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CLOSED- Debate Invitation to ECF Troublemakers

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USMCotaku

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Most of us will never take issue to someones personal belief (or lack of). What we tend to take issue to, is proselytizing, or telling us how our beliefs (or lack of) are wrong, and how theirs is right. So no Andria....most of us would emphatically NOT flame you for your posted belief.
 
Whiskey

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tumblr_np1o4p2hWd1t95h1uo1_400_zpszxqz8jqv.gif
 
pcrdude

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Surf Monkey said:
This.

PCR's other problem here is that he confuses these two sentences:

"I don't believe in god(s)."

"I beleve there is no god(s)."

Subtle, but VERY different.
Click to expand...

Isn't it true that your lord Dawkins, faced with the scientific idiocy of the traditional definition of atheist? And back on ECF, I cornered you on this exact topic, you got mad, hurled insults, then I got a suspension.

So, do you even understand why theists BELIEVE in what they believe? Why does a deity have to prove anything to a pissant like you?
 
pcrdude

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Untamed Rose said:
Worked in the 1800s not now... if a tea pot was orbiting the sun we do have the technology to potentially find it..very slim but is possible.

Besides from Russell... “I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely.”
Click to expand...

I'm glad you understand the principle.

Do you believe there is no deity?
 
Surf Monkey

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pcrdude said:
Isn't it true that your lord Dawkins, faced with the scientific idiocy of the traditional definition of atheist? And back on ECF, I cornered you on this exact topic, you got mad, hurled insults, then I got a suspension.

So, do you even understand why theists BELIEVE in what they believe? Why does a deity have to prove anything to a pissant like you?
Click to expand...

1) My "lord" Dawkins? What are you basing that third grader smear on? I've never claimed to be a fan of Richard Dawkins.

2) You never cornered me on the subject. You tried to attack a straw man, just like you're doing now. When it didn't work you had a meltdown/hissy fit and took your ball and went home. I didn't insult you, I insulted your argument.

3) What theists believe or don't believe has nothing to do with the subject. It's a red herring.

So. Where are these master debating skills you were crowing about? Do you suppose calling me a "pissant" makes your argument more credible? Because it doesn't.
 
Surf Monkey

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pcrdude said:
I'm glad you understand the principle.

Do you believe there is no deity?
Click to expand...

Notice how he frames the question.

"Do you believe there is no deity."

This illustrates exactly what I said above: he doesn't understand the difference between these two sentences:

"I believe there is no God."

"I don't believe in God."

The conflation of these two VERY different concepts has tripped him up every step of the way. It's in the way he asked the wrong question.

It's not that we believe there's no god. Atheism is not a belief system. It's that there is no evidence of any kind supporting the idea of a god existing.

But this is the whole "trick" he's ham-handedly trying to pull. For his argument to hang together he needs atheism to be a belief too. But it isn't, so the whole lattice-work collapses due to a faulty foundation.
 
haleysdadda

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You know I believe in god but what I think is a joke is religion! See this is kinda personal to be because my sister is a born again Christian & IMHO has lost all sense of reality! It seems to me that religion is MAN'S way of interpreting the bible! They tell you that the Bible is the word of God but it seems to me that the Bible is the word of god as recorded as recorded by man! So in my opinion any time man gets involved in anything it can become skewed with that persons own opinions! If the bible is the word of god how can there be more than one religion? People say that bible stands for Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth! As written 2000+ years ago! In my opinion god would have known we were going to progress beyond the words written so many years ago! See I also believe in creation & evolution both! To make a long story short I believe that the god/no god debate is one that cannot be won or lost because it's not meant to be!:headbang::deadhorse:
 
pcrdude

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Surf Monkey said:
1) My "lord" Dawkins? What are you basing that third grader smear on? I've never claimed to be a fan of Richard Dawkins.

2) You never cornered me on the subject. You tried to attack a straw man, just like you're doing now. When it didn't work you had a meltdown/hissy fit and took your ball and went home. I didn't insult you, I insulted your argument.

3) What theists believe or don't believe has nothing to do with the subject. It's a red herring.

So. Where are these master debating skills you were crowing about? Do you suppose calling me a "pissant" makes your argument more credible? Because it doesn't.
Click to expand...

Red herring, and straw man. Do you even KNOW what you're talking about? How many days did it take for you to find the debate thread???

Sorry smart ass, your position is pretty weak.

Here, pick your flavor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
 
pcrdude

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Surf Monkey said:
Notice how he frames the question.

"Do you believe there is no deity."

This illustrates exactly what I said above: he doesn't understand the difference between these two sentences:

"I believe there is no God."

"I don't believe in God."

The conflation of these two VERY different concepts has tripped him up every step of the way. It's in the way he asked the wrong question.

It's not that we believe there's no god. Atheism is not a belief system. It's that there is no evidence of any kind supporting the idea of a god existing.

