Cloudmaker Whiteout dna and sx...... issues?

[Mattp169]

@f1r3b1rd
too much has been said in this thread for me to keep up
i have read over it and all the links posted

At this point Im just trying to help guys like you out who I know and respect on VU who have or may get screwed in this shit

If you feel your in the first batch I would contact them and make sure and if they confirm you wont see your mod till after the 20th is my best guess

They keep saying BY THE END OF THE HOLIDAYS which is like Jan 2nd
SO people in the "first batch still have up to 3 weeks of waiting for their mods then probably another month for the people in the "2nd Batch"

My gut feeling is CMT is actually trying here. They aint doing the greatest job, but they are trying. The only asshats in this is SMOG and possibly that dude Ian who is/was associated with both companies.

CMTs main fault is under estimating their time line for production and not being as upfront about production delays since August.

I dont see then in collusion with SMOG at this point.
Now if say jan 1st comes and goes and there aren't some units shipped by then, then I would suspect that there was some truth to SMOG and CMT colluding

Or if in the next week or so they post more delays saying that customs is holding their parts or there was an error in the production by the factory and they have to redo it all

Then something is really fucked up

 

[f1r3b1rd]

@f1r3b1rd
too much has been said in this thread for me to keep up
i have read over it and all the links posted

At this point Im just trying to help guys like you out who I know and respect on VU who have or may get screwed in this shit


They keep saying BY THE END OF THE HOLIDAYS which is like Jan 2nd
SO people in the "first batch still have up to 3 weeks of waiting for their mods then probably another month for the people in the "2nd Batch"

My gut feeling is CMT is actually trying here. They aint doing the greatest job, but they are trying. The only asshats in this is SMOG and possibly that dude Ian who is/was associated with both companies.

CMTs main fault is under estimating their time line for production and not being as upfront about production delays since August.
Now if say jan 1st comes and goes and there aren't some units shipped by then, then I would suspect that there was some truth to SMOG and CMT colluding

Or if in the next week or so they post more delays saying that customs is holding their parts or there was an error in the production by the factory and they have to redo it all
Then something is really fucked up

I know you're trying to help and I appreciate it.
Im looking ay this through the eyes of an attorney. So reality can get skewed between enforceable, provable and conditional.
I agree, Ian (imho) completely fucked up, they (cmt)claim he is an employee, documents support that. But being part owner of smog leaves much in question for me.
To clarify that portion, he is not on smog paperwork, but it is my understanding that he is/was 'smogjuice' and the plan was for him to go on legal docs after the first of the year.
Keep in mind timetable, no one has said anything about new years. -good luck getting anything out of china. That's another magic delay they can use. So something needs to be enroute before then.

im not in this just for my mod, i am trying to get a clear picture for all involved and make sure anyone that wants it has the information. Plus they can see this im not hiding from them. If the first batch leaves china by the 16th no worries, if not, we have to look after out own right?

 

[Mattp169]

i agree iwth you @f1r3b1rd
I just am looking at this through the eyes of noone with a bone in it. I didnt order one. I was very skeptical of the whole mod. I even raised the question when they posted here about using marketing terms like FUTURE PROOF, cuz that term is just pure BS imho.

I see in this thread and on the links postedin this thread hostility towards CMT

Some of it imho is just not justified.
Be pissed at them for delay after delay after delay. They deserve that
While there is a reason to keep an eye on the SMOG situation no one has given any proof that this SMOG thing will effect CMT at all in terms of delivering a product. But it raises enough concern to pay very close attention to this. Because the conspiracy theorists may be right and this whole thing is a scam or will turn into one

But until then I am hopeful CMT delivers finally
I hope everyone who paid SMOG gets their money back
and I hope that noone will jump the gun on CMT causing more problems or setbacks IF THEY ARE LEGITIMATE
I forsee several things
1 is CMT is never going to deliver and walk away with alot of people's money - if so your info gathering is needed
2. CMT actually delivers - no information gathering needed
3. Information gathering leads to jumping the gun, CMT was trying to deliver but because of people backing out or raising too much ruckus or having the authorities getting involved etc etc etc they can no longer produce and people get screwed because of that.

