Eleaf iStick ... compact 20w box mod

[aldenf]

What people fail to understand is the limitations of the voltmeter. I have yet to see a DC Voltmeter under $500 capable of reading in Vrms (Vrms in AC is fairly common). This is why we simply use $100 USB Oscilloscopes. The meter he uses is a $40 Home Depot meter, obviously capable of reading a PWM signal. If I'm reading the meter's manual correctly, it is reading in Vavg (volts average). Furthermore, there is nothing on the display showing metered or entered duty cycle which is necessary for measuring Vrms. This practically proves my suspicions. I can't wait til mine is shipped and I can get it on my scope...

The fact that Eleaf and Joyetech are playing this silly game raises serious questions of their integrity. They could have just as easily put it on an oscilloscope and settled this once and for all.

On further thought... While the iStick's display matches the meter's Volt reading (in volts average), the displayed Watts are not even remotely accurate until the device fires at maximum voltage (and maybe not even then). Why would Joyetech open itself up to a possible class-action lawsuit?

 

[Tripster]

What people fail to understand is the limitations of the voltmeter. I have yet to see a DC Voltmeter under $500 capable of reading in Vrms (Vrms in AC is fairly common). This is why we simply use $100 USB Oscilloscopes. The meter he uses is a $40 Home Depot meter, obviously capable of reading a PWM signal. I can't a find a manual for it online. For many reasons, my gut tells me it is reading in Vavg (volts average). For one thing, there is nothing on the display showing metered or entered duty cycle which is necessary for measuring Vrms. This only strengthens my suspicions. I can't wait til mine is shipped and I can get it on my scope...

The fact that Eleaf and Joyetech are playing this silly game raises serious questions of their integrity. They could have just as easily put it on an oscilloscope and settled this once and for all.

Either way, the price is right and when in doubt...warranty claim. I am curious to see the conclusion nonetheless.

 

[moecat]

At what setting though?

For me: 4.5v, 1.8 ohms (11.1 watts)

 

[aldenf]

For me: 4.5v, 1.8 ohms (11.1 watts)

If it turns out that the iStick IS outputting volts average, you're coil is actually firing at 14.6W. Just sayin'...

 

[tombaker]

Would it be fair to say?:

1. This is a great little Zmax like device (33hz rattlesnake).
2. It is Not a little Provari, or MVP like device with clean flat output to the coils.

 

[aldenf]

Would it be fair to say?:

1. This is a great little Zmax like device (33hz rattlesnake).
2. It is Not a little Provari, or MVP like device with clean flat output to the coils.

1. The Watt setting shown on it's display is completely inaccurate.
2. The voltage shown on the display does not allow you to use Ohm's Law to determine the Watts. Use: (V²/R) * duty cycle.

In other words, this is best used as a variable voltage APV, vaping by feel/taste. I would only recommend this unit to experienced vapers who understand it's limitations. If you fully understand the limitations, it could be a stellar device.

 

[moecat]

If it turns out that the iStick IS outputting volts average, you're coil is actually firing at 14.6W. Just sayin'...

I've tried to go 12, 13, 14 watts on my Nautilus with the Hana clone, and it just didn't cut it for me - too much of that burnt, chemical taste. My personal preferred max wattage for me is at 11 or 11.1 for the Nautilus. The fact that I'm comfortably vaping the iStick at 11.1 watts suggests to me that my particular device is functioning just fine.

 

[Mommay]

Either way, the price is right and when in doubt...warranty claim. I am curious to see the conclusion nonetheless.

I noticed in the enclosed Eleaf literature that came with my iStick "Our warranty is not available for products purchased from third-party vendors."

Does this mean that buying anywhere except Eleaf gives no warranty recourse?