But this is the whole "trick" he's ham-handedly trying to pull. For his argument to hang together he needs atheism to be a belief too. But it isn't, so the whole lattice-work collapses due to a faulty foundation.
Click to expand...

Um, actually no. I was VERY clear. And you didn't answer the question. It isn't scientific to claim there is no deity, so I asked you a simple question. You can't prove there isn't, so it IS about belief. And that IS the point!
 
pcrdude

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haleysdadda said:
You know I believe in god but what I think is a joke is religion! See this is kinda personal to be because my sister is a born again Christian & IMHO has lost all sense of reality! It seems to me that religion is MAN'S way of interpreting the bible! They tell you that the Bible is the word of God but it seems to me that the Bible is the word of god as recorded as recorded by man! So in my opinion any time man gets involved in anything it can become skewed with that persons own opinions! If the bible is the word of god how can there be more than one religion? People say that bible stands for Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth! As written 2000+ years ago! In my opinion god would have known we were going to progress beyond the words written so many years ago! See I also believe in creation & evolution both! To make a long story short I believe that the god/no god debate is one that cannot be won or lost because it's not meant to be!:headbang::deadhorse:
Click to expand...

Excellent position statement!!!!

Simian fetus, can you give it a try?

;)
 
Surf Monkey

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pcrdude said:
Red herring, and straw man. Do you even KNOW what you're talking about? How many days did it take for you to find the debate thread???

Sorry smart ass, your position is pretty weak.

Here, pick your flavor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Click to expand...

That's all you've got? Jesus. Quit your job at the debate society.

(Edited in: and yes, I know the fallacies. Plenty of examples in all of your posts so far.)
 
Surf Monkey

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pcrdude said:
Um, actually no. I was VERY clear. And you didn't answer the question. It isn't scientific to claim there is no deity, so I asked you a simple question. You can't prove there isn't, so it IS about belief. And that IS the point!
Click to expand...

Hey, self-proclaimed genius! Atheists don't claim that there is no deity. They recognize that there's no EVIDENCE supporting it and so don't believe in it. You're still asking a question based on a false premise.
 
pcrdude

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Surf Monkey said:
Hey, self-proclaimed genius! Atheists don't claim that there is no deity. They recognize that there's no EVIDENCE supporting it and so don't believe in it. You're still asking a question based on a false premise.
Click to expand...

Clearly, there are different "levels" of atheism. Just state your level, and I will shred you from there!

;)
 
Surf Monkey

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pcrdude said:
Clearly, there are different "levels" of atheism. Just state your level, and I will shred you from there!

;)
Click to expand...

Debate tip: making up positions and terms to attribute to your opponent and then challenging him or her to defend them is pure straw man building.

Levels of atheism? Not aware of that. If you care to document some kind of scale I'm happy to comment on it.
 
pcrdude

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Surf Monkey said:
Debate tip: making up positions and terms to attribute to your opponent and then challenging him or her to defend them is pure straw man building.

Levels of atheism? Not aware of that. If you care to document some kind of scale I'm happy to comment on it.
Click to expand...

Posted it. Told you about it on ECF. Hammered you on the subject on ECF. Want more?

DEFINE YOUR ATHEISM? Strong, weak, etc. Be a good little monkey-boy, and stop obfuscating.

We are just getting started!

;)
 
Surf Monkey

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pcrdude said:
Posted it. Told you about it on ECF. Hammered you on the subject on ECF. Want more?

DEFINE YOUR ATHEISM? Strong, weak, etc. Be a good little monkey-boy, and stop obfuscating.

We are just getting started!

;)
Click to expand...

Your straw man is on fire.
 
AndriaD

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haleysdadda said:
You know I believe in god but what I think is a joke is religion! See this is kinda personal to be because my sister is a born again Christian & IMHO has lost all sense of reality! It seems to me that religion is MAN'S way of interpreting the bible! They tell you that the Bible is the word of God but it seems to me that the Bible is the word of god as recorded as recorded by man! So in my opinion any time man gets involved in anything it can become skewed with that persons own opinions! If the bible is the word of god how can there be more than one religion? People say that bible stands for Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth! As written 2000+ years ago! In my opinion god would have known we were going to progress beyond the words written so many years ago! See I also believe in creation & evolution both! To make a long story short I believe that the god/no god debate is one that cannot be won or lost because it's not meant to be!:headbang::deadhorse:
Click to expand...

When anyone ever tries to argue with me by saying things like "It says so in the bible!" my response is usually, "And god wrote that himself with a finger of fire, did he?" :rolleyes:

The interference of man is precisely why I do not believe in any religion at all -- because HUMAN INTELLIGENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND GOD!

You know how you're supposed to look at an eclipse, by piercing a tiny hole in a sheet of paper, holding it behind your head/above while you hold another sheet of white paper in front of you? That's a better view of an eclipse than men can ever get of god.

Andria
 
snake94115

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AndriaD said:
That one strikes me as one of those that, who cares what other people think? It has to be decided for oneself, and other peoples' opinions are neither helpful nor welcome.