ANd there are other things we could all forsee.
Most of which - having information ready is perfect and needed. SO I by all means do not discourage you from getting all of it ready. I just hope its not needed or used prematurely

 

[f1r3b1rd]

i agree iwth you @f1r3b1rd
I just am looking at this through the eyes of noone with a bone in it. I didnt order one. I was very skeptical of the whole mod. I even raised the question when they posted here about using marketing terms like FUTURE PROOF, cuz that term is just pure BS imho.

I see in this thread and on the links postedin this thread hostility towards CMT

Some of it imho is just not justified.
Be pissed at them for delay after delay after delay. They deserve that
While there is a reason to keep an eye on the SMOG situation no one has given any proof that this SMOG thing will effect CMT at all in terms of delivering a product. But it raises enough concern to pay very close attention to this. Because the conspiracy theorists may be right and this whole thing is a scam or will turn into one

But until then I am hopeful CMT delivers finally
I hope everyone who paid SMOG gets their money back
and I hope that noone will jump the gun on CMT causing more problems or setbacks IF THEY ARE LEGITIMATE
I forsee several things
1 is CMT is never going to deliver and walk away with alot of people's money - if so your info gathering is needed
2. CMT actually delivers - no information gathering needed
3. Information gathering leads to jumping the gun, CMT was trying to deliver but because of people backing out or raising too much ruckus or having the authorities getting involved etc etc etc they can no longer produce and people get screwed because of that.

ANd there are other things we could all forsee.
Most of which - having information ready is perfect and needed. SO I by all means do not discourage you from getting all of it ready. I just hope its not needed or used prematurely

like i said earlier, i'm a lic. PI in 2 states, imformation gathering, is old hat. lol. its also fun, like doing a puzzle, also like seeing what makes someone tick.

in this case, im gonna call the smog thing, ians problem. he put his own nuts in the vice and in the procss seriouslly called into question cmt's overall position here.

i think its fair to say, that IF this is scam, it has the potential to negtively influence the community as a whom. Ian certain the scam was never an intention

I hope it turns out that I am spinning my wheels and wasting my time. But, like I sid back a few pages, they are not the first company to do this, only the first company to do this on a larger scale. Had the authorities gotten involved earlier shan's victims could have been made whole.

 

[Cloudy Peak Vapes]

I have no interest in this aside from looking out for you all, many of which I've seen around here since the start of VU. Scam or not, I firmly say contact your banks. CMT, good intentions or not, has fucked this up, be it due to smog, innocent belief in being able to deliver, whatever. Who cares. Screen shots and info have been wisely collected. I wouldn't trust these people at all, whatever the intentions. They've had some of your money since September? Fuck that. I'd have called my bank and had my funds in my account by now.

Also, smog, whatever that dudes name who is filing bankruptcy, whatever he's doing, sorry but too bad. I also doubt he can file chapter 7, I'm guessing they require chapter 11, and a repayment plan. Now, it's been mentioned that you can't bleed an empty "source" and he likely has no money, unless he's lying. If he restructures with chapter 11, you won't see money from him for a while if ever, but he will be on the hook, and banks will take care of you all. And having an LLC really doesn't protect you that much. They can still go after you on a personal level at least to an extent. No money is no money, though, but this is a shit show.

My father is an attorney, not his specialty, but the man knows a lot. I'm gonna mention this to him and see what he says. I already briefly did, and he said call your banks now. I'm gonna see what he says regarding bankruptcy etc... for the smog guy. And what he says about CMT and their b.s. Statements. I know he's gonna say these guys are idiots for posting this shit publicly. Simple, because a lawyer doesn't need to tell us they are.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Had some money since July... thank you @TBCAmor

 

[Cloudy Peak Vapes]

Had some money since July... thank you @TBCAmor

Fuck that. All I got... Fuck that. Sorry guys, again, your banks should all take care of you. I'm no PI, but I've spent plenty of time serving papers, and it requires PI skills. When I saw they're registered in Delaware I immediately shook my head. That's the haven for sketchiness and business. Or one of them at least. I'm pretty sure all health insurance companies are registered in Delaware, at least most. That's telling in and of itself.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Fuck that. All I got... Fuck that. Sorry guys, again, your banks should all take care of you. I'm no PI, but I've spent plenty of time serving papers, and it requires PI skills. When I saw they're registered in Delaware I immediately shook my head. That's the haven for sketchiness and business. Or one of them at least. I'm pretty sure all health insurance companies are registered in Delaware, at least most. That's telling in and of itself.