 

[BrutusGM]

I made my order with Avid Vaper as well and it came in today(Pretty quick, ordered after business hours Tue. got it on Fri.). Definitely something to use with the Aspire BVC. My Nautilus with the BVC is a great match!! I did try it with a couple of my Aspire BDC tanks with it and a couple of the more delicate juices definitely gets the singed taste even at volts just below 4 so I do believe this initial release of the istick is best used by a smaller group of users with equipment that can handle a stronger jolt of power.. If I kept the volts 3.5 or lower taste if fine just not the biggest vapor production. I have never really gone on the watts wagon. I mainly keep to setting volts and find what is best experience for the head and juice at the time. Once I go through the last of my Aspire BDC heads I am going to start up the BVC coils in the BDC tanks and I will try to update how those go.In the mean time this little gem is going to be the new home for my Nautilus

Maybe for giggles I will get out my iClear 30 and see how that reacts to this enigma..

 

[kelli]

ok got my e-sticks today and they both vape like champs. love 'em. only thing i notice is i don't have to have them turned up as high as my MVP2. on my MVP, i vape mini-vivi novas with 1.8 bvc's at about 9-9.5 watts. the e-stick is more than enough at 8 watts. does that mean one of them is not accurate, or is the i-stick just more efficient? i have no clue.

 

[moecat]

ok got my e-sticks today and they both vape like champs. love 'em. only thing i notice is i don't have to have them turned up as high as my MVP2. on my MVP, i vape mini-vivi novas with 1.8 bvc's at about 9-9.5 watts. the e-stick is more than enough at 8 watts. does that mean one of them is not accurate, or is the i-stick just more efficient? i have no clue.

Seems like you got the ones that have been discussed earlier to fire at higher than expected voltages.

 

[vapingunited]

Good battery life for such a small device. Could be the new "go to" device for that "step-up" buyer as an alternative to the MVP...(still love the MVP though)

 

[kelli]

Seems like you got the ones that have been discussed earlier to fire at higher than expected voltages.

really doesn't concern me, just so it doesn't blow my face off.

 

[tombaker]

Good battery life for such a small device. Could be the new "go to" device for that "step-up" buyer as an alternative to the MVP...(still love the MVP though)

someone on reddit has a picture of the guts, where it is an 18650 inside, soldered on wires

 

[Whiskey]

someone on reddit has a picture of the guts, where it is an 18650 inside, soldered on wires

Link?

 

[aldenf]

ok got my e-sticks today and they both vape like champs. love 'em. only thing i notice is i don't have to have them turned up as high as my MVP2. on my MVP, i vape mini-vivi novas with 1.8 bvc's at about 9-9.5 watts. the e-stick is more than enough at 8 watts. does that mean one of them is not accurate, or is the i-stick just more efficient? i have no clue.

If the iStick is firing in average volts, when the display reads 8W, it's actually firing 12.3W...

 

[aldenf]

Seems like you got the ones that have been discussed earlier to fire at higher than expected voltages.

I'm beginning to wonder if there's a bigger problem with QC or if two different versions of the iStick have escaped the manufacturer...

 

[moecat]

someone on reddit has a picture of the guts, where it is an 18650 inside, soldered on wires

Link?

Not seeing a pic, but here's the discussion ... http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_...got_my_girlfriend_the_new_eleaf_istick_it_is/

Here's a pic from a different forum ... http://ukvapers.org/Thread-Eleaf-istick?page=18

 

[moecat]

Eleaf crowd-sourcing for iStick improvements?
http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_.../were_working_on_the_istick_20_what_features/

They also say that the claims of the device being unable to step down voltage is false

 

[Whiskey]

Thanks Moe!

 

[UncleRJ]

Who would have thought.

Such a small and inexpensive device would be the subject of so many discussions?

 

[moecat]

I'm beginning to wonder if there's a bigger problem with QC or if two different versions of the iStick have escaped the manufacturer...

Agreed.

 

[Tripster]

All I know is that I will be treating my iStick as a disposable, patiently waiting for it.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Mine (wifes) came in today

 

[cherrycakes]

So someone bought it just to tear it apart???!

