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely.”

But YOU have it backwards with your false dichotomy. It's about a teakettle orbiting the sun. Look it up.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Worked in the 1800s not now... if a tea pot was orbiting the sun we do have the technology to potentially find it..very slim but is possible.

Besides from Russell... “I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely.”

I see PCR has yet to start a thread on this, choosing instead to bring it up here.

The central flaw in his criticism of atheists is that he insists they reject the possibility that a god(s) may exist. He's trying to apply an absolute position to them that they don't hold. This is the same stupid argument that he couldn't make fly at ECF and which failure eventually led him to run away, ask for his account to be closed and then come here to complain about how he was treated unfairly.

Weak.

 

[AndriaD]

I see PCR has yet to start a thread on this, choosing instead to bring it up here.

The central flaw in his criticism of atheists is that he insists they reject the possibility that a god(s) may exist. He's trying to apply an absolute position to them that they don't hold. This is the same stupid argument that he couldn't make fly at ECF and which failure eventually led him to run away, ask for his account to be closed and then come here to complain about how he was treated unfairly.

Weak.

I thought that those who believe there is some god but profess no knowledge or understanding of what that godhead may entail are called agnostics? Atheists OTOH are those who believe nothing woo-woo at all, they're strictly materialists.

Andria

 

[Surf Monkey]

I thought that those who believe there is some god but profess no knowledge or understanding of what that godhead may entail are called agnostics? Atheists OTOH are those who believe nothing woo-woo at all, they're strictly materialists.

Andria

Common misunderstanding. Agnostics are bet hedging. Atheists are rationalists. Atheists don't believe in any of the possible gods so far advanced because there is no EVIDENCE to support their existence. Should EVIDENCE arise then we atheists would change our assessment. Because evidence. But in the absence of evidence there is no reason at the moment to conclude that god(s) exist.

 

[Pipug]

I thought that those who believe there is some god but profess no knowledge or understanding of what that godhead may entail are called agnostics? Atheists OTOH are those who believe nothing woo-woo at all, they're strictly materialists.

Andria

I think atheists just do not believe in a god without proof. Agnostics are unsure. I think it's a fine line. You cannot prove a negative, so an atheist does not say there is NO god. They simply do not BELIEVE there is one (or many). JMHO.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I think atheists just do not believe in a god without proof. Agnostics are unsure. I think it's a fine line. You cannot prove a negative, so an atheist does not say there is NO god. They simply do not BELIEVE there is one (or many). JMHO.

This.

PCR's other problem here is that he confuses these two sentences:

"I don't believe in god(s)."

"I beleve there is no god(s)."

Subtle, but VERY different.

 

[Pipug]

This.

PCR's other problem here is that he confuses these two sentences:

"I don't believe in god(s)."

"I beleve there is no god(s)."

Subtle, but VERY different.

Yes, my point exactly. It is subtle but actually quite different. I think people get that confused all the time, no matter how many times one tries to explain it. Put simply, I do not believe there is a god because I have no evidence of such.

 

[AndriaD]

Well.. I'll probably get flamed horribly, but here goes. I don't believe in a *personal* God; I think whatever It is has got much better things to do than be my lost and found dept. This means I'm not a Christian, and I don't go around professing to know the "will of god", because quite frankly, human understanding is just too limited to understand anything of the sort.

That said... I don't think the concept of God is something which is subject to rational understanding -- just because human understanding is so extremely limited. I think prayer may be a valid concept, in the way that wishing and magic may be valid concepts -- you know, stranger things have happened, Horatio. But, if there's something I really want... I'll do a lot more than merely "pray for it" -- I'll do whatever is in my power to make it happen -- pray to god (whatever It is), AND tie up my camel, as it were. And people who go around praying for others are on dangerous ground, karmically speaking, unless they're merely praying for someone to get what they need; to me it's sort of a circular concept -- you always get what you need, and you always need whatever it is you get.

My open-ended semi-halfassed-understanding of this subject also means that I don't expect anyone else to believe as I do, nor would I ever try to convince them, and god forbid (ar ar ar) I should ever "pray" for it. I try to find Truth wherever it may be found, but just because I can see something, doesn't mean that others do, or ever will. That's their problem; I've got my own!

I'm not a leader; don't follow me, I may be lost. I'm not a follower either, because everyone else is just as lost as I am. Now we see thru a glass darkly and all that, Horatio.

Andria

 

[Surf Monkey]

Well.. I'll probably get flamed horribly, but here goes. I don't believe in a *personal* God; I think whatever It is has got much better things to do than be my lost and found dept. This means I'm not a Christian, and I don't go around professing to know the "will of god", because quite frankly, human understanding is just too limited to understand anything of the sort.

That said... I don't think the concept of God is something which is subject to rational understanding -- just because human understanding is so extremely limited. I think prayer may be a valid concept, in the way that wishing and magic may be valid concepts -- you know, stranger things have happened, Horatio. But, if there's something I really want... I'll do a lot more than merely "pray for it" -- I'll do whatever is in my power to make it happen -- pray to god (whatever It is), AND tie up my camel, as it were. And people who go around praying for others are on dangerous ground, karmically speaking, unless they're merely praying for someone to get what they need; to me it's sort of a circular concept -- you always get what you need, and you always need whatever it is you get.

My open-ended semi-halfassed-understanding of this subject also means that I don't expect anyone else to believe as I do, nor would I ever try to convince them, and god forbid (ar ar ar) I should ever "pray" for it. I try to find Truth wherever it may be found, but just because I can see something, doesn't mean that others do, or ever will. That's their problem; I've got my own!

I'm not a leader; don't follow me, I may be lost. I'm not a follower either, because everyone else is just as lost as I am. Now we see thru a glass darkly and all that, Horatio.

Andria

Nothing wrong with any of that. The point of contention was PCR claiming that he could render atheism "illogical."