Yup!!! When I saw that the bells went off!!! Delaware is the biggest deadbeat state in the union.

 

[Cloudy Peak Vapes]

Yup!!! When I saw that the bells went off!!! Delaware is the biggest deadbeat state in the union.

Yup. No state taxes if you don't do business there, just a yearly fee. It's why so many profit driven pos companies are there, hence health insurance. I won't get into that, though, lol. That's another thread, and another likely one full of anger, lol.

Really, fuck them. The time for waiting has passed. Good guys, good intentions, who cares at this point, sadly.

 

[Robert B]

All this LLC and incorporating in Delaware or anywhere else, doesn't protect you from being prosecuted for criminal fraud. If a mass "run on the bank" puts them out of business, they have no one to blame but themselves. If it hadn't been a "pay in full" pre-order, rather a waiting list of some sort, it would be an entirely different story.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

All this LLC and incorporating in Delaware or anywhere else, doesn't protect you from being prosecuted for criminal fraud. If a mass "run on the bank" puts them out of business, they have no one to blame but themselves. If it hadn't been a "pay in full" pre-order, rather a waiting list of some sort, it would be an entirely different story.

Actually,it does give some degree of protection.
The corp, is treated as a separate entity. Individual of its principals. However, if criminal activity can be proven, or some other nefarious acts, it will allow for piercing of the corporate veil and protection and the principles can be held personally liable for any business dealings.

Nefarious acts can be construed as a bad check, a check on closed account, comingling of funds or fraud by deceit.

Again, I am not alleging anything, just clarifying the scenario. I have more work to do on info gathering. But, that was what I looked for as an investigator for the firm. First was finding the principals, then finding reason to vacate corporate protection.
I am hoping this whiteout deal works out to be on the up and up

 

[MrScaryZ]

Can someone update me on this ? So whiteout is Whitewashed?
Have they announced this on their website?

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Can someone update me on this ? So whiteout is Whitewashed?
Have they announced this on their website?

Noooooo they are claiming once again that the mods will go out next week.
-we are to believe that the 5th promise is to be kept.
They pretty much told everyone on their subreddit that we are assholes for being negative and hurting there moral. Somehow being mad that a mod promised 5 months ago not being out yet, makes it hard for them to work.
So...being lectured about that from people who have had my money this long made me do some homework.
The first page has links that tell the story.
Basically returnity, claimed to own half of smog, then changed his story. Smog sold 1000 units and then went oob and never paid for the units.
Whiteout still didn't make the units other than 1 that is shown in am empty warehouse in china

That's the abridged version

 

[Robert B]

Actually,it does give some degree of protection.
The corp, is treated as a separate entity. Individual of its principals. However, if criminal activity can be proven, or some other nefarious acts, it will allow for piercing of the corporate veil and protection and the principles can be held personally liable for any business dealings.

Nefarious acts can be construed as a bad check, a check on closed account, comingling of funds or fraud by deceit.

Again, I am not alleging anything, just clarifying the scenario. I have more work to do on info gathering. But, that was what I looked for as an investigator for the firm. First was finding the principals, then finding reason to vacate corporate protection.
I am hoping this whiteout deal works out to be on the up and up

You're right about that. Bernie Madoff was incorporated in Delaware, and look where he is.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Noooooo they are claiming once again that the mods will go out next week.
-we are to believe that the 5th promise is to be kept.
They pretty much told everyone on their subreddit that we are assholes for being negative and hurting there moral. Somehow being mad that a mod promised 5 months ago not being out yet, makes it hard for them to work.
So...being lectured about that from people who have had my money this long made me do some homework.
The first page has links that tell the story.
Basically returnity, claimed to own half of smog, then changed his story. Smog sold 1000 units and then went oob and never paid for the units.
Whiteout still didn't make the units other than 1 that is shown in am empty warehouse in china