 

[Lefty]

Someone fairly confident in their ability to re-assemble it disassembled it, sure. Happens all the time with tech stuff like phones, tablets etc.. Vape gear's no different. Not like it's very expensive if it doesn't go well.

 

[richardrpsgt]

It's nice to know that it's a standard battery inside so it can be replaced if need be.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[TheWestPole]

Who would have thought.

Such a small and inexpensive device would be the subject of so many discussions?

I don't have one but I'm glad there's so much interest. Smaller is better. Is it possible that we are finally starting to turn a bit from escalating horsepower to renewed concentration on handling? Count me in.

 

[TheWestPole]

So someone bought it just to tear it apart???!

Of course. Way to go!

 

[kelli]

I don't have one but I'm glad there's so much interest. Smaller is better. Is it possible that we are finally starting to turn a bit from escalating horsepower to renewed concentration on handling? Count me in.

indeed. i have smallish hands and even tho i love my MVP2's, they are a bit bulky for me. this i-stick fits my hand perfectly and i also like where the button is located. i think i am gonna love this little thing.

p.s. i can see where it might not be "manly" enough for some of you brutes.

 

[TheWestPole]

indeed. i have smallish hands and even tho i love my MVP2's, they are a bit bulky for me. this i-stick fits my hand perfectly and i also like where the button is located. i think i am gonna love this little thing.

p.s. i can see where it might not be "manly" enough for some of you brutes.

I suppose I'm indifferent to my month-old MPV2. Too boxy, too tall and too weak. Only thing I like is the ohm check. Gonna sell it, maybe get one of these, maybe not and just stick to building petite mechanicals.

 

[kelli]

I'm indifferent to my month-old MPV2. Too boxy, too tall and too weak. Only thing I like is the ohm check. Gonna sell it, maybe get one of these, maybe not and just stick to building petite mechanicals.

 

[Jovapes]

http://www.jovapes.com/collections/apv-devices/products/eleaf-istick

 

[Midniteoyl]

Well, my wife loves her 'red' (magenta) iStick.. no overheat/burning problems at all on both a Nautilus w/BVC or the AGA T7 I tried.. I will tell you it wont fire below 1ohm though.

 

[richardrpsgt]

I see a lot of people requesting the charger port be moved to the side since you have to lay it sideways to charge it. The obvious solution is a charging cradle.
Im kind of kicking around ideas for materials and embedding or gluing a right angle micro USB cable into the pocket. This would be a good use for a 3d printer.
Also I've noticed it slips right into the pouch I have for my leatherman multi tool, but it's too long to close the pouch with the rank on it.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[BigDaddyQ]

Got mine yesterday and it works great with my aspire nautilus mini tanks. I'm probably going to pick up another one.

 

[richardrpsgt]

I burnt my first coil. Mt baker moo juice at 15 watts on a 1. 6 bvc. It's nice to know limitations

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[kelli]

I burnt my first coil. Mt baker moo juice at 15 watts on a 1. 6 bvc. It's nice to know limitations

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

yikes, 15 watts? my sweet spot is about 8. but then again, i am a wussie.

 

[BigDaddyQ]

I burnt my first coil. Mt baker moo juice at 15 watts on a 1. 6 bvc. It's nice to know limitations

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

I like about 12 to 13.5 max for the 1.6, 15 watts for the 1.8 BVC coils.

 

[kelli]

you guys are brutes!

 

[BigDaddyQ]

Brutes? lol

 

[richardrpsgt]

yikes, 15 watts? my sweet spot is about 8. but then again, i am a wussie.

Lol yeah I figure the only way to find out what more is like is to try more. You need to find out what too much is to find out what is enough.
I didn't care much for the moo juice even though its very popular and I was hoping more power would bring out something I was missing. Blech. Hawk sauce for life!

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[misswish]

I have been drooling over these, so petite! Love my mvp2's but they hurt my hands after a while. Sweet hubby said to order a shiny for my birthday! I now have a blue one on the way, here maybe on Thursday. He knows me so well!