Andria
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I don't care if she believes in anything or not,that isn't the issue.As far as I'm concerned they could believe anything they want.My only problem was the logic that was used.In defending said belief.

Example : Lets say Sam believes in UFO's - Reason = Stargate
 
snake94115

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Untamed Rose said:
Worked in the 1800s not now... if a tea pot was orbiting the sun we do have the technology to potentially find it..very slim but is possible.
Click to expand...
Most satellites in Earth's orbit are pointed toward Earth not into space.Of the few that are pointed toward space they could only scan about 0.3% of space.You could potentially hide an asteroid the size of Africa in that amount of space.
 
haleysdadda

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AndriaD said:
When anyone ever tries to argue with me by saying things like "It says so in the bible!" my response is usually, "And god wrote that himself with a finger of fire, did he?" :rolleyes:

The interference of man is precisely why I do not believe in any religion at all -- because HUMAN INTELLIGENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND GOD!

You know how you're supposed to look at an eclipse, by piercing a tiny hole in a sheet of paper, holding it behind your head/above while you hold another sheet of white paper in front of you? That's a better view of an eclipse than men can ever get of god.

Andria
Click to expand...
:blowkiss::inlove:
 
snake94115

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AndriaD said:
Well.. I'll probably get flamed horribly, but here goes. I don't believe in a *personal* God; I think whatever It is has got much better things to do than be my lost and found dept. This means I'm not a Christian, and I don't go around professing to know the "will of god", because quite frankly, human understanding is just too limited to understand anything of the sort.

That said... I don't think the concept of God is something which is subject to rational understanding -- just because human understanding is so extremely limited. I think prayer may be a valid concept, in the way that wishing and magic may be valid concepts -- you know, stranger things have happened, Horatio. ;) But, if there's something I really want... I'll do a lot more than merely "pray for it" -- I'll do whatever is in my power to make it happen -- pray to god (whatever It is), AND tie up my camel, as it were. And people who go around praying for others are on dangerous ground, karmically speaking, unless they're merely praying for someone to get what they need; to me it's sort of a circular concept -- you always get what you need, and you always need whatever it is you get.

My open-ended semi-halfassed-understanding of this subject also means that I don't expect anyone else to believe as I do, nor would I ever try to convince them, and god forbid (ar ar ar) I should ever "pray" for it. I try to find Truth wherever it may be found, but just because I can see something, doesn't mean that others do, or ever will. That's their problem; I've got my own! :)

I'm not a leader; don't follow me, I may be lost. I'm not a follower either, because everyone else is just as lost as I am. Now we see thru a glass darkly and all that, Horatio. ;)

Andria
Click to expand...
^^^Yep that^^^
Beer or Coffee anytime on me.
 
snake94115

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AndriaD said:
Umm... Twinings Black Tea? ;) That's the only "brew" I consume. :D

Andria
Click to expand...
I think I got some in the pantry not sure it's good it's been in there a while.
Maybe get you something similar from (Imperial Tea Court) next time I'm at the Ferry Building...Cheers!
 
Surf Monkey

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snake94115 said:
Close...True Atheists don't believe in God/Gods at all.
People that believe in nothing have a different category...(Nihilist)
Click to expand...

The argument being advanced is that atheists are believers too. That they believe there is no God. Of course that's a false assertion since atheism is not a belief system. It's the rejection of belief. "I don't believe in God" isn't the same as "I believe there is no God." First one is the atheist perspective. Second one is what PCR wants to argue.
 
ej1024

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ATHEIST BELIEVE THAT THAT THE CREATOR DOESN'T EXIST
THEY AINT ATHEIST
THEY FULL OF SHIT


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
snake94115

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Surf Monkey said:
The argument being advanced is that atheists are believers too. That they believe there is no God. Of course that's a false assertion since atheism is not a belief system. It's the rejection of belief. "I don't believe in God" isn't the same as "I believe there is no God." First one is the atheist perspective. Second one is what PCR wants to argue.
Click to expand...
Yes I understand that.
PCR is trying to dance around the issue of his own doctrine.I guess he forgot there's a huge Online Atheist Community chock full of actual facts of what they believe and why.
 
Untamed Rose

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snake94115 said:
Most satellites in Earth's orbit are pointed toward Earth not into space.Of the few that are pointed toward space they could only scan about 0.3% of space.You could potentially hide an asteroid the size of Africa in that amount of space.
Click to expand...

Bah messin up my analogy with tech bs stuff....look I'm thinking that when they had nothing but horses and carriages. Getting from DC to NY in 4 hours would be impossible total cant do....and it still is b/c of traffic. So would be the tech to scan outer space to when this teapot orbiting was created we Could both get to DC and find a tea pot today.

Either way....the burden of proof is still in the lap of the person making the extraordinary claim be it a tea pot or god..let alone a specific myth one.

I mean there is a much evidence for god as there is dragons and fairies.... guess what I'm more disappointed in.
 
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