That's the abridged version

Yeah I kinda have been watching their webisite I had thought about ordering when you and I talked about it 2 months ago but changed my mind..
well I guess lesson learned one of the reason I no longer do preorders well I did with the DNA 200 sucks anyway

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Yeah I kinda have been watching their webisite I had thought about ordering when you and I talked about it 2 months ago but changed my mind..
well I guess lesson learned one of the reason I no longer do preorders well I did with the DNA 200 sucks anyway

Be glad you changed your mind! At this point im getting my 200$ worth w of it by sheer entertainment c
Value.
Those reddit links posted really tell the whole sordid tale, at least they left the website clean. Everything else is fairly was for most to put together through reddit posts. Granted, I did some extra digging but...

 

[f1r3b1rd]

ok, looks like the individual with a foot in both boats spoke.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cloudmaker...rns_about_smog_distribution_preorders/cxtbwcd

 

[f1r3b1rd]

And smog is still conducting some biz activities....
https://www.reddit.com/r/SmogGB/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SmogGB/comments/3w43v5/all_pending_lenola_orders_clear/

 

[f1r3b1rd]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SmogGB/comments/3vygv1/hi_d00ds/?sort=new
https://www.reddit.com/r/cloudmaker/comments/3w8mg1/just_so_frustrated_at_the_situation/?sort=new

 

[f1r3b1rd]

So the latest in the saga that is cloudmaker

A lot of movement in the last 24hours,,,
As per the following email transaction


Cloudmaker Technologies (Cloudmaker Technologies)

Dec 11, 9:51 AM

Hello,

Here is the latest update that we have given.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cloudmaker/comments/3wdyum/the_wait_is_over_shipping_begins_monday/

The units should be shipping to our warehouse Monday.

`*~Roger~*`
CloudMaker Technologies
Customer Service
Tier Cloudy




*********

Dec 10, 8:37 AM

On December the 17th I will be forwarding all of the public information and printouts of things said in regards to Cloudmaker Technologies inc to the San Francisco Police Department as well as any other authorities.

As a whole this comes under Federal Bureau of Investigation jurisdiction; since, it crosses both state and national borders.

I am in the process of gathering information from multiple known vendors of whiteout sales and correspondence. After the first phone call I have realized that some, will be rather angry and very eager to assist.

I am Contacting you via email as a sign of good faith. I understand that this started out as an idea , a good one; and, one that I myself supported. However, this idea has become a point of stress for many customers, goading us online is not cute, it is insulting. Many of us have been around a while and have been taken for rides from other companies; none were this good. Congratulations, you have exceeded Shannon mods, and Pegasus.

It has to stop and if that means using this experience as an example, so be it.
We as customers gave you the money in good faith that you would uphold your end of the bargain. You have not, that is not a thing that we should be scolded for like children. I have the ability, and knowledge to ensure that none of my other fellow vapors gets taken on a ride and I owe it to my brethren to do just that. Therefore I will.

The last deadline you gave was ‘a few more days' after the 9th, I have given the company another 7; at which time I will turn over what I found. We both know the smog/cmt incest will be enough to piqué their interest, the rest is yet to be seen. The aforementioned condition gives the appearance of either commingling of funds, or freud with intent to deceive.
Additionally in hindsight, nothing was thought out, everything was a game, after the first deadline, there was still no facility. Reading the deadlines, and cross-referencing them with activity, the entire thing reads like a bad novel.
So in closing, my next 5 days will be spent getting all the information organized and compiled. By the 17th I will either be forwarding a group of documents to authorities or discarding them. You should know, I always make my deadlines.

This will be posted on reddit Saturday

**********



Now do I believe that magically everything is going to work out? No
Do I hope it will? yes, of course
Will I stop? no, not until I see actual movement

I am posting everything being done for the simple fact that many of us are in the boat together, some of you have helped, and many have sent messages thanking me for taking these steps.