 

[kelli]

I have been drooling over these, so petite! Love my mvp2's but they hurt my hands after a while. Sweet hubby said to order a shiny for my birthday! I now have a blue one on the way, here maybe on Thursday. He knows me so well!

yay! you will love it.

 

[Sparks]

It doesn't settle it for me yet... but at the same time, I hope I'm wrong

Say Hermit : I am right now in contact with China Ismoka Eleaf people, they are attempting to explain to me PWM as an elevator ride, this is the 1st email received this morning 10/6 from them and it would be good to have some back on this as you are certainly the ex-plainer in chief when it comes to this, my taste buds have explained enough almost instantly and way back in this post, I'm thinking their might even be different chips, some good some bad, this is their email this AM, Here it seems she's trying to explain PWM to me.. OK so esensitally she's saying if you scope this device you will get crazy reading and no smooth flat line, spike way up then drop off?? No filtering?
Dear Gary,
Thanks for your email to us and sorry to bring you such inconvenience.
I have checked your problem with our engineers, for the voltage, we use the latest technology in iStick.
When you turn down the voltage, the normal battery can drop voltage directly.
While in iStick, the battery will increase the voltage firstly then drop it in order to make a more steady output.
Put simply, when you take a lift on eighth floor , you can go down to sixth floor directly(like normal battery),
while you should take the lift to 12th floor then down to sixth floor( like iStick) .....That's bullshit but at least admitting it.


Hope this can be help, if any confusion, please tell us freely.

Best wishes
Ivy-Eleaf service

Hermit: I'm holding off on a response to this Ismoka email until I hear from you pal, I get what your saying and fully agree with your analysis but you could easily explain it better... I'll give this a day or so to see if I hear from you.
This is a good opportunity to settle this or???
I'm calling false advertising on them with a request to fix or exchange and I'm sticking with it,
I've got a close to $100 into two of these and not happy, ya I got excited and got played as a mark,
I've got a 1300maH ego that that vapes better than this Istick and basically when you run the battery down to where you can up regulate all you have then is basically a 1300maH battery not 2200maH firing consistently at 4.2v.
Hope to hear from you bro..

 

[Sparks]

For the buzz killed people, honestly this device for me requires a change in vape style, that shouldn't be necessary but that's the only way to vape a hot device like vaping on a mechanical device basically so you vape with higher ohms and even thicker juice.
This device is workable but not at my vape style of 1.5 to 1.8ohm 50/50 juice, fully charged it's damn hot and that's what got this conversation going and really when they say variable volt well my ego does better job than this device, so if you buy with this knowledge in hand your ahead of the game instead of buying two of them like I did and then realized there's a problem. I've got a lot of mods and I noticed the difference almost immediately, the chip set is the only fault with this device other than that it's the coolest for sure, but the chip is a very important part, the DNA20 chip when it came out did exactly the same thing.

 

[Sparks]

Someone fairly confident in their ability to re-assemble it disassembled it, sure. Happens all the time with tech stuff like phones, tablets etc.. Vape gear's no different. Not like it's very expensive if it doesn't go well.

Tore mine apart yesterday, trying to get those stupid buttons back in now, real pain you pull the plastic slips out turn it over and the buttons just fall out, wanted to see if I had a board that I could swap out with the current one. Funny noticed how on one of mine where they torqued the the torx screws in they torqued so hard there's a slight bulge on the edge of the metal, the shiny metal, weird and sloppy actually.

 

[Whiskey]

But....but.....I like mine.....

 

[Sparks]

I see a lot of people requesting the charger port be moved to the side since you have to lay it sideways to charge it. The obvious solution is a charging cradle.
Im kind of kicking around ideas for materials and embedding or gluing a right angle micro USB cable into the pocket. This would be a good use for a 3d printer.
Also I've noticed it slips right into the pouch I have for my leatherman multi tool, but it's too long to close the pouch with the rank on it.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Ya, found on old flip phone case that also works perfect, man this device has everything going for it, just the power issue, Mt Baker is up the street from me and I buy most my juice from them.