Thank you all and I reiterate, if they are following through, I will gladly eat crow.

 

[IML8]

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Yeah it has yet to be seen. I really hope that when its all said and done, I am dining on crow and everyone has their mod.
I'm not to proud, and have had every reason for my suspicions.

 

[IML8]

Yeah it has yet to be seen. I really hope that when its all said and done, I am dining on crow and everyone has their mod.
I'm not to proud, and have had every reason for my suspicions.

I'm totally with you. They're big boys. They should be able to handle it. For the record, I've been on both sides of similar situations. One of my corporations had to file Chapter 11 once. It was due to no fault of my own and it was humiliating, but I got through it and learned some valuable lessons. I will never allow myself to get in that sort of situation again. On the other side, I've worked with companies that went under and defaulted. And was never able to collect the money they owed me. I'm very cautious now-a-days, both with my money and with other people's.

 

[Mattp169]

@f1r3b1rd is that an email you sent them or somoeone else

 

[f1r3b1rd]

@f1r3b1rd is that an email you sent them or somoeone else

I sent that to them, the response was that they were shipping monday

 

[Wingsfan0310]

I sent that to them, the response was that they were shipping monday

You might want to remove your name from that email (in the post) my friend. Just looking out for you.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[f1r3b1rd]

You might want to remove your name from that email (in the post) my friend. Just looking out for you.

Cheers,
Steve

Thank you, wasn't thinking...

 

[Zamazam]

Shipping Monday? We shall see.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Shipping Monday? We shall see.

Yeah.. if they think I'm going stop based on only their word they are nuttier than kim jong il

 

[Wingsfan0310]

Yeah.. if they think I'm going stop based on only their word they are nuttier than kim jong il

Whenever I see or hear that name, Dennis Rodman also comes to mind. Birds of a feather and all

Cheers,
Steve

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Whenever I see or hear that name, Dennis Rodman also comes to mind. Birds of a feather and all

Cheers,
Steve

You play basketball in a dress? Lmfao

 

[Mattp169]

it ships from china to the usa on monday is the way i read it

 

[f1r3b1rd]

it ships from china to the usa on monday is the way i read it

That what they are saying,

I hope they do come through. I really do. I just don't trust them after everything that's happened. Ive heard ''the checks in the mail'. So many times,,,

 

[BadLuckAndTrouble]

Man. I really hope shipping starts monday. If so, Im excited for everyone thats actually gonna have a WO in hand soon, and the pics/ reviews incoming.

I still drool over the clear paneled version..

Wish I would have just ordered through CMT and not SD, but I was wanting a first run and low SN.

 

[Robert B]

It's been suggested a few times on reddit and FB that Jeremy post some pictures of the finished mods lined up ready to go out, but he won't do it for some reason. It would literally take him less than a minute to take the pict and post it directly to FB or reddit. Maybe he feels he has nothing to prove, who knows.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

Maybe he feels like 1 mod sitting in an big, empty, nasty looking room sets peoples fears at ease. But seriously, one picture showing all the finished mods would put people at ease. I can't figure out 1 good reason why it hasn't been done. I can guess some not so pleasant reasons why, but I'll keep that to myself.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

That is an interesting point, if it were me, I would be so damn proud just to shut all of 'haters' up I would plaster pics of the mods loaded up all over the damn interwebs.

 

[Robert B]

Yeah it has yet to be seen. I really hope that when its all said and done, I am dining on crow and everyone has their mod.
I'm not to proud, and have had every reason for my suspicions.

Nobody will be eating crow if they deliver. They did this all on their own. I wouldn't blame anyone for being suspicious, especially after the 6 month wait, and hundreds of people getting ripped off by one of their closely aligned distributors. The entire process was unprofessional and amateurish. There is no parsing it any other way.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

There isn't, but still.
I just don't like dumping anyone in this industry in the grease. Like everyone on here, vaping let me quit tobacco and its become a real hobbyart and something i really enjoy.
Guess the other way to see it is when someone tarnishes the hobby and fucks us over somebody has to do something more than just bitch about it.

 

[Mattp169]

do you guys realize the mods are not finished. THE PARTS ARE FINISHED and are IN CHINA
they have to go from china to the USA
get assembled packed and shipped.

Thats why they arent posting pics

 

[Zamazam]

Nobody will be eating crow if they deliver. They did this all on their own. I wouldn't blame anyone for being suspicious, especially after the 6 month wait, and hundreds of people getting ripped off by one of their closely aligned distributors. The entire process was unprofessional and amateurish. There is no parsing it any other way.

What this all comes down to is that the principal's at both companies have no idea how to run a business. Anyone can come up with a good idea, promote it, gain exposure and then take money for development costs. What separates the successful ones from the scummy ones is a business plan and a basic understanding of how to run a business. Going dark and not updating paying customers is a proven method for self destructing your business and creating massive pr nightmares.

When a business places money above their customers, it always ends badly. If you produce an innovative product that is marketed well and is of quality manufacturer, customers will beat your door down. Apple computer nearly committed sepaku in the 1980's when they announced a new computer that took almost a year to deliver. That computer was the first MacIntosh. Previous to Jobs rejoining the company, Apple Computer insisted on full payment for the computers it sold before delivering them. Their record was dismal with customers often waiting 3 months for an Apple computer. Quite a few computer dealers dropped Apple as a product offering because of that policy which led to Apple almost going under.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

do you guys realize the mods are not finished. THE PARTS ARE FINISHED and are IN CHINA
they have to go from china to the USA
get assembled packed and shipped.

Thats why they arent posting pics

Wait whaaaaaaa?????
You shitting me?!?! Goddamnit no one said that it was said that they were going form china so sanfransisco packaged for individual purchases then to customers
Mother fuck me blue, I knew there was some new fucking issue.

 

[Zamazam]

Wait whaaaaaaa?????
You shitting me?!?! Goddamnit no one said that it was said that they were going form china so sanfransisco packaged for individual purchases then to customers
Mother fuck me blue, I knew there was some new fucking issue.

Add to that Christmas holiday delays, then Lunar New year delays. Don't forget the parts might be not to "spec" and will need to be sent back to be fixed.

Seen that before?

 

[Wingsfan0310]

My understanding is that they were to be assembled in China, shipped here to be packaged. Am I wrong??? How can they be saying they aren't shipping here until Monday and will be sent out in time for Christmas if they aren't already assembled. Something doesn't make sense with that timeline if they aren't already assembled.

Cheers,
Steve

Edit @Mattp169 It wouldn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense to fly the parts here and then assemble them as compared to assembling them in China where the parts already are. It would be quite a bit cheaper (labor) to do it in China!

 

[Mattp169]

they might be assembled in china
but i dont know
all i read was they had the parts ready in china
i never saw them say they were assembeld
in fact i swear but am not positive they said they were assembling in the USA

Im not reading back thorugh all that BS to find out which it is.

but its a possibility
and thats the way i remember reading it.

But how long will it take to assemble a unit
20-30 mins they have what a couple hundred coming. depending on how many assemblers thats not long and can ship one after its assembled

so I wouldnt worry if they are assembled here or there.

 

[Angrygod50]

Add to that Christmas holiday delays, then Lunar New year delays. Don't forget the parts might be not to "spec" and will need to be sent back to be fixed.

Seen that before?

Professional shit disturber .... I LOVE IT LOL you are an evil Vulcan.

 

[Zamazam]

LOL, Thanks. I've seen the same kind of situation with previous mods that got delayed. Some were delivered, some were obviously cobbled together at the last moment from parts and technology from other mods.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

LOL, Thanks. I've seen the same kind of situation with previous mods that got delayed. Some were delivered, some were obviously cobbled together at the last moment from parts and technology from other mods.

Yea I am getting flashbacks.... All over again.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

Yea I am getting flashbacks.... All over again.

It's deja vu all over again as Yogi Berra would've said lmao

Cheers,
Steve

 

[f1r3b1rd]

It's deja vu all over again as Yogi Berra would've said lmao

Cheers,
Steve

Pretty much. Learned my lesson, always listen to @Zamazam