 

[aldenf]

Say Hermit : I am right now in contact with China Ismoka Eleaf people, they are attempting to explain to me PWM as an elevator ride, this is the 1st email received this morning 10/6 from them and it would be good to have some back on this as you are certainly the ex-plainer in chief when it comes to this, my taste buds have explained enough almost instantly and way back in this post, I'm thinking their might even be different chips, some good some bad, this is their email this AM, Here it seems she's trying to explain PWM to me.. OK so esensitally she's saying if you scope this device you will get crazy reading and no smooth flat line, spike way up then drop off?? No filtering?
Dear Gary,
Thanks for your email to us and sorry to bring you such inconvenience.
I have checked your problem with our engineers, for the voltage, we use the latest technology in iStick.
When you turn down the voltage, the normal battery can drop voltage directly.
While in iStick, the battery will increase the voltage firstly then drop it in order to make a more steady output.
Put simply, when you take a lift on eighth floor , you can go down to sixth floor directly(like normal battery),
while you should take the lift to 12th floor then down to sixth floor( like iStick) .....That's bullshit but at least admitting it.


Hope this can be help, if any confusion, please tell us freely.

Best wishes
Ivy-Eleaf service

Hermit: I'm holding off on a response to this Ismoka email until I hear from you pal, I get what your saying and fully agree with your analysis but you could easily explain it better... I'll give this a day or so to see if I hear from you.
This is a good opportunity to settle this or???
I'm calling false advertising on them with a request to fix or exchange and I'm sticking with it,
I've got a close to $100 into two of these and not happy, ya I got excited and got played as a mark,
I've got a 1300maH ego that that vapes better than this Istick and basically when you run the battery down to where you can up regulate all you have then is basically a 1300maH battery not 2200maH firing consistently at 4.2v.
Hope to hear from you bro..

Hey Sparks.

With very few exceptions, PWM (pulse-width-modulation) boosts the battery voltage to a set level, usually the device's highest voltage, sometimes a bit higher. Then it pulses that voltage several times per second to obtain the overall voltage that's been set. In the case of the iStick, it apparently boosts voltage to 5.8V. Then it pulses 5.8V 48 times per second (48 Hz). Those 48 pulses per second can be very short or much longer until the output voltage looks constant on test equipment. The percentage of time (per second) that the voltage is on (vs. off) is called it's duty cycle.

The below image shows a device with a peak of 5V firing at 20%, 50% & 75% duty cycles.



Here's where it gets kind of tricky... If we multiply the peak voltage (Vpk) by the duty cycle (C%) we get the average voltage (Vavg, shown above). We know that firing a Vavg of 3.5V into our 1.8Ω coil creates much higher Wattage at the coil than a constant 3.5V.

For example, using the iStick's specs:

Ohm's Law (V²/R=W) tells us that a constant 3.5V into a 1.8Ω coil will give us 6.8W.

W also know a different formula is used to determine Watts from a PWM Vavg signal:
(Vpk²/R) * C% = W or in our case, (5.8²/1.8Ω) * (3.5/5.8) = 11.3W

6.8W vs. 11.3W is a big difference.
We use RMS (root-mean-square) Voltage to obtain the Watts that constant Voltage provides.

It is suspected that the iStick is plugging an Average Voltage (Vavg) into Ohm's Law, rather than an RMS or constant voltage, providing much higher Watts at the coil. If true, it's all about faulty software NOT hardware and could be fixed rather simply and cheaply for future runs. Few people are questioning whether the iStick is firing below native battery Voltage. We know they're using PWM. We're questioning the formula used to set and display the voltage; ie average voltage (Vavg) or RMS voltage (Vrms).

Hope this helps!